Blink causes you to go to and from the Ethereal plane a bunch of times. Does this planar travel provoke opportunity attacks? Normally general opportunity attacks? In any situation ever from other features?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
As I have said in the other thread that spawned this, (and in the new one by BeyondMisty), I consider plane shifting to be teleportation (just a version of it that allows for destinations beyond the current plane). Under that ruling, Blink would:
Never trigger an opportunity attack (either going or coming, due to the teleportation exemption from OA's)
Never trigger on a general reaction made when a creature leaves your reach (because general reactions happen after their triggers unless otherwise stated; OA's, Shield, and Counterspell are the only ones I know of that occur before or during their triggers). If a reaction occurs after it's trigger, then the plane shifted (or teleported) creature is no longer there to be affected by the reaction
Would trigger on a reaction made when the creature arrives or enters your reach (same as #2, but the creature would be present to be targeted by the reaction)
Blink would be utterly useless if it provoked opportunity attacks. It is a defensive spell designed to reduce attacks made against you and keep you safe for a round.
Anyway, as icon advised: it's a teleportation effect which doesn't provoke an opportunity attack. Even if you don't consider it teleportation, it still doesn't provoke one because to provoke one you must leave the threat range of an enemy using your movement, and Blink doesn't use your movement.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
As I have said in the other thread that spawned this, (and in the new one by BeyondMisty), I consider plane shifting to be teleportation (just a version of it that allows for destinations beyond the current plane).
Yeah, what's curious about Blink is I'm not so sure it is plane shifting you in the traditional sense. That's why I wanted to discuss it specifically. Blink, unlike any teleportation or plane shift spell in the game, as far as I can tell... is one of only a few that isn't conjuration. Blink is Transmutation. The magic of changing one thing into another thing. Not the magic of transporting one thing to another place.
That's odd right?
So, what does that tell us about what Blink is doing?
Well. The Ethereal Plane is unique in that it straight up overlaps right overtop the material plane entirely, in something called the Border Ethereal. This is not explicitly what Blink says it sends you to but it is what Blink describes your experience. Some Creatures exist simultaneously on both planes, like Ghosts and stuff.
Well. Like I hinted at earlier, Blink isn't the only non-conjuration spell that sends you to another plane. The other is Etherealness and the parallels here are obvious immediately.
Anyway, I know I'm pulling from past edition with what I'm saying next but, I think these spells make you become ethereal. That's why they're transmutation. They change you into an ethereal state of being. "Ethereal" was a property in older editions and in 5e they approach it as a distinct place and then mechanical phrase everything as though you go to and from it. But... here is the thing... everyone is already in the Border Ethereal they just cannot interact with it.
The reason why people can see the material Plane while in the Ethereal is because they overlap. Your character has always been on both the border ethereal and the material plane simultaneously. They're just, well, to phrase it a way... they're just operating at the frequency of the material plane and so see and interact with the material plane.
I think Blink (and Etherealness) just allow you to dial that frequency in the other direction, so you exist more strongly on the Ethereal side and less strongly on the material.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
As I have said in the other thread that spawned this, (and in the new one by BeyondMisty), I consider plane shifting to be teleportation (just a version of it that allows for destinations beyond the current plane).
Yeah, what's curious about Blink is I'm not so sure it is plane shifting you in the traditional sense. That's why I wanted to discuss it specifically. Blink, unlike any teleportation or plane shift spell in the game, as far as I can tell... is one of only a few that isn't conjuration. Blink is Transmutation. The magic of changing one thing into another thing. Not the magic of transporting one thing to another place.
That's odd right?
So, what does that tell us about what Blink is doing?
Well. The Ethereal Plane is unique in that it straight up overlaps right overtop the material plane entirely, in something called the Border Ethereal. This is not explicitly what Blink says it sends you to but it is what Blink describes your experience. Some Creatures exist simultaneously on both planes, like Ghosts and stuff.
Well. Like I hinted at earlier, Blink isn't the only non-conjuration spell that sends you to another plane. The other is Etherealness and the parallels here are obvious immediately.
