You call forth spirits to protect you. They flit around you to a distance of 15 feet for the duration. If you are good or neutral, their spectral form appears angelic or fey (your choice). If you are evil, they appear fiendish.
When you cast this spell, you can designate any number of creatures you can see to be unaffected by it. An affected creature's speed is halved in the area, and when the creature enters the area for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there, it must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, the creature takes 3d8 radiant damage (if you are good or neutral) or 3d8 necrotic damage (if you are evil). On a successful save, the creature takes half as much damage.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 4th level or higher, the damage increases by 1d8 for each slot level above 3rd.
That is the ongoing effect of the spell, right there. Everything else is caused by that effect, but that is the actual effect right there, those spirits in that area. Since the effects of multiple castings of the same spells cannot stack, those spirits from multiple castings of the spell cannot effect the same area. Therefore, wherever the areas of two or more castings of the spell overlap, the rules for multiple ongoing effects kicks in, and wherever they don’t overlap they function normally.
Now, at that point it is up to the DM to determine what constitutes “potency,” but if they just use spell slot level used to cast, and both were cast at 2nd-level, then the more recent one takes precedence. If the more recent one was cast by the hostile and it rolls in like: “Oh yeah!?! 👉 Two can play at that game ‘hero,’ *p’toey* TO ME SPIRITS!!” And then the evil Raiders of the Lost Ark looking spirits come in all 💀 and the PC’s GG spirits are all like 👻 “run away.” Or maybe it’s a more epic battle betwixt G & E, but E came in fresh and jumped G when they weren’t lookin’ like a WWE style run-in and 💥. Before G’s spirits knew it they were up to their 💪 in 455🕳s & 🐊s. 🤷♂️
That's a pretty bogus ruling. That would be like saying that if two creatures cast Light and were withing 10 feet of each other, that the space between them would actually be dark because the overlapping lights cancel each other out.
I agree that speed and damage would not stack, but stating that two auras cannot exist in the same place is not RAW at all.
And I have been wracking my brain trying to figure out how you believe that Magic Missile is played against RAW...can you enlighten me?
Not that they cancel each other out, that the “more potent” or “more recent” overwrites the other while they overlap. If the BBE cast theirs after the hero, but at the same level, then where they overlap the BBE’s would work but where the hero’s would not.
To use your light analogy, only one casting actually sheds light while they overlap, not both. And that is RAW 100%, nothing “bogus” about it. So no need to be quite so rude.
I think this comes down to who the spell is cast on. The spell is cast on the cleric. It cannot be stacked on the cleric. The fact that the spell affects other creatures is irrelevant. An effect (I think) is something that is persistent. The slow effect on an enemy in the field is persistent and does not stack. The damage is instantaneous. saying they cancel out is like saying that if 2 clerics cast symbol (Death) and someone entered the trigger range of both at the same time then they would only take damage from one of them sine the damage is the effect of the spell. This rule was intended to prevent persistent effects from stacking only. So no doubled bless, haste, aid, Armor of Agathys, etc...
I think this comes down to who the spell is cast on. The spell is cast on the cleric. It cannot be stacked on the cleric. The fact that the spell affects other creatures is irrelevant. An effect (I think) is something that is persistent. The slow effect on an enemy in the field is persistent and does not stack. The damage is instantaneous. saying they cancel out is like saying that if 2 clerics cast symbol (Death) and someone entered the trigger range of both at the same time then they would only take damage from one of them sine the damage is the effect of the spell. This rule was intended to prevent persistent effects from stacking only. So no doubled bless, haste, aid, Armor of Agathys, etc...
The aura is a persistent effect, the damage is a secondary effect caused by the aura.
You call forth spirits to protect you. They flit around you to a distance of 15 feet for the duration. If you are good or neutral, their spectral form appears angelic or fey (your choice). If you are evil, they appear fiendish.
