Effects The effects of a spell are detailed after its duration entry. Those details present exactly what the spell does, which ignores mundane physical laws; any outcomes beyond those effects are under the DM’s purview. Whatever the effects, they typically deal with targets, saving throws, attack rolls, or all three, each of which is detailed below.
Concentration was changed a bit from 2014 version of Concentration, as it now specifies effects rather than just spells
Concentration (Rules Glossary): Some spells and other effects require Concentration to remain active, as specified in their descriptions. If the effect’s creator loses Concentration, the effect ends. If the effect has a maximum duration, the effect’s description specifies how long the creator can concentrate on it: up to 1 minute, 1 hour, or some other duration. The creator can end Concentration at any time (no action required).
Colossus on Discord posted this, which I believe explains it better than I could: "The temp HP from Polymorph is part of the spell's effect. A spell's duration is the length of time its effects last. So when the spell ends, either by losing concentration or by its duration running out, then the temp HP will go away. We can compare this to a spell like False Life, which has an instantaneous effect to grant temp HP. Because that spell is instantaneous, the temp hp that it grants is not tied to the spell's duration and does follow the normal temp hp rules of lasting until a long rest"
Colossus on Discord posted this, which I believe explains it better than I could: "The temp HP from Polymorph is part of the spell's effect. A spell's duration is the length of time its effects last. So when the spell ends, either by losing concentration or by its duration running out, then the temp HP will go away. We can compare this to a spell like False Life, which has an instantaneous effect to grant temp HP. Because that spell is instantaneous, the temp hp that it grants is not tied to the spell's duration and does follow the normal temp hp rules of lasting until a long rest"
This person is completely wrong about how these things work unfortunately. There is no difference in the function of a spell effect that is instantaneous vs a spell effect that has a longer duration. In both cases, the spell effect does what it says.
From the Spells chapter we have this:
Instantaneous. An instantaneous duration means the spell’s magic appears only for a moment and then disappears.
Time Span. A duration that provides a time span specifies how long the spell lasts in rounds, minutes, hours, or the like.
The ONLY thing that is specified here is the length of time that the spell effect exists. That's it. The spell's magic either appears only for a moment or it lasts for a time span specified in terms of rounds, minutes, hours, or the like. That's the only difference. While the spell effect exists, it is what it is, and it does what it says.
Now, the thing that confuses a lot of people is that a spell effect can cause a consequence that persists in the world well beyond the existence of the effect. The thing that happens to a creature or object when they interact with a spell effect is not the spell effect itself -- it's a consequence of interacting with the spell effect. This is the whole reason why an instantaneous spell effect can even do anything consequential in the first place. The actual spell effect exists only for a moment, but it can cause long lasting and devastating consequences.
For example, consider the spell Moonbeam. This spell has a duration of 1 minute. The actual spell effect that is created by casting this spell is a silvery beam of pale light that fills up a defined area (an AoE). However, there are consequences to a creature who interacts with this spell effect. Most notably, the spell effect causes damage. That damage causes the creature to lose hit points. Importantly, this damage does not last for only 1 minute. The damage is "permanent". After the duration of this spell effect expires and the spell effect itself ceases to exist from the world, the creature remains damaged. The fact that the creature now has fewer hit points is not magical in and of itself. It may have been caused by a magical effect, but this consequence itself is not magical. However, it is ongoing, persisting beyond the time span of the spell effect.
It's the same concept when a spell effect causes a creature to gain temporary hit points. The existence of the False Life spell actually confirms this. In that spell, the duration of the spell effect is instantaneous, but the spell description says that the creature gains temporary hit points. It does NOT say something like "the creature has temporary hit points for the duration". Instead, the spell effect causes the creature to gain temporary hit points. This is a permanent consequence of that spell, and the temporary hit points gained by that spell clearly follow the rules for the duration of temporary hit points, NOT the rules for the duration of a spell effect. In that case, the spell effect is the magical thing that exists only for a moment which interacts with a creature in such a way that it causes a permanent, non-magical consequence.
The same thing MIGHT be true of the Polymorph spell.
Again, it's not a question of how the concentration rules work or the length of the duration of the spell. The essential question is whether or not the gain of temporary hit points is a part of the description for what happens when the "shape-shift" process occurs -- which explicitly lasts only "for the duration". OR, is this gain of temporary hit points caused by a separate effect of the spell unrelated to the shape-shift process, and therefore persists beyond the duration? Since this is listed in a separate paragraph it might be more correct to interpret this as a separate effect, but it can reasonably be read either way.
In terms of the RAI, I do think that it clearly is meant to be part of the shape-shift process which expires when the shape-shift expires.
Looking at the text of Concentration in the new book and how Polymorph is written, I'd have to agree that RAW is you lose the temp HP at the end of the spell's duration. A spell's effect is the entire block of text. Therefore, because the temp HP is part of the effect of the spell, it should be lost when Concentration breaks.
Looking at the text of Concentration in the new book and how Polymorph is written, I'd have to agree that RAW is you lose the temp HP at the end of the spell's duration. A spell's effect is the entire block of text. Therefore, because the temp HP is part of the effect of the spell, it should be lost when Concentration breaks.
This. People are just conveniently ignoring rules to make a point. Per CH7, A spell's effect is the entire description of the spell, and Concentration says: "Some spells and other effects require Concentration to remain active, as specified in their descriptions. If the effect’s creator loses Concentration, the effect ends."
Colossus on Discord posted this, which I believe explains it better than I could: "The temp HP from Polymorph is part of the spell's effect. A spell's duration is the length of time its effects last. So when the spell ends, either by losing concentration or by its duration running out, then the temp HP will go away. We can compare this to a spell like False Life, which has an instantaneous effect to grant temp HP. Because that spell is instantaneous, the temp hp that it grants is not tied to the spell's duration and does follow the normal temp hp rules of lasting until a long rest"
This person is completely wrong about how these things work unfortunately. There is no difference in the function of a spell effect that is instantaneous vs a spell effect that has a longer duration. In both cases, the spell effect does what it says.
The person is completely right based on what I just described above, which you conveniently ignored. Oh, and I like how you posted the Duration description from CH7 and conveniently left this one:
Concentration. A duration that requires Concentration follows the Concentration rules (see the rules glossary).
So, let me repeat this again, from the text:
Effects The effects of a spell are detailed after its duration entry. Those details present exactly what the spell does, which ignores mundane physical laws; any outcomes beyond those effects are under the DM’s purview. Whatever the effects, they typically deal with targets, saving throws, attack rolls, or all three, each of which is detailed below.
