So if anyone can cast a spell that uses a spell slot and use a bonus action to cast another spell that does not use spell slot, what good is quicken spell
Rules let us use items as a bonus action. Also new rules gives us the freedom to cast another spell per Turn that does not cost a spell slot. This means, scrolls, magic items and abilities. New quicken spell says can't cast 2 leveled spells in a turn.(I heard). I see no use for quicken now. Still can't cast 2 leveled spells
As jl8e, most free spells are an action to cast. Some bonus action ones are Divine Smite and Hunter's Mark.
Quickened Spell explicitly does not allow this interaction. When you Quicken a spell, you can't cast a level 1+ spell before or after with or without a slot. And that includes if the quickened spell is a cantrip. But you can quicken a leveled spell, and then cast a cantrip as an action, so it works like the 2014 rule.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat On - Mod Hat Off
Ok so you're saying no change to quicken in new rules.
So what can be done with new rules of only 1 spell slot per turn? We can't cast none spell slot spells because most of them are standard or magic action to use?
So quicken can be used to cast a leveled spell as a bonus and use a standard action to throw a fireball from a wand? We can do that in 2014
So quicken can be used to cast a leveled spell as a bonus and use a standard action to throw a fireball from a wand? We can do that in 2014
Well, under the 2014 rules, you can't do that. Items that allow spellcasting follow the same rules regarding bonus action spells. So if a spell is cast using a bonus action, only a cantrip can be cast through that Magic Item using your action.
In my opinion, Quickened Spell is still very useful under the 2024 rules.
Ok so you're saying no change to quicken in new rules.
So what can be done with new rules of only 1 spell slot per turn? We can't cast none spell slot spells because most of them are standard or magic action to use?
So quicken can be used to cast a leveled spell as a bonus and use a standard action to throw a fireball from a wand? We can do that in 2014
It's my understanding that, under a the new rules (which I have not seen), that quicken + wand is legit, but I can't confirm that.
But also, quicken spell allows for the entire world of actions that aren't spells. Dash+spell. Study+spell. Attack+spell. Disengage+spell. Etc.
Sorry about this but was it clarified that if you want to cast any spell with just your action. then it must have a casting time of 1 action. You cannot take a bonus action to cast a second spell that turn. Correct? So, if you cast Fireball with your action, then you cannot cast any spell as a BA. If you carry a quarterstaff or 2, can you swing one of them as part of two-weapon fighting? Or maybe fire a hand crossbow? Can a wooden crossbow be a focus? I ask the last 3 questions because I don't know if this was ever clarified. Thanks
Sorry about this but was it clarified that if you want to cast any spell with just your action. then it must have a casting time of 1 action. You cannot take a bonus action to cast a second spell that turn. Correct? So, if you cast Fireball with your action, then you cannot cast any spell as a BA. If you carry a quarterstaff or 2, can you swing one of them as part of two-weapon fighting? Or maybe fire a hand crossbow? Can a wooden crossbow be a focus? I ask the last 3 questions because I don't know if this was ever clarified. Thanks
Under 2024 rules, you can only cast one spell with a spell slot per turn. You can cast another spell on the same turn if it doesn't use a spell slot (either because it's a cantrip or because it's a spell you can cast without a spell slot from a feat, class feature, etc.) and you have the right kind of action available.
So, it is not true that if you cast Fireball with your action, you can't cast any spell as a bonus action. You can still cast a spell that has a casting time of 1 bonus action if it doesn't use a spell slot.
Two-weapon fighting generally requires you to have used your action to take the Attack action before you can make a bonus action attack with a different weapon, so it's not really applicable here. Quarterstaves cannot generally be used for two-weapon fighting anyway as they do not have the Light property.
A crossbow cannot be used as a spellcasting focus unless you have a specific class feature that allows using weapons as spellcasting focuses (such as the Valor Bard's Martial Training feature).
Ok so you're saying no change to quicken in new rules.
So what can be done with new rules of only 1 spell slot per turn? We can't cast none spell slot spells because most of them are standard or magic action to use?
So quicken can be used to cast a leveled spell as a bonus and use a standard action to throw a fireball from a wand? We can do that in 2014
It's my understanding that, under a the new rules (which I have not seen), that quicken + wand is legit, but I can't confirm that.
But also, quicken spell allows for the entire world of actions that aren't spells. Dash+spell. Study+spell. Attack+spell. Disengage+spell. Etc.
