Basically, if I use Wish to cast a spell that normally requires concentration, do I still need to concentrate on it? The description says "If you use it this way, you don’t need to meet any requirements to cast that spell, including costly components. The spell simply takes effect." What I'm not sure, is if the concentration to maintain that spell active is included in the "any requirements to cast that spell".
I would say no. Concentration is not a requirement to cast a spell, concentrating is an effect of having cast - and then maintaining - a spell. Concentration is a requirement to keep a spell you have cast active, but not a requirement to cast a spell in the first place. Wish just allows you to bypass requirements to cast a spell, such as components or class restrictions.
If you use Wish to cast a spell, say Forcecage, the Verbal, Somatic, and Material components (including the costly ones that would normally be consumed by the spell), are no longer needed. You will still have to concentrate on the spell you cast if it requires concentration. Otherwise, this would allow a wizard to stack concentration spells like Forcecage and Incendiary Cloud on their own.
If you use Wish to cast a spell, say Forcecage, the Verbal, Somatic, and Material components (including the costly ones that would normally be consumed by the spell), are no longer needed. You will still have to concentrate on the spell you cast if it requires concentration. Otherwise, this would allow a wizard to stack concentration spells like Forcecage and Incendiary Cloud on their own.
Wish is the mightiest spell a mortal can cast. By simply speaking aloud, you can alter reality itself.
The basic use of this spell is to duplicate any other spell of level 8 or lower. If you use it this way, you don’t need to meet any requirements to cast that spell, including costly components. The spell simply takes effect.
The wording could benefit from being explicit about concentration, but I feel like concentration isn't a casting requirement so much as a requirement for maintaining a spell. That would not be changed by using wish to cast the spell. Wish has some pretty loose wording, though. A clear line to the target is also a casting requirement, and I don't feel like wish is meant to circumvent that.
EDIT: I should specify that I'm referring to the basic use of wish. If someone wants to use wish to cast forcecage without concentration, then I would allow it under the secondary use of the spell, along with everything that goes along with the secondary use of the spell.
Sadly I think the wording is too ambiguous to have a clear answer without an official ruling.
IMHO the too powerful argument doesn't hold water though, it's wish... it is supposed to be the most powerful thing in the game and it has interactions that are far more game breaking than not having to concentrate.
If you really want Wish to avoid concentration have it cast glyph of warding at 8th level and make the trigger condition on glyph of warding "do it right now". then it doesn't matter what the ruling is, it works albeit at the cost of a second spell slot. though you could argue that the second spell slot for the spell going into glyph of warding is also a cost of casting glyph of warding and so wish covers that too.
Sadly I think the wording is too ambiguous to have a clear answer without an official ruling.
IMHO the too powerful argument doesn't hold water though, it's wish... it is supposed to be the most powerful thing in the game and it has interactions that are far more game breaking than not having to concentrate.
If you really want Wish to avoid concentration have it cast glyph of warding at 8th level and make the trigger condition on glyph of warding "do it right now". then it doesn't matter what the ruling is, it works albeit at the cost of a second spell slot. though you could argue that the second spell slot for the spell going into glyph of warding is also a cost of casting glyph of warding and so wish covers that too.
RAW you can't use the baseline effect to upcast a spell- if you're casting a spell without a slot, then it's cast at level unless another effect specifically says otherwise. Now, you can try for the effect under stronger Wish option, but that's subject to DM adjudication and the other limitations.
And, it's not ambiguous because Concentration is an aspect of duration, which Wish does not interact with. Ergo, with no rules superseding it, the core Concentration rules remain.
Sadly I think the wording is too ambiguous to have a clear answer without an official ruling.
IMHO the too powerful argument doesn't hold water though, it's wish... it is supposed to be the most powerful thing in the game and it has interactions that are far more game breaking than not having to concentrate.
If you really want Wish to avoid concentration have it cast glyph of warding at 8th level and make the trigger condition on glyph of warding "do it right now". then it doesn't matter what the ruling is, it works albeit at the cost of a second spell slot. though you could argue that the second spell slot for the spell going into glyph of warding is also a cost of casting glyph of warding and so wish covers that too.
RAW you can't use the baseline effect to upcast a spell- if you're casting a spell without a slot, then it's cast at level unless another effect specifically says otherwise. Now, you can try for the effect under stronger Wish option, but that's subject to DM adjudication and the other limitations.
