Are there any abilities/spells that cause disadvantage on saving throws?
As a fairly new player of D&D, I wanted to understand of nuances of the rules before delving into any homebrew or DM roles. I only know a handful of rare circumstances that impose disadvantage on saving throws, like the second effect of Heart Weaver's Primer. Are they rare because it's meant to be an exceptionally powerful debuff?
Examples, rulings, or advice would be greatly appreciated.
The Instruments of the Bards give it on a subset of enchantment spells, which all use Wisdom saving throws as far as I know. A creature has disadvantage on Dexterity saving throws if it's restrained. That's all the ones I know about. It's pretty rare.
Bestow Curse can cause disadvantage to any single ability score.
That's pretty helpful! Gives quite a bit of context for how powerful a similar ability/spell should be.
My main goal was to create a Blood Hunter "Blood Curse of Intoxication" and possibly have it give disadvantage on a choice of DEX or WIS saving throws. But that requires further research into effects and balancing.
Sorcerers have a Metamagic "Heightened Spell" which gives 1 target disadvantage on its first saving throw against the spell you heightened. The Shadow Sorcerer has an ability which uses sorcery points called "Hound of Ill Omen" which gives the target disadvantage on saving throws against any spell you cast while the hound is within 5 ft of it.
Silvery barbs pulls a lot of weight as a spell that not only inflicts disadvantage on an attack, check, or save AFTER seeing the result, but also gives you or an ally advantage on their next attack, check, or save. It is basically a stronger heightened spell metamagic with appropriately higher cost (but available to more classes at a lower level).
The Arcane Trickster Rogue 9th-level feature "Magical Ambush" gives targets disadvantage on your spell's saving throws when you are hidden from them. It's fun :)
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Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
The Arcane Trickster Rogue 9th-level feature "Magical Ambush" gives targets disadvantage on your spell's saving throws when you are hidden from them. It's fun :)
It should be noted that this feature is balanced out by arcane tricksters being 1/3 casters and generally having relatively low spellcasting modifiers.
The Arcane Trickster Rogue 9th-level feature "Magical Ambush" gives targets disadvantage on your spell's saving throws when you are hidden from them. It's fun :)
It should be noted that this feature is balanced out by arcane tricksters being 1/3 casters and generally having relatively low spellcasting modifiers.
Plus you need 9 levels of Rogue to get it, and most of your leveled spells need to be illusion/enchantment. Though at that point you have access to 2nd-level spells, which is where most of the good illusion & enchantment options live anyway.
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Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
3 levels of exhaustion does it too. And while not exactly what was asked, note that paralyzed, petrified, stunned, and unconscious conditions cause you to automatically fail STR/DEX saves
The Arcane Trickster Rogue 9th-level feature "Magical Ambush" gives targets disadvantage on your spell's saving throws when you are hidden from them. It's fun :)
It should be noted that this feature is balanced out by arcane tricksters being 1/3 casters and generally having relatively low spellcasting modifiers.
Page 205 PHB, "The DC to resist one of your spells equals 8 +your spellcasting ability modifier + your proficiency bonus + any special modifiers."
Since DC and Spell Attack Bonus have nothing to do with whether you are a 1/4, 1/3, 1/2, 3/4 or full caster, please ignore Lunali's erroneous statement above. You can only be a few levels of caster and 12 levels of non cater and still have a powerful DC/SAB. Since most Rogues and Fighters who choose the magic casting subclass, most have their ability score for casting as high as their primary physical ability, and if they don't why are you bothering to take the magical subclass?
so a Fighter/Rogue PC of 12th level (varying classes) and a minimal casting ability score of 16 would be 8+3+4+1(lowest numerical aid by this level) = 16. and has nothing to do with caster level or style of caster!
For a properly built Arcane Trickster, who has an 18 INT by the time they get this 9th level ability, it is quite devastating, if the look on many DM faces is anything to go by!
