If shackles on your feet prevent you from running, should they prevent someone else from running? Someone bound by Dimensional Shackles would not teleport as a result of the Teleport spell, but the spell itself would still function.
This is a pretty bad analogy because the others aren't running. They are passively sitting there while the caster does all the work. From the two interpretations, closer analogies would be
The others are in a cart and the caster is pulling them. If the caster doesn't go, neither do they.
The others are in a cart with the caster and the caster enchants the cart to move on its own. The the caster falls off because he's anchored to the ground but the cart keeps going.
Maybe it's just because I'm a programmer, but that and in "you and eight others" holds a lot of weight for me. If the first part of an and statement fails, the whole thing fails full stop. Between that and the fact that I just think its more interesting for the shackles to prevent the spell from working, I lean towards scenario #1.
As for what OP is trying to do in the first place, just let it work however the #%$ you want. NPCs are not beholden to the PC spell list and thus are not bound in any way to spell descriptions or magic item descriptions. You can say it's a totally different spell or attribute it to special training or an embedded enchantment in the building or some special item they have or you can just say it works and not justify it at all.
If shackles on your feet prevent you from running, should they prevent someone else from running? Someone bound by Dimensional Shackles would not teleport as a result of the Teleport spell, but the spell itself would still function.
This is a pretty bad analogy because the others aren't running. They are passively sitting there while the caster does all the work. From the two interpretations, closer analogies would be
The others are in a cart and the caster is pulling them. If the caster doesn't go, neither do they.
The others are in a cart with the caster and the caster enchants the cart to move on its own. The the caster falls off because he's anchored to the ground but the cart keeps going.
Maybe it's just because I'm a programmer, but that and in "you and eight others" holds a lot of weight for me. If the first part of an and statement fails, the whole thing fails full stop. Between that and the fact that I just think its more interesting for the shackles to prevent the spell from working, I lean towards scenario #1.
As for what OP is trying to do in the first place, just let it work however the #%$ you want. NPCs are not beholden to the PC spell list and thus are not bound in any way to spell descriptions or magic item descriptions. You can say it's a totally different spell or attribute it to special training or an embedded enchantment in the building or some special item they have or you can just say it works and not justify it at all.
Spells affect their targets individually unless the spell says otherwise. Given that teleport is not a range: self spell, there is no reason to think the caster is a “special” target. They are a target, but the others are equal targets as well
It is at least interesting (though maybe not relevant) that some spells like bless can allow you to target yourself optionally, but apparently you are required to be targeted by a teleport.
If my PC was affected by some item that prevented the effects of bless, but he cast it on himself and 2 other allies instead, I’d have no problem ruling that the allies got the bless and the caster didn’t. For that reason, I’d probably rule that only the PC wearing the shackles fails to be teleported.
Yea I can see the spell, and thus the teleport, go off simply leaving the shackled caster behind. Of course as the caster (or his magic) isn't along to guide the jump then I'd also expect any roll to fall in the "False destination" (or possibly the "Description") heading and I'd likely require some sort of roll even if it the target was a permanent teleportation circle (regardless of spell used).
As for what OP is trying to do in the first place, just let it work however the #%$ you want. NPCs are not beholden to the PC spell list and thus are not bound in any way to spell descriptions or magic item descriptions. You can say it's a totally different spell or attribute it to special training or an embedded enchantment in the building or some special item they have or you can just say it works and not justify it at all.
Yea this is good advice, story reason can overcome pretty much any rule if the DM feels the need to.
Yea I can see the spell, and thus the teleport, go off simply leaving the shackled caster behind. Of course as the caster (or his magic) isn't along to guide the jump then I'd also expect any roll to fall in the "False destination" (or possibly the "Description") heading and I'd likely require some sort of roll even if it the target was a permanent teleportation circle (regardless of spell used).
Oh, that brings up an interesting scenario. What's preventing a shackled creature, if you allow them to use teleport on other people, from trying to send them into an active volcano or something?
The "willing" part of willing creatures is basically just blind faith that you're being sent where you want, if the caster isn't coming with you.