And, it's not ambiguous because Concentration is an aspect of duration, which Wish does not interact with. Ergo, with no rules superseding it, the core Concentration rules remain.
yeah, but you aren't casting without a spell slot, you are using a 9th level spell slot to cast wish. "The basic use of this spell is to duplicate any other spell of level 8 or lower. If you use it this way, you don’t need to meet any requirements to cast that spell, including costly components. The spell simply takes effect." up-casting a spell to 8th level is still casting any other spell of level 8 or lower. this isn't a feat that gives you a use of hex per day without using a spell slot. obviously you can argue that the interaction is the same, but I wouldn't. Here is where I would say reasonable parties should agree to disagree.
Sadly I think the wording is too ambiguous to have a clear answer without an official ruling.
IMHO the too powerful argument doesn't hold water though, it's wish... it is supposed to be the most powerful thing in the game and it has interactions that are far more game breaking than not having to concentrate.
If you really want Wish to avoid concentration have it cast glyph of warding at 8th level and make the trigger condition on glyph of warding "do it right now". then it doesn't matter what the ruling is, it works albeit at the cost of a second spell slot. though you could argue that the second spell slot for the spell going into glyph of warding is also a cost of casting glyph of warding and so wish covers that too.
RAW you can't use the baseline effect to upcast a spell- if you're casting a spell without a slot, then it's cast at level unless another effect specifically says otherwise. Now, you can try for the effect under stronger Wish option, but that's subject to DM adjudication and the other limitations.
And, it's not ambiguous because Concentration is an aspect of duration, which Wish does not interact with. Ergo, with no rules superseding it, the core Concentration rules remain.
yeah, but you aren't casting without a spell slot, you are using a 9th level spell slot to cast wish.
This is exactly why the spell duplication effect doesn't naturally upcast; the slot is being used to cast Wish, and then Wish duplicates the effect of another spell. And those upcast effects say "if this spell was cast with a higher level spell slot...". And they weren't. You specifically are not casting those other spells, they're taking effect. Ergo, upcast modifiers can't be applied.
This is exactly why the spell duplication effect doesn't naturally upcast; the slot is being used to cast Wish, and then Wish duplicates the effect of another spell. And those upcast effects say "if this spell was cast with a higher level spell slot...". And they weren't. You specifically are not casting those other spells, they're taking effect. Ergo, upcast modifiers can't be applied.
By RAW, I agree with your perspective, but Jeremy Crawford has expressed a differing interpretation.
Q: When Wish is used to duplicate a spell, can it be duplicated at a higher level? For example, a 7th level Banishing Smite to bypass Limited Magic Immunity.
A: A spell you duplicate with wish can be cast at a higher level, as long as that level is no higher than 8th.
I suspect this interaction reflects RAI, given that Wish is the most potent spell in the game.
This is exactly why the spell duplication effect doesn't naturally upcast; the slot is being used to cast Wish, and then Wish duplicates the effect of another spell. And those upcast effects say "if this spell was cast with a higher level spell slot...". And they weren't. You specifically are not casting those other spells, they're taking effect. Ergo, upcast modifiers can't be applied.
By RAW, I agree with your perspective, but Jeremy Crawford has expressed a differing interpretation.
Q: When Wish is used to duplicate a spell, can it be duplicated at a higher level? For example, a 7th level Banishing Smite to bypass Limited Magic Immunity.
A: A spell you duplicate with wish can be cast at a higher level, as long as that level is no higher than 8th.
I suspect this interaction reflects RAI, given that Wish is the most potent spell in the game.
I mean, if they wanted it to do that it could have been more explicit, so idk. JC's responses can be helpful, but he's given feedback that I've seen most users here decide isn't helpful or useful a few times, and at the end of the day anything that didn't make it into the books is ultimately a personal take. "Most potent spell in the game" only means so much in a system like this- it's very specifically written so its power is thoroughly circumscribed even in that context.
This is exactly why the spell duplication effect doesn't naturally upcast; the slot is being used to cast Wish, and then Wish duplicates the effect of another spell. And those upcast effects say "if this spell was cast with a higher level spell slot...". And they weren't. You specifically are not casting those other spells, they're taking effect. Ergo, upcast modifiers can't be applied.
By RAW, I agree with your perspective, but Jeremy Crawford has expressed a differing interpretation.
Q: When Wish is used to duplicate a spell, can it be duplicated at a higher level? For example, a 7th level Banishing Smite to bypass Limited Magic Immunity.
A: A spell you duplicate with wish can be cast at a higher level, as long as that level is no higher than 8th.
I suspect this interaction reflects RAI, given that Wish is the most potent spell in the game.
