No conditions remove the AC bonus. Even unconscious creatures retain their Dexterity bonus to AC, if they're using an AC calculation that factors in Dexterity.
The effects of the conditions can be found here. Mostly they're pretty clear, except for some edge cases involving Charmed and Frightened.
No conditions remove the AC bonus. Even unconscious creatures retain their Dexterity bonus to AC, if they're using an AC calculation that factors in Dexterity.
The effects of the conditions can be found here. Mostly they're pretty clear, except for some edge cases involving Charmed and Frightened.
Wow seriously. Surely if someone is prone or unconscious their speed of thought and action are effectively nullied ?
Yes, and the way that the rules represent that are by giving you advantage on attacks against them, and in the event of an unconscious target, having melee attacks be automatic criticals. There are logical reasons why you'd expect a dex bonus to be negated (which prior D&D editions have tried to take into account), but there's also game system reasons why you don't want to overcomplicate AC calculations. 5E has chosen advantage as a simple solution to an often endlessly complicated range of scenarios.
No conditions remove the AC bonus. Even unconscious creatures retain their Dexterity bonus to AC, if they're using an AC calculation that factors in Dexterity.
The effects of the conditions can be found here. Mostly they're pretty clear, except for some edge cases involving Charmed and Frightened.
Wow seriously. Surely if someone is prone or unconscious their speed of thought and action are effectively nullied ?
A creature attacking another Prone creature (within 5 ft) does so at advantage.
An attack against an Unconscious creature (any range) does so at advantage, and the attack is an automatic critical hit.
Don't worry: "flat-footed AC" is no longer a thing (thankfully), but the inherent negative effects of being in such a position have been carried through.
An unconscious creature is incapacitated, can't move or speak, and is unaware of its surroundings.
An incapacitated creature can't take actions or reactions.(*)
The creature drops whatever it's holding and falls prone.
A prone creature's only movement option is to crawl, unless it stands up and thereby ends the condition. (Already can't move*)
The creature has disadvantage on attack rolls. (Already can't make attacks*)
An attack roll against the creature has advantage if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature. Otherwise, the attack roll has disadvantage. (All attacks against the creature are at advantage no matter the distance**)
The creature automatically fails Strength and Dexterity saving throws.
Attack rolls against the creature have advantage (**).
Any attack that hits the creature is a critical hit if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
They went with advantage and it's the same or better. Most characters will have a maximum of +5 dex mod, and advantage is the equivalent of +5 to attack on average.
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So is this still the case if the "target" is also subject to a "Hold Monster/Person" spell. Im asking as there was a debate between the player and the DM in the game. The target had been knocked prone and had "Hold" cast on them. Despite this the DM still stated the DEX modified was in play as this was RAW. Im not so sure.
So is this still the case if the "target" is also subject to a "Hold Monster/Person" spell. Im asking as there was a debate between the player and the DM in the game. The target had been knocked prone and had "Hold" cast on them. Despite this the DM still stated the DEX modified was in play as this was RAW. Im not so sure.
The Paralysed condition does not adjust the target's AC : dex still applies. It gives advantage to all attacks, auto-crit if hit within 5 ft, and auto-fail Strength and Dex saving throws.
Unless something explicitly states it alters AC, then AC is not affected by any condition/spell/effect.
It may not make the most sense, but then this is a game not a simulation. It has gone away from having different ACs for different circumstances because people found that cumbersome to track, so it was streamlined for cleaner tracking in combat.
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They went with advantage and it's the same or better. Most characters will have a maximum of +5 dex mod, and advantage is the equivalent of +5 to attack on average.
The advantage = +5 idea is a misconception based on the passive skills rules. (Dis)Advantage does not always equal +/- 5, the math varies depending on chance of success.
A creature that needed to roll a 19 to hit, only has an effective +1.8 from advantage. Any creature that could only hit if they crit only gets an effective +0.95 from advantage. Only a creature that only needed to roll a 10 to hit effectively gets +5 from advantage. That is the math (I'm pretty sure, feel free to check).
The advantage = +5 idea is a misconception based on the passive skills rules. (Dis)Advantage does not always equal +/- 5, the math varies depending on chance of success.
Strictly speaking, you're right. In practice it's usually close enough, which is really the point here. Advantage/disadvantage is much faster than the rules of previous editions that toggled different parts of your AC based on the circumstances. It's not a perfect solution, but it follows the 80/20 rule: it's 20% of the complexity but does the same thing 80% of the time.
Yea it's +5 only if you need to roll an 11 or better (50% chance for success becomes 75% chance for success). From there (in either direction) it degrades pretty quickly. +3 or +4 is closer to the typical average benefit (because it's not often you need to roll a 19+ or can settle for 2+).
