i have been looking about the internets for a definitive ruling on what happens when the duration of the Aid spell concludes, and for that matter Heroes' Feast.
obviously all rules are subject to the interpretation of the dm and the agreement of the playgroup, but i am curious to know if there is an official statement on the RaI for the termination of the effects of the Aid and Heroes' Feast spells.
i know that the RaI for aspects of the spells as follows:
buff to maximum hp expires and the character reverts to their maximum from before the spell was cast
the hit points granted do not function as Temporary Hit Points
the Disciple of Life class feature from the Life Domain cleric does not buff the increase to current hit points
if current hit points are greater than maximum hit points after the buff expires the excess are lost
because the spell description is poorly worded there are all sorts of problems with the spell. (example)
so i want to know if an official declaration, at least as official as sage advice is, exists and if someone could please point me to it. specifically as it pertains to the the increase of current hit points granted by the spell. and if the effects of Aid differ from Heroes' Feast, and any similar spells and effects, differ in their expiration behavior (given their different wording).
i am aware of many varying interpretations found on the forums here and elsewhere and i am not seeking more of the same.
i would like to point out that contradictory to sage advice Aid is tagged with healing in DnDBeyond and the spell effect says "Regain X Hit Points". the spell effect can be chalked up to implementation and not wanting to write a different way to set that up in the system for only 1 (2 if you count Heroes' Feast) use case. and the tag could be from a misconception by the person(s) that added and reviewed tags. but the fact that these are there muddy the water.
thank you for this. this is what i was looking for. and while i recognize it is not from the "authority" on the subject. his word still carries more weight than all the cumulative speculation surrounding this topic on the internet. at least for me in understanding RaI.
Aid and heroes' feast both seem pretty clearly written. One says that you gain the benefits "for the duration" and the other says the benefits "last for 24 hours" respectively. Since increasing your current hit points is one of the benefits, then you should lose that too when the duration is over.
Edit: On second thought, losing them is only obvious when you don't consider any healing that has happened during the spell's duration. If you lose those current hit points and later regain hit points does your current hit point count still get reduced?
Sadly it is not clearly stated, but I believe the way it is intended is for your max hit points to be raise for the duration, and you you to be healed by the same amount at that time.
When the spell ends, your max hit points return to normal, but you do not take damage equal to the amount it healed you by. Your current hit points only decrease if they are higher than maximum hit points.
Your current hit points are increased by 5, as is your max. Both effects end when the spell does. This means that yes, if you have 4 hp left and the aid spell ends, you're at 0 hit points.
I believe that if this was not the case, the spell would say something like "the increase to max hit points lasts until the spell ends". It's a "game language vs english language" thing I guess. They're not temporary hit points because that is an actual game term and can mess around with other abilities. Same goes for "healing" those hit points, or getting "damage" from the spell when it ends. The Cleric "Disciple of Life" feature for example does not work, since you don't "restore hitpoints", you "increase the current" hit points. When your character is wounded, this is basically the same but it's not according to the spell.
The sage advice says these healing spells don't damage you. Go figure.
That's interesting. However, Mike Mearls is not the definitive authority in this case, Jeremy Crawford is. This is the way mr Mearls would run it in his campaign. That said, I guess that means that the phrasing is only meant to not be boosted by healing. Personally I like the idea of a character going all out, dropping to 4 hp at the end of it all. Then, with a sigh of relief that the day is won, the spell ends and he drops to the floor. So I would rule it that way :)
"Each target's hit point maximum and current hit points increase by 5 for the duration." It's clearly written that the current hit points only increase by 5 "for the duration". I was firmly in the camp of not losing current hit points until I reread the spell text without my bias about what I thought the spell should do.