When you cast this spell, you can designate any number of creatures you can see to be unaffected by it. An affected creature's speed is halved in the area, and when the creature enters the area for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there, it must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, the creature takes 3d8 radiant damage (if you are good or neutral) or 3d8 necrotic damage (if you are evil). On a successful save, the creature takes half as much damage.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 4th level or higher, the damage increases by 1d8 for each slot level above 3rd.
That is the ongoing effect of the spell, right there. Everything else is caused by that effect, but that is the actual effect right there, those spirits in that area. Since the effects of multiple castings of the same spells cannot stack, those spirits from multiple castings of the spell cannot effect the same area. Therefore, wherever the areas of two or more castings of the spell overlap, the rules for multiple ongoing effects kicks in, and wherever they don’t overlap they function normally.
Now, at that point it is up to the DM to determine what constitutes “potency,” but if they just use spell slot level used to cast, and both were cast at 2nd-level, then the more recent one takes precedence. If the more recent one was cast by the hostile and it rolls in like: “Oh yeah!?! 👉 Two can play at that game ‘hero,’ *p’toey* TO ME SPIRITS!!” And then the evil Raiders of the Lost Ark looking spirits come in all 💀 and the PC’s GG spirits are all like 👻 “run away.” Or maybe it’s a more epic battle betwixt G & E, but E came in fresh and jumped G when they weren’t lookin’ like a WWE style run-in and 💥. Before G’s spirits knew it they were up to their 💪 in 455🕳s & 🐊s. 🤷♂️
That's a pretty bogus ruling. That would be like saying that if two creatures cast Light and were withing 10 feet of each other, that the space between them would actually be dark because the overlapping lights cancel each other out.
I agree that speed and damage would not stack, but stating that two auras cannot exist in the same place is not RAW at all.
And I have been wracking my brain trying to figure out how you believe that Magic Missile is played against RAW...can you enlighten me?
Not that they cancel each other out, that the “more potent” or “more recent” overwrites the other while they overlap. If the BBE cast theirs after the hero, but at the same level, then where they overlap the BBE’s would work but where the hero’s would not.
To use your light analogy, only one casting actually sheds light while they overlap, not both. And that is RAW 100%, nothing “bogus” about it. So no need to be quite so rude.
As for Magic Missile, RAW you only roll 1d4+1 once and apply it to all darts. Most people roll separately for each dart.
That is not anywhere close to correct. It says "A dart deals 1d4+1 damage to its target" not "All darts deal 1d4+1 damage". That would be like saying if you make two attacks with your 1d8 Longsword that you only roll the d8 once and apply it to both attacks because a Longsword does 1d8+Str to the target you hit.
Zarramoth is 100% right on this. If an Evoker Wizard casts Wall of Fire and selects allies of his not to take damage, and then an enemy Evoker Wizard also casts Wall of Fire within 10 feet of yours and selects his allies not to take damage, that doesn't mean that all of a sudden his allies stop taking damage from your Wall of Fire. They would continue to take damage from yours, and your allies would take damage from the enemy's Wall of Fire. To rule otherwise is absurd.
You are not even close to correct and even Jeremy Crawford says so:
Since you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about, I’ll no longer engage you in this debate. Absurd though it may be, that’s RAW and if you don’t like it go take it up with Crawford and leave me the hell alone.
IamSposta, can you address my point about the damage from Symbol please. What if one Symbol was set to Pain and the other to Death?
I would say that the aura is not an affect on creatures in the area. It is an effect on the cleric who cast the spell. You don't say that the enemy is auraed. You say they are slowed. being slowed is the effect and it affects a creature within the aura. Being damaged is being damaged. It is not a spell effect.
IamSposta, can you address my point about the damage from Symbol please. What if one Symbol was set to Pain and the other to Death?
I would say that the aura is not an affect on creatures in the area. It is an effect on the cleric who cast the spell. You don't say that the enemy is auraed. You say they are slowed. being slowed is the effect and it affects a creature within the aura. Being damaged is being damaged. It is not a spell effect.
