Running curse of strahd and have another rule I need some guidance on. One of my players was bit by a werewolf and hid the curse from the other players he wants to embrace the curse and after the third night I told him."you can embrace it and become evil or resist it until you find a cure" he said he wanted to embrace it and he has the argument that I should not take his player over as a npc because he can learn to harness the power and be aware of his friends and foes. So 1.) I see this as you are now willing to murder and eat people and do evil things with the mind set that oh this is okay. 2.) You now are immune to nonsilvered non magical wepons?!? And still think I'm going to let you roam as a pc?!? 3.)the other pc's are goodly aligned players and are only in berovia for a search and rescue mission.
So my question is, should I of just took the player sheet and been like "make a new hero, yours is now evil and skulking in the woods", or let this guy become broken and allow him to not be harmed by almost any other encounters?!?.
Precise details about this and how to handle it is in Monster Manual, page 206. The next page also has boxed text about how to handle PCs with such (and the traits they gain).
In general: it's a curse; it can be removed by Remove Curse if it was inflicted on you (or not - the DM may decide something more complex). It's much harder if you were born a lycanthrope.
On resisting or submitting: Resisting lets you keep your alignment and mind, but you have the typical horror movie handling of full moons. Submitting will eventually let you control your shapeshifting, but will deteriorate your alignment.
Sidenote: Lycanthropes are susceptible to magical or silvered weapons. A weapon doesn't need to be both to bypass their immunity.
What's going to happen the first time the PC's catch him changing into a bloodthirsty beast who's controlled by you whose first act is attacking them? I can see the other PC's knocking him down to 0 HP without killing him, tying him up, and taking him to a Cleric to get the Remove Curse cast on him no matter what he wants.
What's going to happen the first time the PC's catch him changing into a bloodthirsty beast who's controlled by you whose first act is attacking them? I can see the other PC's knocking him down to 0 HP without killing him, tying him up, and taking him to a Cleric to get the Remove Curse cast on him no matter what he wants.
Yeah I would do exactly that. However, resolving the curse with the spell Remove curse seems to easy: it is just a 3rd level spell after all. To add tension, I'd say you need Greater restoration.
I've been meaning to reply to this for a while but it has been one hell of a week.
This is a tough situation to be in as the player can take it kind of personally if you don't let him keep his PC but man he's a monster now. The MM clearly states his alignment changes to match the monster entry because of all the things he is now willing to do as you stated. If he tries to fight it then I'd still rule that the PC falls under your control while he is shifted during the full moon. Classic horror story stuff.
You are free to make your own decisions about how to remove the curse. I've never heard that killing the Alpha removes the curse (as filcat mentioned) Not in Classic horror anyway. The closest analog I recall is that when someone is turned into a vampire (spawn they call them these days) they are under the control of the vampire that turned them. Killing the boss vampire freed them from the thrall but did not remove vampirism. Many vampires of old used adventuring parties to kill their creator thus freeing themselves to do all the awful things they want!A good twist if you want to use it in a game.
I'm interested in hearing how it goes. Keep us informed.
No stress. I wasn't caling you out just stating that was a new to me though it sounded similar to the vampire theme I mentioned. It's been a long time since Baldur's Gate for me... time for a revisit I guess. Ha!
It's fine to let him keep his character sheet. When he transforms make a big spectacle of it and tell him he now has to attack anything and everything close to him, and if he doesn't then take over and turn it into a NPC. The other players will quickly take care of the problem.
I would just say flat out that is welcome to attempt to resist the curse, but if he chooses to accept it, then his Character becomes an NPC until the curse is broken. His alignment changes to Chaotic Evil. If he still demands to play the character and you really don't want to fight him over it, then demand that he play the character as Chaotic Evil. A chaotic evil character shouldn't be having friends and his new alignment should manifest itself in the game, i.e. he can't continue to play the PC as if nothing happened. So tell him straight up he is going to have to play the PC as Chaotic Evil or the Pc will become an NPC.
This is where it gets more fun from a DM perspective. He is Chaotic Evil! This means any spells or abilities that would detect evil, detect him. Don't go right after him the next game session, give it some time, but If at any point the PCs find out his new nature, remind them that as good characters they don't have the option of simply letting him be, they either must cure him or kill him. If he is a cleric or paladin, simply state that he has lost connection to his god and no longer has access to spells. If he is a Paladin tell him to convert his PC to the Oathbreaker class in the DMG. If he is a cleric he may find other means for spells (i.e. worshiping an evil deity). Read the adventure to learn where his Chaotic Evil nature may come into play.