Concentration was changed a bit from 2014 version of Concentration, as it now specifies effects rather than just spells
Concentration (Rules Glossary): Some spells and other effects require Concentration to remain active, as specified in their descriptions.If the effect’s creator loses Concentration, the effect ends. If the effect has a maximum duration, the effect’s description specifies how long the creator can concentrate on it: up to 1 minute, 1 hour, or some other duration. The creator can end Concentration at any time (no action required).
The magic spell doesn't have to spell out that the temporary HP lasts for the duration, because it is part of an effect given by a spell that has a mechanical rule requirement (Concentration) to remain active, with a trigger that ends the effect built into the mechanical rule.
Then you go on to use the spell False Life as an example to prove a point, but your example is already flawed because False Life no longer has a Duration like in 2014 and was changed to just give the Temporary Hit Points; this is why False Life no longer specifies a duration. The spell effect is NOT the "magical thing that exists only for a moment" as you put it; the spell effect is gaining Temp HP per the Effects section of CH7--which I linked--which say The effects of a spell are detailed after its duration entry.
In the case of Polymorph, everything past the duration entry is the effect of the spell, including the temporary HP. The fact that each paragraph specifically references the form you gain should be proof enough that it's all tied to you shape-shifting, and the reason they're been separated is to have it cleanly organized. That's just basic writing.
So, based on everything I described above and linked, then "The temp HP from Polymorph is part of the spell's effect, so when the spell ends--either by losing concentration or by its duration running out--then the temp HP will go away.
Looking at the text of Concentration in the new book and how Polymorph is written, I'd have to agree that RAW is you lose the temp HP at the end of the spell's duration. A spell's effect is the entire block of text. Therefore, because the temp HP is part of the effect of the spell, it should be lost when Concentration breaks.
This isn't exactly true. If the entire block of text ceases to have any meaning when the duration of a spell expires, then the functionality of virtually all spells would become broken. All instantaneous spells would essentially do nothing.
According to this interpretation, the False Life spell does nothing. You are granted temporary hit points for a brief moment and then they immediately vanish since the spell effect only exists instantaneously. That simply is not how the game works.
Look closely at how the spell effect of a spell is defined:
The effects of a spell are detailed after its duration entry. Those details present exactly what the spell does . . .
It doesn't say that the entire block of text IS the spell effect. It says that the entire spell effect is included in the block of text. But the block of text also contains other things. Most notably, it presents exactly what the spell DOES.
What a spell effect IS and what it DOES are two different things. This is explained at much greater length in my previous post. But a spell effect is a thing that exists in the environment for a certain period of time -- typically for the duration of the spell. When that spell effect interacts with the environment, it causes specifically defined consequences. Those consequences are not the spell effect itself -- those are what the spell effect DOES. Spells do what they say.
These consequences persist indefinitely unless the spell description says otherwise. That's why so many spell descriptions include the phrase "for the duration" somewhere within the text of the Effect block itself, even though this would appear redundant since the duration is already defined in the Duration block above. That is because the Duration of the spell defines how long the spell effect itself exists for. Any consequence that is caused by that spell effect must explicitly define its own duration.
In the case of the Polymorph spell, a spell effect is created that causes a creature to shape-shift "for the duration [of the spell]". This makes it clear that the shape-shift is tied to the ongoing existence of the spell effect. When the spell ends, the spell effect ends and therefore the shape-shift ends. The problem is that it's not clear if the temporary HP is part of the shape-shift or not and the temporary HP is also not given its own duration.
If it is determined that the temporary HP was not part of the shape-shift and the spell description does not specify a duration for the existence of the temporary HP that are gained as a consequence of this spell effect, then these temporary HP must persist beyond the duration of the spell.
There are tons of examples in the game that clearly illustrate the concept that I am talking about. Just look up any of the old threads that discuss the Detect Magic spell for particular situations. Perhaps a spell was cast that permanently altered an object somehow. But if you now cast Detect Magic on that object, it would not detect anything. The object isn't magical and there are no magical effects present. The spell effect which caused this alteration ceased to exist a long time ago.
Here's an easy example: The spell Create or Destroy Water
This spell has an instantaneous duration. By definition, the spell effect exists only for a moment. After casting the spell, there is 10 gallons of clean water in a container that wasn't there before. If you cast Detect Magic on that water, you would not detect anything magical. The water is not magical. There is no ongoing spell effect.
However, the text of the Effect block does say the following: "You create up to 10 gallons of clean water within range in an open container." But just because these words exist within that block of text doesn't mean that this IS the spell effect and therefore all of this vanishes when the spell expires. No. The spell effect is the thing that creates this water. That's what the spell effect DOES. The water is a consequence of the spell effect, and it persists and continues to exist long after the spell effect ceases to exist.
Another example: Power Word Stun
This spell has an instantaneous duration. The text in the effect block says: "it has the Stunned condition." but it does not specify a duration. Does this mean that this Condition IS the spell effect and therefore ceases to exist when the spell effect expires (instantaneously)? No. The spell effect caused the Stunned Condition as a consequence of interacting with the spell effect. In fact, this Condition is ongoing. Additional text explains that "The Stunned target makes a Constitution saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the condition on itself on a success." So, the target is Stunned for a period of time that is quite a bit longer than instantaneous, even though there is no longer any spell effect in existence.
As a matter of fact, while this creature continues to be Stunned round after round, there is actually nothing magical happening to that creature on an ongoing basis. It is simply Stunned and continues to be Stunned. The magical effect that caused this has ceased to exist long ago and there might be nothing magical anywhere in the nearby environment. So, even though the acquisition of the Stunned Condition is described in the text of the Effect block, continuing to be Stunned is not a magical effect.
This sort of thing, particularly as it relates to the Detect Magic spell, is confirmed all over the place by Sage Advice for those who care about such things.
Looking at the text of Concentration in the new book and how Polymorph is written, I'd have to agree that RAW is you lose the temp HP at the end of the spell's duration. A spell's effect is the entire block of text. Therefore, because the temp HP is part of the effect of the spell, it should be lost when Concentration breaks.
This isn't exactly true. If the entire block of text ceases to have any meaning when the duration of a spell expires, then the functionality of virtually all spells would become broken. All instantaneous spells would essentially do nothing.
According to this interpretation, the False Life spell does nothing. You are granted temporary hit points for a brief moment and then they immediately vanish since the spell effect only exists instantaneously. That simply is not how the game works.