Anyway, I know I'm pulling from past edition with what I'm saying next but, I think these spells make you become ethereal. That's why they're transmutation. They change you into an ethereal state of being. "Ethereal" was a property in older editions and in 5e they approach it as a distinct place and then mechanical phrase everything as though you go to and from it. But... here is the thing... everyone is already in the Border Ethereal they just cannot interact with it.
The reason why people can see the material Plane while in the Ethereal is because they overlap. Your character has always been on both the border ethereal and the material plane simultaneously. They're just, well, to phrase it a way... they're just operating at the frequency of the material plane and so see and interact with the material plane.
I think Blink (and Etherealness) just allow you to dial that frequency in the other direction, so you exist more strongly on the Ethereal side and less strongly on the material.
This is all a mess of narrative vs RAW though.
Following your interpretation, if it's transmuting your form from a material to an ethereal state, then it's not teleportation or movement, so it wouldn't trigger any movement based reaction or effect by itself (including BB, though it might if you were able to somehow move in the ethereal after you arrived, which the spell would not allow for outside of reactions). It also, as a side effect, would be impossible to be used by creatures with the immutable form attribute, if any were able to cast the spell.
While I can certainly understand the line of thinking, the spell is written using similar language as any plane shift type spell, so without the meta-knowledge of earlier editions and a close look at the school, the common english would infer transport similar to those spells rather than transformation. Again I do think it's a reasonable approach and can be backed up by your evidence regarding spell schools, but it does show a disconnect between the spell school and the actual language used in the description.
Going back and forth with the Ethereal Plane doesn't necessarily imply movement at all; you're standing in the same location in the Ethereal and on the Material when you phase back and forth, the two planes share geography, architecture, creatures, etc.
However, Blinkalso lets you move 10 feet every time you come back, and that movement is movement. I'm not sure I agree with the others who have opined that plane shifting is necessarily teleportation, so I'm not sure I would treat that movement as an OA-immune teleport movement RAW... but RAI, it certainly makes sense not to trigger OAs for it. Creatures that appear in a space because of planar travel and creatures that appear in a space because of teleportation would seem to an outside observer to be doing pretty much the same thing, and considering that one can sometimes change planes with teleportation... yeah, probably easiest just to call plane shifting effects "close enough to teleportation to be treated like teleportation for purpose of OAs."
TLDR: Plane shifting back and forth between material and ethereal in same space is not movement, but moving 10 feet is moving 10 feet, and is kinda-teleportation.
I think there has been more than enough discussion showing that the rules are really blurry about how non-euclidian movement is interacted with. I would say it doesn't provoke opportunity attacks.
Going back and forth with the Ethereal Plane doesn't necessarily imply movement at all; you're standing in the same location in the Ethereal and on the Material when you phase back and forth, the two planes share geography, architecture, creatures, etc.
However, Blinkalso lets you move 10 feet every time you come back, and that movement is movement. I'm not sure I agree with the others who have opined that plane shifting is necessarily teleportation, so I'm not sure I would treat that movement as an OA-immune teleport movement RAW... but RAI, it certainly makes sense not to trigger OAs for it. Creatures that appear in a space because of planar travel and creatures that appear in a space because of teleportation would seem to an outside observer to be doing pretty much the same thing, and considering that one can sometimes change planes with teleportation... yeah, probably easiest just to call plane shifting effects "close enough to teleportation to be treated like teleportation for purpose of OAs."
TLDR: Plane shifting back and forth between material and ethereal in same space is not movement, but moving 10 feet is moving 10 feet, and is kinda-teleportation.
Except it's not movement. You don't move 10 ft. You appear 10 ft away. This is an effect of the spell and does not use any of your movement - so it doesn't trigger opportunity attacks, regardless of whether you consider teleportation or not.
Talking about plane shifting/teleporting is utterly pointless - it isn't using your movement so it doesn't trigger opportunity attacks.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Lots of stuff doesn't use up your movement, even if it references the distance you can travel through mentioning your speed. That's a poor argument.
