I'm still learning and I'm stuck on something... Let's say an Orc wants to intimidated a PC... he has +2 on the skill. What's the DC that the player will have to pass in order not to be intimidated? I've read the rules over and over and I am missing something super easy, I know. I don't see anything in the Orc's stat box... Thanks in advance.
teak
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A little bit of nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men... - Willy Wonka
There is no rule. Up to you. Just like there is often no defined DCs for any of those social skills. Perhaps make it a contested roll against the PCs intimidation skill.
I tend to either set a DC based on a passive skill of the target, or make it a contest: Deception vs Insight, Intimidation vs Intimidation, and Persuasion vs Investigation (to represent how logically and strongly the other person holds their own views).
These skills are all very role-playish, so the DC feels like it matters less than the role playing by those people involved. Definitely be sure to hand out advantage of disadvantage for all sorts of things, and don't be scared to add or subtract to the DC just before the roll if you've judged something harder or easier. You might also want to let it not be a simple pass/fail thing, but take into account how much above or below the target to determine the final outcome. Also you can just make things work or not work without a roll at all if it seems appropriate. Good luck!
Social skills like Deception, Intimidation and Persuasion are meant to be used on NPCs, not players. See Using Ability Scores, Social Interactions and these developer quotes:
The DMG has guidelines for resolving social interactions and setting DCs in Chapter 8: Running the Game. The short version is that a DC 10 Charisma check improves their response to a request by 1 step, while a 20 or higher improves it by 2 steps. Their default response depends on whether they're hostile, indifferent or friendly towards the PCs when the request is made.
Rather than simply telling the players that the Orcs are trying to intimidate them and roll X to resist, I'd suggest asking the players how they would like their characters to try to resist. Some examples:
Be Intimidating right back, cursing at the orcs and calling them cowards
Perform a feat of great Athleticism, lugging some huge rock over your head to show you need fear no one
Remember your Religious teachings, that there is nothing to truly fear in this world because your sould is untouchable
Use your Insight to realize that the Orcs attempts to intimidate you are just a way for them to hide from their own fears of death
If the players are having problems thinking of ways to react you can easily suggest some options to get them going. Then each character can roll their skill versus the orcs intimidate and you can see what happens.
Yes, usually a conversation check like this will be a contest - often against Insight, especially with Deception, but otherwise against Wisdom or whatever seems sensible.
Regardless of design intent, I see no reason that PCs might be deceived, persuaded, or intimidated by charismatic NPCs - there are tons of instances in the game where players are encouraged to make their PCs do things differently from how they would, or as though the PC does not know what the player knows. Having flat DCs makes things quicker, but skill contests work out basically the same and are useful when you don't have an exact DC in mind.
I tend to either set a DC based on a passive skill of the target, or make it a contest: Deception vs Insight, Intimidation vs Intimidation, and Persuasion vs Investigation (to represent how logically and strongly the other person holds their own views).
This, 100%
For social interactions, I don't tell the PC "you believe him", but I would say "he sounds sincere" ( he succeeded ), or act all obviously lying ( he failed ).
You can even extend this general mechanic beyond social situations if you like: 200 years ago, the tomb builder had an intelligence of 15, so he gets +2 on an intelligence roll, so the trap has a "take 10" skill roll of 12, targeting the passive perception of the characters. If a character has a PP of 12+, they see something amiss. The same trap being set by a Rogue, or Ranger, would likely add a proficiency bonus as well - DC of 14. Traps set by N/PCs get an actual roll, not just a "take 10".
The arcane inscription on the wall is the formula for a Level 5 spell, so it's got a "complexity roll" 15. Players with an Arcana of +5 or better recognize it instantly.
You can even scale the effects of success if you like: in the case of the arcane spell inscription, 0 over target = it's an inscription of hermetic magic, 1 over = it's an inscribed spell formula, 2 = it's a spell formula of evocation, 3 = it's the formula for a spell which allows the caster to channel elemental fire energy into a projected beam ( scorching ray ), 4 = this formula is very elegant, clearly a master wizard ( 10th level or higher ), 5+ over - I recognize the style of this formula composition, I believe this is the work of the sorceress Adeline Carpathia ...
Someone with a +4 would not recognize it automatically and passively, but could take the time to make an active roll to see what they can puzzle it out, with the same sliding scale of success.
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I'm still learning and I'm stuck on something... Let's say an Orc wants to intimidated a PC... he has +2 on the skill. What's the DC that the player will have to pass in order not to be intimidated? I've read the rules over and over and I am missing something super easy, I know. I don't see anything in the Orc's stat box... Thanks in advance.
teak
A little bit of nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men...
- Willy Wonka
There is no rule. Up to you. Just like there is often no defined DCs for any of those social skills. Perhaps make it a contested roll against the PCs intimidation skill.
I tend to either set a DC based on a passive skill of the target, or make it a contest: Deception vs Insight, Intimidation vs Intimidation, and Persuasion vs Investigation (to represent how logically and strongly the other person holds their own views).
These skills are all very role-playish, so the DC feels like it matters less than the role playing by those people involved. Definitely be sure to hand out advantage of disadvantage for all sorts of things, and don't be scared to add or subtract to the DC just before the roll if you've judged something harder or easier. You might also want to let it not be a simple pass/fail thing, but take into account how much above or below the target to determine the final outcome. Also you can just make things work or not work without a roll at all if it seems appropriate. Good luck!
Thanks for the information...very helpful!
teak
A little bit of nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men...
- Willy Wonka
Social skills like Deception, Intimidation and Persuasion are meant to be used on NPCs, not players. See Using Ability Scores, Social Interactions and these developer quotes:
"NPC ability checks can't force a PC to think/feel something, but they can affect how the DM describes the NPC."
"If an NPC has proficiency in a social skill, it's primarily meant to be used against other NPCs."
The DMG has guidelines for resolving social interactions and setting DCs in Chapter 8: Running the Game. The short version is that a DC 10 Charisma check improves their response to a request by 1 step, while a 20 or higher improves it by 2 steps. Their default response depends on whether they're hostile, indifferent or friendly towards the PCs when the request is made.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Thanks for the info..!
I found this from the great deity Google:
Rather than simply telling the players that the Orcs are trying to intimidate them and roll X to resist, I'd suggest asking the players how they would like their characters to try to resist. Some examples:
If the players are having problems thinking of ways to react you can easily suggest some options to get them going. Then each character can roll their skill versus the orcs intimidate and you can see what happens.
A little bit of nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men...
- Willy Wonka
Yes, usually a conversation check like this will be a contest - often against Insight, especially with Deception, but otherwise against Wisdom or whatever seems sensible.
Regardless of design intent, I see no reason that PCs might be deceived, persuaded, or intimidated by charismatic NPCs - there are tons of instances in the game where players are encouraged to make their PCs do things differently from how they would, or as though the PC does not know what the player knows. Having flat DCs makes things quicker, but skill contests work out basically the same and are useful when you don't have an exact DC in mind.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.