The Arcane Trickster Rogue 9th-level feature "Magical Ambush" gives targets disadvantage on your spell's saving throws when you are hidden from them. It's fun :)
It should be noted that this feature is balanced out by arcane tricksters being 1/3 casters and generally having relatively low spellcasting modifiers.
Plus you need 9 levels of Rogue to get it, and most of your leveled spells need to be illusion/enchantment. Though at that point you have access to 2nd-level spells, which is where most of the good illusion & enchantment options live anyway.
Works best for a Arcane Trickster rogue multiclassed with at least one level of wizard/warlock/sorcerer with a Staff of the Magi :)
The Arcane Trickster Rogue 9th-level feature "Magical Ambush" gives targets disadvantage on your spell's saving throws when you are hidden from them. It's fun :)
It should be noted that this feature is balanced out by arcane tricksters being 1/3 casters and generally having relatively low spellcasting modifiers.
Page 205 PHB, "The DC to resist one of your spells equals 8 +your spellcasting ability modifier + your proficiency bonus + any special modifiers."
Since DC and Spell Attack Bonus have nothing to do with whether you are a 1/4, 1/3, 1/2, 3/4 or full caster, please ignore Lunali's erroneous statement above.
For a properly built Arcane Trickster, this 9th level ability is quite devastating, if the look on many DM faces is anything to go by!
Lunali's statement is not erroneous. I think you may have just misunderstood it. Most rogues focus on DEX first as their primary stat. INT is usually not as high for a rogue as a pure wizard who raises INT first.
As a result, the typical DCs for an Arcane Trickster rogue tend to be lower since they often have other aspects of their character stats to focus on first. Not necessarily, but frequently. Using point buy for example and starting with 16 dex, making int 16 also, means that secondary stats like wisdom (for perception and finding traps/secret doors) or con for saves and hit points will tend to be lower. So rogues often have stats that are more spread out. The first two ASIs will often be spent getting dex to 20. The rogue might also want other feats rather than increasing int. Even starting 16, 16 and spending ASIs only to increase dex and int, the rogue will have the same DC as the wizard at level 12 (since they get an extra ASI at 10).
If the rogue spends ASIs on other things it takes even longer.
Basically, if you build around the level 9 ability and max int it can be a very impressive ability but it requires choices earlier on (or a very good dice roll for stats) to obtain the same DC as a wizard by the time the character reaches level 12.
The Arcane Trickster Rogue 9th-level feature "Magical Ambush" gives targets disadvantage on your spell's saving throws when you are hidden from them. It's fun :)
It should be noted that this feature is balanced out by arcane tricksters being 1/3 casters and generally having relatively low spellcasting modifiers.
Page 205 PHB, "The DC to resist one of your spells equals 8 +your spellcasting ability modifier + your proficiency bonus + any special modifiers."
Since DC and Spell Attack Bonus have nothing to do with whether you are a 1/4, 1/3, 1/2, 3/4 or full caster, please ignore Lunali's erroneous statement above.
For a properly built Arcane Trickster, this 9th level ability is quite devastating, if the look on many DM faces is anything to go by!
Lunali's statement is technically not incorrect and telling people to ignore someone's statement like that feels like you are devaluing Lunali's opinion. The fact that most, if not all, fraction casters have a lower DC is the result of having to split their scores into multiple stats.
This 9th level ability does make it significantly easier to have the enemies fail their save due to giving a theoretical -5 to their saving throw effectively making up for the DC being lower. Same as with Eldritch Knights that make enemies have disadvantage due to the Eldritch Strike feature.
The Arcane Trickster Rogue 9th-level feature "Magical Ambush" gives targets disadvantage on your spell's saving throws when you are hidden from them. It's fun :)
It should be noted that this feature is balanced out by arcane tricksters being 1/3 casters and generally having relatively low spellcasting modifiers.
Page 205 PHB, "The DC to resist one of your spells equals 8 +your spellcasting ability modifier + your proficiency bonus + any special modifiers."