Mmm. Since this thread popped up again, I'd like to add the final rule from the book about Quickened Spell:
Quickened Spell
When you cast a spell that has a casting time of an action, you can spend 2 Sorcery Points to change the casting time to a Bonus Action for this casting. You can’t modify a spell in this way if you’ve already cast a level 1+ spell on the current turn, nor can you cast a level 1+ spell on this turn after modifying a spell in this way.
So, quickening a spell and casting another level 1+ spell using a Magic Item wouldn't be allowed.
In my opinion, Quickened Spell is still very useful under the 2024 rules.
It's awful. When you think about how to better spend 2 sorcery points, there's a far better choices, like for example recovering a 1st-level slot. Two points to basically cast an extra cantrip in a turn, is situational.
So no, it's a comparable to the paladin's smite nerf. Dabbling with action economy used to be a nice feature that differentiated the sorcerer from the wizard.
In my opinion, Quickened Spell is still very useful under the 2024 rules.
It's awful. When you think about how to better spend 2 sorcery points, there's a far better choices, like for example recovering a 1st-level slot. Two points to basically cast an extra cantrip in a turn, is situational.
As opposed to 2014, rules where you could use it to cast an extra cantrip per turn?
Cantrips aren't terrible -- they're the caster equivalent of the martial classes' basic attack action.
And also there's still the entire world of actions that are not spells.
Let's say you had a spell gem from Out of the abyss module, which lets you use an action to cast from it. In 2014 it was possible to then quicken a leveled spell that turn.
Yes, yes, the sorcerer is really useful with its action when not casting spells. Cantrip spam for 2 points, good trade.
Let's say you had a spell gem from Out of the abyss module, which lets you use an action to cast from it. In 2014 it was possible to then quicken a leveled spell that turn.
It wasn't allowed. If you cast a bonus action spell in 2014, the only spells you were allowed to cast were single-action cantrips. This included spells cast from objects.
2024 is more liberal in the casting rules, but 2024 quickened spell is closer to the 14 rules.
Let's say you had a spell gem from Out of the abyss module, which lets you use an action to cast from it. In 2014 it was possible to then quicken a leveled spell that turn.
It wasn't allowed. If you cast a bonus action spell in 2014, the only spells you were allowed to cast were single-action cantrips. This included spells cast from objects.
2024 is more liberal in the casting rules, but 2024 quickened spell is closer to the 14 rules.
Even if you are right, there are also great unofficial products like 2CGaming ones (designed to play beyond level 20) where some epic feats allows you to cast as many spells as you had actions. The 2014 precluded two castings because the general spellcasting rules, so specific could beat that. The specific wording of 2024 quicken now forbids that. And let me concede you that 2024 quicken might not be awful, just subpar
Let's say you had a spell gem from Out of the abyss module, which lets you use an action to cast from it. In 2014 it was possible to then quicken a leveled spell that turn.
It wasn't allowed. If you cast a bonus action spell in 2014, the only spells you were allowed to cast were single-action cantrips. This included spells cast from objects.
2024 is more liberal in the casting rules, but 2024 quickened spell is closer to the 14 rules.
Even if you are right, there are also great unofficial products like 2CGaming ones (designed to play beyond level 20) where some epic feats allows you to cast as many spells as you had actions. The 2014 precluded two castings because the general spellcasting rules, so specific could beat that. The specific wording of 2024 quicken now forbids that.
Third-party products are not relevant to discussions of the core rules, because if they're giving you extra abilities, they can override the core rules however they like.
And let me concede you that 2024 quicken might not be awful, just subpar
It's functionally unchanged from the 2014 quicken. You can cast one cantrip and one leveled spell, both now and before.
It's functionally unchanged from the 2014 quicken. You can cast one cantrip and one leveled spell, both now and before
It is changed, even if it means nothing to your gameplay. It was ruled by a general rule and now by a specific rule, which by definition is hierarchically more restrictive.
Let's leave at that, because we both have already made our points, even if we don't agree.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
So if anyone can cast a spell that uses a spell slot and use a bonus action to cast another spell that does not use spell slot, what good is quicken spell
Most of the time, you can't use a bonus action to cast your non-slot spells.
Rules let us use items as a bonus action. Also new rules gives us the freedom to cast another spell per Turn that does not cost a spell slot. This means, scrolls, magic items and abilities. New quicken spell says can't cast 2 leveled spells in a turn.(I heard). I see no use for quicken now. Still can't cast 2 leveled spells
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
ModeratorAs jl8e, most free spells are an action to cast. Some bonus action ones are Divine Smite and Hunter's Mark.
Quickened Spell explicitly does not allow this interaction. When you Quicken a spell, you can't cast a level 1+ spell before or after with or without a slot. And that includes if the quickened spell is a cantrip. But you can quicken a leveled spell, and then cast a cantrip as an action, so it works like the 2014 rule.
