Ok, so the rules are somewhat ambiguous to me on this issue, so I'm looking for clarification:
Let's take Agonizing Blast as an example. The invocation says:
Choose one of your known Warlock cantrips that deals damage. You can add your Charisma modifier to that spell's damage rolls.
Repeatable. You can gain this invocation more than once. Each time you do so, choose a different eligible can.trip.
Ok, so let's say I take Booming Blade as a cantrip and then I take Agonizing Blast to work with Booming Blade. This is very clear. It's allowed since Booming Blade is a Warlock cantrip.
Then, let's say later on, I want to use Agonizing Blast with Eldritch Blast instead of Booming Blade. How do I do this? The rules aren't very clear. Do I have to take Agonizing Blast as an invocation again? Do I have to "forget" Booming Blade to use the invocation with a different cantrip? Do I just stop using Agonizing Blast when I cast Booming Blade and only use it when I cast Eldritch Blast? What's the mechanism here for switching the cantrip the Invocation is used with?
It gets more complicated if you have more Invocations tied to the same cantrip. For example, both Agonizing Blast and Repelling Blast.
Depending on the build, at some point it's not advantageous to keep using Booming Blade. For example, when getting Extra Attack (whether by multiclassing or taking the Thirsting Blade invocation). It seems like a waste to have Invocations on a cantrip no longer being used, and I would probably want to switch things around. But, what's the mechanism, according to the rules, for doing this? Or is this one of those things that's "entirely up to the DM"?
When you take the invocation again, you choose another cantrip to use it with. Now you have two cantrips that you're using it with. You don't have to get rid of the other one; that's why it's labeled as "repeatable".
The Eldritch Invocations feature allows you to swap out one invocation you have for another one whenever you gain a Warlock level. Although it doesn't explicitly say that you can use this to swap the cantrip on Agonizing Blast or a similar invocation, I think that's how pretty much everyone interprets it.
It should be noted that, as of this writing, D&D Beyond's character builder doesn't actually support any of this functionality — it doesn't allow you to take any of these invocations more than once, nor select which cantrip to use them with — so you have to track it yourself separately. This is a bit of a sore spot for a lot of people as it has been almost a year since this content was released and this is a pretty foundational part of the class that just doesn't work.
It says it’s repeatable and you need to take it again to choose a different cantrip. Ergo, each pick is “locked in”, although I suppose you could use the option to exchange an Invocation when you level up to shift it from one cantrip to another.
Note that the way cantrips scale can offset a bit of the damage loss from not taking extra attacks. However, Eldritch Blast really isn’t worth it for a Bladelock build or for a Warlock dip if you’re a weapon using main in the first place- you’ll be doing about as much damage with straight weapon attacks and there’s a lot of other Invocations that support that build.
If I’m understanding the question correctly, my answer would be. Once you choose an invocation and tie it to a specific cantrip, you can’t really change it, without, as you note, taking the invocation again, this time for the second spell. You can not change it on the fly, only by taking a new invocation.
However, you are permitted to swap an invocation when you level up as a warlock. So you could basically, drop the agonizing blast: booming blade, and then add as a new invocation agonizing blast: eldritch blast. Of course, you can also always choose to drop AB altogether and pick up a whole different invocation. Also, important to note you can only swap 1 invocation per level. And swapping one does not count against any new invocations you may also get at level up, as long as the total number matches what it says on the level up chart.
This would apply to any other invocations, as well.
You have to take the invocation multiple times sadly. it should just apply to all damaging cantrips imo sort of like a evokers potent cantrip, no one is going to waste 2 invocations on this, and eldritch blast is just the best choice outside some niche things with like true strike if that is allowed at your table.
As for booming blade vs eldritch blast - there are some shenanigans you can do with booming blade + repelling blast that make it a worthwhile choice... at least until you get extra attack. That's why I ask about switching the invocations because at 5th level or so, booming blade isn't that great, the shenanigans don't work as well, and eldritch blast is better.
As for booming blade vs eldritch blast - there are some shenanigans you can do with booming blade + repelling blast that make it a worthwhile choice... at least until you get extra attack. That's why I ask about switching the invocations because at 5th level or so, booming blade isn't that great, the shenanigans don't work as well, and eldritch blast is better.
I'd recommend asking your DM about the interaction between Agonizing Blast and Booming Blade (or Green-Flame Blade and True Strike). It's not clearly defined, but just to leave my opinion here, those don't involve the spell's damage rolls that Agonizing Blast applies to:
Agonizing Blast Choose one of your known Warlock cantrips that deals damage. You can add your Charisma modifier to that spell’s damage rolls.
However, using this ruling:
- For Booming Blade, you could apply Agonizing Blast to the Thunder damage. - For Green-Flame Blade, starting at 5th level, it could apply to the Fire damage. - For True Strike, at higher levels (5+), it could apply to the extra Radiant damage.
You probably already know this, but the forced movement from repelling blast will not cause the target to take the extra Booming Blade damage. They will if they move back up using their movement, which is probably what you had in mind.