Since DC and Spell Attack Bonus have nothing to do with whether you are a 1/4, 1/3, 1/2, 3/4 or full caster, please ignore Lunali's erroneous statement above.
For a properly built Arcane Trickster, this 9th level ability is quite devastating, if the look on many DM faces is anything to go by!
I listed those as two separate things that balanced it out. AT rogues will generally have lower spellcasting modifiers than a full caster as they have to rely on their dex for most of their damage. AT rogues will also have weaker and fewer spells than a full caster because they are only a 1/3 caster. These factors combined balance out their ability to inflict disadvantage on saves against their spells.
Silvery barbs pulls a lot of weight as a spell that not only inflicts disadvantage on an attack, check, or save AFTER seeing the result, but also gives you or an ally advantage on their next attack, check, or save. It is basically a stronger heightened spell metamagic with appropriately higher cost (but available to more classes at a lower level).
Imposing disadvantage on the saving throws of an enemy is fairly strong ability. Silvery Barbs is controversial precisely because it does this as early as level 1 and generally becomes more useful the higher level the PCs/monsters become. Heightened Metamagic costs 3 Sorcery Points, while the conversion rate of Sorcery Points to spell slots is 2 Sorcery Points for a level 1 slot and 3 Sorcery Points for a level 2 slot. Compared to a level 9 Arcane Trickster imposing this ability (which is also depndent on the Trickster being hidden when casting the spell), Silvery Barbs is a very low bar to clear. I would be cautious about allowing Silvery Barbs into your game if you are a DM.
Are there any abilities/spells that cause disadvantage on saving throws?
As a fairly new player of D&D, I wanted to understand of nuances of the rules before delving into any homebrew or DM roles. I only know a handful of rare circumstances that impose disadvantage on saving throws, like the second effect of Heart Weaver's Primer. Are they rare because it's meant to be an exceptionally powerful debuff?
Examples, rulings, or advice would be greatly appreciated.
The Instruments of the Bards give it on a subset of enchantment spells, which all use Wisdom saving throws as far as I know. A creature has disadvantage on Dexterity saving throws if it's restrained. That's all the ones I know about. It's pretty rare.
Restrained causes disadvantage on DEX saves. There are a LOT of things that can cause this condition.
Bestow Curse can cause disadvantage to any single ability score.
Just a couple things off the top of my head.
A good book and a cup of tea.
Homebrew| Bard: College of Composition
Feedback Appreciated!
That's pretty helpful! Gives quite a bit of context for how powerful a similar ability/spell should be.
My main goal was to create a Blood Hunter "Blood Curse of Intoxication" and possibly have it give disadvantage on a choice of DEX or WIS saving throws. But that requires further research into effects and balancing.
Sorcerers have a Metamagic "Heightened Spell" which gives 1 target disadvantage on its first saving throw against the spell you heightened. The Shadow Sorcerer has an ability which uses sorcery points called "Hound of Ill Omen" which gives the target disadvantage on saving throws against any spell you cast while the hound is within 5 ft of it.
Silvery barbs pulls a lot of weight as a spell that not only inflicts disadvantage on an attack, check, or save AFTER seeing the result, but also gives you or an ally advantage on their next attack, check, or save. It is basically a stronger heightened spell metamagic with appropriately higher cost (but available to more classes at a lower level).
The Arcane Trickster Rogue 9th-level feature "Magical Ambush" gives targets disadvantage on your spell's saving throws when you are hidden from them. It's fun :)
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
It should be noted that this feature is balanced out by arcane tricksters being 1/3 casters and generally having relatively low spellcasting modifiers.
Plus you need 9 levels of Rogue to get it, and most of your leveled spells need to be illusion/enchantment. Though at that point you have access to 2nd-level spells, which is where most of the good illusion & enchantment options live anyway.
