In one of my Campaign we came across a spell scroll of teleportation and we have a level 11sorc/4bard. If he were to try and cast the Teleport scroll would he need to make an ability check or not? He has a 7th lvl spell slot but doesnt have access to any actual 7th lvl spells.
If the spell is on your class’s spell list but of a higher level than you can normally cast.
So "a higher level than you can normally cast" does that mean spell slot or spell level access?
In one of my Campaign we came across a spell scroll of teleportation and we have a level 11sorc/4bard. If he were to try and cast the Teleport scroll would he need to make an ability check or not? He has a 7th lvl spell slot but doesnt have access to any actual 7th lvl spells.
If the spell is on your class’s spell list but of a higher level than you can normally cast.
So "a higher level than you can normally cast" does that mean spell slot or spell level access?
Spell Level access. Slots are basically magic juice. Since hes a 15th level caster with access to spells only his 11th level sorcerer level, he has more magic juice than knowledge.
I'm going to say that, if you have the slots for it, then that means it is of a "Level you can normally cast", considering how multiclassing works... whereas if it was meant to be limited by spells known it would be worded "If the spell is on your class's spell list, but of a higher level than your available Spells Known or Prepared".
Since Teleport is a 7th level spell, in order to know if your character must make an ability check to determine whether you cast it successfully or not, you have to ask yourself this;
Can your character cast 7th level spell or is it higher level than you can normally cast? It's the latter so your character must make an ability check.
Your 11th level Sorceror/4th bard must roll to cast it. Though truth be told some my current DM does not make you roll. Scrolls are incredibly expensive using RAW rules and it is not really fair to make you pay that much if they can fail.
A related, harder question is this:
Can a 20th level Warlock read a scroll of the 9th level spell Imprisonment without rolling a check?
It is on his list, but he can only cast spells of 5th level. Everything else is a Mystic Arcanum.
Does it matter if he has the Mystic Arcanum for Imprisonment?
I'm going to say that, if you have the slots for it, then that means it is of a "Level you can normally cast", considering how multiclassing works... whereas if it was meant to be limited by spells known it would be worded "If the spell is on your class's spell list, but of a higher level than your available Spells Known or Prepared".
Your 11th level Sorceror/4th bard must roll to cast it. Though truth be told some my current DM does not make you roll. Scrolls are incredibly expensive using RAW rules and it is not really fair to make you pay that much if they can fail.
A related, harder question is this:
Can a 20th level Warlock read a scroll of the 9th level spell Imprisonment without rolling a check?
It is on his list, but he can only cast spells of 5th level. Everything else is a Mystic Arcanum.
Does it matter if he has the Mystic Arcanum for Imprisonment?
If the spell is on your class's spell list but of a higher level than you can normally cast, you must make an ability check using your spellcasting ability to determine whether you cast it successfully.
You can cast your arcanum spell once without expending a spell slot. You must finish a long rest before you can do so again.
The question is, does a Mystic Arcanum, cast without expending a spell slot, count as a spell that is of "level that you can normally cast". Note they do not ever use spell slots.
As a DM I would rule that you can normallty cast it, even though you are not using a spell slot at all. But I am not sure if that as a house rule or RAW. It is probably RAI.
Mog, you’re overthinking it. Can an 11th level Warlock cast a 6th-level spell? Then they can use a 6th-level spell scroll. They don’t mean “a level you can cast ‘normally,’” they mean “a level you can normally cast.” Get it?
I'll second that it is based on spell slots instead of spells known. The fact that you can cast a spell as a level 7, even if you don't know any level 7 spells, means that you can cast it without the check.
What if a Sorcerer on leveling up to 13 didn't find any 7th level spells he really felt fit his build and chose another level 6 to learn. He now cannot cast any 7th level spells, but no DM would tell him he can't use a 7th level spell scroll without a check. It has to be based on spell slots available, as you have, as Spideycloned said, the "magic juice" to harness this spell.
That sorcerer can indeed cast 7th-level spells. Whenever they use their 7th-level spell slot to cast any spell, that spell is cast as a 7th-level spell automatically.
When a spellcaster casts a spell using a slot that is of a higher level than the spell, the spell assumes the higher level for that casting. For instance, if Umara casts magic missile using one of her 2nd-level slots, that magic missile is 2nd level.