There is an easy way to write that sentence if the intention is to not lose the current hit points. I would write, "Each target's hit point maximum increases by 5 for the duration and their current hit points increase by five."
i have been looking about the internets for a definitive ruling on what happens when the duration of the Aid spell concludes, and for that matter Heroes' Feast.
obviously all rules are subject to the interpretation of the dm and the agreement of the playgroup, but i am curious to know if there is an official statement on the RaI for the termination of the effects of the Aid and Heroes' Feast spells.
i know that the RaI for aspects of the spells as follows:
because the spell description is poorly worded there are all sorts of problems with the spell. (example)
so i want to know if an official declaration, at least as official as sage advice is, exists and if someone could please point me to it. specifically as it pertains to the the increase of current hit points granted by the spell. and if the effects of Aid differ from Heroes' Feast, and any similar spells and effects, differ in their expiration behavior (given their different wording).
i am aware of many varying interpretations found on the forums here and elsewhere and i am not seeking more of the same.
i would like to point out that contradictory to sage advice Aid is tagged with healing in DnDBeyond and the spell effect says "Regain X Hit Points". the spell effect can be chalked up to implementation and not wanting to write a different way to set that up in the system for only 1 (2 if you count Heroes' Feast) use case. and the tag could be from a misconception by the person(s) that added and reviewed tags. but the fact that these are there muddy the water.
[edit]: success!
thank you for this. this is what i was looking for. and while i recognize it is not from the "authority" on the subject. his word still carries more weight than all the cumulative speculation surrounding this topic on the internet. at least for me in understanding RaI.
Aid and heroes' feast both seem pretty clearly written. One says that you gain the benefits "for the duration" and the other says the benefits "last for 24 hours" respectively. Since increasing your current hit points is one of the benefits, then you should lose that too when the duration is over.
Edit: On second thought, losing them is only obvious when you don't consider any healing that has happened during the spell's duration. If you lose those current hit points and later regain hit points does your current hit point count still get reduced?
Sadly it is not clearly stated, but I believe the way it is intended is for your max hit points to be raise for the duration, and you you to be healed by the same amount at that time.
When the spell ends, your max hit points return to normal, but you do not take damage equal to the amount it healed you by. Your current hit points only decrease if they are higher than maximum hit points.
[Edit] and I found a sage advice: https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/11/12/aid-grants-max-and-curr-hp-for-the-duration-does-current-drop-by-5/
Your current hit points are increased by 5, as is your max. Both effects end when the spell does. This means that yes, if you have 4 hp left and the aid spell ends, you're at 0 hit points.
I believe that if this was not the case, the spell would say something like "the increase to max hit points lasts until the spell ends". It's a "game language vs english language" thing I guess. They're not temporary hit points because that is an actual game term and can mess around with other abilities. Same goes for "healing" those hit points, or getting "damage" from the spell when it ends. The Cleric "Disciple of Life" feature for example does not work, since you don't "restore hitpoints", you "increase the current" hit points. When your character is wounded, this is basically the same but it's not according to the spell.
Subclass: Dwarven Defender - Dragonborn Paragon
Feats: Artificer Apprentice
Monsters: Sheep - Spellbreaker Warforged Titan
Magic Items: Whipier - Ring of Secret Storage - Collar of the Guardian
Monster template: Skeletal Creature
For some reason my edit didn't save. I fixed it.
The sage advice says these healing spells don't damage you. Go figure.
That's interesting. However, Mike Mearls is not the definitive authority in this case, Jeremy Crawford is. This is the way mr Mearls would run it in his campaign. That said, I guess that means that the phrasing is only meant to not be boosted by healing. Personally I like the idea of a character going all out, dropping to 4 hp at the end of it all. Then, with a sigh of relief that the day is won, the spell ends and he drops to the floor. So I would rule it that way :)
Subclass: Dwarven Defender - Dragonborn Paragon
Feats: Artificer Apprentice
Monsters: Sheep - Spellbreaker Warforged Titan
Magic Items: Whipier - Ring of Secret Storage - Collar of the Guardian
Monster template: Skeletal Creature
"Each target's hit point maximum and current hit points increase by 5 for the duration." It's clearly written that the current hit points only increase by 5 "for the duration". I was firmly in the camp of not losing current hit points until I reread the spell text without my bias about what I thought the spell should do.
There is an easy way to write that sentence if the intention is to not lose the current hit points. I would write, "Each target's hit point maximum increases by 5 for the duration and their current hit points increase by five."
found this sage advice though its a year later than this conversation: https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/12/27/can-the-spell-aid-stabilize-downed-players/
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