In regards to how to apply Agonizing Blast to spells with multiple damage effects, Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade, I think it applies once to the base damage and not to the later damage from the target later moving or the flame's jump to a second person.
I think True Strike would add the Agonizing Blast damage to the weapon attack damage from whenever the invocation is gained. I don't think it would have to wait for the additional radiant damage. The Cleric's Potent Spellcasting doesn't have a limitation as to what kind of damage the ability score is being added to.
[...] The Cleric's Potent Spellcasting doesn't have a limitation as to what kind of damage the ability score is being added to. [...]
I'm personally applying the same ruling for Agonizing Blast to the Cleric's or Druid's Potent Spellcasting, because those three cantrips aren't "damaging cantrips". Of course, it's also an "ask your DM" thing, since there's some debate about it (*)
Regardless of that, I believe the interaction doesn't matter in this case. Under the 2024 rules and classes (**), I don't think it's possible to get Booming Blade, Green-Flame Blade or True Strike as a Cleric or Druid cantrip.
You probably already know this, but the forced movement from repelling blast will not cause the target to take the extra Booming Blade damage. They will if they move back up using their movement, which is probably what you had in mind.
In regards to how to apply Agonizing Blast to spells with multiple damage effects, Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade, I think it applies once to the base damage and not to the later damage from the target later moving or the flame's jump to a second person.
I think True Strike would add the Agonizing Blast damage to the weapon attack damage from whenever the invocation is gained. I don't think it would have to wait for the additional radiant damage. The Cleric's Potent Spellcasting doesn't have a limitation as to what kind of damage the ability score is being added to.
Just my two cents.
Agonizing blast has always applied to all damage rolls from the spell. Even in 2014 rules when it was only available for eldritch blast every beam got the damage not just the first one. That was one of the main reasons to dip warlock at the release of 5e. Agonizing blast says "You can add your Charisma modifier to that spell's damage rolls". Agonizing blast does increase the damage of secondary effect of booming blade and green-flame blade as long as there is a damage roll. Technically that doesn't happen for green-flame blade's secondary effect until level 5.
You probably already know this, but the forced movement from repelling blast will not cause the target to take the extra Booming Blade damage. They will if they move back up using their movement, which is probably what you had in mind.
In regards to how to apply Agonizing Blast to spells with multiple damage effects, Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade, I think it applies once to the base damage and not to the later damage from the target later moving or the flame's jump to a second person.
I think True Strike would add the Agonizing Blast damage to the weapon attack damage from whenever the invocation is gained. I don't think it would have to wait for the additional radiant damage. The Cleric's Potent Spellcasting doesn't have a limitation as to what kind of damage the ability score is being added to.
Just my two cents.
Agonizing blast has always applied to all damage rolls from the spell. Even in 2014 rules when it was only available for eldritch blast every beam got the damage not just the first one. That was one of the main reasons to dip warlock at the release of 5e. Agonizing blast says "You can add your Charisma modifier to that spell's damage rolls". Agonizing blast does increase the damage of secondary effect of booming blade and green-flame blade as long as there is a damage roll. Technically that doesn't happen for green-flame blade's secondary effect until level 5.
The big debate here is whether or not the spell itself is what is dealing damage. Some DM's rule that Booming Blade merely enchants your weapon (spell description denotes target as self), then you make a weapon attack which gets extra damage from the enchantment. When thought of this way, the spell itself does not get a damage roll, the enchanted weapon does (with extra damage), so Agonizing Blast would not apply. As always, you should talk to your DM to see how they want to rule it.
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Ok, so the rules are somewhat ambiguous to me on this issue, so I'm looking for clarification:
Let's take Agonizing Blast as an example. The invocation says:
Ok, so let's say I take Booming Blade as a cantrip and then I take Agonizing Blast to work with Booming Blade. This is very clear. It's allowed since Booming Blade is a Warlock cantrip.
Then, let's say later on, I want to use Agonizing Blast with Eldritch Blast instead of Booming Blade. How do I do this? The rules aren't very clear. Do I have to take Agonizing Blast as an invocation again? Do I have to "forget" Booming Blade to use the invocation with a different cantrip? Do I just stop using Agonizing Blast when I cast Booming Blade and only use it when I cast Eldritch Blast? What's the mechanism here for switching the cantrip the Invocation is used with?
It gets more complicated if you have more Invocations tied to the same cantrip. For example, both Agonizing Blast and Repelling Blast.
Depending on the build, at some point it's not advantageous to keep using Booming Blade. For example, when getting Extra Attack (whether by multiclassing or taking the Thirsting Blade invocation). It seems like a waste to have Invocations on a cantrip no longer being used, and I would probably want to switch things around. But, what's the mechanism, according to the rules, for doing this? Or is this one of those things that's "entirely up to the DM"?
When you take the invocation again, you choose another cantrip to use it with. Now you have two cantrips that you're using it with. You don't have to get rid of the other one; that's why it's labeled as "repeatable".
