Counterspell doesn't require you to know what spell is being cast so identifying the spell is pointless. The books describe magic as a weave of reality and spells are pulling at strands to manipulate the weave and therefore affect reality. Antimagic is manipulating strands away from the magical source. Counterspell is therefore about seeing an opponent attempt a spell and creating a brief type of antimagic to stop those strands being pulled - thus, the spell is interrupted.
I see no reason to complicate things further - I find it perfectly balanced as it is.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Counterspell doesn't require you to know what spell is being cast so identifying the spell is pointless.
Hardly pointless. If Counterspell were "free" (no slots used, no Reaction consumed), then maybe. But given that it's not, it would be very useful to know which spell is being cast in order to decide whether to spend your resources (Reaction, spell slot) to counter it.
Counterspell doesn't require you to know what spell is being cast so identifying the spell is pointless.
Hardly pointless. If Counterspell were "free" (no slots used, no Reaction consumed), then maybe. But given that it's not, it would be very useful to know which spell is being cast in order to decide whether to spend your resources (Reaction, spell slot) to counter it.
If counterspell were free, no spells would be cast from either side.
There is a simple solution to Counterspell. Just be more than 60 ft away from the enemy caster when you cast a spell. This makes Counterspell only useful in confined area.
There isn’t a need to recognize a spell to Counterspell it but there also isn’t a defined way to recognize a spell being cast before you decide to cast Counterspell. The decision to cast Counterspell should be made before the caster knows if the spell being cast is a cantrip or Fireball. If a DM is waiting until you cast a big spell before revealing the enemy caster has Counterspell, then that DM is using information the enemy caster shouldn’t know. If he wants to use a few 3rd level slots to counter cantrips, great!
Counterspell also requires sight, so if you can break line of sight for even a moment, you can set up Greater Invisibility or Ready a spell.
Also, any round someone casts Counterspell is a round they can't cast Shield, leaving them vulnerable. Conversely, if you can force them to use Shield then Counterspell isn't an option anymore.
Anyone with access to Shocking Grasp can help shut down counterspells too. The only good outcome is hoping for a miss.
This is not true. You use your action to cast Fireball. You use your Reaction to Counterspell the enemy Counterspell. Your Fireball goes off as normal (unless a third party then counterspells)
This is right but also wrong. As fireball was interrupted, you cannot begin to recast the spell after using your reaction.
you can cast one spell per-action and as you used your action casting (though it got interrupted) your action has ended.
Of course, you can Counterspell Counterspell but you’re literally wasting your reaction for no reason and spell slot.
The people who created D&D 5th edition disagree with you.
If Dave casts Fireball and Mary counterspells, Dave can use his reaction to counterspell the counterspell. This means Dave's fireball is not countered or interrupted and so it proceeds as normal.
From Sage Advice - by Jeremy Crawford the Lead Rules Designer of D&D 5th Edition:
Can you cast a reaction spell on your turn?
You sure can! Here’s a common way for it to happen: Cornelius the wizard is casting fireball on his turn, and his foe casts counterspell on him. Cornelius also has counterspell prepared, so he uses his reaction to cast it and break his foe’s counterspell before it can stop fireball.
Counterspelling a counterspell is almost always useful. Let's try another example where it might be useful:
The party is getting their arses handed to them by Big Bad Evil so they agree to retreat. Simply running won't work so they regroup as party Wizard cast Teleport using his right hand to trace magical sigils into the air and muttering arcane words. The Big Bad Evil is also a spellcaster and can easily understand what they're doing, so it casts a 7th Level Counterspell. The wizard notices this and with their left hand makes the quick motion for the counterspell symbol to Counterspell The Counterspell. The wizard doesn't have any other high slots available so they rely on 3rd level and hope to succeed.
There will be two ways that scenario will resolve, which is determined by the Wizard making an Intelligence roll.
- The Wizard rolls 17 or higher: they successfully counterspell the Big Bad Evil's counterspell, which means they get to successfully cast their Teleport spell. The party arrives at their base in safety.