Let him take no damage. After an encounter or two the other PCs are probably going to be the jerks for you, as they are going to get tired of him basically being untouchable. Eventually have the town guard with a cleric approach the PCs to arrest them and slay the evil beast. The cleric has Pelor's symbol or another deity that is easily identifiable for the PCs to get the point. You can even have an opposing werewolf (who wants vengeance on them for slaying his kin) being the one that tipped the cleric off.
Alternatively you can have any werewolfs that the PCs come into contact with call the PC a traitor. Try your best to make everything story driven and not just going after him.
Remind him that his party has a cleric/paldin/etc. that if they discover his evil nature, they will be obligated to slay him or cure him and as a Chaotic Evil person, there is simply no way he could be friends with a Cleric/Paladin of a lawful good deity. Tell the other players they have your blessing to end his life the moment they realize he is evil. Most importantly they aren't allowed to simply ignore it.
I would likely ignore this all this and just flat out tell him that if he chooses to embrace it, then he needs to make a new PC. Or he can fight it and still play his PC.
So what I have come up with is very similar to what you are all talking about, he has embraced it and I told him he felt the urge to change happening so he ran the hero to the woods outside of town and continued with the tranaformation.
He did nothave control or any memory of what happened while in the transformed shape but he wakes with a level of exhaustion and no benefits from a short or long rest ( huge because he's a sorc) now he has the option to try and shape gift but it's a huge hurdle because he has not "mastered" this feat and will take months/years to figure out but once he has mastered it he will be aware of himself and control in wolf/hybrid form. Also until he masters the lycanthropy he is only resistent not immune to non magical and silvered wepons.
You could force him into making a willpower saving throw ever day in order to attempt to keep his allignment. The curse might gradually change him and so each day the check would get worse until it completely changed him over after x number of failures. After x number of success maybe he has a sort of control. This way it would be giving the player a chance instead of just giving him an ultimatum. Players tend to not like you forcing them into a straight path of yes or no. If instead it becomes just a series of rolls they tend to blame the dice instead of you as DM.
So what I have come up with is very similar to what you are all talking about, he has embraced it and I told him he felt the urge to change happening so he ran the hero to the woods outside of town and continued with the tranaformation.
He did nothave control or any memory of what happened while in the transformed shape but he wakes with a level of exhaustion and no benefits from a short or long rest ( huge because he's a sorc) now he has the option to try and shape gift but it's a huge hurdle because he has not "mastered" this feat and will take months/years to figure out but once he has mastered it he will be aware of himself and control in wolf/hybrid form. Also until he masters the lycanthropy he is only resistent not immune to non magical and silvered wepons.
Largely I feel that this only postpones the inevitable. I mean I doubt you can spend the entire campaign claiming he hasn't mastered the transformation yet. And if you allow him to play the PC up to that point, it will be harder to claim he should give the PC up after all that investment.
You could force him into making a willpower saving throw ever day in order to attempt to keep his allignment. The curse might gradually change him and so each day the check would get worse until it completely changed him over after x number of failures. After x number of success maybe he has a sort of control. This way it would be giving the player a chance instead of just giving him an ultimatum. Players tend to not like you forcing them into a straight path of yes or no. If instead it becomes just a series of rolls they tend to blame the dice instead of you as DM.
As I understand it that was an option, but the player flat out said he wanted to embrace the curse and therefore not resist it in any way. Basically the player just wanted to become game broken and immune to all damage, except magical/silver.
Whether the character resists the curse or not has no effect on the statistics - the only difference it makes is that those who suppress the urge retain their alignment and only change when forced to at the full moon. Those who don't resist can, according to the monster manual:
"...with time and experience, they learn to master their shapechanging ability and can assume beat form or hybrid form at will. Most lycanthropes that embrace their bestial natures succumb to bloodlust, becoming evil, opportunistic creatures that prey on the weak."
With regards stats:
A character who becomes a lycanthrope retains his or her statistics except as specified by lycanthrope type. The character gains the lycanthrope's speeds in non-humanoid form, damage immunities, traits, and actions that don't involve equipment.
Looking at that sentence in more detail, that means, for a Werewolf:
The speed thing = they have 40ft move in wolf form.
Damage immunities = immune to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from non-magical attacks not made with silver weapons (basically, you need a magic weapon or silver weapon to hurt it). This applies to all forms, including humanoid.
Traits = Keen hearing and smell -> advantage on perception checks in all forms.
