So, I have a question. If I have a Druid Paladin. I’d like to Wildshape, and then smite the opponent when I hit them for a lot of damage. Can I do that? I know you can rage while wildshaped, but can you smite?
It's a bit of a grey area. Divine Smite relies on having a weapon, so this depends on the DM allowing natural weapons like claws or fangs to count as weapons for rules purposes.
Well, they are weapons. Improvised an Unarmed count too, I believe, so I can see that you could do it. I just want to know if it’s possibke to perform the divine smite bile a snak or something. Not if you could do it with fangs.
Nowhere in the rules it says you need to be able to cast spells to be able to Smite, just that you "sacrifice" an available spell slot. Therefore, I'd say you can smite while Wildshaped.
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Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
Per this thread, natural weapons are NOT unarmed strikes, which I'd interpret as meaning natural weapons are melee weapon attacks. So, I'd allow the use of smite in wild shape.
This would be up to your DM on how they rule Divine Smite. Yes it doesn't say that it's a spell but some may consider it a spell since it takes a spell slot. In the end just ask your DM. If you are here asking because your DM doesn't know how to rule just tell him to decide for himself and go from there.
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Well, kind of. Problem is that the rules never address natural weapons, and when writing the Player's Handbook, the writers meant manufactured weapons from the weapon tables whenever they wrote "weapon". You can see evidence of this in features like the Eldritch Knight's Weapon Bond or the Warlock's Pact of the Blade. This is why I said it's a bit of a gray area. If your DM is willing to interpret the rules generously and read between the lines a little, then sure, a natural weapon counts and you can smite with one. A stricter DM might say "no, the rules never say natural weapons count as weapons for rules purposes."
Improvised an Unarmed count too, I believe, so I can see that you could do it.
Improvised weapons and unarmed strikes aren't weapons. That's the whole point of calling them improvised weapons (they're not real weapons) and unarmed strikes (you're not using a weapon.)
This would be up to your DM on how they rule Divine Smite. Yes it doesn't say that it's a spell but some may consider it a spell since it takes a spell slot.
It's definitely not a spell. If it were a spell, the rules would call it a spell.
It's not that complicated. Improvised Weapons are weapons. Natural Weapons are weapons. Simple and Martial Weapons are weapons. Spell Attacks are not weapons. Unarmed Strikes are not weapons.
It's not that complicated. Improvised Weapons are weapons.
Fool's gold isn't gold and mage armor isn't armor. Sometimes adding an adjective to a noun turns it into a compound noun with a new meaning.
By definition, an improvised weapon is something you use instead of a weapon. It's not the real thing, just a substitute you can use in a pinch.
Improvised Weapons
Sometimes characters don't have their weapons and have to attack with whatever is at hand. An improvised weapon includes any object you can wield in one or two hands, such as broken glass, a table leg, a frying pan, a wagon wheel, or a dead goblin.
Often, an improvised weapon is similar to an actual weapon and can be treated as such. For example, a table leg is akin to a club. At the DM's option, a character proficient with a weapon can use a similar object as if it were that weapon and use his or her proficiency bonus.
See also the tweet in my previous post, and these:
I don't understand why people are discussing if something is a weapon or not.
Divine Smite doesn't require a weapon.
It requires a weapon attack and basically anything that is not a spell attack but requires an attack roll is considered a weapon attack: you can make weapon attacks (i.e. a physical attack) with non-weapon things. Unarmed strikes are considered weapon attacks even though your fists/feet/head/whatever is not a weapon, same goes for improvised weapons and so on.
The attack entry for beasts lists it as a "melee weapon attack". Divine Smite cares only if it is a weapon attack, not whether you are using a weapon.
The RAW is extremely clear. Yes you can Divine Smite while Wild Shaped.
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Starting at 2nd level, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can expend one spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target, in addition to the weapon’s damage.
The feature clearly expects you to use a weapon. You can't deal radiant damage "in addition to the weapon's damage" if there is no weapon.
Missed that, somehow. Would never rule that way, personally. I see no reason why it matters what you use to smite with.
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It's just a story/tradition thing, kinda like how Arcane Archers have to use bows because it's an elven fighting style. Smiting with unarmed strikes doesn't break anything mechanically, but it's always good to get buy-in from your DM even for harmless things like that.
