Ha. That document even says "Game objects are more rigorously capitalized. The following terms are capitalized:" and doesn't list concealed.
In fact, the only time it uses the word "conceal" is "The new search action encompasses Wisdom checks to discern hidden things, such as Wisdom (Perception) checks to find a concealed creature."
Gosh, I wonder if hiding conceals you, and if Perception finds you... It is a mystery of RAI, surely. </sarcasm>
But the condition never says "you are concealed". It says that you have three effects: Surprise, Concealed, and Attacks Affected.
That's an amazing sentence, it doesn't say you are concealed, it just says that you are Concealed.
That's not what I said at all. But it's a great strawman!
Invisible gives you an effect called Concealed., which is defined right after that little period.
The PHB and DMG does this same thing for really everything. It gives a game term or game object in the form of a bolded word followed by a period. Immediately following the period is the definition of that game term.
Ha. That document even says "Game objects are more rigorously capitalized. The following terms are capitalized:" and doesn't list concealed.
In fact, the only time it uses the word "conceal" is "The new search action encompasses Wisdom checks to discern hidden things, such as Wisdom (Perception) checks to find a concealed creature."
Gosh, I wonder if hiding conceals you, and if Perception finds you... It is a mystery of RAI, surely. </sarcasm>
It says that as part of the Search action. So, you're saying that the only way to find a Concealed. character is the Search action?
This document doesn't specifically list a lot of things that are "game objects" that are capitalized. But you know what it does list:
"Named parts of actions, class features, magic items, spells, etc. {the Break Enchantment feature of the Dispel Evil and Good spell}"
It lists as an example the Break Enchantment. part of Dispel Evil and Good, which lo and behold, is the exact same nomenclature as Concealed.
Ha. That document even says "Game objects are more rigorously capitalized. The following terms are capitalized:" and doesn't list concealed. In fact, the only time it uses the word "conceal" is "The new search action encompasses Wisdom checks to discern hidden things, such as Wisdom (Perception) checks to find a concealed creature." Gosh, I wonder if hiding conceals you, and if Perception finds you... It is a mystery of RAI, surely. </sarcasm>
It says that as part of the Search action. So, you're saying that the only way to find a Concealed. character is the Search action? This document doesn't specifically list a lot of things that are "game objects" that are capitalized. But you know what it does list: "Named parts of actions, class features, magic items, spells, etc. {the Break Enchantment feature of the Dispel Evil and Good spell}" It lists as an example the Break Enchantment. part of Dispel Evil and Good, which lo and behold, is the exact same nomenclature as Concealed.
Yes, headings are indeed capitalized. You are quoting a style guide. "Many more game terms are capitalized in SRD 5.2.1 than in 5.1; update their capitalization in your content to match."
Don't change the subject; pay attention to the threading. - There is zero evidence that concealed is a "term of art" that does not "correspond to common language". They use the term, uncapitalized and unadorned, throughout the book. Nowhere is it used as a term of art. They used it as a heading. - Nothing in any of the published materials defines a "term of art" or any formatting rules for declaring one. - Therefore, the notion that "concealed" is a term of art is an interpretation. It is not some special RAW-blessed idea. All RAW-only readings of the text are, by necessity, interpretation.
Dispel Evil and Good sure does break some enchantments. And to quote myself from over a year ago in this very thread, "Waaah, the birthday cake mechanic says I need to blow out the candles, but doesn't say they are on fire!"
- There is zero evidence that concealed is a "term of art" that does not "correspond to common language".
"Term of art" and "Game term" are the same thing; they're a phrase that has special meaning in the game. Concealed, within the invisible condition, is a game term. Elsewhere it is used without capitalization, which means the way it's used elsewhere may not even have the same meaning (I used the phrase 'term of art' because before you asked me for a source I was relying on half-remembered interviews that talked about this).
Ha. That document even says "Game objects are more rigorously capitalized. The following terms are capitalized:" and doesn't list concealed. In fact, the only time it uses the word "conceal" is "The new search action encompasses Wisdom checks to discern hidden things, such as Wisdom (Perception) checks to find a concealed creature." Gosh, I wonder if hiding conceals you, and if Perception finds you... It is a mystery of RAI, surely. </sarcasm>
It says that as part of the Search action. So, you're saying that the only way to find a Concealed. character is the Search action? This document doesn't specifically list a lot of things that are "game objects" that are capitalized. But you know what it does list: "Named parts of actions, class features, magic items, spells, etc. {the Break Enchantment feature of the Dispel Evil and Good spell}" It lists as an example the Break Enchantment. part of Dispel Evil and Good, which lo and behold, is the exact same nomenclature as Concealed.