Actions = no effect. The multi-attack with spear is with an equipment item, so not gained, as per the quote above.
You're still dealing with a PC who is immune to most melee damage though, whether they resist or not.
So, when a player decide that his/her character embrace lycanthropy, it is like he/her acts under the influence of the spell Suggestion from the DM.
Its more they are chaotic evil and behave like a chaotic evil being would. I get the impression this particular PC wants the benefits (virtual immunity) without the penalties. It is because of the chaotic evil nature that typically the pc would no longer remain under the players control.
With a player who knows this and will roleplay it and a group who won't hold any hard feelings toward the player for actions taken (and thus will embrace his new character with open arms) then it could make a good roleplaying situation for a couple of game sessions as everyone discovers his new nature. Then a quest can begin to save the PC.
Turning evil is different than becoming a bloodthirsty homicidal maniac.
A character may be sneaky, insidious or selfish and that makes him evil. But the goals of both the character and the party may be the same and for a limited time, they tolerate each other. Being good aligned is not "bash all evil and purge corruption!" kind of attitude. It doesn't have to end in bloodshed.
That being said, there are few work arounds for the situation, I believe. Maybe the party will think it's getting out of hand and force the werewolf for a cure. Or it transforms to a werewolf only once a moon and when it happens, he becomes an NPC.
Running curse of strahd and have another rule I need some guidance on. One of my players was bit by a werewolf and hid the curse from the other players he wants to embrace the curse and after the third night I told him."you can embrace it and become evil or resist it until you find a cure" he said he wanted to embrace it and he has the argument that I should not take his player over as a npc because he can learn to harness the power and be aware of his friends and foes. So 1.) I see this as you are now willing to murder and eat people and do evil things with the mind set that oh this is okay. 2.) You now are immune to nonsilvered non magical wepons?!? And still think I'm going to let you roam as a pc?!? 3.)the other pc's are goodly aligned players and are only in berovia for a search and rescue mission.
So my question is, should I of just took the player sheet and been like "make a new hero, yours is now evil and skulking in the woods", or let this guy become broken and allow him to not be harmed by almost any other encounters?!?.
Thanks p.s. first campaign I have ran
I would allow him to find a cure. you might have to kill the Alpha werewolf. Dont remember if greater restoration works as well.
But it is a nice sidequest
Precise details about this and how to handle it is in Monster Manual, page 206. The next page also has boxed text about how to handle PCs with such (and the traits they gain).
In general: it's a curse; it can be removed by Remove Curse if it was inflicted on you (or not - the DM may decide something more complex). It's much harder if you were born a lycanthrope.
On resisting or submitting: Resisting lets you keep your alignment and mind, but you have the typical horror movie handling of full moons. Submitting will eventually let you control your shapeshifting, but will deteriorate your alignment.
Sidenote: Lycanthropes are susceptible to magical or silvered weapons. A weapon doesn't need to be both to bypass their immunity.
What's going to happen the first time the PC's catch him changing into a bloodthirsty beast who's controlled by you whose first act is attacking them? I can see the other PC's knocking him down to 0 HP without killing him, tying him up, and taking him to a Cleric to get the Remove Curse cast on him no matter what he wants.
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I've been meaning to reply to this for a while but it has been one hell of a week.
This is a tough situation to be in as the player can take it kind of personally if you don't let him keep his PC but man he's a monster now. The MM clearly states his alignment changes to match the monster entry because of all the things he is now willing to do as you stated. If he tries to fight it then I'd still rule that the PC falls under your control while he is shifted during the full moon. Classic horror story stuff.
You are free to make your own decisions about how to remove the curse. I've never heard that killing the Alpha removes the curse (as filcat mentioned) Not in Classic horror anyway. The closest analog I recall is that when someone is turned into a vampire (spawn they call them these days) they are under the control of the vampire that turned them. Killing the boss vampire freed them from the thrall but did not remove vampirism. Many vampires of old used adventuring parties to kill their creator thus freeing themselves to do all the awful things they want!A good twist if you want to use it in a game.
I'm interested in hearing how it goes. Keep us informed.
My idea of killing the Alpha was just an homebrew suggestion for making a quest more "questable". I got that from Baldur's Gate (the videogame).
But yeah, the official way to solve the curve is with the spell Remove curse.
No stress. I wasn't caling you out just stating that was a new to me though it sounded similar to the vampire theme I mentioned. It's been a long time since Baldur's Gate for me... time for a revisit I guess. Ha!