Look closely at how the spell effect of a spell is defined:
The effects of a spell are detailed after its duration entry. Those details present exactly what the spell does . . .
It doesn't say that the entire block of text IS the spell effect. It says that the entire spell effect is included in the block of text. But the block of text also contains other things. Most notably, it presents exactly what the spell DOES.
What a spell effect IS and what it DOES are two different things. This is explained at much greater length in my previous post. But a spell effect is a thing that exists in the environment for a certain period of time -- typically for the duration of the spell. When that spell effect interacts with the environment, it causes specifically defined consequences. Those consequences are not the spell effect itself -- those are what the spell effect DOES. Spells do what they say.
These consequences persist indefinitely unless the spell description says otherwise. That's why so many spell descriptions include the phrase "for the duration" somewhere within the text of the Effect block itself, even though this would appear redundant since the duration is already defined in the Duration block above. That is because the Duration of the spell defines how long the spell effect itself exists for. Any consequence that is caused by that spell effect must explicitly define its own duration.
In the case of the Polymorph spell, a spell effect is created that causes a creature to shape-shift "for the duration [of the spell]". This makes it clear that the shape-shift is tied to the ongoing existence of the spell effect. When the spell ends, the spell effect ends and therefore the shape-shift ends. The problem is that it's not clear if the temporary HP is part of the shape-shift or not and the temporary HP is also not given its own duration.
If it is determined that the temporary HP was not part of the shape-shift and the spell description does not specify a duration for the existence of the temporary HP that are gained as a consequence of this spell effect, then these temporary HP must persist beyond the duration of the spell.
What a willfully obtuse interpretation. The temp HP is part of the shape-shift since you gain them from the Beast stat block you select; so if you choose a Cat, you gain 13 THP, and if you choose a Dire Wolf, you gain 22 THP. If you choose nothing, you don't gain any temp HP. All paragraphs reference the Beast form you shape-shift into for each of their mechanical effects. How is this so utterly incomprehensible to you? Because it's in a separate paragraph? It's clean writing for ease of reading, otherwise you get this:
Polymorph: You attempt to transform a creature that you can see within range into a Beast. The target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or shape-shift into Beast form for the duration. That form can be any Beast you choose that has a Challenge Rating equal to or less than the target’s (or the target’s level if it doesn’t have a Challenge Rating). The target’s game statistics are replaced by the stat block of the chosen Beast, but the target retains its alignment, personality, creature type, Hit Points, and Hit Point Dice. The target gains a number of Temporary Hit Points equal to the Hit Points of the Beast form. The spell ends early on the target if it has no Temporary Hit Points left. The target is limited in the actions it can perform by the anatomy of its new form, and it can’t speak or cast spells. The target’s gear melds into the new form. The creature can’t use or otherwise benefit from any of that equipment.
Does this change the meaning? No, but it's all mushed together and hard to read.
The temp HP is part of the shape-shift since you gain them from the Beast stat block you select; so if you choose a Cat, you gain 13 THP, and if you choose a Dire Wolf, you gain 22 THP. If you choose nothing, you don't gain any temp HP. All paragraphs reference the Beast form you shape-shift into for each of their mechanical effects.
I agree with all of this, and I agree that this is the best interpretation for how Polymorph works. But the reason why has nothing to do with the rules for Concentration or the ending of the spell and its effect. It's because the temporary HP gain should be considered to be part of the process of the shape-shift which explicitly only lasts "for the duration".
But to make this more clear, my suggestion to the author would be to put that sentence into the same paragraph as the shape-shift procedure. Something like this:
"
You attempt to transform a creature that you can see within range into a Beast. The target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or shape-shift into Beast form for the duration. That form can be any Beast you choose that has a Challenge Rating equal to or less than the target’s (or the target’s level if it doesn’t have a Challenge Rating). The target’s game statistics are replaced by the stat block of the chosen Beast, but the target retains its alignment, personality, creature type, Hit Points, and Hit Point Dice. The target gains a number of Temporary Hit Points equal to the Hit Points of the Beast form.
The spell ends early on the target if it has no Temporary Hit Points left.
The target is limited in the actions it can perform by the anatomy of its new form, and it can’t speak or cast spells.
The target’s gear melds into the new form. The creature can’t use or otherwise benefit from any of that equipment.
"
. . .
The above is exactly as readable as the printed version -- it has the same number of paragraphs. It just properly delineates which statements are part of the shape-shift procedure and which are other aspects of the description of the spell.
As written, it is reasonable for a DM to read the spell and interpret the statement about the temporary HP gain to be a separate consequence of the spell effect from the shape-shift procedure. IF that happens, the only conclusion that such a DM can logically make is that those temporary hit points persist beyond the duration of the spell.
Looking at the text of Concentration in the new book and how Polymorph is written, I'd have to agree that RAW is you lose the temp HP at the end of the spell's duration. A spell's effect is the entire block of text. Therefore, because the temp HP is part of the effect of the spell, it should be lost when Concentration breaks.
This isn't exactly true. If the entire block of text ceases to have any meaning when the duration of a spell expires, then the functionality of virtually all spells would become broken. All instantaneous spells would essentially do nothing.
According to this interpretation, the False Life spell does nothing. You are granted temporary hit points for a brief moment and then they immediately vanish since the spell effect only exists instantaneously. That simply is not how the game works.
Look closely at how the spell effect of a spell is defined:
The effects of a spell are detailed after its duration entry. Those details present exactly what the spell does . . .
It doesn't say that the entire block of text IS the spell effect. It says that the entire spell effect is included in the block of text. But the block of text also contains other things. Most notably, it presents exactly what the spell DOES.
What a spell effect IS and what it DOES are two different things. This is explained at much greater length in my previous post. But a spell effect is a thing that exists in the environment for a certain period of time -- typically for the duration of the spell. When that spell effect interacts with the environment, it causes specifically defined consequences. Those consequences are not the spell effect itself -- those are what the spell effect DOES. Spells do what they say.
These consequences persist indefinitely unless the spell description says otherwise. That's why so many spell descriptions include the phrase "for the duration" somewhere within the text of the Effect block itself, even though this would appear redundant since the duration is already defined in the Duration block above. That is because the Duration of the spell defines how long the spell effect itself exists for. Any consequence that is caused by that spell effect must explicitly define its own duration.