Effectively, the spell expands to fill the slot it is put into.
Some spells, such as magic missile and cure wounds, have more powerful effects when cast at a higher level, as detailed in a spell's description.
As another example of IamSposta being correct: this character.
Statline: Str 13 Dex 13 Int 13 Wis 13 Cha 13
Races: Tasha's Custom Lineage; Feat: Fey Touched
Class levels: Artificer 1/Bard 1/Cleric 1/Druid 1/Fighter 3(Eldritch Knight)/Paladin 2/Ranger 2/Rogue 3 (Arcane Trickster)/Sorcerer 1/Warlock 1/Wizard 1 (character level 17, spell slots as if a pure caster of level 10 + an L1 Warlock slot)
This character can cast Misty Step, a base 2nd level spell, using a 5th level spell slot, despite only being able to know/prepare level 1 spells. Its actual level when cast will match the slot used - and under no circumstances will it count as a level 1 spell.
If you raised the character to Warlock 3 (character level 19), they'd also be able to cast Misty Step with their L2 Warlock slots. If you went to e.g. Bard 2, you'd add an L6 spell slot which would cast Misty Step as an L6 spell.
Which I already stated, because Spell Slot level = Spell Level (just not necessarily the level of Spells Known).
PS- A Sorcerer 11/Bard 4 can cast 8th-level spells.
He can cast 6th level spells. But he can use an 8th level slot to do it.
He cannot cast Demiplane, Sunburst, etc.
This wording is extremely relevant for spells like Globe of Invunerability, which ignores the spell slot used, goes just by the base spell level.
According to RAW, if a 6th-level spell is cast using an 8th-level spell slot it becomes an 8th-level spell, which is important for spells like counterspell and dispel magic, as well as any spell cast from a spell scroll (which is what we’re discussing, not Globe of Invulnerability).
When a spellcaster casts a spell using a slot that is of a higher level than the spell, the spell assumes the higher level for that casting. For instance, if Umara casts magic missile using one of her 2nd-level slots, that magic missile is 2nd level.
Effectively, the spell expands to fill the slot it is put into.
Some spells, such as magic missile and cure wounds, have more powerful effects when cast at a higher level, as detailed in a spell's description.
So I repeat, a Sorcerer 11/Bard 4 can cast spells at 8th-level.
Mog, the description for globe of invulnerability includes a specific caveat regarding spells cast at a higher level. That’s a case of “Specific Beats General.” The description for a spell scroll includes no such caveat, and so it follows the standard general rules for “Spellcasting.” Those General rules include the rules for “Spell Level,” which include the rules for “Casting a Spell at a Higher Level.” So those are the general rules one needs to use when determining at what level a character can normally cast a spell. Make sense?
Can your character cast 7th level spell or is it higher level than you can normally cast? It's the latter so your character must make an ability check.
I believe it is the former.
If you upcast a level 5 spell and cast it with a level 7 slot then it is considered a level 7 spell. So, this character can cast level 7 spells. They just don't have any level 7 spells prepared or known.
Can your character cast 7th level spell or is it higher level than you can normally cast? It's the latter so your character must make an ability check.
I believe it is the former.
If you upcast a level 5 spell and cast it with a level 7 slot then it is considered a level 7 spell. So, this character can cast level 7 spells. They just don't have any level 7 spells prepared or known.
Yeah former due to upcast
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In one of my Campaign we came across a spell scroll of teleportation and we have a level 11sorc/4bard. If he were to try and cast the Teleport scroll would he need to make an ability check or not? He has a 7th lvl spell slot but doesnt have access to any actual 7th lvl spells.
So "a higher level than you can normally cast" does that mean spell slot or spell level access?
Spell Level access. Slots are basically magic juice. Since hes a 15th level caster with access to spells only his 11th level sorcerer level, he has more magic juice than knowledge.
I'm going to say that, if you have the slots for it, then that means it is of a "Level you can normally cast", considering how multiclassing works... whereas if it was meant to be limited by spells known it would be worded "If the spell is on your class's spell list, but of a higher level than your available Spells Known or Prepared".