I mean, if they wanted it to do that it could have been more explicit, so idk. JC's responses can be helpful, but he's given feedback that I've seen most users here decide isn't helpful or useful a few times, and at the end of the day anything that didn't make it into the books is ultimately a personal take. "Most potent spell in the game" only means so much in a system like this- it's very specifically written so its power is thoroughly circumscribed even in that context.
Yes. If Wish stated *“it can replicate an 8th-level or lower spell slot to cast any spell of 8th level or lower”*, its interaction rules would likely be far clearer.
—Yet even then, whether the replicated spell belong to any class spell list remains another headache-inducing interaction.
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Basically, if I use Wish to cast a spell that normally requires concentration, do I still need to concentrate on it?
The description says "If you use it this way, you don’t need to meet any requirements to cast that spell, including costly components. The spell simply takes effect."
What I'm not sure, is if the concentration to maintain that spell active is included in the "any requirements to cast that spell".
I would say no. Concentration is not a requirement to cast a spell, concentrating is an effect of having cast - and then maintaining - a spell. Concentration is a requirement to keep a spell you have cast active, but not a requirement to cast a spell in the first place.
Wish just allows you to bypass requirements to cast a spell, such as components or class restrictions.
If you use Wish to cast a spell, say Forcecage, the Verbal, Somatic, and Material components (including the costly ones that would normally be consumed by the spell), are no longer needed. You will still have to concentrate on the spell you cast if it requires concentration. Otherwise, this would allow a wizard to stack concentration spells like Forcecage and Incendiary Cloud on their own.
I think this is the right answer.
EDIT: related thread: Wish, concentration, and saves - Rules & Game Mechanics
Thank you :)
The wording could benefit from being explicit about concentration, but I feel like concentration isn't a casting requirement so much as a requirement for maintaining a spell. That would not be changed by using wish to cast the spell. Wish has some pretty loose wording, though. A clear line to the target is also a casting requirement, and I don't feel like wish is meant to circumvent that.
EDIT: I should specify that I'm referring to the basic use of wish. If someone wants to use wish to cast forcecage without concentration, then I would allow it under the secondary use of the spell, along with everything that goes along with the secondary use of the spell.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Sadly I think the wording is too ambiguous to have a clear answer without an official ruling.
IMHO the too powerful argument doesn't hold water though, it's wish... it is supposed to be the most powerful thing in the game and it has interactions that are far more game breaking than not having to concentrate.
If you really want Wish to avoid concentration have it cast glyph of warding at 8th level and make the trigger condition on glyph of warding "do it right now". then it doesn't matter what the ruling is, it works albeit at the cost of a second spell slot. though you could argue that the second spell slot for the spell going into glyph of warding is also a cost of casting glyph of warding and so wish covers that too.
RAW you can't use the baseline effect to upcast a spell- if you're casting a spell without a slot, then it's cast at level unless another effect specifically says otherwise. Now, you can try for the effect under stronger Wish option, but that's subject to DM adjudication and the other limitations.
And, it's not ambiguous because Concentration is an aspect of duration, which Wish does not interact with. Ergo, with no rules superseding it, the core Concentration rules remain.
yeah, but you aren't casting without a spell slot, you are using a 9th level spell slot to cast wish. "The basic use of this spell is to duplicate any other spell of level 8 or lower. If you use it this way, you don’t need to meet any requirements to cast that spell, including costly components. The spell simply takes effect." up-casting a spell to 8th level is still casting any other spell of level 8 or lower. this isn't a feat that gives you a use of hex per day without using a spell slot. obviously you can argue that the interaction is the same, but I wouldn't. Here is where I would say reasonable parties should agree to disagree.
This is exactly why the spell duplication effect doesn't naturally upcast; the slot is being used to cast Wish, and then Wish duplicates the effect of another spell. And those upcast effects say "if this spell was cast with a higher level spell slot...". And they weren't. You specifically are not casting those other spells, they're taking effect. Ergo, upcast modifiers can't be applied.
By RAW, I agree with your perspective, but Jeremy Crawford has expressed a differing interpretation.
I suspect this interaction reflects RAI, given that Wish is the most potent spell in the game.
I mean, if they wanted it to do that it could have been more explicit, so idk. JC's responses can be helpful, but he's given feedback that I've seen most users here decide isn't helpful or useful a few times, and at the end of the day anything that didn't make it into the books is ultimately a personal take. "Most potent spell in the game" only means so much in a system like this- it's very specifically written so its power is thoroughly circumscribed even in that context.
Yes. If Wish stated *“it can replicate an 8th-level or lower spell slot to cast any spell of 8th level or lower”*, its interaction rules would likely be far clearer.
—Yet even then, whether the replicated spell belong to any class spell list remains another headache-inducing interaction.