I'm a DM planning a session for 2 of my friends for a small competition we're having. Each of us has to come up with a oneshot based around rats in the basement (classic). I had the idea of putting enough rat swarms in the dungeon of a castle for them to look as if there's an adult black dragon sleeping in the cave, but I'm struggling with estimating how many swarms would it take...
An adult black dragon is a huge creature 15 x 15 feet in size and a swarm of rats is a medium 5 x 5 feet in size, so 9 swarms of rats would fill similar space.
An adult black dragon is a huge creature 15 x 15 feet in size and a swarm of rats is a medium 5 x 5 feet in size, so 9 swarms of rats would fill similar space.
Not quite correct. A large dragon controls an area 15*15*15 where a swarm of rats control an area 5*5*5.
The simple maths approach would mean that you need 27 swarms of rats with some piled on top of others.
I would argue it is more complex that this, a human controls an area 5ft *5ft *5ft but the whole area is not made up of their body mass, they can allow frinds to pass though that space even if they have a bit of difficulty. The same applies to dragon and the rats.
A elephant (other than the much smaller African Bush elephants) are about 120-250 cu ft. So you might want a pile of rats of similar volume. A swarm of rats can occupy another creatures space so no reason why that can not include another swarm(s). I imagine while dorment a swarm of rats might fil a 5 ft square but not be on top of each other which would mean they would fill an area 5ft * 5 ft * about 2 in or about 4 cu feet.
On the above calculations you would want 30-60 swarms of rats.
It's correct for the core rules. How big exactly a huge creature is we don't know, all we know is the 2D space it occupies and control. A huge dragon only occupy 27 squares/cubes if you symmetrically apply 3D but it's not a guideline written anywhere and the core rules instead only give measurements in 2D hence my answer based on space it control and occupy rather than physical size.
I'd say a rat swarm isn't a cube of rats, but more like a blanket - sorta 2d. While a dragon can certainly be measured in 3d, but maybe it isn't actually 15x15 of solid mass, that would be strange. But for rats to convincingly simulate a dragon, they'd need to be stacked pretty high. And there'd need to be rather a lot of them. Like, how many rats to a swarm?
The rats we have here in Denmark weigh around 200g. Let's say a dragon is in the same sort of weight category as an elephant. 6 tonnes. That's 5 rats to a kilo, 5000 rats to a ton, 30000 rats to an elephant. So let's just say a swarm is 10 rats, that's 3000 swarms. Or 300 swarms, if you think a swarm is more like 100 rats.
YMMV, obviously.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Are you sure you don't want to go with something easier to imitate? Even if you have hundreds of rats together, they will not form into a dragon-like shape. Dragons in D&D have long necks, and usually big-**s wings. Not to mention spiky bits on their skin, horns on their heads, etc. You'd have a much easier time getting convincing someone that a bunch of rats are actually a black pudding or gibbering mouther than an adult dragon of any color.
Actually pitting the party against 20+ swarms of rats in a single combat, or
expecting them to count the bodies for some reason,
does it matter? Narrate the whole thing, throw as many rats at the party as they can handle, and call it good. Don't ever write something in stone when you don't have to. Being only as specific as you need to be gives you more room to improvise later if needed.
Hi!
I'm a DM planning a session for 2 of my friends for a small competition we're having. Each of us has to come up with a oneshot based around rats in the basement (classic). I had the idea of putting enough rat swarms in the dungeon of a castle for them to look as if there's an adult black dragon sleeping in the cave, but I'm struggling with estimating how many swarms would it take...
An adult black dragon is a huge creature 15 x 15 feet in size and a swarm of rats is a medium 5 x 5 feet in size, so 9 swarms of rats would fill similar space.
Not quite correct. A large dragon controls an area 15*15*15 where a swarm of rats control an area 5*5*5.
The simple maths approach would mean that you need 27 swarms of rats with some piled on top of others.
I would argue it is more complex that this, a human controls an area 5ft *5ft *5ft but the whole area is not made up of their body mass, they can allow frinds to pass though that space even if they have a bit of difficulty. The same applies to dragon and the rats.
A elephant (other than the much smaller African Bush elephants) are about 120-250 cu ft. So you might want a pile of rats of similar volume. A swarm of rats can occupy another creatures space so no reason why that can not include another swarm(s). I imagine while dorment a swarm of rats might fil a 5 ft square but not be on top of each other which would mean they would fill an area 5ft * 5 ft * about 2 in or about 4 cu feet.
On the above calculations you would want 30-60 swarms of rats.
It's correct for the core rules. How big exactly a huge creature is we don't know, all we know is the 2D space it occupies and control. A huge dragon only occupy 27 squares/cubes if you symmetrically apply 3D but it's not a guideline written anywhere and the core rules instead only give measurements in 2D hence my answer based on space it control and occupy rather than physical size.
I'd say a rat swarm isn't a cube of rats, but more like a blanket - sorta 2d. While a dragon can certainly be measured in 3d, but maybe it isn't actually 15x15 of solid mass, that would be strange. But for rats to convincingly simulate a dragon, they'd need to be stacked pretty high. And there'd need to be rather a lot of them. Like, how many rats to a swarm?
The rats we have here in Denmark weigh around 200g. Let's say a dragon is in the same sort of weight category as an elephant. 6 tonnes. That's 5 rats to a kilo, 5000 rats to a ton, 30000 rats to an elephant. So let's just say a swarm is 10 rats, that's 3000 swarms. Or 300 swarms, if you think a swarm is more like 100 rats.
YMMV, obviously.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Are you sure you don't want to go with something easier to imitate? Even if you have hundreds of rats together, they will not form into a dragon-like shape. Dragons in D&D have long necks, and usually big-**s wings. Not to mention spiky bits on their skin, horns on their heads, etc. You'd have a much easier time getting convincing someone that a bunch of rats are actually a black pudding or gibbering mouther than an adult dragon of any color.
Unless you're planning on:
does it matter? Narrate the whole thing, throw as many rats at the party as they can handle, and call it good. Don't ever write something in stone when you don't have to. Being only as specific as you need to be gives you more room to improvise later if needed.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm