Prerequisite: Level 5+ Warlock, Pact of the Chain Invocation
When you cast Find Familiar, you infuse the summoned familiar with a measure of your eldritch power, granting the creature the following benefits.
Aerial or Aquatic. The familiar gains either a Fly Speed or a Swim Speed (your choice) of 40 feet. If the familiar already has a fly speed of 30 feet, does it now have 40 feet or 70 feet?
Quick Attack. As a Bonus Action, you can command the familiar to take the Attack action. Does this cost the familiar its own action? Does the attack happen during the PC's turn or when its turn comes? And if its during the PC's turn, can the familiar move before doing the attack?
Necrotic or Radiant Damage. Whenever the familiar deals Bludgeoning, Piercing, or Slashing damage, you can make it deal Necrotic or Radiant damage instead.
Your Save DC. If the familiar forces a creature to make a saving throw, it uses your spell save DC.
Resistance. When the familiar takes damage, you can take a Reaction to grant it Resistance against that damage. Is this resistance granted before or after the familiar takes damage?
And finally, are all these benefits also granted when casting the spell Flock of Familiars?
Aerial or Aquatic. The familiar gains either a Fly Speed or a Swim Speed (your choice) of 40 feet. If the familiar already has a fly speed of 30 feet, does it now have 40 feet or 70 feet?
40 ft.
Quick Attack. As a Bonus Action, you can command the familiar to take the Attack action. Does this cost the familiar its own action? Does the attack happen during the PC's turn or when its turn comes? And if its during the PC's turn, can the familiar move before doing the attack?
The familiar takes the Attack action but it happens during your turn.
Resistance. When the familiar takes damage, you can take a Reaction to grant it Resistance against that damage. Is this resistance granted before or after the familiar takes damage?
I'd say it's during that specific moment. The important thing is that it has Resistance against that damage.
And finally, are all these benefits also granted when casting the spell Flock of Familiars?
I'd say no. According to the Eldritch Invocation: when you cast Find Familiar, you infuse the summoned familiar with a measure of your eldritch power.
Regarding Quick Attack, if I understand correctly, if I use my bonus action to make my familiar attack during my turn, it won't be able to attack when its own turn comes?
Regarding the last question, there might be more to it, because of this line in Flock of Familiars:
Each familiar uses the same rules and options for a familiar conjured by the find familiar spell.
As a Pact of Chain Warlock, these "rules and options" would include Pact of the Chain and Investment of the Chain Master for Find Familiar, correct? Therefore, shouldn't they also apply to Flock of Familiars?
I think that line is just saying you must use the rules included in the Find Familiar spell:
- A spirit that takes an animal form you choose - Appearing in an unoccupied space within range - Telepathic Connection - Combat - Disappearance of the Familiar - etc.
And not the rules from the Investment of the Chain Master.
Regarding Quick Attack, if I understand correctly, if I use my bonus action to make my familiar attack during my turn, it won't be able to attack when its own turn comes?
Regarding the last question, there might be more to it, because of this line in Flock of Familiars:
Each familiar uses the same rules and options for a familiar conjured by the find familiar spell.
As a Pact of Chain Warlock, these "rules and options" would include Pact of the Chain and Investment of the Chain Master for Find Familiar, correct? Therefore, shouldn't they also apply to Flock of Familiars?
That's for the actual familiar, but this refers to the spell itself.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Nothing goes over my head. My reflexes are to fast: I would catch it."
"I cannot comment on an ongoing investigation."
"Well of course I know that. What else is there? A kitten?"
"You'd like to think that, Wouldn't you?"
"A duck."
"What do you mean? An African or European swallow?"
Regarding Quick Attack, if I understand correctly, if I use my bonus action to make my familiar attack during my turn, it won't be able to attack when its own turn comes?
Normally, familiars summoned by Find Familiar cannot attack.