Starting at 2nd level, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can expend one spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target, in addition to the weapon’s damage.
The feature clearly expects you to use a weapon. You can't deal radiant damage "in addition to the weapon's damage" if there is no weapon.
Going to necro this for the sole purpose of saying the following: while yes, you are correct in that it requires a "weapon", per the Official SAC, Natural weapons count as full weapons in all circumstances, unless they are stated to be making an unarmed strike. Therefore, if the stat block says the creature makes a "melee weapon attack", and doesn't also qualify that as being an unarmed strike, then you can divine smite while wild shaped. As a bear's claws and bite would be considered a Natural Weapon.
Are natural weapons considered weapons?
Things designated as weapons by the rules, including natural weapons, are indeed weapons. In contrast, unarmed strikes are not weapons. They are something you do with an unarmed part of your body.
Starting at 2nd level, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can expend one spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target, in addition to the weapon’s damage.
The feature clearly expects you to use a weapon. You can't deal radiant damage "in addition to the weapon's damage" if there is no weapon.
Going to necro this for the sole purpose of saying the following: while yes, you are correct in that it requires a "weapon", per the Official SAC, Natural weapons count as full weapons in all circumstances, unless they are stated to be making an unarmed strike. Therefore, if the stat block says the creature makes a "melee weapon attack", and doesn't also qualify that as being an unarmed strike, then you can divine smite while wild shaped. As a bear's claws and bite would be considered a Natural Weapon.
Are natural weapons considered weapons?
Things designated as weapons by the rules, including natural weapons, are indeed weapons. In contrast, unarmed strikes are not weapons. They are something you do with an unarmed part of your body.
I absolutely love it when the official rules say "unarmed strikes are not weapons" in a post without elaborating further as to what kind of attack they are
I understand "attack with a weapon" and "weapon attack" are two different things, and that unarmed strikes count as the latter but not the former, but it would be beyond helpful to have the official ruling be stated in one single post by an official game designer to compare and contrast the terms, rather than have us scrabble around in the dirt looking for disparate rulings like metapigeons looking for breadcrumbs.
I absolutely love it when the official rules say "unarmed strikes are not weapons" in a post without elaborating further as to what kind of attack they are
I understand "attack with a weapon" and "weapon attack" are two different things, and that unarmed strikes count as the latter but not the former, but it would be beyond helpful to have the official ruling be stated in one single post by an official game designer to compare and contrast the terms, rather than have us scrabble around in the dirt looking for disparate rulings like metapigeons looking for breadcrumbs.
So, I have a question. If I have a Druid Paladin. I’d like to Wildshape, and then smite the opponent when I hit them for a lot of damage. Can I do that? I know you can rage while wildshaped, but can you smite?
Extended Signature! Yay! https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/off-topic/adohands-kitchen/3153-extended-signature-thread?page=2#c21
Haven’t used this account in forever. Still a big fan of crawling claws.
It's a bit of a grey area. Divine Smite relies on having a weapon, so this depends on the DM allowing natural weapons like claws or fangs to count as weapons for rules purposes.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Well, they are weapons. Improvised an Unarmed count too, I believe, so I can see that you could do it. I just want to know if it’s possibke to perform the divine smite bile a snak or something. Not if you could do it with fangs.
Extended Signature! Yay! https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/off-topic/adohands-kitchen/3153-extended-signature-thread?page=2#c21
Haven’t used this account in forever. Still a big fan of crawling claws.
Nowhere in the rules it says you need to be able to cast spells to be able to Smite, just that you "sacrifice" an available spell slot. Therefore, I'd say you can smite while Wildshaped.
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
Per this thread, natural weapons are NOT unarmed strikes, which I'd interpret as meaning natural weapons are melee weapon attacks. So, I'd allow the use of smite in wild shape.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/03/21/how-do-wild-shape-attacks-interact-with-unarmed-strikes/
This would be up to your DM on how they rule Divine Smite. Yes it doesn't say that it's a spell but some may consider it a spell since it takes a spell slot. In the end just ask your DM. If you are here asking because your DM doesn't know how to rule just tell him to decide for himself and go from there.