No, I won’t discuss symbol because it is another tangential rabbit hole like Magic Missile was. What I will do is present you with the last piece of evidence I am prepared to present in this thread (if you want anything else go read it in the last thread in which I argued all of this).
When a character casts any spell, the same basic rules are followed, regardless of the character's class or the spell's effects.
Each spell description begins with a block of information, including the spell's name, level, school of magic, casting time, range, components, and duration. The rest of a spell entry describes the spell's effect.
So, RAW, absolutely everything written in the spell’s “description” is “the spell’s effect,” including the spirits the spell summons and the aura in which they operate.
The effects of different spells add together while the durations of those spells overlap. The effects of the same spell cast multiple times don't combine, however. Instead, the most potent effect--such as the highest bonus--from those castings applies while their durations overlap, or the most recent effect applies if the castings are equally potent and their durations overlap.
For example, if two clerics cast bless on the same target, that character gains the spell's benefit only once; he or she doesn't get to roll two bonus dice.
I read through half of your "proof" thread and you just kept saying the same things you say here with ~90% of people disagreeing. I saw nothing there that is any more convincing than what is here and since you won't address 2 simultaneous effects from a different spell I guess you aren't prepared to see how you are wrong here as well. That's fine. You can define an effect as you like and the rest of us will define it another way.
I would absolutely be fine with the enemy stacking this spell just like the players can. I also would absolutely never want to play at your table though witch suits both of us just fine I'm sure. In you other thread you clearly state how you would unfairly treat a player who disagrees with you about how things work.
PC1 "I cast spirit guardians at level 4." PC2 "That spell is awesome! I cast it at level 3." DM "PC2 your spell takes affect and does nothing at all unless you run over there where there is no one to be affected by your spell and it will also do nothing. Enjoy concentrating on that!" PC1 ";(" PC2 ";(" PC3 ";(" ...etc
Yes, it would have to include quite a bit of my repeating myself, which is why I’m not doing it anymore.
I don’t care how many people disagree with it, that’s irrelevant. Just as I don’t care how many people disagree with the RAW on magic missile either. If ~90% of people jumped of the Tacony–Palmyra Bridge into the Delaware effing River it wouldn’t make it any more correct than they were there or than you are here.
And as to your claims of anything I have stated about unfairly treating a player, you would have to point that out. But as it’s irrelevant to this thread, please do it in that one. (Although I’m sure it pretty much added up to something along the lines of “this is my ruling, if you don’t like it then there’s the door.” And if you think that’s “unfair” then it is very good you are not at my table.)
I wonder what would happen to a gargantuan creature who is partly in one spells area and partly in the other spells area while neither spell overlaps. Would they then affect that creature twice simply because the areas do not overlap? hmm... They would still affect the same creature though... But not combining in the same area.
The same with 2 walls of fire or hunger of hadar... Just because the creature is big and the areas don't overlap.
PC1 "I cast spirit guardians at level 4." PC2 "That spell is awesome! I cast it at level 3." DM "PC2 your spell takes affect and does nothing at all unless you run over there where there is no one to be affected by your spell and it will also do nothing. Enjoy concentrating on that!" PC1 ";(" PC2 ";(" PC3 ";(" ...etc
Oh, I’m so sowwy dat wules as witten is soooo unbewievabwy unfaiw to you and youw pwayews. *boohoo boohoo* 😭
Sposta I agree with you on magic missile it's how we play it too. Thematically I picture it as you pouring magic into the spell which divides evenly among the bolts that form at the same time. People can play it however they want I'm not arguing that though. It looks like it's RAW based on what you've said for overlapping aoe effects as well although that'd be anti fun for my table so we wouldn't do that at least in the case of spirit guardians. Buff/Debuffs is generally what we won't allow to stack but I definitely see how it would be raw that other effects (damage) wouldn't either. It does make sense raw though as it's a similar vein to not allowing full sentinel parties.