Yes, I'm asking this question in the context of the Pact of the Chain Warlock here :)
Yeah, I know. But that's the thing: a familiar can attack because you have the Pact of the Chain (you forgo one of your own attacks and the familiar makes one attack with its Reaction) or Investment of the Chain Master (following the rules you posted before).
Doesn't that contradict the fact that familiars can act on their own?
If they take a shape that can attack thanks to pact of the chain and can act on their own, why would they not attack if I telepathically instruct them to do so?
The way you say it, if I don't give my familiar any instructions, it won't be able to take any action granted by its form, because despite that form, it would somehow still be limited by the normal restrictions of find familiar.
Also, imps and quasits obtained in such a way can't become invisible, quasits can't scare or shapeshift either, because it's neither an attack action, nor something normally allowed by find familiar.
I think this completely defeats the point of pact of the chain.
Combat. The familiar is an ally to you and your allies. It rolls its own Initiative and acts on its own turn. A familiar can’t attack, but it can take other actions as normal.
So the familiar can take other actions, but only attack using the mentioned Invocations and following their specific rules.
I always considered that the "A familiar can't attack" bit was a consequence of the inoffensive form it must normally take. It's a restriction that made sense because the familiar can't attack, at all. But if the familiar takes the form of an Imp, that restriction doesn't make sense any more. The Imp has a stinger. I don't see why it would feel compelled not to use it if it has its own will. I would be surprised if such convoluted restrictions were the original intent behind pact of the chain.
Quick Attack. As a Bonus Action, you can command the familiar to take the Attack action. Does this cost the familiar its own action? Does the attack happen during the PC's turn or when its turn comes? And if its during the PC's turn, can the familiar move before doing the attack?
The familiar takes the Attack action but it happens during your turn.
I believe you can only move between attacks on your own turn, so if another creature on it's turn command the familiar to attack, it can't move this way because it's not the familiar's turn.
I always considered that the "A familiar can't attack" bit was a consequence of the inoffensive form it must normally take. It's a restriction that made sense because the familiar can't attack, at all. But if the familiar takes the form of an Imp, that restriction doesn't make sense any more. The Imp has a stinger. I don't see why it would feel compelled not to use it if it has its own will. I would be surprised if such convoluted restrictions were the original intent behind pact of the chain.
They really don't like to add additional attacks by additional creatures. So a familiar can't attack and when a Chainlock gets to break that rule it still costs them resources to get those additional attacks. It's nothing convoluted about it at all, it is a balance restriction (if it's needed or not is another discussion).
Quick Attack. As a Bonus Action, you can command the familiar to take the Attack action. Does this cost the familiar its own action? Does the attack happen during the PC's turn or when its turn comes? And if its during the PC's turn, can the familiar move before doing the attack?
The familiar takes the Attack action but it happens during your turn.
I believe you can only move between attacks on your own turn, so if another creature on it's turn command the familiar to attack, it can't move this way because it's not the familiar's turn.
They really don't like to add additional attacks by additional creatures. So a familiar can't attack and when a Chainlock gets to break that rule it still costs them resources to get those additional attacks. It's nothing convoluted about it at all, it is a balance restriction (if it's needed or not is another discussion).
I understand and I agree with you on that. What's bugging me is that if I understand TarodNet correctly, I can't otherwise tell my familiar "attack that enemy whenever you can" by simply instructing them to do so telepathically, so that they'll perform an attack when their turn comes. Telepathy is supposed to be free, the Chainlock's familiar are supposed to be able to attack, and as familiars they're still supposed to be able to act on their own.
I'm okay with the idea that if I make them use their reaction to do so during my turn by using one of my own attacks or bonus action, it should consume their own action in the process, but I don't see why I should be required to do so for them to be able to attack at all during the round. Do you see what I mean?
Because familiars can't otherwise attack, they can only do so from the space they occupy immediately when as Warlock you command them as a Bonus Action or allow them to do so with their Reaction when you take the Attack action and forgo one of your own attacks. It can't be postponed.