In the case of the Polymorph spell, a spell effect is created that causes a creature to shape-shift "for the duration [of the spell]". This makes it clear that the shape-shift is tied to the ongoing existence of the spell effect. When the spell ends, the spell effect ends and therefore the shape-shift ends. The problem is that it's not clear if the temporary HP is part of the shape-shift or not and the temporary HP is also not given its own duration.
If it is determined that the temporary HP was not part of the shape-shift and the spell description does not specify a duration for the existence of the temporary HP that are gained as a consequence of this spell effect, then these temporary HP must persist beyond the duration of the spell.
-Using False Life (or any other spell with an Instantaneous duration) doesn't help any case here because the discussion is about how the new Polymorph spell interacts with the Concentration mechanic's updates, so only Concentration spells matter
-By your own interpretation, anything beyond the initial shift could also be interpreted as not being a spell effect. So the same logic could be used to deduce that the following line from Polymorph...
The target’s gear melds into the new form. The creature can’t use or otherwise benefit from any of that equipment.
... creates a permanent state where the equipment can't be used or otherwise benefited from ever again, because it's not what the spell is, it's what the spell does. If it's not, then you'll need to explain what the difference is between that and the Temp HP line.
I still don't see how you can keep choosing to go with the concentration rules when we get two contradicting rules. Temporary Hit Points, while true that they are called Temporary has mechanics on their own, and describes it's own duration. And this is extremely specific, and would therefore override any other rule.
up2ng also has a very good point about spell effects having a consequence on the world after the effects. Using your logic that any concentration spell that effects any in game mechanic, such as damage dealing and normal HP healing would then just disappear when the concentration drops.
I still don't see how you can keep choosing to go with the concentration rules when we get two contradicting rules. Temporary Hit Points, while true that they are called Temporary has mechanics on their own, and describes it's own duration. And this is extremely specific, and would therefore override any other rule.
up2ng also has a very good point about spell effects having a consequence on the world after the effects. Using your logic that any concentration spell that effects any in game mechanic, such as damage dealing and normal HP healing would then just disappear when the concentration drops.
The Concentration rule supercedes the Temporary Hit Points rule because this is a more specific case of their application. The Temporary Hit Points rule is a general rule, which is always beaten by exception cases.
Also, wrong. Damage and healing aren't the same because those are end results of the spell, not base effects. This is where his "what the spell effect is vs what the spell effect does" argument actually applies. I'll use Storm Sphere as an example.
Spell effects: Sphere of wind that batters entities inside and creates difficult terrain, ability for caster to strike with lightning as a BA
Spell results: Damage dealt by the spell
When concentration drops, the sphere of wind and the ability to use lightning are both lost.
Similarly, when Polymorph ends, all of its benefits and detriments (beast form, THP, melded gear) end all at once, as they're all persistent spell effects.
I still don't see how you can keep choosing to go with the concentration rules when we get two contradicting rules. Temporary Hit Points, while true that they are called Temporary has mechanics on their own, and describes it's own duration. And this is extremely specific, and would therefore override any other rule.
up2ng also has a very good point about spell effects having a consequence on the world after the effects. Using your logic that any concentration spell that effects any in game mechanic, such as damage dealing and normal HP healing would then just disappear when the concentration drops.
The Concentration rule supercedes the Temporary Hit Points rule because this is a more specific case of their application. The Temporary Hit Points rule is a general rule, which is always beaten by exception cases.
Also, wrong. Damage and healing aren't the same because those are end results of the spell, not base effects. This is where his "what the spell effect is vs what the spell effect does" argument actually applies. I'll use Storm Sphere as an example.
Spell effects: Sphere of wind that batters entities inside and creates difficult terrain, ability for caster to strike with lightning as a BA
Spell results: Damage dealt by the spell
When concentration drops, the sphere of wind and the ability to use lightning are both lost.
Similarly, when Polymorph ends, all of its benefits and detriments (beast form, THP, melded gear) end all at once, as they're all persistent spell effects.
Not really. The concentration rule is a general rule that determines when the effects of all concentration spells end. However, once Polymorph grants temporary hit points, they are governed by their own specific rule for duration ('until depleted or a long rest') because the spell description doesn’t specifically address the duration of temporary hit points. If it did, that would be more specific. In the sequence of events, the rules for temporary hit points apply after the concentration rules. And once granted, temporary hit points follow their own duration, independent of the concentration status of the spell.
I still don't see how you can keep choosing to go with the concentration rules when we get two contradicting rules. Temporary Hit Points, while true that they are called Temporary has mechanics on their own, and describes it's own duration. And this is extremely specific, and would therefore override any other rule.
up2ng also has a very good point about spell effects having a consequence on the world after the effects. Using your logic that any concentration spell that effects any in game mechanic, such as damage dealing and normal HP healing would then just disappear when the concentration drops.
The Concentration rule supercedes the Temporary Hit Points rule because this is a more specific case of their application. The Temporary Hit Points rule is a general rule, which is always beaten by exception cases.
Also, wrong. Damage and healing aren't the same because those are end results of the spell, not base effects. This is where his "what the spell effect is vs what the spell effect does" argument actually applies. I'll use Storm Sphere as an example.
Spell effects: Sphere of wind that batters entities inside and creates difficult terrain, ability for caster to strike with lightning as a BA
Spell results: Damage dealt by the spell
When concentration drops, the sphere of wind and the ability to use lightning are both lost.
Similarly, when Polymorph ends, all of its benefits and detriments (beast form, THP, melded gear) end all at once, as they're all persistent spell effects.
Not really. The concentration rule is a general rule that determines when the effects of all concentration spells end. However, once Polymorph grants temporary hit points, they are governed by their own specific rule for duration ('until depleted or a long rest') because the spell description doesn’t specifically address the duration of temporary hit points. If it did, that would be more specific. In the sequence of events, the rules for temporary hit points apply after the concentration rules. And once granted, temporary hit points follow their own duration, independent of the concentration status of the spell.
Concentration does supersede, because the THP is dependent of the action of shape-shifting into a Beast form, which has a duration. It doesn't need to state the obvious when you gain the THP depending of the form you choose, and if you don't choose a form, you gain nothing. People are misreading these lines because of a par break added for readability. What you're saying is that if WotC had written it like up2ng said (see below), then it's ok, but because it has a par break, then it's not.
"
You attempt to transform a creature that you can see within range into a Beast. The target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or shape-shift into Beast form for the duration. That form can be any Beast you choose that has a Challenge Rating equal to or less than the target’s (or the target’s level if it doesn’t have a Challenge Rating). The target’s game statistics are replaced by the stat block of the chosen Beast, but the target retains its alignment, personality, creature type, Hit Points, and Hit Point Dice. The target gains a number of Temporary Hit Points equal to the Hit Points of the Beast form.