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
3 levels of exhaustion does it too. And while not exactly what was asked, note that paralyzed, petrified, stunned, and unconscious conditions cause you to automatically fail STR/DEX saves
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Page 205 PHB, "The DC to resist one of your spells equals 8 +your spellcasting ability modifier + your proficiency bonus + any special modifiers."
Since DC and Spell Attack Bonus have nothing to do with whether you are a 1/4, 1/3, 1/2, 3/4 or full caster, please ignore Lunali's erroneous statement above. You can only be a few levels of caster and 12 levels of non cater and still have a powerful DC/SAB. Since most Rogues and Fighters who choose the magic casting subclass, most have their ability score for casting as high as their primary physical ability, and if they don't why are you bothering to take the magical subclass?
so a Fighter/Rogue PC of 12th level (varying classes) and a minimal casting ability score of 16 would be 8+3+4+1(lowest numerical aid by this level) = 16. and has nothing to do with caster level or style of caster!
For a properly built Arcane Trickster, who has an 18 INT by the time they get this 9th level ability, it is quite devastating, if the look on many DM faces is anything to go by!
Works best for a Arcane Trickster rogue multiclassed with at least one level of wizard/warlock/sorcerer with a Staff of the Magi :)
Lunali's statement is not erroneous. I think you may have just misunderstood it. Most rogues focus on DEX first as their primary stat. INT is usually not as high for a rogue as a pure wizard who raises INT first.
As a result, the typical DCs for an Arcane Trickster rogue tend to be lower since they often have other aspects of their character stats to focus on first. Not necessarily, but frequently. Using point buy for example and starting with 16 dex, making int 16 also, means that secondary stats like wisdom (for perception and finding traps/secret doors) or con for saves and hit points will tend to be lower. So rogues often have stats that are more spread out. The first two ASIs will often be spent getting dex to 20. The rogue might also want other feats rather than increasing int. Even starting 16, 16 and spending ASIs only to increase dex and int, the rogue will have the same DC as the wizard at level 12 (since they get an extra ASI at 10).
If the rogue spends ASIs on other things it takes even longer.
Basically, if you build around the level 9 ability and max int it can be a very impressive ability but it requires choices earlier on (or a very good dice roll for stats) to obtain the same DC as a wizard by the time the character reaches level 12.
Lunali's statement is technically not incorrect and telling people to ignore someone's statement like that feels like you are devaluing Lunali's opinion. The fact that most, if not all, fraction casters have a lower DC is the result of having to split their scores into multiple stats.
This 9th level ability does make it significantly easier to have the enemies fail their save due to giving a theoretical -5 to their saving throw effectively making up for the DC being lower. Same as with Eldritch Knights that make enemies have disadvantage due to the Eldritch Strike feature.
Shadow sorc lvl 6 hound summon also imposes disadvantage to all saves against your spells.
I listed those as two separate things that balanced it out. AT rogues will generally have lower spellcasting modifiers than a full caster as they have to rely on their dex for most of their damage. AT rogues will also have weaker and fewer spells than a full caster because they are only a 1/3 caster. These factors combined balance out their ability to inflict disadvantage on saves against their spells.
Imposing disadvantage on the saving throws of an enemy is fairly strong ability. Silvery Barbs is controversial precisely because it does this as early as level 1 and generally becomes more useful the higher level the PCs/monsters become. Heightened Metamagic costs 3 Sorcery Points, while the conversion rate of Sorcery Points to spell slots is 2 Sorcery Points for a level 1 slot and 3 Sorcery Points for a level 2 slot. Compared to a level 9 Arcane Trickster imposing this ability (which is also depndent on the Trickster being hidden when casting the spell), Silvery Barbs is a very low bar to clear. I would be cautious about allowing Silvery Barbs into your game if you are a DM.
Cutting Words From College of Lore Bard Level 3
Cutting words doesn't effect saving throws.
3 levels of exhaustion cause disadvantage on attack rolls and saving.