And it is an elegant solution and incredibly intuitive to understand for new players. I can see why they went with it over AC modifications. New players have a tough time with them as it is. Just look at any thread about Tortles or Warforged on the Barbarian or Monk forums to see that.
https://anydice.com/program/9f0d Calculate on that link and change the view to Graph and data to At Least and you'll see the distributions.
The advantage = +5 idea is a misconception based on the passive skills rules. (Dis)Advantage does not always equal +/- 5, the math varies depending on chance of success.
Strictly speaking, you're right. In practice it's usually close enough, which is really the point here. Advantage/disadvantage is much faster than the rules of previous editions that toggled different parts of your AC based on the circumstances. It's not a perfect solution, but it follows the 80/20 rule: it's 20% of the complexity but does the same thing 80% of the time.
More of a 40/20 rule if the math I just presented is any indication. Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with +/-5 for passive skills as a rule. I just hate when people incorrectly state that the same math applies to dice rolls, that is incorrect except for rolls that required a specifically a 10 to succeed, or can be considered close for rolls that succeed between 7-13.
More of a 40/20 rule if the math I just presented is any indication.
Eh. It's true that +5 is the absolute best case for advantage but it's also true most creatures don't get +5 to AC from DEX and hit rates rarely stray too far from 50% without disadvantage or advantage getting involved. So to me it's still a wash.
I have a question that doesn't apply to AC... but saves for a prone person/ creature. Caster uses Earthquake spell. Someone fails a Dex save and falls prone. If a fissure opens under said prone person, would they have disadvantage for a Dex save to avoid dropping into the fissure?
I have a question that doesn't apply to AC... but saves for a prone person/ creature. Caster uses Earthquake spell. Someone fails a Dex save and falls prone. If a fissure opens under said prone person, would they have disadvantage for a Dex save to avoid dropping into the fissure?
The Prone condition does not inflict disadvantage to Dex saves, so no.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
The prone condition doesn't impose disadvantage on any saving throws. The Earthquake spell doesn't impose disadvantage either. In fact, the spell fails to account for prone creatures since it mistakenly assumes any creature on the ground will be standing.
If you find that unsatisfying you can plead your case to the DM; they can always bend or break the rules and the rules for advantage and disadvantage explicitly give the DM permission to apply either one based on the circumstances.
Earthquake's use of "standing in a spot" for the fissure entry is unfortunate, since targets are likely to not be standing :)
If it described passing the save as "you move out of the way in time" and the fissures are 10 feet wide, I could see giving a prone creature disadvantage on that save since their movement is halved. But instead, the spell describes that a successful save means that the creature "moves with the fissure's edge as it opens" (as in, is carried by the moving earth), so the creature's ability to move distance isn't really relevant to the save. I wouldn't impose disadvantage.
The prone condition doesn't impose disadvantage on any saving throws. The Earthquake spell doesn't impose disadvantage either. In fact, the spell fails to account for prone creatures since it mistakenly assumes any creature on the ground will be standing.
It doesn't need to explicitly account for prone creatures; they're already on the ground, and being prone doesn't preclude them from having to make the same saving throws regardless. A creature can't become double-prone. :P
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
It doesn't need to explicitly account for prone creatures; they're already on the ground, and being prone doesn't preclude them from having to make the same saving throws regardless.
The spell says "A creature standing on a spot where a fissure opens must make a Dexterity saving throw or fall in." That excludes prone (or sitting) creatures in the same way it excludes creatures that aren't standing where a fissure opens. It's obviously a mistake and I'd never run it that way but the text is definitely specific to standing.
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If an enemy is Prone do they still get their AC bonus from Dexterity ?
Are there any conditions that would remove the AC bonus ?
No conditions remove the AC bonus. Even unconscious creatures retain their Dexterity bonus to AC, if they're using an AC calculation that factors in Dexterity.
The effects of the conditions can be found here. Mostly they're pretty clear, except for some edge cases involving Charmed and Frightened.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Wow seriously. Surely if someone is prone or unconscious their speed of thought and action are effectively nullied ?
Yes, and the way that the rules represent that are by giving you advantage on attacks against them, and in the event of an unconscious target, having melee attacks be automatic criticals. There are logical reasons why you'd expect a dex bonus to be negated (which prior D&D editions have tried to take into account), but there's also game system reasons why you don't want to overcomplicate AC calculations. 5E has chosen advantage as a simple solution to an often endlessly complicated range of scenarios.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
A creature attacking another Prone creature (within 5 ft) does so at advantage.