Yes, headings are indeed capitalized. You are quoting a style guide. "Many more game terms are capitalized in SRD 5.2.1 than in 5.1; update their capitalization in your content to match."
Don't change the subject; pay attention to the threading. - There is zero evidence that concealed is a "term of art" that does not "correspond to common language". They use the term, uncapitalized and unadorned, throughout the book. Nowhere is it used as a term of art. They used it as a heading. - Nothing in any of the published materials defines a "term of art" or any formatting rules for declaring one. - Therefore, the notion that "concealed" is a term of art is an interpretation. It is not some special RAW-blessed idea. All RAW-only readings of the text are, by necessity, interpretation.
Dispel Evil and Good sure does break some enchantments. And to quote myself from over a year ago in this very thread, "Waaah, the birthday cake mechanic says I need to blow out the candles, but doesn't say they are on fire!"
I'm sorry, are you saying that the SRD is a style guide? It literally means System Reference Document.
And you're right, "concealed" is not a "term of art"/game term and it corresponds to the natural language understanding. However, Concealed. is a game term and is defined in the Invisible condition. So if they had said "you are concealed", you would have a leg to stand on. But they don't say that, do they? The rule says you have the effect Concealed. and defines exactly what that means.
And a better way to phrase your childish birthday cake argument to more align with the RAW, it would go something like this: "The birthday cake mechanic says I need to blow out the candles, if they are on fire. But there are no matches, lighters, or even fire mechanic in the game."
Man, are we really just splitting hairs here at this point? This thread (56 pages long) has long turned into pedantic interpretations by legalese rules lawyers that's devolved into bad faith argumentation. The only consensus is that there's is a group that interprets the rules as functional WITHOUT any homebrewing, while there is another that interprets them as dysfunctional WITHOUT any homebrewing. And I say this because you can interpret the rules as functional or dysfunctional as is, and to say any interpretation that makes them functional is homebrewing is honestly being dismissive and petty of these folks. We're long past arguing the merits of the rules and gone into trying to "win" over the others. If you don't like the rule, then alter it in your home games, but understand that not everyone will agree with your interpretations if you play at another table.
I'm sorry, are you saying that the SRD is a style guide? It literally means System Reference Document.
The document is a lot of things. Primarily it is writing that can be included in other works, via Creative Commons.
The update document only talks about capitalization in terms of writing style (when your derivative works should capitalize words).
The SRD itself very clearly states when it is providing definitions. The update document goes into very thorough detail about what definitions have been added, changed, etc. It does not correlate capitalization with definition. It is not saying what you think it says.
And a better way to phrase your childish birthday cake argument to more align with the RAW, it would go something like this: "The birthday cake mechanic says I need to blow out the candles, if they are on fire. But there are no matches, lighters, or even fire mechanic in the game."
You've got an Action to "Prepare Birthday Cake" that says you are lighting candles, tells you how to use matches, and even gives you a mechanic for blowing lit candles out. It further tells you that it ceases being a Birthday Cake once the candles are blown out (sad!). You've got a "Birthday Cake" Condition that lists "Lit Candles." as one of its effects. Then there's a sentence that says you need to blow out the candles before you can touch them, unless you somehow can touch Birthday Cakes. And you've got several seperate rules that let you "touch things that are on fire" or "move things without touching them."
Of course the candles are lit. Oh no, they bolded the term! It must mean it can't mean what it means!
I know that I'm interpreting the text. I know that you are, too.
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For the record, where is that declared in any of the books? Is that RAW? Or is that your interpretation of RAW?
https://media.dndbeyond.com/compendium-images/srd/guide/converting-to-srd-5.2.1.pdf discusses capitalization of game terms.
Ha. That document even says "Game objects are more rigorously capitalized. The following terms are capitalized:" and doesn't list concealed.
In fact, the only time it uses the word "conceal" is "The new search action encompasses Wisdom checks to discern hidden things, such as Wisdom (Perception) checks to find a concealed creature."