This doesn't mention your speed, to be clear and doesn't say you move. You simply "appear" in the place of choice. That is not movement.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
And you "return" to a space, not "appear" in it. You only "appear" somewhere if you try to end up in a blocked space.
And it doesn't mention speed. Or mention movement. So I'm not sure what you're talking about there?
As for the second line: you are wrong.
At the start of your next turn, and when the spell ends if you are on the Ethereal Plane, you return to an unoccupied space of your choice that you can see within 10 feet of the space you vanished from. If no unoccupied space is available within that range, you appear in the nearest unoccupied space (chosen at random if more than one space is equally near).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
So, what does that tell us about what Blink is doing?
Absolutely nothing. What it tells us, as many spells do, is that WOTC is far too lazy to put in even a token effort at consistently assigning spell schools.
And you "return" to a space, not "appear" in it. You only "appear" somewhere if you try to end up in a blocked space.
And it doesn't mention speed. Or mention movement. So I'm not sure what you're talking about there?
As for the second line: you are wrong.
At the start of your next turn, and when the spell ends if you are on the Ethereal Plane, you return to an unoccupied space of your choice that you can see within 10 feet of the space you vanished from. If no unoccupied space is available within that range, you appear in the nearest unoccupied space (chosen at random if more than one space is equally near).
Read the part you highlighted.
you return to an unoccupied space of your choice that you can see within 10 feet of the space you vanished from.
It might be easy enough to say "appear" is teleportation or not moving or whatever, but "returning" is a lot more ambiguous, especially when it is on your turn and you aren't returning to the position you've left, but the spell you've used doesn't even say whether or not it uses resources or teleports you or moves you or anything else.
The return means to the material plane, how is that not obvious to you? Do you think you're stuck on Ethereal Plane for the whole spell? What?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Lots of stuff doesn't use up your movement, even if it references the distance you can travel through mentioning your speed. That's a poor argument.
Can you provide an example of an ability that isn't movement that does reference your movement speed? Or is this just a hypothetical philosophical position?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
It might be easy enough to say "appear" is teleportation or not moving or whatever, but "returning" is a lot more ambiguous, especially when it is on your turn and you aren't returning to the position you've left, but the spell you've used doesn't even say whether or not it uses resources or teleports you or moves you or anything else.
This spell isn't clear enough on how that returning works. That's what I'm saying. Of course you return to the material plane. But you don't just appear, you "return" up to 10' from where you started. It could reasonably be interpreted that this costs part of your speed, and even if it doesn't, that it still counts as movement (though for what reason, I have no idea). There are spells that don't tell you that what they provide still costs movement, like jump.
It also doesn't use any word for teleportation at all.
Lots of stuff doesn't use up your movement, even if it references the distance you can travel through mentioning your speed. That's a poor argument.
Can you provide an example of an ability that isn't movement that does reference your movement speed? Or is this just a hypothetical philosophical position?
Sure. Orc’s Aggressive doesn’t use up your turns movement, even though it references speed. Or, Dissonant Whispers, which isn’t even on your own turn!. I mean, WE think those are movement, but since they aren’t PHB Chapter 9 ‘movement on your turn’ stuff, but rather other actions that move you X, your camp has gone back and forth on whether you agree those are called “movement.” The fact that Aggressive references speed, a Scouts reaction is half speed, or a tempest sorcerer references a flat 10 feet is irrelevent to whether these actions are/aren’t as a class something y’all should be recognizing as “movement.” They all move you some distance with an action, but none of them effect the distance you can otherwise move with “your movement” on your turn.
Just play the last two weeks of discussion over again on repeat 😂
Lots of stuff doesn't use up your movement, even if it references the distance you can travel through mentioning your speed. That's a poor argument.
Can you provide an example of an ability that isn't movement that does reference your movement speed? Or is this just a hypothetical philosophical position?