I'm curious how you'd rule (under raw) say the AOE's were overlapping at the edge and the monster started at that point then moved further into the lesser or older effect where they don't overlap. Would you consider it already in the effect when it started it's turn or moving into it for the first time on it's turn. This is just hypothetical curiosity not really arguing any point because I'm really not sure. Does it still exist in that space and just not apply or does the stronger/newer one stop it from existing? Apologies if you answered this in the other thread I haven't read it.
Edit: Further looking at it again if they are the same level is the more recent one the more recent cast or more recent to occupy that space. I'm picturing a battle of stealing the spirits from each other MAH SPIRITS, NO MYYY SPIRITS lol.
PC1 "I cast spirit guardians at level 4." PC2 "That spell is awesome! I cast it at level 3." DM "PC2 your spell takes affect and does nothing at all unless you run over there where there is no one to be affected by your spell and it will also do nothing. Enjoy concentrating on that!" PC1 ";(" PC2 ";(" PC3 ";(" ...etc
Oh, I’m so sowwy dat wules as witten is soooo unbewievabwy unfaiw to you and youw pwayews. *boohoo boohoo* 😭
What a well reasoned argument you have put forward! You have cleverly picked apart the logical points of his stance.
Just because you claim yourself to be correct and then slap your hands over your ears and ignore all other counterpoints, doesn't make you right. I too read your "proof" and it's pretty poor.
As to any “logical points” of their (don’t want to assume gender as you have) stance: It is irrelevant that PC2 in that instance would not be able to use that spell because PC1 was already using it, and a “more potent“ version of that spell. What a shame, that two auras, won’t stack together. Just like any other spell that creates an aura, won’t stack with another copy of the same spell. Aura of life? No, won’t stack. Aura of purity? No won’t stack. Crusader’s mantle? Nope. Why? Because that’s the rules. So it doesn’t matter how many frowny-faces their players or their PCs make, it’s irrelevant. And since frowny faces are not what I would ever refer to as “logical points,” there was nothing for me to cleverly pick apart.
And I don’t just “claim myself” correct. I have sited multiple pieces of RAW as evidence, with highlights and links and everything. Nobody has presented a single piece of evidence to rebut me. Not one. Youse two keep clapping your hands over your ears and saying “nay nay” like that’s an argument. You can think my proof as poor as you want. But you haven’t presented any to refute me. So I cannot even claim your proof is “poor,” because it’s currently non-existent.
Aura of life - you are no longer at 0 after the first aura brings you to 1. And resistance is resistance. Aura of Purity - Yes, the effect of advantage on saves and disease immunity does not stack. Advantage does not stack. Crusader's Mantle - yes, the effect of your attacks dealing an extra 1d4 damage does not stack. The effect is the increased damage, not the aura. Spirit guardians - yes, the slow effect does not stack. The damage also does not "stack". it just happens for both spells.
I know you can't back down now because you've been pushing this so hard. But you are wrong here. The aura is not the effect. the aura is an aura inside of which the difficult terrain effect happens and creatures also take damage. Is it so hard to think of the different allied spirits ganging up on enemies in their range? It's like summoning creatures to fight for you. They surround you and attack things that come into range. They are tiny and can fly through the same space that your allies little guardians fly through. If they are shunted over by the other spell then the side of you they are pushed to should deal more damage due to concentration. Obviously that does not happen either.
I think the attack VS not attack it the basis of this argument. Though one could argue that the AOE would be saving throw vs no saving throw. I don't think Magic missile needs to be done one way or the other. Neither one increases or decreases the effectiveness of the spell really baring outside factors like the Evoker wizard feature.
When a character casts any spell, the same basic rules are followed, regardless of the character's class or the spell's effects.
Each spell description begins with a block of information, including the spell's name, level, school of magic, casting time, range, components, and duration. The rest of a spell entry describes the spell's effect.
👆That, proves that this👇is true.
You call forth spirits to protect you. They flit around you to a distance of 15 feet for the duration. If you are good or neutral, their spectral form appears angelic or fey (your choice). If you are evil, they appear fiendish.