I understand and I agree with you on that. What's bugging me is that if I understand TarodNet correctly, I can't otherwise tell my familiar "attack that enemy whenever you can" by simply instructing them to do so telepathically, so that they'll perform an attack when their turn comes. Telepathy is supposed to be free, the Chainlock's familiar are supposed to be able to attack, and as familiars they're still supposed to be able to act on their own.
I'm okay with the idea that if I make them use their reaction to do so during my turn by using one of my own attacks or bonus action, it should consume their own action in the process, but I don't see why I should be required to do so for them to be able to attack at all during the round. Do you see what I mean?
Well no, a Chainlock's familiar is supposed to be able to attack only when you spend a resource to allow them to do so, otherwise they abide by the same restrictions as other familiars do. And as you can't spend either of those resources (an attack or a Bonus Action) during their turn then the familiar cannot attack during its own turn.
Also I don't see anything that makes either way of allowing them to attack consume their Action. You spending an attack makes them spend their reaction (which competes with other things they could spend a reaction on) to make one attack and you spending your Bonus Action makes them take the Attack Action but this is all outside of their turn so they will still have all their actions available to them when their turn comes around.
I'm looking at the feature description. Do we know for a fact that this attack action happens on your turn? Because when you typically tell a familiar to take an action, you essentially queue the command and it takes place on the familiar's turn, right?
EDIT: The name quick attack makes me think it happens immediately. Even so, I don't think this feature would allow the familiar the benefit of the Multiattack action anyway, since Multiattack is not the same as the attack action. Since there's only one attack, there's no problem with moving between attacks.
Investment of the Chain Master
Prerequisite: Level 5+ Warlock, Pact of the Chain Invocation
When you cast Find Familiar, you infuse the summoned familiar with a measure of your eldritch power, granting the creature the following benefits.
Aerial or Aquatic. The familiar gains either a Fly Speed or a Swim Speed (your choice) of 40 feet.
If the familiar already has a fly speed of 30 feet, does it now have 40 feet or 70 feet?
Quick Attack. As a Bonus Action, you can command the familiar to take the Attack action.
Does this cost the familiar its own action? Does the attack happen during the PC's turn or when its turn comes? And if its during the PC's turn, can the familiar move before doing the attack?
Necrotic or Radiant Damage. Whenever the familiar deals Bludgeoning, Piercing, or Slashing damage, you can make it deal Necrotic or Radiant damage instead.
Your Save DC. If the familiar forces a creature to make a saving throw, it uses your spell save DC.
Resistance. When the familiar takes damage, you can take a Reaction to grant it Resistance against that damage.
Is this resistance granted before or after the familiar takes damage?
And finally, are all these benefits also granted when casting the spell Flock of Familiars?
40 ft.
The familiar takes the Attack action but it happens during your turn.
If the familiar has Multiattack,
it can(EDIT: sorry, it cannot! see explanation below) move between those attacks: 2024 Moving between Attacks - Rules & Game MechanicsI'd say it's during that specific moment. The important thing is that it has Resistance against that damage.
I'd say no. According to the Eldritch Invocation: when you cast Find Familiar, you infuse the summoned familiar with a measure of your eldritch power.
Thank you for the replies :)
Regarding Quick Attack, if I understand correctly, if I use my bonus action to make my familiar attack during my turn, it won't be able to attack when its own turn comes?
Regarding the last question, there might be more to it, because of this line in Flock of Familiars:
As a Pact of Chain Warlock, these "rules and options" would include Pact of the Chain and Investment of the Chain Master for Find Familiar, correct?
Therefore, shouldn't they also apply to Flock of Familiars?
I think that line is just saying you must use the rules included in the Find Familiar spell:
- A spirit that takes an animal form you choose
- Appearing in an unoccupied space within range
- Telepathic Connection
- Combat
- Disappearance of the Familiar
- etc.
And not the rules from the Investment of the Chain Master.