Standing up from prone isn't movement in the usual sense (in fact, the prone condition itself calls out getting up from prone as not being a movement option), but it references your speed and costs an amount of movement (which is relative to your speed, hence speed being directly mentioned in the rules for standing up). Likewise, dropping prone mentions your speed (to tell you you don't use any of it, treating "speed" and "amount of movement" as apparently equivalent, despite them being distinct elsewhere in the rules). Whether or not dropping prone or standing up from prone constitute having "moved" can get pretty involved, especially for creatures for whom it's challenging to define prone to begin with, like a flying sword, depending on what other rule is asking if the creature moved or not. One of the bigger headaches here is that it makes no sense whatsoever declaring one of the two to be movement and the other not to be movement.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Blink causes you to go to and from the Ethereal plane a bunch of times. Does this planar travel provoke opportunity attacks? Normally general opportunity attacks? In any situation ever from other features?
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
As I have said in the other thread that spawned this, (and in the new one by BeyondMisty), I consider plane shifting to be teleportation (just a version of it that allows for destinations beyond the current plane). Under that ruling, Blink would:
Blink would be utterly useless if it provoked opportunity attacks. It is a defensive spell designed to reduce attacks made against you and keep you safe for a round.
Anyway, as icon advised: it's a teleportation effect which doesn't provoke an opportunity attack. Even if you don't consider it teleportation, it still doesn't provoke one because to provoke one you must leave the threat range of an enemy using your movement, and Blink doesn't use your movement.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Yeah, what's curious about Blink is I'm not so sure it is plane shifting you in the traditional sense. That's why I wanted to discuss it specifically. Blink, unlike any teleportation or plane shift spell in the game, as far as I can tell... is one of only a few that isn't conjuration. Blink is Transmutation. The magic of changing one thing into another thing. Not the magic of transporting one thing to another place.
That's odd right?
So, what does that tell us about what Blink is doing?
Well. The Ethereal Plane is unique in that it straight up overlaps right overtop the material plane entirely, in something called the Border Ethereal. This is not explicitly what Blink says it sends you to but it is what Blink describes your experience. Some Creatures exist simultaneously on both planes, like Ghosts and stuff.
Well. Like I hinted at earlier, Blink isn't the only non-conjuration spell that sends you to another plane. The other is Etherealness and the parallels here are obvious immediately.
Anyway, I know I'm pulling from past edition with what I'm saying next but, I think these spells make you become ethereal. That's why they're transmutation. They change you into an ethereal state of being. "Ethereal" was a property in older editions and in 5e they approach it as a distinct place and then mechanical phrase everything as though you go to and from it. But... here is the thing... everyone is already in the Border Ethereal they just cannot interact with it.
The reason why people can see the material Plane while in the Ethereal is because they overlap. Your character has always been on both the border ethereal and the material plane simultaneously. They're just, well, to phrase it a way... they're just operating at the frequency of the material plane and so see and interact with the material plane.
I think Blink (and Etherealness) just allow you to dial that frequency in the other direction, so you exist more strongly on the Ethereal side and less strongly on the material.
This is all a mess of narrative vs RAW though.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Following your interpretation, if it's transmuting your form from a material to an ethereal state, then it's not teleportation or movement, so it wouldn't trigger any movement based reaction or effect by itself (including BB, though it might if you were able to somehow move in the ethereal after you arrived, which the spell would not allow for outside of reactions). It also, as a side effect, would be impossible to be used by creatures with the immutable form attribute, if any were able to cast the spell.
While I can certainly understand the line of thinking, the spell is written using similar language as any plane shift type spell, so without the meta-knowledge of earlier editions and a close look at the school, the common english would infer transport similar to those spells rather than transformation. Again I do think it's a reasonable approach and can be backed up by your evidence regarding spell schools, but it does show a disconnect between the spell school and the actual language used in the description.
Blink doesn't provoke Opportunity Attack because it moves you without using your movement, action, or reaction.
Going back and forth with the Ethereal Plane doesn't necessarily imply movement at all; you're standing in the same location in the Ethereal and on the Material when you phase back and forth, the two planes share geography, architecture, creatures, etc.