When you cast this spell, you can designate any number of creatures you can see to be unaffected by it. An affected creature's speed is halved in the area, and when the creature enters the area for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there, it must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, the creature takes 3d8 radiant damage (if you are good or neutral) or 3d8 necrotic damage (if you are evil). On a successful save, the creature takes half as much damage.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 4th level or higher, the damage increases by 1d8 for each slot level above 3rd.
That is the ongoing effect of the spell, right there. Everything else is caused by that effect, but that is the actual effect right there, those spirits in that area.
The effects of different spells add together while the durations of those spells overlap. The effects of the same spell cast multiple times don't combine, however. Instead, the most potent effect--such as the highest bonus--from those castings applies while their durations overlap, or the most recent effect applies if the castings are equally potent and their durations overlap.
For example, if two clerics cast bless on the same target, that character gains the spell's benefit only once; he or she doesn't get to roll two bonus dice.
Since the effects of multiple castings of the same spells cannot stack, those spirits from multiple castings of the spell cannot effect the same area. Therefore, wherever the areas of two or more castings of the spell overlap, the rules for multiple ongoing effects kicks in, and wherever they don’t overlap they function normally.
If nobody can provide a single piece of actual evidence to refute my argument, then my argument stands. Go find yourselves some evidence, please. I would absolutely love to engage in an actual debate with you on this if you can find a single shred of evidence to support your arguments. So go find evidence, if it exists.
PC1 "I cast spirit guardians at level 4." PC2 "That spell is awesome! I cast it at level 3." DM "PC2 your spell takes affect and does nothing at all unless you run over there where there is no one to be affected by your spell and it will also do nothing. Enjoy concentrating on that!" PC1 ";(" PC2 ";(" PC3 ";(" ...etc
Oh, I’m so sowwy dat wules as witten is soooo unbewievabwy unfaiw to you and youw pwayews. *boohoo boohoo* 😭
What a well reasoned argument you have put forward! You have cleverly picked apart the logical points of his stance.
Just because you claim yourself to be correct and then slap your hands over your ears and ignore all other counterpoints, doesn't make you right. I too read your "proof" and it's pretty poor.
As to any “logical points” of their (don’t want to assume gender as you have) stance: It is a relevant that PC2 in that instance would not be able to use that spell because PC1 was already using it, and a “more potent“ version of that spell. What a shame, that two auras, won’t stuck together. Just like any other spell that creates an aura, won’t stack with another copy of the same spell. Aura of life? No, won’t stack. Aura of purity? No won’t stack. Crusader’s mantle? Nope. Why? Because that’s the rules. So it doesn’t matter how many frowny-faces their players or their PCs make, it’s irrelevant. And since frowny faces are not what I would ever refer to as “logical points,” there was nothing for me to cleverly pick apart.
And I don’t just “claim myself” correct. I have sited multiple pieces of RAW as evidence, with highlights and links and everything. Nobody has presented a single piece of evidence to rebut me. Not one. Youse two keep clapping your hands over your ears and saying “nay nay” like that’s an argument. You can think my proof as poor as you want. But you haven’t presented any to refute me. So I cannot even claim your proof is “poor,” because it’s currently non-existent.
The one single rule you quote (for the MM argument) is the rule that relates to AoE spell damage. MM is not an AoE because you cannot hit one target with the same AoE more than once. Your "proof" in that thread also completely ignored the argument that "rolling once for damage" would mean that a creature hit with two darts would take the same damage as one hit with a single dart (higher or lower damage was never determined). The only argument I saw was "One creature is two targets" which is some real mental gymnastics.
I typically agree with Crawford, but I think that he is dead wrong on this one. Three darts do not constitute an AoE any more than three Eldritch Blast beams would. The fact that you make an attack roll for one and not the other is inconsequential.
Again, if you want to debate Magic Missile, take it to one of the three threads I linked all about debating Magic Missile, this thread is all about spirit guardians.