Also, the Flock of Familiars spell states:
That's for the actual familiar, but this refers to the spell itself.
Extended signature
Got it, thank you :)
Normally, familiars summoned by Find Familiar cannot attack.
Unless you have a clever Warlock in your team!
Yes, I'm asking this question in the context of the Pact of the Chain Warlock here :)
Yeah, I know. But that's the thing: a familiar can attack because you have the Pact of the Chain (you forgo one of your own attacks and the familiar makes one attack with its Reaction) or Investment of the Chain Master (following the rules you posted before).
Doesn't that contradict the fact that familiars can act on their own?
If they take a shape that can attack thanks to pact of the chain and can act on their own, why would they not attack if I telepathically instruct them to do so?
The way you say it, if I don't give my familiar any instructions, it won't be able to take any action granted by its form, because despite that form, it would somehow still be limited by the normal restrictions of find familiar.
Also, imps and quasits obtained in such a way can't become invisible, quasits can't scare or shapeshift either, because it's neither an attack action, nor something normally allowed by find familiar.
I think this completely defeats the point of pact of the chain.
This is the general rule for familiars:
So the familiar can take other actions, but only attack using the mentioned Invocations and following their specific rules.
I always considered that the "A familiar can't attack" bit was a consequence of the inoffensive form it must normally take.
It's a restriction that made sense because the familiar can't attack, at all.
But if the familiar takes the form of an Imp, that restriction doesn't make sense any more.
The Imp has a stinger. I don't see why it would feel compelled not to use it if it has its own will.
I would be surprised if such convoluted restrictions were the original intent behind pact of the chain.
I believe you can only move between attacks on your own turn, so if another creature on it's turn command the familiar to attack, it can't move this way because it's not the familiar's turn.
They really don't like to add additional attacks by additional creatures. So a familiar can't attack and when a Chainlock gets to break that rule it still costs them resources to get those additional attacks. It's nothing convoluted about it at all, it is a balance restriction (if it's needed or not is another discussion).
Ups, yeah totally true, sorry!
I agree.
Thanks again for your correction, Plague.
I've just updated my previous answer.
I understand and I agree with you on that. What's bugging me is that if I understand TarodNet correctly, I can't otherwise tell my familiar "attack that enemy whenever you can" by simply instructing them to do so telepathically, so that they'll perform an attack when their turn comes. Telepathy is supposed to be free, the Chainlock's familiar are supposed to be able to attack, and as familiars they're still supposed to be able to act on their own.
I'm okay with the idea that if I make them use their reaction to do so during my turn by using one of my own attacks or bonus action, it should consume their own action in the process, but I don't see why I should be required to do so for them to be able to attack at all during the round. Do you see what I mean?
Because familiars can't otherwise attack, they can only do so from the space they occupy immediately when as Warlock you command them as a Bonus Action or allow them to do so with their Reaction when you take the Attack action and forgo one of your own attacks. It can't be postponed.
Well no, a Chainlock's familiar is supposed to be able to attack only when you spend a resource to allow them to do so, otherwise they abide by the same restrictions as other familiars do. And as you can't spend either of those resources (an attack or a Bonus Action) during their turn then the familiar cannot attack during its own turn.
Also I don't see anything that makes either way of allowing them to attack consume their Action. You spending an attack makes them spend their reaction (which competes with other things they could spend a reaction on) to make one attack and you spending your Bonus Action makes them take the Attack Action but this is all outside of their turn so they will still have all their actions available to them when their turn comes around.
I'm looking at the feature description. Do we know for a fact that this attack action happens on your turn? Because when you typically tell a familiar to take an action, you essentially queue the command and it takes place on the familiar's turn, right?
EDIT: The name quick attack makes me think it happens immediately. Even so, I don't think this feature would allow the familiar the benefit of the Multiattack action anyway, since Multiattack is not the same as the attack action. Since there's only one attack, there's no problem with moving between attacks.
Or am I just completely off-base here?
"Not all those who wander are lost"