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Yea I can see the spell, and thus the teleport, go off simply leaving the shackled caster behind. Of course as the caster (or his magic) isn't along to guide the jump then I'd also expect any roll to fall in the "False destination" (or possibly the "Description") heading and I'd likely require some sort of roll even if it the target was a permanent teleportation circle (regardless of spell used).
Oh, that brings up an interesting scenario. What's preventing a shackled creature, if you allow them to use teleport on other people, from trying to send them into an active volcano or something?
The "willing" part of willing creatures is basically just blind faith that you're being sent where you want, if the caster isn't coming with you.
Presumably if you have shackled a creature, you are hostile to them. Would your PCs be willing to be teleported by a hostile creature? If so, then it’s wholly on them if they get sent into the volcano
A spellcaster in dimensional shackles, I would play it as the the spell starts, but the destination is not guaranteed. Using a similar metaphor as above, everyone is in the cart, then the driver/steerer of the cart suddenly gets yanked back to the starting position by a tether, the others are now on a moving cart with no driver. They may be going in the right general direction, but I would think there is a good chance that they either go off course or the spell splinters sending individuals to different nearby places.
Looking at the spell details, i would shunt the outcome down a step or two on the familiarity table, and possibly make each person teleported make individual d100 checks.
Additionally, being yanked back to the starting point does not sound comfortable and might cause one condition or another, if one of my players tried this.
This is a pretty bad analogy because the others aren't running. They are passively sitting there while the caster does all the work. From the two interpretations, closer analogies would be
Maybe it's just because I'm a programmer, but that and in "you and eight others" holds a lot of weight for me. If the first part of an and statement fails, the whole thing fails full stop. Between that and the fact that I just think its more interesting for the shackles to prevent the spell from working, I lean towards scenario #1.
As for what OP is trying to do in the first place, just let it work however the #%$ you want. NPCs are not beholden to the PC spell list and thus are not bound in any way to spell descriptions or magic item descriptions. You can say it's a totally different spell or attribute it to special training or an embedded enchantment in the building or some special item they have or you can just say it works and not justify it at all.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Spells affect their targets individually unless the spell says otherwise. Given that teleport is not a range: self spell, there is no reason to think the caster is a “special” target. They are a target, but the others are equal targets as well
It is at least interesting (though maybe not relevant) that some spells like bless can allow you to target yourself optionally, but apparently you are required to be targeted by a teleport.
If my PC was affected by some item that prevented the effects of bless, but he cast it on himself and 2 other allies instead, I’d have no problem ruling that the allies got the bless and the caster didn’t. For that reason, I’d probably rule that only the PC wearing the shackles fails to be teleported.
Yea I can see the spell, and thus the teleport, go off simply leaving the shackled caster behind. Of course as the caster (or his magic) isn't along to guide the jump then I'd also expect any roll to fall in the "False destination" (or possibly the "Description") heading and I'd likely require some sort of roll even if it the target was a permanent teleportation circle (regardless of spell used).
Yea this is good advice, story reason can overcome pretty much any rule if the DM feels the need to.
Oh, that brings up an interesting scenario. What's preventing a shackled creature, if you allow them to use teleport on other people, from trying to send them into an active volcano or something?
The "willing" part of willing creatures is basically just blind faith that you're being sent where you want, if the caster isn't coming with you.
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Presumably if you have shackled a creature, you are hostile to them. Would your PCs be willing to be teleported by a hostile creature? If so, then it’s wholly on them if they get sent into the volcano
A spellcaster in dimensional shackles, I would play it as the the spell starts, but the destination is not guaranteed. Using a similar metaphor as above, everyone is in the cart, then the driver/steerer of the cart suddenly gets yanked back to the starting position by a tether, the others are now on a moving cart with no driver. They may be going in the right general direction, but I would think there is a good chance that they either go off course or the spell splinters sending individuals to different nearby places.
Looking at the spell details, i would shunt the outcome down a step or two on the familiarity table, and possibly make each person teleported make individual d100 checks.
Additionally, being yanked back to the starting point does not sound comfortable and might cause one condition or another, if one of my players tried this.