Sposta I agree with you on magic missile it's how we play it too. Thematically I picture it as you pouring magic into the spell which divides evenly among the bolts that form at the same time. People can play it however they want I'm not arguing that though. It looks like it's RAW based on what you've said for overlapping aoe effects as well although that'd be anti fun for my table so we wouldn't do that at least in the case of spirit guardians. Buff/Debuffs is generally what we won't allow to stack but I definitely see how it would be raw that other effects (damage) wouldn't either. It does make sense raw though as it's a similar vein to not allowing full sentinel parties.
I'm curious how you'd rule (under raw) say the AOE's were overlapping at the edge and the monster started at that point then moved further into the lesser or older effect where they don't overlap. Would you consider it already in the effect when it started it's turn or moving into it for the first time on it's turn. This is just hypothetical curiosity not really arguing any point because I'm really not sure. Does it still exist in that space and just not apply or does the stronger/newer one stop it from existing? Apologies if you answered this in the other thread I haven't read it.
Edit: Further looking at it again if they are the same level is the more recent one the more recent cast or more recent to occupy that space. I'm picturing a battle of stealing the spirits from each other MAH SPIRITS, NO MYYY SPIRITS lol.
Isn’t damage one of the ultimate “debuffs” in D&D?
In that scenario I would rule that where the auras overlap the more potent/recent are the effects that actually apply, even though the two aura’s do technically occupy the same space. So that monster is already in there aura, it just doesn’t effect the creature at all. Both auras are there (hence their overlapping), they just don’t both apply.
Me personally I rule that the “more potent” is the one cast at the higher level, and that the “more recent” is the one cast more recently. That means there’s no bookkeeping as to which aura is supplanting which at any given time. But “potency” (and I suppose in that case “recent-ness” would be determined on a DM/DM basis since we have no RAW for that.
Main flaw is not much range. It isn't very effective against ranged foes, and do you really want melee foes close enough that they can be hit by it?
Not that they cancel each other out, that the “more potent” or “more recent” overwrites the other while they overlap. If the BBE cast theirs after the hero, but at the same level, then where they overlap the BBE’s would work but where the hero’s would not.
To use your light analogy, only one casting actually sheds light while they overlap, not both. And that is RAW 100%, nothing “bogus” about it. So no need to be quite so rude.
It took pages, but I proved it in this thread: (https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/rules-game-mechanics/75172-spiritual-guardians). If anyone wants to disagree, go read this thread first and you’ll realize I have already addressed your argument there.
As for Magic Missile, RAW you only roll 1d4+1 once and apply it to all darts. Most people roll separately for each dart.
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I think this comes down to who the spell is cast on. The spell is cast on the cleric. It cannot be stacked on the cleric. The fact that the spell affects other creatures is irrelevant. An effect (I think) is something that is persistent. The slow effect on an enemy in the field is persistent and does not stack. The damage is instantaneous. saying they cancel out is like saying that if 2 clerics cast symbol (Death) and someone entered the trigger range of both at the same time then they would only take damage from one of them sine the damage is the effect of the spell. This rule was intended to prevent persistent effects from stacking only. So no doubled bless, haste, aid, Armor of Agathys, etc...
The aura is a persistent effect, the damage is a secondary effect caused by the aura.
It took pages, but I proved it in this thread: (https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/rules-game-mechanics/75172-spiritual-guardians). If anyone wants to disagree, go read this thread first and you’ll realize I have already addressed your argument there.
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This is all your fault. I’m not rehashing these arguments againagain anymore.
It took pages, but I proved it in this thread: (https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/rules-game-mechanics/75172-spiritual-guardians). If anyone wants to disagree, go read this thread first and you’ll realize I have already addressed your argument there. As to the posts that felled my opponents, you can’t miss them, they’re the ones I posted, just look for the unicorn.
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You are not even close to correct and even Jeremy Crawford says so:
https://mobile.twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/774030989894955008?lang=en
It’s because each dart strikes simultaneously so they follow the rules for AoE damage and only rolling once.