Remember this is a game and it's suppose to be fun for everybody. Let's all have fun and kill monsters.
Well, kind of. Problem is that the rules never address natural weapons, and when writing the Player's Handbook, the writers meant manufactured weapons from the weapon tables whenever they wrote "weapon". You can see evidence of this in features like the Eldritch Knight's Weapon Bond or the Warlock's Pact of the Blade. This is why I said it's a bit of a gray area. If your DM is willing to interpret the rules generously and read between the lines a little, then sure, a natural weapon counts and you can smite with one. A stricter DM might say "no, the rules never say natural weapons count as weapons for rules purposes."
Improvised weapons and unarmed strikes aren't weapons. That's the whole point of calling them improvised weapons (they're not real weapons) and unarmed strikes (you're not using a weapon.)
It's definitely not a spell. If it were a spell, the rules would call it a spell.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
It's not that complicated. Improvised Weapons are weapons. Natural Weapons are weapons. Simple and Martial Weapons are weapons. Spell Attacks are not weapons. Unarmed Strikes are not weapons.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Fool's gold isn't gold and mage armor isn't armor. Sometimes adding an adjective to a noun turns it into a compound noun with a new meaning.
By definition, an improvised weapon is something you use instead of a weapon. It's not the real thing, just a substitute you can use in a pinch.
See also the tweet in my previous post, and these:
"An improvised weapon belongs to none of the game's weapon categories, unless the DM decides otherwise. For more information on the DM's role, see "Improvised Weapons" (PH, 147)."
"Improvised weapons are indeed in a category (English). They are not in one of the game’s weapon categories, however, unless the DM says they are (rule)."
"...Improvised weapons aren't technically weapons, yet you can make weapon attacks with them."
The Forum Infestation (TM)
I don't understand why people are discussing if something is a weapon or not.
Divine Smite doesn't require a weapon.
It requires a weapon attack and basically anything that is not a spell attack but requires an attack roll is considered a weapon attack: you can make weapon attacks (i.e. a physical attack) with non-weapon things. Unarmed strikes are considered weapon attacks even though your fists/feet/head/whatever is not a weapon, same goes for improvised weapons and so on.
The attack entry for beasts lists it as a "melee weapon attack". Divine Smite cares only if it is a weapon attack, not whether you are using a weapon.
The RAW is extremely clear. Yes you can Divine Smite while Wild Shaped.
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The feature clearly expects you to use a weapon. You can't deal radiant damage "in addition to the weapon's damage" if there is no weapon.
"Divine Smite is intended to be used with a weapon."
"The feature refers to "the weapon's damage." It's more specific than "melee weapon attack.""
"It is, indeed, both RAW and RAI."
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Missed that, somehow. Would never rule that way, personally. I see no reason why it matters what you use to smite with.
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It's just a story/tradition thing, kinda like how Arcane Archers have to use bows because it's an elven fighting style. Smiting with unarmed strikes doesn't break anything mechanically, but it's always good to get buy-in from your DM even for harmless things like that.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
shapeshift into a gorilla and hold a weapon
Going to necro this for the sole purpose of saying the following: while yes, you are correct in that it requires a "weapon", per the Official SAC, Natural weapons count as full weapons in all circumstances, unless they are stated to be making an unarmed strike. Therefore, if the stat block says the creature makes a "melee weapon attack", and doesn't also qualify that as being an unarmed strike, then you can divine smite while wild shaped. As a bear's claws and bite would be considered a Natural Weapon.
I absolutely love it when the official rules say "unarmed strikes are not weapons" in a post without elaborating further as to what kind of attack they are
I understand "attack with a weapon" and "weapon attack" are two different things, and that unarmed strikes count as the latter but not the former, but it would be beyond helpful to have the official ruling be stated in one single post by an official game designer to compare and contrast the terms, rather than have us scrabble around in the dirt looking for disparate rulings like metapigeons looking for breadcrumbs.
For a single source for official rulings from the devs check out the Sage Advice Compendium: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/sac/sage-advice-compendium
Specifically, with respect to the distinction between "attack with a weapon" and "weapon attack" there a few different SAC entries that touch on this, but this entry addresses it directly: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/sac/sage-advice-compendium#SA130