The Eldritch Invocations feature allows you to swap out one invocation you have for another one whenever you gain a Warlock level. Although it doesn't explicitly say that you can use this to swap the cantrip on Agonizing Blast or a similar invocation, I think that's how pretty much everyone interprets it.
It should be noted that, as of this writing, D&D Beyond's character builder doesn't actually support any of this functionality — it doesn't allow you to take any of these invocations more than once, nor select which cantrip to use them with — so you have to track it yourself separately. This is a bit of a sore spot for a lot of people as it has been almost a year since this content was released and this is a pretty foundational part of the class that just doesn't work.
pronouns: he/she/they
It says it’s repeatable and you need to take it again to choose a different cantrip. Ergo, each pick is “locked in”, although I suppose you could use the option to exchange an Invocation when you level up to shift it from one cantrip to another.
Note that the way cantrips scale can offset a bit of the damage loss from not taking extra attacks. However, Eldritch Blast really isn’t worth it for a Bladelock build or for a Warlock dip if you’re a weapon using main in the first place- you’ll be doing about as much damage with straight weapon attacks and there’s a lot of other Invocations that support that build.
If I’m understanding the question correctly, my answer would be. Once you choose an invocation and tie it to a specific cantrip, you can’t really change it, without, as you note, taking the invocation again, this time for the second spell. You can not change it on the fly, only by taking a new invocation.
However, you are permitted to swap an invocation when you level up as a warlock. So you could basically, drop the agonizing blast: booming blade, and then add as a new invocation agonizing blast: eldritch blast. Of course, you can also always choose to drop AB altogether and pick up a whole different invocation. Also, important to note you can only swap 1 invocation per level. And swapping one does not count against any new invocations you may also get at level up, as long as the total number matches what it says on the level up chart.
This would apply to any other invocations, as well.
You have to take the invocation multiple times sadly. it should just apply to all damaging cantrips imo sort of like a evokers potent cantrip, no one is going to waste 2 invocations on this, and eldritch blast is just the best choice outside some niche things with like true strike if that is allowed at your table.
Thanks everyone for the replies.
As for booming blade vs eldritch blast - there are some shenanigans you can do with booming blade + repelling blast that make it a worthwhile choice... at least until you get extra attack. That's why I ask about switching the invocations because at 5th level or so, booming blade isn't that great, the shenanigans don't work as well, and eldritch blast is better.
I'd recommend asking your DM about the interaction between Agonizing Blast and Booming Blade (or Green-Flame Blade and True Strike). It's not clearly defined, but just to leave my opinion here, those don't involve the spell's damage rolls that Agonizing Blast applies to:
However, using this ruling:
- For Booming Blade, you could apply Agonizing Blast to the Thunder damage.
- For Green-Flame Blade, starting at 5th level, it could apply to the Fire damage.
- For True Strike, at higher levels (5+), it could apply to the extra Radiant damage.
You probably already know this, but the forced movement from repelling blast will not cause the target to take the extra Booming Blade damage. They will if they move back up using their movement, which is probably what you had in mind.
In regards to how to apply Agonizing Blast to spells with multiple damage effects, Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade, I think it applies once to the base damage and not to the later damage from the target later moving or the flame's jump to a second person.
I think True Strike would add the Agonizing Blast damage to the weapon attack damage from whenever the invocation is gained. I don't think it would have to wait for the additional radiant damage. The Cleric's Potent Spellcasting doesn't have a limitation as to what kind of damage the ability score is being added to.
Just my two cents.
I'm personally applying the same ruling for Agonizing Blast to the Cleric's or Druid's Potent Spellcasting, because those three cantrips aren't "damaging cantrips". Of course, it's also an "ask your DM" thing, since there's some debate about it (*)
Regardless of that, I believe the interaction doesn't matter in this case. Under the 2024 rules and classes (**), I don't think it's possible to get Booming Blade, Green-Flame Blade or True Strike as a Cleric or Druid cantrip.
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(*) for example:
(**) maybe there are more ways, but the only one I know of is thanks to the Arcana Domain subclass from Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide.
Agonizing blast has always applied to all damage rolls from the spell. Even in 2014 rules when it was only available for eldritch blast every beam got the damage not just the first one. That was one of the main reasons to dip warlock at the release of 5e. Agonizing blast says "You can add your Charisma modifier to that spell's damage rolls". Agonizing blast does increase the damage of secondary effect of booming blade and green-flame blade as long as there is a damage roll. Technically that doesn't happen for green-flame blade's secondary effect until level 5.
The big debate here is whether or not the spell itself is what is dealing damage. Some DM's rule that Booming Blade merely enchants your weapon (spell description denotes target as self), then you make a weapon attack which gets extra damage from the enchantment. When thought of this way, the spell itself does not get a damage roll, the enchanted weapon does (with extra damage), so Agonizing Blast would not apply. As always, you should talk to your DM to see how they want to rule it.