Since you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about, I’ll no longer engage you in this debate. Absurd though it may be, that’s RAW and if you don’t like it go take it up with Crawford and leave me the hell alone.
It took pages, but I proved it in this thread: (https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/rules-game-mechanics/75172-spiritual-guardians). If anyone wants to disagree, go read this thread first and you’ll realize I have already addressed your argument there.
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IamSposta, can you address my point about the damage from Symbol please. What if one Symbol was set to Pain and the other to Death?
I would say that the aura is not an affect on creatures in the area. It is an effect on the cleric who cast the spell. You don't say that the enemy is auraed. You say they are slowed. being slowed is the effect and it affects a creature within the aura. Being damaged is being damaged. It is not a spell effect.
No, I won’t discuss symbol because it is another tangential rabbit hole like Magic Missile was. What I will do is present you with the last piece of evidence I am prepared to present in this thread (if you want anything else go read it in the last thread in which I argued all of this).
So, RAW, absolutely everything written in the spell’s “description” is “the spell’s effect,” including the spirits the spell summons and the aura in which they operate.
It took pages, but I proved it in this thread: (https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/rules-game-mechanics/75172-spiritual-guardians). If anyone wants to disagree, go read this thread first and you’ll realize I have already addressed your argument there.
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I read through half of your "proof" thread and you just kept saying the same things you say here with ~90% of people disagreeing. I saw nothing there that is any more convincing than what is here and since you won't address 2 simultaneous effects from a different spell I guess you aren't prepared to see how you are wrong here as well. That's fine. You can define an effect as you like and the rest of us will define it another way.
I would absolutely be fine with the enemy stacking this spell just like the players can. I also would absolutely never want to play at your table though witch suits both of us just fine I'm sure. In you other thread you clearly state how you would unfairly treat a player who disagrees with you about how things work.
Also
PC1 "I cast spirit guardians at level 4."
PC2 "That spell is awesome! I cast it at level 3."
DM "PC2 your spell takes affect and does nothing at all unless you run over there where there is no one to be affected by your spell and it will also do nothing. Enjoy concentrating on that!"
PC1 ";("
PC2 ";("
PC3 ";("
...etc
Yes, it would have to include quite a bit of my repeating myself, which is why I’m not doing it anymore.
I don’t care how many people disagree with it, that’s irrelevant. Just as I don’t care how many people disagree with the RAW on magic missile either. If ~90% of people jumped of the Tacony–Palmyra Bridge into the Delaware effing River it wouldn’t make it any more correct than they were there or than you are here.
And as to your claims of anything I have stated about unfairly treating a player, you would have to point that out. But as it’s irrelevant to this thread, please do it in that one. (Although I’m sure it pretty much added up to something along the lines of “this is my ruling, if you don’t like it then there’s the door.” And if you think that’s “unfair” then it is very good you are not at my table.)
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I wonder what would happen to a gargantuan creature who is partly in one spells area and partly in the other spells area while neither spell overlaps. Would they then affect that creature twice simply because the areas do not overlap? hmm... They would still affect the same creature though... But not combining in the same area.
The same with 2 walls of fire or hunger of hadar... Just because the creature is big and the areas don't overlap.
Oh, I’m so sowwy dat wules as witten is soooo unbewievabwy unfaiw to you and youw pwayews. *boohoo boohoo* 😭
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Sposta I agree with you on magic missile it's how we play it too. Thematically I picture it as you pouring magic into the spell which divides evenly among the bolts that form at the same time. People can play it however they want I'm not arguing that though. It looks like it's RAW based on what you've said for overlapping aoe effects as well although that'd be anti fun for my table so we wouldn't do that at least in the case of spirit guardians. Buff/Debuffs is generally what we won't allow to stack but I definitely see how it would be raw that other effects (damage) wouldn't either. It does make sense raw though as it's a similar vein to not allowing full sentinel parties.