An attack against an Unconscious creature (any range) does so at advantage, and the attack is an automatic critical hit.
Don't worry: "flat-footed AC" is no longer a thing (thankfully), but the inherent negative effects of being in such a position have been carried through.
[edit] Might be easier to breakdown this way:
Prone:
Unconscious:
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
They went with advantage and it's the same or better. Most characters will have a maximum of +5 dex mod, and advantage is the equivalent of +5 to attack on average.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
So is this still the case if the "target" is also subject to a "Hold Monster/Person" spell. Im asking as there was a debate between the player and the DM in the game. The target had been knocked prone and had "Hold" cast on them. Despite this the DM still stated the DEX modified was in play as this was RAW. Im not so sure.
The Paralysed condition does not adjust the target's AC : dex still applies. It gives advantage to all attacks, auto-crit if hit within 5 ft, and auto-fail Strength and Dex saving throws.
Unless something explicitly states it alters AC, then AC is not affected by any condition/spell/effect.
It may not make the most sense, but then this is a game not a simulation. It has gone away from having different ACs for different circumstances because people found that cumbersome to track, so it was streamlined for cleaner tracking in combat.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Ok - thanks for the clarification
The advantage = +5 idea is a misconception based on the passive skills rules. (Dis)Advantage does not always equal +/- 5, the math varies depending on chance of success.
A creature that needed to roll a 19 to hit, only has an effective +1.8 from advantage. Any creature that could only hit if they crit only gets an effective +0.95 from advantage. Only a creature that only needed to roll a 10 to hit effectively gets +5 from advantage. That is the math (I'm pretty sure, feel free to check).
So yeah, I hate that misconception.
Strictly speaking, you're right. In practice it's usually close enough, which is really the point here. Advantage/disadvantage is much faster than the rules of previous editions that toggled different parts of your AC based on the circumstances. It's not a perfect solution, but it follows the 80/20 rule: it's 20% of the complexity but does the same thing 80% of the time.
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Yea it's +5 only if you need to roll an 11 or better (50% chance for success becomes 75% chance for success). From there (in either direction) it degrades pretty quickly. +3 or +4 is closer to the typical average benefit (because it's not often you need to roll a 19+ or can settle for 2+).
And it is an elegant solution and incredibly intuitive to understand for new players. I can see why they went with it over AC modifications. New players have a tough time with them as it is. Just look at any thread about Tortles or Warforged on the Barbarian or Monk forums to see that.
https://anydice.com/program/9f0d
Calculate on that link and change the view to Graph and data to At Least and you'll see the distributions.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
More of a 40/20 rule if the math I just presented is any indication. Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with +/-5 for passive skills as a rule. I just hate when people incorrectly state that the same math applies to dice rolls, that is incorrect except for rolls that required a specifically a 10 to succeed, or can be considered close for rolls that succeed between 7-13.
Eh. It's true that +5 is the absolute best case for advantage but it's also true most creatures don't get +5 to AC from DEX and hit rates rarely stray too far from 50% without disadvantage or advantage getting involved. So to me it's still a wash.
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I have a question that doesn't apply to AC... but saves for a prone person/ creature. Caster uses Earthquake spell. Someone fails a Dex save and falls prone. If a fissure opens under said prone person, would they have disadvantage for a Dex save to avoid dropping into the fissure?
The Prone condition does not inflict disadvantage to Dex saves, so no.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
The prone condition doesn't impose disadvantage on any saving throws. The Earthquake spell doesn't impose disadvantage either. In fact, the spell fails to account for prone creatures since it mistakenly assumes any creature on the ground will be standing.
If you find that unsatisfying you can plead your case to the DM; they can always bend or break the rules and the rules for advantage and disadvantage explicitly give the DM permission to apply either one based on the circumstances.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Earthquake's use of "standing in a spot" for the fissure entry is unfortunate, since targets are likely to not be standing :)
If it described passing the save as "you move out of the way in time" and the fissures are 10 feet wide, I could see giving a prone creature disadvantage on that save since their movement is halved. But instead, the spell describes that a successful save means that the creature "moves with the fissure's edge as it opens" (as in, is carried by the moving earth), so the creature's ability to move distance isn't really relevant to the save. I wouldn't impose disadvantage.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
It doesn't need to explicitly account for prone creatures; they're already on the ground, and being prone doesn't preclude them from having to make the same saving throws regardless. A creature can't become double-prone. :P
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
The spell says "A creature standing on a spot where a fissure opens must make a Dexterity saving throw or fall in." That excludes prone (or sitting) creatures in the same way it excludes creatures that aren't standing where a fissure opens. It's obviously a mistake and I'd never run it that way but the text is definitely specific to standing.
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