Feature Requests || Homebrew FAQ || Pricing FAQ || Hardcovers FAQ || Snippet Codes || Tooltips
DDB Guides & FAQs, Class Guides, Character Builds, Game Guides, Useful Websites, and WOTC Resources
Ok so you're saying no change to quicken in new rules.
So what can be done with new rules of only 1 spell slot per turn? We can't cast none spell slot spells because most of them are standard or magic action to use?
So quicken can be used to cast a leveled spell as a bonus and use a standard action to throw a fireball from a wand? We can do that in 2014
Well, under the 2014 rules, you can't do that. Items that allow spellcasting follow the same rules regarding bonus action spells. So if a spell is cast using a bonus action, only a cantrip can be cast through that Magic Item using your action.
In my opinion, Quickened Spell is still very useful under the 2024 rules.
It's my understanding that, under a the new rules (which I have not seen), that quicken + wand is legit, but I can't confirm that.
But also, quicken spell allows for the entire world of actions that aren't spells. Dash+spell. Study+spell. Attack+spell. Disengage+spell. Etc.
Sorry about this but was it clarified that if you want to cast any spell with just your action. then it must have a casting time of 1 action. You cannot take a bonus action to cast a second spell that turn. Correct? So, if you cast Fireball with your action, then you cannot cast any spell as a BA. If you carry a quarterstaff or 2, can you swing one of them as part of two-weapon fighting? Or maybe fire a hand crossbow? Can a wooden crossbow be a focus? I ask the last 3 questions because I don't know if this was ever clarified. Thanks
We are all in danger!
Under 2024 rules, you can only cast one spell with a spell slot per turn. You can cast another spell on the same turn if it doesn't use a spell slot (either because it's a cantrip or because it's a spell you can cast without a spell slot from a feat, class feature, etc.) and you have the right kind of action available.
So, it is not true that if you cast Fireball with your action, you can't cast any spell as a bonus action. You can still cast a spell that has a casting time of 1 bonus action if it doesn't use a spell slot.
Two-weapon fighting generally requires you to have used your action to take the Attack action before you can make a bonus action attack with a different weapon, so it's not really applicable here. Quarterstaves cannot generally be used for two-weapon fighting anyway as they do not have the Light property.
A crossbow cannot be used as a spellcasting focus unless you have a specific class feature that allows using weapons as spellcasting focuses (such as the Valor Bard's Martial Training feature).
pronouns: he/she/they
Mmm. Since this thread popped up again, I'd like to add the final rule from the book about Quickened Spell:
So, quickening a spell and casting another level 1+ spell using a Magic Item wouldn't be allowed.
Related thread: Magic Items, casting leveled spells and 2024 rules. - Rules & Game Mechanics
It's awful. When you think about how to better spend 2 sorcery points, there's a far better choices, like for example recovering a 1st-level slot. Two points to basically cast an extra cantrip in a turn, is situational.
So no, it's a comparable to the paladin's smite nerf. Dabbling with action economy used to be a nice feature that differentiated the sorcerer from the wizard.
As opposed to 2014, rules where you could use it to cast an extra cantrip per turn?
Cantrips aren't terrible -- they're the caster equivalent of the martial classes' basic attack action.
And also there's still the entire world of actions that are not spells.
Let's say you had a spell gem from Out of the abyss module, which lets you use an action to cast from it. In 2014 it was possible to then quicken a leveled spell that turn.
Yes, yes, the sorcerer is really useful with its action when not casting spells. Cantrip spam for 2 points, good trade.
It wasn't allowed. If you cast a bonus action spell in 2014, the only spells you were allowed to cast were single-action cantrips. This included spells cast from objects.
2024 is more liberal in the casting rules, but 2024 quickened spell is closer to the 14 rules.
Even if you are right, there are also great unofficial products like 2CGaming ones (designed to play beyond level 20) where some epic feats allows you to cast as many spells as you had actions. The 2014 precluded two castings because the general spellcasting rules, so specific could beat that. The specific wording of 2024 quicken now forbids that. And let me concede you that 2024 quicken might not be awful, just subpar
Third-party products are not relevant to discussions of the core rules, because if they're giving you extra abilities, they can override the core rules however they like.
It's functionally unchanged from the 2014 quicken. You can cast one cantrip and one leveled spell, both now and before.
It is changed, even if it means nothing to your gameplay. It was ruled by a general rule and now by a specific rule, which by definition is hierarchically more restrictive.
Let's leave at that, because we both have already made our points, even if we don't agree.