The spell ends early on the target if it has no Temporary Hit Points left.
The target is limited in the actions it can perform by the anatomy of its new form, and it can’t speak or cast spells.
The target’s gear melds into the new form. The creature can’t use or otherwise benefit from any of that equipment.
"
But then again if you don't choose a form, you gain no THP, so it is not a separate effect from the shape-shift; otherwise, the THP would have given an X amount of THP based on a die--like False Life--or a flat X amount that didn't require a Beast form like with Power Word Fortify. Had the spell given the THP in this way, then RAW it would be a separate effect and it would follow the general rules of THP independent of Concentration. However, all of this is moot since the THP is conditional on the form you choose, which has a duration.
The THP is a result of the effect. When the rules mention that THP lasts until depleted or a long rest, it is a specific rule about their duration. In contrast, the concentration rules are about the spell’s magical effects themselves, not the duration of their consequences. You’re saying that because the THP depend on the Beast form from Polymorph, they should end with concentration. But if the rules intended this, it would need to explicitly state it in the spell description. Obviously your interpretation is RAI, but it's not RAW. (And I would also personally rule it RAI if this were to come up in my game)
Let’s consider Aura of Vitality. This spell requires concentration and allows healing 2d6 hit points to a creature in the area each turn. If we applied the same logic you’re using, that all effects of concentration spells end when concentration is broken, then the healing provided by Aura of Vitality would revert or disappear when concentration is lost. Clearly, this isn’t how the rules work; the healing remains once it’s applied.
The THP is a result of the effect. When the rules mention that THP lasts until depleted or a long rest, it is a specific rule about their duration. In contrast, the concentration rules are about the spell’s magical effects themselves, not the duration of their consequences. You’re saying that because the THP depend on the Beast form from Polymorph, they should end with concentration. But if the rules intended this, it would need to explicitly state it in the spell description. Obviously your interpretation is RAI, but it's not RAW. (And I would also personally rule it RAI if this were to come up in my game)
Let’s consider Aura of Vitality. This spell requires concentration and allows healing 2d6 hit points to a creature in the area each turn. If we applied the same logic you’re using, that all effects of concentration spells end when concentration is broken, then the healing provided by Aura of Vitality would revert or disappear when concentration is lost. Clearly, this isn’t how the rules work; the healing remains once it’s applied.
Restoring HP is not a temporary effect, so they are not lost. When you heal HP, you just gain those Hit Points back, period. Healing is a permanent effect created by the spell, while THP is a transient effect created by the spell. Those are some very different things. And again, you ignored the part where you only gain the THP when you select a Beast form, which has a duration; no Beast form selected, no THP. The point I am trying to make is, that Concentration wins specificity because THP is tied to a form with a duration that requires Concentration to maintain, regardless of the general THP rules.
And unless stated otherwise, Temporary Hit Points are only temporary in the sense of their duration. They're not necessarely temporary in a spell effect, unless a spell description specifies that it is.
-By your own interpretation, anything beyond the initial shift could also be interpreted as not being a spell effect. So the same logic could be used to deduce that the following line from Polymorph...
The target’s gear melds into the new form. The creature can’t use or otherwise benefit from any of that equipment.
... creates a permanent state where the equipment can't be used or otherwise benefited from ever again, because it's not what the spell is, it's what the spell does. If it's not, then you'll need to explain what the difference is between that and the Temp HP line.
This is actually correct. If a DM interprets this explanation about what happens to gear as NOT being a part of the shape-shift then we would run into the same problem and this would be a permanent result of the spell. In practice though, I think that in this context it's just a lot more obvious that this explanation of what happens to this gear is part of the shape-shift process, and the shape-shift explicitly only lasts "for the duration".
The problem is . . . this is less obvious for a feature such as a gain of temporary hit points with no further clarification. That's because there are all sorts of ways in the game that a creature can gain temporary hit points so the context here is less clear. It is reasonable to interpret the temporary hit points as being part of the shape-shift (which has a defined duration), but it is also reasonable to interpret the temporary hit points as an additional benefit of casting this spell that is separate from the shape-shift and in that case, there is no duration defined since this would be a result of the spell instead of being part of the ongoing spell effect.
Again, my own interpretation is that it IS part of the shape-shift, but I think that this should have been more explicitly written.
The Concentration rule supercedes the Temporary Hit Points rule because this is a more specific case of their application. The Temporary Hit Points rule is a general rule, which is always beaten by exception cases.
Similarly, when Polymorph ends, all of its benefits and detriments (beast form, THP, melded gear) end all at once, as they're all persistent spell effects.
Again, this is not at all a question about how Concentration works in 2024 or about whether or not concentration on the spell is lost. That ONLY applies if what you've said at the end there is true -- that the temporary HP is a persistent spell effect. But the temporary HP portion of the Polymorph spell is not written in a way that would imply that on its own.
If the temporary HP was meant to be its own persistent spell effect separate from the shape-shift then it would need more clarification beyond "the target gains temporary HP". Because that wording indicates this as being a permanent result of the spell rather than an ongoing spell effect. Instead, such a benefit could say something like "the target gains temporary HP for the duration of the spell. The spell ends early on the target if it has no Temporary Hit Points left and all unused temporary hit points are lost when the spell ends".
Because of how it was written, the only way that the temporary HP can be considered to be a persistent spell effect is if it is considered to be part of the shape-shift, because the shape-shift effect is explicitly ongoing, but only for the duration of the spell.
I believe that it is part of the shape-shift, but it should be clearer. If it was clear then these discussions on various forums wouldn't be happening, the Youtube videos wouldn't be published, and so on. So, something about how it is written is being interpreted in more than one way.
I'm not sure if this has been brought up yet, but one argument in favor of the temporary HP being considered to be part of the (temporary) shape-shift is this rule about shape-shifting in the Glossary:
Shape-Shifting
If an effect, such as Wild Shape or the Polymorph spell, lets you shape-shift, its description specifies what happens to you. Unless that description says otherwise, any ongoing effects on you—conditions, spells, curses, and the like—carry over from one form to the other. You revert to your true form if you die.
This would imply that all of the text within the Effect block of the Polymorph spell are not necessarily listing separate spell effects, but instead are descriptions of what happens to you when this particular spell causes you to shape-shift. It's still not really well defined where exactly the description of the shape-shift ends and where the rest of the spell description continues in cases like this, but at least it's something. I originally suggested that this would typically be done by creating a new paragraph, but that's not necessarily the case.