I'm curious how you'd rule (under raw) say the AOE's were overlapping at the edge and the monster started at that point then moved further into the lesser or older effect where they don't overlap. Would you consider it already in the effect when it started it's turn or moving into it for the first time on it's turn. This is just hypothetical curiosity not really arguing any point because I'm really not sure. Does it still exist in that space and just not apply or does the stronger/newer one stop it from existing? Apologies if you answered this in the other thread I haven't read it.
Edit: Further looking at it again if they are the same level is the more recent one the more recent cast or more recent to occupy that space. I'm picturing a battle of stealing the spirits from each other MAH SPIRITS, NO MYYY SPIRITS lol.
As to any “logical points” of their (don’t want to assume gender as you have) stance: It is irrelevant that PC2 in that instance would not be able to use that spell because PC1 was already using it, and a “more potent“ version of that spell. What a shame, that two auras, won’t stack together. Just like any other spell that creates an aura, won’t stack with another copy of the same spell. Aura of life? No, won’t stack. Aura of purity? No won’t stack. Crusader’s mantle? Nope. Why? Because that’s the rules. So it doesn’t matter how many frowny-faces their players or their PCs make, it’s irrelevant. And since frowny faces are not what I would ever refer to as “logical points,” there was nothing for me to cleverly pick apart.
And I don’t just “claim myself” correct. I have sited multiple pieces of RAW as evidence, with highlights and links and everything. Nobody has presented a single piece of evidence to rebut me. Not one. Youse two keep clapping your hands over your ears and saying “nay nay” like that’s an argument. You can think my proof as poor as you want. But you haven’t presented any to refute me. So I cannot even claim your proof is “poor,” because it’s currently non-existent.
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Obviously those spells don't stack!!! Wow, lol.
Aura of life - you are no longer at 0 after the first aura brings you to 1. And resistance is resistance.
Aura of Purity - Yes, the effect of advantage on saves and disease immunity does not stack. Advantage does not stack.
Crusader's Mantle - yes, the effect of your attacks dealing an extra 1d4 damage does not stack. The effect is the increased damage, not the aura.
Spirit guardians - yes, the slow effect does not stack. The damage also does not "stack". it just happens for both spells.
I know you can't back down now because you've been pushing this so hard. But you are wrong here. The aura is not the effect. the aura is an aura inside of which the difficult terrain effect happens and creatures also take damage. Is it so hard to think of the different allied spirits ganging up on enemies in their range? It's like summoning creatures to fight for you. They surround you and attack things that come into range. They are tiny and can fly through the same space that your allies little guardians fly through. If they are shunted over by the other spell then the side of you they are pushed to should deal more damage due to concentration. Obviously that does not happen either.
I think the attack VS not attack it the basis of this argument. Though one could argue that the AOE would be saving throw vs no saving throw. I don't think Magic missile needs to be done one way or the other. Neither one increases or decreases the effectiveness of the spell really baring outside factors like the Evoker wizard feature.
If nobody can provide a single piece of actual evidence to refute my argument, then my argument stands. Go find yourselves some evidence, please. I would absolutely love to engage in an actual debate with you on this if you can find a single shred of evidence to support your arguments. So go find evidence, if it exists.
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Again, if you want to debate Magic Missile, take it to one of the three threads I linked all about debating Magic Missile, this thread is all about spirit guardians.
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Isn’t damage one of the ultimate “debuffs” in D&D?
In that scenario I would rule that where the auras overlap the more potent/recent are the effects that actually apply, even though the two aura’s do technically occupy the same space. So that monster is already in there aura, it just doesn’t effect the creature at all. Both auras are there (hence their overlapping), they just don’t both apply.
Me personally I rule that the “more potent” is the one cast at the higher level, and that the “more recent” is the one cast more recently. That means there’s no bookkeeping as to which aura is supplanting which at any given time. But “potency” (and I suppose in that case “recent-ness” would be determined on a DM/DM basis since we have no RAW for that.
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