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Since Teleport is a 7th level spell, in order to know if your character must make an ability check to determine whether you cast it successfully or not, you have to ask yourself this;
Can your character cast 7th level spell or is it higher level than you can normally cast?
It's the latter so your character must make an ability check.Your 11th level Sorceror/4th bard must roll to cast it. Though truth be told some my current DM does not make you roll. Scrolls are incredibly expensive using RAW rules and it is not really fair to make you pay that much if they can fail.
A related, harder question is this:
Can a 20th level Warlock read a scroll of the 9th level spell Imprisonment without rolling a check?
It is on his list, but he can only cast spells of 5th level. Everything else is a Mystic Arcanum.
Does it matter if he has the Mystic Arcanum for Imprisonment?
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Mystic Arcana are spells.
But do they count as:
VS.
The question is, does a Mystic Arcanum, cast without expending a spell slot, count as a spell that is of "level that you can normally cast". Note they do not ever use spell slots.
As a DM I would rule that you can normallty cast it, even though you are not using a spell slot at all. But I am not sure if that as a house rule or RAW. It is probably RAI.
Mog, you’re overthinking it. Can an 11th level Warlock cast a 6th-level spell? Then they can use a 6th-level spell scroll. They don’t mean “a level you can cast ‘normally,’” they mean “a level you can normally cast.” Get it?
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It's not based on known spell but on the level you can cast them. A L13 Sorcerer can cast 7th-level spells since he has slot for it.
So when a character find a spell scroll just ask;
Is it on its spell list?
Yes - it can cast it.
No - it cannot cast it
If it can cast it, is it of a level it can cast?
Yes - no ability check required.
No - ability check is required.
That sorcerer can indeed cast 7th-level spells. Whenever they use their 7th-level spell slot to cast any spell, that spell is cast as a 7th-level spell automatically.
That’s important for spells like counterspell and dispel magic.
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As another example of IamSposta being correct: this character.
Statline: Str 13 Dex 13 Int 13 Wis 13 Cha 13
Races: Tasha's Custom Lineage; Feat: Fey Touched
Class levels: Artificer 1/Bard 1/Cleric 1/Druid 1/Fighter 3(Eldritch Knight)/Paladin 2/Ranger 2/Rogue 3 (Arcane Trickster)/Sorcerer 1/Warlock 1/Wizard 1 (character level 17, spell slots as if a pure caster of level 10 + an L1 Warlock slot)
This character can cast Misty Step, a base 2nd level spell, using a 5th level spell slot, despite only being able to know/prepare level 1 spells. Its actual level when cast will match the slot used - and under no circumstances will it count as a level 1 spell.
If you raised the character to Warlock 3 (character level 19), they'd also be able to cast Misty Step with their L2 Warlock slots. If you went to e.g. Bard 2, you'd add an L6 spell slot which would cast Misty Step as an L6 spell.
Which I already stated, because Spell Slot level = Spell Level (just not necessarily the level of Spells Known).
PS- A Sorcerer 11/Bard 4 can cast 8th-level spells.
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He can cast 6th level spells. But he can use an 8th level slot to do it.
He cannot cast Demiplane, Sunburst, etc.
This wording is extremely relevant for spells like Globe of Invunerability, which ignores the spell slot used, goes just by the base spell level.
According to RAW, if a 6th-level spell is cast using an 8th-level spell slot it becomes an 8th-level spell, which is important for spells like counterspell and dispel magic, as well as any spell cast from a spell scroll (which is what we’re discussing, not Globe of Invulnerability).
So I repeat, a Sorcerer 11/Bard 4 can cast spells at 8th-level.
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Mog, the description for globe of invulnerability includes a specific caveat regarding spells cast at a higher level. That’s a case of “Specific Beats General.” The description for a spell scroll includes no such caveat, and so it follows the standard general rules for “Spellcasting.” Those General rules include the rules for “Spell Level,” which include the rules for “Casting a Spell at a Higher Level.” So those are the general rules one needs to use when determining at what level a character can normally cast a spell. Make sense?
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I believe it is the former.
If you upcast a level 5 spell and cast it with a level 7 slot then it is considered a level 7 spell. So, this character can cast level 7 spells. They just don't have any level 7 spells prepared or known.
Yeah former due to upcast