Gosh, I wonder if hiding conceals you, and if Perception finds you... It is a mystery of RAI, surely. </sarcasm>
That's not what I said at all. But it's a great strawman!
Invisible gives you an effect called Concealed., which is defined right after that little period.
The PHB and DMG does this same thing for really everything. It gives a game term or game object in the form of a bolded word followed by a period. Immediately following the period is the definition of that game term.
It says that as part of the Search action. So, you're saying that the only way to find a Concealed. character is the Search action?
This document doesn't specifically list a lot of things that are "game objects" that are capitalized. But you know what it does list:
"Named parts of actions, class features, magic items, spells, etc. {the Break Enchantment feature of the Dispel Evil and Good spell}"
It lists as an example the Break Enchantment. part of Dispel Evil and Good, which lo and behold, is the exact same nomenclature as Concealed.
Yes, headings are indeed capitalized. You are quoting a style guide. "Many more game terms are capitalized in SRD 5.2.1 than in 5.1; update their capitalization in your content to match."
Don't change the subject; pay attention to the threading.
- There is zero evidence that concealed is a "term of art" that does not "correspond to common language". They use the term, uncapitalized and unadorned, throughout the book. Nowhere is it used as a term of art. They used it as a heading.
- Nothing in any of the published materials defines a "term of art" or any formatting rules for declaring one.
- Therefore, the notion that "concealed" is a term of art is an interpretation. It is not some special RAW-blessed idea. All RAW-only readings of the text are, by necessity, interpretation.
Dispel Evil and Good sure does break some enchantments. And to quote myself from over a year ago in this very thread, "Waaah, the birthday cake mechanic says I need to blow out the candles, but doesn't say they are on fire!"
"Term of art" and "Game term" are the same thing; they're a phrase that has special meaning in the game. Concealed, within the invisible condition, is a game term. Elsewhere it is used without capitalization, which means the way it's used elsewhere may not even have the same meaning (I used the phrase 'term of art' because before you asked me for a source I was relying on half-remembered interviews that talked about this).
I'm sorry, are you saying that the SRD is a style guide? It literally means System Reference Document.
And you're right, "concealed" is not a "term of art"/game term and it corresponds to the natural language understanding. However, Concealed. is a game term and is defined in the Invisible condition. So if they had said "you are concealed", you would have a leg to stand on. But they don't say that, do they? The rule says you have the effect Concealed. and defines exactly what that means.
And a better way to phrase your childish birthday cake argument to more align with the RAW, it would go something like this: "The birthday cake mechanic says I need to blow out the candles, if they are on fire. But there are no matches, lighters, or even fire mechanic in the game."
Man, are we really just splitting hairs here at this point? This thread (56 pages long) has long turned into pedantic interpretations by legalese rules lawyers that's devolved into bad faith argumentation. The only consensus is that there's is a group that interprets the rules as functional WITHOUT any homebrewing, while there is another that interprets them as dysfunctional WITHOUT any homebrewing. And I say this because you can interpret the rules as functional or dysfunctional as is, and to say any interpretation that makes them functional is homebrewing is honestly being dismissive and petty of these folks. We're long past arguing the merits of the rules and gone into trying to "win" over the others. If you don't like the rule, then alter it in your home games, but understand that not everyone will agree with your interpretations if you play at another table.
The document is a lot of things. Primarily it is writing that can be included in other works, via Creative Commons.
The update document only talks about capitalization in terms of writing style (when your derivative works should capitalize words).
The SRD itself very clearly states when it is providing definitions. The update document goes into very thorough detail about what definitions have been added, changed, etc. It does not correlate capitalization with definition. It is not saying what you think it says.
You've got an Action to "Prepare Birthday Cake" that says you are lighting candles, tells you how to use matches, and even gives you a mechanic for blowing lit candles out. It further tells you that it ceases being a Birthday Cake once the candles are blown out (sad!). You've got a "Birthday Cake" Condition that lists "Lit Candles." as one of its effects. Then there's a sentence that says you need to blow out the candles before you can touch them, unless you somehow can touch Birthday Cakes. And you've got several seperate rules that let you "touch things that are on fire" or "move things without touching them."
Of course the candles are lit. Oh no, they bolded the term! It must mean it can't mean what it means!
I know that I'm interpreting the text. I know that you are, too.