The target gains a number of Temporary Hit Points equal to the Hit Points of the Beast form.
Emphasis on equal.
This is exactly my point, you merely reinstated it. Your statement doesn't disprove what I said, merely reinforces it. You need to have selected a Beast form to gain THP equal to the HP of the Beast form; otherwise you gain nothing
The target gains a number of Temporary Hit Points equal to the Hit Points of the Beast form.
Emphasis on equal.
This is exactly my point, you merely reinstated it. Your statement doesn't disprove what I said, merely reinforces it. You need to have selected a Beast form to gain THP equal to the HP of the Beast form; otherwise you gain nothing
No, you're really mixing RAI with RAW here. Your mind is already set on that there's no difference between intent and literal meaning, so there's no reason to continue this conversation.
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However, CH7 says this regarding spell effects:
Concentration was changed a bit from 2014 version of Concentration, as it now specifies effects rather than just spells
Colossus on Discord posted this, which I believe explains it better than I could: "The temp HP from Polymorph is part of the spell's effect. A spell's duration is the length of time its effects last. So when the spell ends, either by losing concentration or by its duration running out, then the temp HP will go away. We can compare this to a spell like False Life, which has an instantaneous effect to grant temp HP. Because that spell is instantaneous, the temp hp that it grants is not tied to the spell's duration and does follow the normal temp hp rules of lasting until a long rest"
This person is completely wrong about how these things work unfortunately. There is no difference in the function of a spell effect that is instantaneous vs a spell effect that has a longer duration. In both cases, the spell effect does what it says.
From the Spells chapter we have this:
The ONLY thing that is specified here is the length of time that the spell effect exists. That's it. The spell's magic either appears only for a moment or it lasts for a time span specified in terms of rounds, minutes, hours, or the like. That's the only difference. While the spell effect exists, it is what it is, and it does what it says.
Now, the thing that confuses a lot of people is that a spell effect can cause a consequence that persists in the world well beyond the existence of the effect. The thing that happens to a creature or object when they interact with a spell effect is not the spell effect itself -- it's a consequence of interacting with the spell effect. This is the whole reason why an instantaneous spell effect can even do anything consequential in the first place. The actual spell effect exists only for a moment, but it can cause long lasting and devastating consequences.
For example, consider the spell Moonbeam. This spell has a duration of 1 minute. The actual spell effect that is created by casting this spell is a silvery beam of pale light that fills up a defined area (an AoE). However, there are consequences to a creature who interacts with this spell effect. Most notably, the spell effect causes damage. That damage causes the creature to lose hit points. Importantly, this damage does not last for only 1 minute. The damage is "permanent". After the duration of this spell effect expires and the spell effect itself ceases to exist from the world, the creature remains damaged. The fact that the creature now has fewer hit points is not magical in and of itself. It may have been caused by a magical effect, but this consequence itself is not magical. However, it is ongoing, persisting beyond the time span of the spell effect.
It's the same concept when a spell effect causes a creature to gain temporary hit points. The existence of the False Life spell actually confirms this. In that spell, the duration of the spell effect is instantaneous, but the spell description says that the creature gains temporary hit points. It does NOT say something like "the creature has temporary hit points for the duration". Instead, the spell effect causes the creature to gain temporary hit points. This is a permanent consequence of that spell, and the temporary hit points gained by that spell clearly follow the rules for the duration of temporary hit points, NOT the rules for the duration of a spell effect. In that case, the spell effect is the magical thing that exists only for a moment which interacts with a creature in such a way that it causes a permanent, non-magical consequence.
The same thing MIGHT be true of the Polymorph spell.
Again, it's not a question of how the concentration rules work or the length of the duration of the spell. The essential question is whether or not the gain of temporary hit points is a part of the description for what happens when the "shape-shift" process occurs -- which explicitly lasts only "for the duration". OR, is this gain of temporary hit points caused by a separate effect of the spell unrelated to the shape-shift process, and therefore persists beyond the duration? Since this is listed in a separate paragraph it might be more correct to interpret this as a separate effect, but it can reasonably be read either way.
In terms of the RAI, I do think that it clearly is meant to be part of the shape-shift process which expires when the shape-shift expires.
Looking at the text of Concentration in the new book and how Polymorph is written, I'd have to agree that RAW is you lose the temp HP at the end of the spell's duration. A spell's effect is the entire block of text. Therefore, because the temp HP is part of the effect of the spell, it should be lost when Concentration breaks.
This. People are just conveniently ignoring rules to make a point. Per CH7, A spell's effect is the entire description of the spell, and Concentration says: "Some spells and other effects require Concentration to remain active, as specified in their descriptions. If the effect’s creator loses Concentration, the effect ends."
The person is completely right based on what I just described above, which you conveniently ignored. Oh, and I like how you posted the Duration description from CH7 and conveniently left this one:
So, let me repeat this again, from the text:
The magic spell doesn't have to spell out that the temporary HP lasts for the duration, because it is part of an effect given by a spell that has a mechanical rule requirement (Concentration) to remain active, with a trigger that ends the effect built into the mechanical rule.
Then you go on to use the spell False Life as an example to prove a point, but your example is already flawed because False Life no longer has a Duration like in 2014 and was changed to just give the Temporary Hit Points; this is why False Life no longer specifies a duration. The spell effect is NOT the "magical thing that exists only for a moment" as you put it; the spell effect is gaining Temp HP per the Effects section of CH7--which I linked--which say The effects of a spell are detailed after its duration entry.
In the case of Polymorph, everything past the duration entry is the effect of the spell, including the temporary HP. The fact that each paragraph specifically references the form you gain should be proof enough that it's all tied to you shape-shifting, and the reason they're been separated is to have it cleanly organized. That's just basic writing.
So, based on everything I described above and linked, then "The temp HP from Polymorph is part of the spell's effect, so when the spell ends--either by losing concentration or by its duration running out--then the temp HP will go away.
This isn't exactly true. If the entire block of text ceases to have any meaning when the duration of a spell expires, then the functionality of virtually all spells would become broken. All instantaneous spells would essentially do nothing.
According to this interpretation, the False Life spell does nothing. You are granted temporary hit points for a brief moment and then they immediately vanish since the spell effect only exists instantaneously. That simply is not how the game works.