- The wizard rolls 16 or less: their counterspell fails, so the Big Bad Evil's counterspell successfully interrupts the Wizard's casting of Teleport, so no Teleport, which means no retreat. The party is remembered and honoured for their valiant effort by the nation before being taken over by the Big Bad Evil. The players roll new characters as new adventurers take on the fight to free the newly enslaved nation.
I fail to see why you think counterspelling a counterspell is a waste.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Counterspell doesn't require you to know what spell is being cast so identifying the spell is pointless. The books describe magic as a weave of reality and spells are pulling at strands to manipulate the weave and therefore affect reality. Antimagic is manipulating strands away from the magical source. Counterspell is therefore about seeing an opponent attempt a spell and creating a brief type of antimagic to stop those strands being pulled - thus, the spell is interrupted.
I see no reason to complicate things further - I find it perfectly balanced as it is.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Hardly pointless. If Counterspell were "free" (no slots used, no Reaction consumed), then maybe. But given that it's not, it would be very useful to know which spell is being cast in order to decide whether to spend your resources (Reaction, spell slot) to counter it.
If counterspell were free, no spells would be cast from either side.
There is a simple solution to Counterspell. Just be more than 60 ft away from the enemy caster when you cast a spell. This makes Counterspell only useful in confined area.
There isn’t a need to recognize a spell to Counterspell it but there also isn’t a defined way to recognize a spell being cast before you decide to cast Counterspell. The decision to cast Counterspell should be made before the caster knows if the spell being cast is a cantrip or Fireball. If a DM is waiting until you cast a big spell before revealing the enemy caster has Counterspell, then that DM is using information the enemy caster shouldn’t know. If he wants to use a few 3rd level slots to counter cantrips, great!
Counterspell also requires sight, so if you can break line of sight for even a moment, you can set up Greater Invisibility or Ready a spell.
Also, any round someone casts Counterspell is a round they can't cast Shield, leaving them vulnerable. Conversely, if you can force them to use Shield then Counterspell isn't an option anymore.
Anyone with access to Shocking Grasp can help shut down counterspells too. The only good outcome is hoping for a miss.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Magic the Gathering is a good analogy here. Last in first out for effects..
This is right but also wrong. As fireball was interrupted, you cannot begin to recast the spell after using your reaction.
you can cast one spell per-action and as you used your action casting (though it got interrupted) your action has ended.
Of course, you can Counterspell Counterspell but you’re literally wasting your reaction for no reason and spell slot.
This is not true. You use your action to cast Fireball. You use your Reaction to Counterspell the enemy Counterspell. Your Fireball goes off as normal (unless a third party then counterspells)
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
The people who created D&D 5th edition disagree with you.
If Dave casts Fireball and Mary counterspells, Dave can use his reaction to counterspell the counterspell. This means Dave's fireball is not countered or interrupted and so it proceeds as normal.
From Sage Advice - by Jeremy Crawford the Lead Rules Designer of D&D 5th Edition:
Counterspelling a counterspell is almost always useful. Let's try another example where it might be useful:
The party is getting their arses handed to them by Big Bad Evil so they agree to retreat. Simply running won't work so they regroup as party Wizard cast Teleport using his right hand to trace magical sigils into the air and muttering arcane words. The Big Bad Evil is also a spellcaster and can easily understand what they're doing, so it casts a 7th Level Counterspell. The wizard notices this and with their left hand makes the quick motion for the counterspell symbol to Counterspell The Counterspell. The wizard doesn't have any other high slots available so they rely on 3rd level and hope to succeed.
There will be two ways that scenario will resolve, which is determined by the Wizard making an Intelligence roll.
- The Wizard rolls 17 or higher: they successfully counterspell the Big Bad Evil's counterspell, which means they get to successfully cast their Teleport spell. The party arrives at their base in safety.
- The wizard rolls 16 or less: their counterspell fails, so the Big Bad Evil's counterspell successfully interrupts the Wizard's casting of Teleport, so no Teleport, which means no retreat. The party is remembered and honoured for their valiant effort by the nation before being taken over by the Big Bad Evil. The players roll new characters as new adventurers take on the fight to free the newly enslaved nation.
I fail to see why you think counterspelling a counterspell is a waste.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.