It's fine to let him keep his character sheet. When he transforms make a big spectacle of it and tell him he now has to attack anything and everything close to him, and if he doesn't then take over and turn it into a NPC. The other players will quickly take care of the problem.
I would just say flat out that is welcome to attempt to resist the curse, but if he chooses to accept it, then his Character becomes an NPC until the curse is broken. His alignment changes to Chaotic Evil. If he still demands to play the character and you really don't want to fight him over it, then demand that he play the character as Chaotic Evil. A chaotic evil character shouldn't be having friends and his new alignment should manifest itself in the game, i.e. he can't continue to play the PC as if nothing happened. So tell him straight up he is going to have to play the PC as Chaotic Evil or the Pc will become an NPC.
This is where it gets more fun from a DM perspective. He is Chaotic Evil! This means any spells or abilities that would detect evil, detect him. Don't go right after him the next game session, give it some time, but If at any point the PCs find out his new nature, remind them that as good characters they don't have the option of simply letting him be, they either must cure him or kill him. If he is a cleric or paladin, simply state that he has lost connection to his god and no longer has access to spells. If he is a Paladin tell him to convert his PC to the Oathbreaker class in the DMG. If he is a cleric he may find other means for spells (i.e. worshiping an evil deity). Read the adventure to learn where his Chaotic Evil nature may come into play.
Let him take no damage. After an encounter or two the other PCs are probably going to be the jerks for you, as they are going to get tired of him basically being untouchable. Eventually have the town guard with a cleric approach the PCs to arrest them and slay the evil beast. The cleric has Pelor's symbol or another deity that is easily identifiable for the PCs to get the point. You can even have an opposing werewolf (who wants vengeance on them for slaying his kin) being the one that tipped the cleric off.
Alternatively you can have any werewolfs that the PCs come into contact with call the PC a traitor. Try your best to make everything story driven and not just going after him.
Remind him that his party has a cleric/paldin/etc. that if they discover his evil nature, they will be obligated to slay him or cure him and as a Chaotic Evil person, there is simply no way he could be friends with a Cleric/Paladin of a lawful good deity. Tell the other players they have your blessing to end his life the moment they realize he is evil. Most importantly they aren't allowed to simply ignore it.
I would likely ignore this all this and just flat out tell him that if he chooses to embrace it, then he needs to make a new PC. Or he can fight it and still play his PC.
Also remember intellegent monsters will retreat once they realize they can't damage the pc.
So what I have come up with is very similar to what you are all talking about, he has embraced it and I told him he felt the urge to change happening so he ran the hero to the woods outside of town and continued with the tranaformation.
He did nothave control or any memory of what happened while in the transformed shape but he wakes with a level of exhaustion and no benefits from a short or long rest ( huge because he's a sorc) now he has the option to try and shape gift but it's a huge hurdle because he has not "mastered" this feat and will take months/years to figure out but once he has mastered it he will be aware of himself and control in wolf/hybrid form. Also until he masters the lycanthropy he is only resistent not immune to non magical and silvered wepons.
You could force him into making a willpower saving throw ever day in order to attempt to keep his allignment. The curse might gradually change him and so each day the check would get worse until it completely changed him over after x number of failures. After x number of success maybe he has a sort of control. This way it would be giving the player a chance instead of just giving him an ultimatum. Players tend to not like you forcing them into a straight path of yes or no. If instead it becomes just a series of rolls they tend to blame the dice instead of you as DM.
So, when a player decide that his/her character embrace lycanthropy, it is like he/her acts under the influence of the spell Suggestion from the DM.
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D&D Beyond FoundersWhether the character resists the curse or not has no effect on the statistics - the only difference it makes is that those who suppress the urge retain their alignment and only change when forced to at the full moon. Those who don't resist can, according to the monster manual:
With regards stats:
Looking at that sentence in more detail, that means, for a Werewolf:
You're still dealing with a PC who is immune to most melee damage though, whether they resist or not.
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Turning evil is different than becoming a bloodthirsty homicidal maniac.
A character may be sneaky, insidious or selfish and that makes him evil. But the goals of both the character and the party may be the same and for a limited time, they tolerate each other. Being good aligned is not "bash all evil and purge corruption!" kind of attitude. It doesn't have to end in bloodshed.
That being said, there are few work arounds for the situation, I believe. Maybe the party will think it's getting out of hand and force the werewolf for a cure. Or it transforms to a werewolf only once a moon and when it happens, he becomes an NPC.
I was assuming a bit of house brewing to allow the PC to retain his character by resisting the entire transformation until cured.