Look closely at how the spell effect of a spell is defined:
It doesn't say that the entire block of text IS the spell effect. It says that the entire spell effect is included in the block of text. But the block of text also contains other things. Most notably, it presents exactly what the spell DOES.
What a spell effect IS and what it DOES are two different things. This is explained at much greater length in my previous post. But a spell effect is a thing that exists in the environment for a certain period of time -- typically for the duration of the spell. When that spell effect interacts with the environment, it causes specifically defined consequences. Those consequences are not the spell effect itself -- those are what the spell effect DOES. Spells do what they say.
These consequences persist indefinitely unless the spell description says otherwise. That's why so many spell descriptions include the phrase "for the duration" somewhere within the text of the Effect block itself, even though this would appear redundant since the duration is already defined in the Duration block above. That is because the Duration of the spell defines how long the spell effect itself exists for. Any consequence that is caused by that spell effect must explicitly define its own duration.
In the case of the Polymorph spell, a spell effect is created that causes a creature to shape-shift "for the duration [of the spell]". This makes it clear that the shape-shift is tied to the ongoing existence of the spell effect. When the spell ends, the spell effect ends and therefore the shape-shift ends. The problem is that it's not clear if the temporary HP is part of the shape-shift or not and the temporary HP is also not given its own duration.
If it is determined that the temporary HP was not part of the shape-shift and the spell description does not specify a duration for the existence of the temporary HP that are gained as a consequence of this spell effect, then these temporary HP must persist beyond the duration of the spell.
There are tons of examples in the game that clearly illustrate the concept that I am talking about. Just look up any of the old threads that discuss the Detect Magic spell for particular situations. Perhaps a spell was cast that permanently altered an object somehow. But if you now cast Detect Magic on that object, it would not detect anything. The object isn't magical and there are no magical effects present. The spell effect which caused this alteration ceased to exist a long time ago.
Here's an easy example: The spell Create or Destroy Water
This spell has an instantaneous duration. By definition, the spell effect exists only for a moment. After casting the spell, there is 10 gallons of clean water in a container that wasn't there before. If you cast Detect Magic on that water, you would not detect anything magical. The water is not magical. There is no ongoing spell effect.
However, the text of the Effect block does say the following: "You create up to 10 gallons of clean water within range in an open container." But just because these words exist within that block of text doesn't mean that this IS the spell effect and therefore all of this vanishes when the spell expires. No. The spell effect is the thing that creates this water. That's what the spell effect DOES. The water is a consequence of the spell effect, and it persists and continues to exist long after the spell effect ceases to exist.
Another example: Power Word Stun
This spell has an instantaneous duration. The text in the effect block says: "it has the Stunned condition." but it does not specify a duration. Does this mean that this Condition IS the spell effect and therefore ceases to exist when the spell effect expires (instantaneously)? No. The spell effect caused the Stunned Condition as a consequence of interacting with the spell effect. In fact, this Condition is ongoing. Additional text explains that "The Stunned target makes a Constitution saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the condition on itself on a success." So, the target is Stunned for a period of time that is quite a bit longer than instantaneous, even though there is no longer any spell effect in existence.
As a matter of fact, while this creature continues to be Stunned round after round, there is actually nothing magical happening to that creature on an ongoing basis. It is simply Stunned and continues to be Stunned. The magical effect that caused this has ceased to exist long ago and there might be nothing magical anywhere in the nearby environment. So, even though the acquisition of the Stunned Condition is described in the text of the Effect block, continuing to be Stunned is not a magical effect.
This sort of thing, particularly as it relates to the Detect Magic spell, is confirmed all over the place by Sage Advice for those who care about such things.
What a willfully obtuse interpretation. The temp HP is part of the shape-shift since you gain them from the Beast stat block you select; so if you choose a Cat, you gain 13 THP, and if you choose a Dire Wolf, you gain 22 THP. If you choose nothing, you don't gain any temp HP. All paragraphs reference the Beast form you shape-shift into for each of their mechanical effects. How is this so utterly incomprehensible to you? Because it's in a separate paragraph? It's clean writing for ease of reading, otherwise you get this:
Does this change the meaning? No, but it's all mushed together and hard to read.
I agree with all of this, and I agree that this is the best interpretation for how Polymorph works. But the reason why has nothing to do with the rules for Concentration or the ending of the spell and its effect. It's because the temporary HP gain should be considered to be part of the process of the shape-shift which explicitly only lasts "for the duration".
But to make this more clear, my suggestion to the author would be to put that sentence into the same paragraph as the shape-shift procedure. Something like this:
"
You attempt to transform a creature that you can see within range into a Beast. The target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or shape-shift into Beast form for the duration. That form can be any Beast you choose that has a Challenge Rating equal to or less than the target’s (or the target’s level if it doesn’t have a Challenge Rating). The target’s game statistics are replaced by the stat block of the chosen Beast, but the target retains its alignment, personality, creature type, Hit Points, and Hit Point Dice. The target gains a number of Temporary Hit Points equal to the Hit Points of the Beast form.
The spell ends early on the target if it has no Temporary Hit Points left.
The target is limited in the actions it can perform by the anatomy of its new form, and it can’t speak or cast spells.
The target’s gear melds into the new form. The creature can’t use or otherwise benefit from any of that equipment.
"
. . .
The above is exactly as readable as the printed version -- it has the same number of paragraphs. It just properly delineates which statements are part of the shape-shift procedure and which are other aspects of the description of the spell.
As written, it is reasonable for a DM to read the spell and interpret the statement about the temporary HP gain to be a separate consequence of the spell effect from the shape-shift procedure. IF that happens, the only conclusion that such a DM can logically make is that those temporary hit points persist beyond the duration of the spell.
-Using False Life (or any other spell with an Instantaneous duration) doesn't help any case here because the discussion is about how the new Polymorph spell interacts with the Concentration mechanic's updates, so only Concentration spells matter
-By your own interpretation, anything beyond the initial shift could also be interpreted as not being a spell effect. So the same logic could be used to deduce that the following line from Polymorph...
... creates a permanent state where the equipment can't be used or otherwise benefited from ever again, because it's not what the spell is, it's what the spell does. If it's not, then you'll need to explain what the difference is between that and the Temp HP line.
I still don't see how you can keep choosing to go with the concentration rules when we get two contradicting rules. Temporary Hit Points, while true that they are called Temporary has mechanics on their own, and describes it's own duration. And this is extremely specific, and would therefore override any other rule.
up2ng also has a very good point about spell effects having a consequence on the world after the effects. Using your logic that any concentration spell that effects any in game mechanic, such as damage dealing and normal HP healing would then just disappear when the concentration drops.