However, Blink also lets you move 10 feet every time you come back, and that movement is movement. I'm not sure I agree with the others who have opined that plane shifting is necessarily teleportation, so I'm not sure I would treat that movement as an OA-immune teleport movement RAW... but RAI, it certainly makes sense not to trigger OAs for it. Creatures that appear in a space because of planar travel and creatures that appear in a space because of teleportation would seem to an outside observer to be doing pretty much the same thing, and considering that one can sometimes change planes with teleportation... yeah, probably easiest just to call plane shifting effects "close enough to teleportation to be treated like teleportation for purpose of OAs."
TLDR: Plane shifting back and forth between material and ethereal in same space is not movement, but moving 10 feet is moving 10 feet, and is kinda-teleportation.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I think there has been more than enough discussion showing that the rules are really blurry about how non-euclidian movement is interacted with. I would say it doesn't provoke opportunity attacks.
Except it's not movement. You don't move 10 ft. You appear 10 ft away. This is an effect of the spell and does not use any of your movement - so it doesn't trigger opportunity attacks, regardless of whether you consider teleportation or not.
Talking about plane shifting/teleporting is utterly pointless - it isn't using your movement so it doesn't trigger opportunity attacks.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Lots of stuff doesn't use up your movement, even if it references the distance you can travel through mentioning your speed. That's a poor argument.
This doesn't mention your speed, to be clear and doesn't say you move. You simply "appear" in the place of choice. That is not movement.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Mentioning your speed isn't using it.
And you "return" to a space, not "appear" in it. You only "appear" somewhere if you try to end up in a blocked space.
And it doesn't mention speed. Or mention movement. So I'm not sure what you're talking about there?
As for the second line: you are wrong.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Absolutely nothing. What it tells us, as many spells do, is that WOTC is far too lazy to put in even a token effort at consistently assigning spell schools.
Read the part you highlighted.
you return to an unoccupied space of your choice that you can see within 10 feet of the space you vanished from.
It might be easy enough to say "appear" is teleportation or not moving or whatever, but "returning" is a lot more ambiguous, especially when it is on your turn and you aren't returning to the position you've left, but the spell you've used doesn't even say whether or not it uses resources or teleports you or moves you or anything else.
The return means to the material plane, how is that not obvious to you? Do you think you're stuck on Ethereal Plane for the whole spell? What?
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Can you provide an example of an ability that isn't movement that does reference your movement speed? Or is this just a hypothetical philosophical position?
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
This spell isn't clear enough on how that returning works. That's what I'm saying. Of course you return to the material plane. But you don't just appear, you "return" up to 10' from where you started. It could reasonably be interpreted that this costs part of your speed, and even if it doesn't, that it still counts as movement (though for what reason, I have no idea). There are spells that don't tell you that what they provide still costs movement, like jump.
It also doesn't use any word for teleportation at all.
Sure. Orc’s Aggressive doesn’t use up your turns movement, even though it references speed. Or, Dissonant Whispers, which isn’t even on your own turn!. I mean, WE think those are movement, but since they aren’t PHB Chapter 9 ‘movement on your turn’ stuff, but rather other actions that move you X, your camp has gone back and forth on whether you agree those are called “movement.” The fact that Aggressive references speed, a Scouts reaction is half speed, or a tempest sorcerer references a flat 10 feet is irrelevent to whether these actions are/aren’t as a class something y’all should be recognizing as “movement.” They all move you some distance with an action, but none of them effect the distance you can otherwise move with “your movement” on your turn.
Just play the last two weeks of discussion over again on repeat 😂
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Standing up from prone isn't movement in the usual sense (in fact, the prone condition itself calls out getting up from prone as not being a movement option), but it references your speed and costs an amount of movement (which is relative to your speed, hence speed being directly mentioned in the rules for standing up). Likewise, dropping prone mentions your speed (to tell you you don't use any of it, treating "speed" and "amount of movement" as apparently equivalent, despite them being distinct elsewhere in the rules). Whether or not dropping prone or standing up from prone constitute having "moved" can get pretty involved, especially for creatures for whom it's challenging to define prone to begin with, like a flying sword, depending on what other rule is asking if the creature moved or not. One of the bigger headaches here is that it makes no sense whatsoever declaring one of the two to be movement and the other not to be movement.