The Concentration rule supercedes the Temporary Hit Points rule because this is a more specific case of their application. The Temporary Hit Points rule is a general rule, which is always beaten by exception cases.
Also, wrong. Damage and healing aren't the same because those are end results of the spell, not base effects. This is where his "what the spell effect is vs what the spell effect does" argument actually applies. I'll use Storm Sphere as an example.
Spell effects: Sphere of wind that batters entities inside and creates difficult terrain, ability for caster to strike with lightning as a BA
Spell results: Damage dealt by the spell
When concentration drops, the sphere of wind and the ability to use lightning are both lost.
Similarly, when Polymorph ends, all of its benefits and detriments (beast form, THP, melded gear) end all at once, as they're all persistent spell effects.
Not really. The concentration rule is a general rule that determines when the effects of all concentration spells end. However, once Polymorph grants temporary hit points, they are governed by their own specific rule for duration ('until depleted or a long rest') because the spell description doesn’t specifically address the duration of temporary hit points. If it did, that would be more specific. In the sequence of events, the rules for temporary hit points apply after the concentration rules. And once granted, temporary hit points follow their own duration, independent of the concentration status of the spell.
Concentration does supersede, because the THP is dependent of the action of shape-shifting into a Beast form, which has a duration. It doesn't need to state the obvious when you gain the THP depending of the form you choose, and if you don't choose a form, you gain nothing. People are misreading these lines because of a par break added for readability. What you're saying is that if WotC had written it like up2ng said (see below), then it's ok, but because it has a par break, then it's not.
But then again if you don't choose a form, you gain no THP, so it is not a separate effect from the shape-shift; otherwise, the THP would have given an X amount of THP based on a die--like False Life--or a flat X amount that didn't require a Beast form like with Power Word Fortify. Had the spell given the THP in this way, then RAW it would be a separate effect and it would follow the general rules of THP independent of Concentration. However, all of this is moot since the THP is conditional on the form you choose, which has a duration.
No, I don't think the par break matters at all.
The THP is a result of the effect. When the rules mention that THP lasts until depleted or a long rest, it is a specific rule about their duration. In contrast, the concentration rules are about the spell’s magical effects themselves, not the duration of their consequences. You’re saying that because the THP depend on the Beast form from Polymorph, they should end with concentration. But if the rules intended this, it would need to explicitly state it in the spell description. Obviously your interpretation is RAI, but it's not RAW. (And I would also personally rule it RAI if this were to come up in my game)
Let’s consider Aura of Vitality. This spell requires concentration and allows healing 2d6 hit points to a creature in the area each turn. If we applied the same logic you’re using, that all effects of concentration spells end when concentration is broken, then the healing provided by Aura of Vitality would revert or disappear when concentration is lost. Clearly, this isn’t how the rules work; the healing remains once it’s applied.
Restoring HP is not a temporary effect, so they are not lost. When you heal HP, you just gain those Hit Points back, period. Healing is a permanent effect created by the spell, while THP is a transient effect created by the spell. Those are some very different things. And again, you ignored the part where you only gain the THP when you select a Beast form, which has a duration; no Beast form selected, no THP. The point I am trying to make is, that Concentration wins specificity because THP is tied to a form with a duration that requires Concentration to maintain, regardless of the general THP rules.
The spell description regarding that says:
The target gains a number of Temporary Hit Points equal to the Hit Points of the Beast form.
Emphasis on equal.
And unless stated otherwise, Temporary Hit Points are only temporary in the sense of their duration. They're not necessarely temporary in a spell effect, unless a spell description specifies that it is.
This is actually correct. If a DM interprets this explanation about what happens to gear as NOT being a part of the shape-shift then we would run into the same problem and this would be a permanent result of the spell. In practice though, I think that in this context it's just a lot more obvious that this explanation of what happens to this gear is part of the shape-shift process, and the shape-shift explicitly only lasts "for the duration".
The problem is . . . this is less obvious for a feature such as a gain of temporary hit points with no further clarification. That's because there are all sorts of ways in the game that a creature can gain temporary hit points so the context here is less clear. It is reasonable to interpret the temporary hit points as being part of the shape-shift (which has a defined duration), but it is also reasonable to interpret the temporary hit points as an additional benefit of casting this spell that is separate from the shape-shift and in that case, there is no duration defined since this would be a result of the spell instead of being part of the ongoing spell effect.
Again, my own interpretation is that it IS part of the shape-shift, but I think that this should have been more explicitly written.
Again, this is not at all a question about how Concentration works in 2024 or about whether or not concentration on the spell is lost. That ONLY applies if what you've said at the end there is true -- that the temporary HP is a persistent spell effect. But the temporary HP portion of the Polymorph spell is not written in a way that would imply that on its own.
If the temporary HP was meant to be its own persistent spell effect separate from the shape-shift then it would need more clarification beyond "the target gains temporary HP". Because that wording indicates this as being a permanent result of the spell rather than an ongoing spell effect. Instead, such a benefit could say something like "the target gains temporary HP for the duration of the spell. The spell ends early on the target if it has no Temporary Hit Points left and all unused temporary hit points are lost when the spell ends".
Because of how it was written, the only way that the temporary HP can be considered to be a persistent spell effect is if it is considered to be part of the shape-shift, because the shape-shift effect is explicitly ongoing, but only for the duration of the spell.
I believe that it is part of the shape-shift, but it should be clearer. If it was clear then these discussions on various forums wouldn't be happening, the Youtube videos wouldn't be published, and so on. So, something about how it is written is being interpreted in more than one way.
I'm not sure if this has been brought up yet, but one argument in favor of the temporary HP being considered to be part of the (temporary) shape-shift is this rule about shape-shifting in the Glossary:
This would imply that all of the text within the Effect block of the Polymorph spell are not necessarily listing separate spell effects, but instead are descriptions of what happens to you when this particular spell causes you to shape-shift. It's still not really well defined where exactly the description of the shape-shift ends and where the rest of the spell description continues in cases like this, but at least it's something. I originally suggested that this would typically be done by creating a new paragraph, but that's not necessarily the case.
This is exactly my point, you merely reinstated it. Your statement doesn't disprove what I said, merely reinforces it. You need to have selected a Beast form to gain THP equal to the HP of the Beast form; otherwise you gain nothing
No, you're really mixing RAI with RAW here. Your mind is already set on that there's no difference between intent and literal meaning, so there's no reason to continue this conversation.