Okay, basically, I am just needing confirmation on the Subtle Spell metamagic option. Does Subtle Spell negate the need of both somatic and verbal components, or does the sorcerer need to pick one or the other. I personally believe that the sorcerer ignores both, but I have a few friends that think the opposite. If anyone can confirm, I would really appreciate it.
I read it as casting without both verbal and somatic. I know the description uses the word “or” but I don’t think the intent is choosing one or the other.
English uses the the same word for “inclusive or (both can be true)” and “exclusive or (one and only one must be true),” which can occasionally be confusing, yeah. That said, most writers are aware of this and usually use “or” on its own as inclusive and use different language to unambiguously convey an exclusive or, e.g. “you may ignore verbal or somatic components but not both.”
Or instead of using 'any' (strong inclusive identifier) they could use 'either' (exclusive identifier). In this case the subtle spell would read: '... without either somatic or verbal components.'
Or instead of using 'any' (strong inclusive identifier) they could use 'either' (exclusive identifier). In this case the subtle spell would read: '... without either somatic or verbal components.'
Unfortunately, either is not an unambiguous exclusive identifier. “Without either” can mean “pick one to omit but not both” OR it can be synonymous with “with neither,” omitting both. English is great.
I am assuming the people at your table are arguing these points due to Counterspell. This was addressed on a Sage Advice(which admittedly unless you're actively looking for rulings good luck finding them).
Or instead of using 'any' (strong inclusive identifier) they could use 'either' (exclusive identifier). In this case the subtle spell would read: '... without either somatic or verbal components.'
Unfortunately, either is not an unambiguous exclusive identifier. “Without either” can mean “pick one to omit but not both” OR it can be synonymous with “with neither,” omitting both. English is great.
English lurks in dark alleyways and waits for other unsuspecting languages to pass by so it can jump them and rob them of loose vocabulary and grammar.
"...any [this] or [that]..." is accepted as inclusive unless further clarified.
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Okay, basically, I am just needing confirmation on the Subtle Spell metamagic option. Does Subtle Spell negate the need of both somatic and verbal components, or does the sorcerer need to pick one or the other. I personally believe that the sorcerer ignores both, but I have a few friends that think the opposite. If anyone can confirm, I would really appreciate it.
'... without any somatic or verbal components.' that excludes both S and V.
I read it as casting without both verbal and somatic. I know the description uses the word “or” but I don’t think the intent is choosing one or the other.
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You may ignore both components and the the way the ability is written is grammatically correct.
I don't like that it's grammarly correct cause it's still grammarly confusing.
Freaking grammar. Needs to go get a life.
English uses the the same word for “inclusive or (both can be true)” and “exclusive or (one and only one must be true),” which can occasionally be confusing, yeah. That said, most writers are aware of this and usually use “or” on its own as inclusive and use different language to unambiguously convey an exclusive or, e.g. “you may ignore verbal or somatic components but not both.”
Or instead of using 'any' (strong inclusive identifier) they could use 'either' (exclusive identifier). In this case the subtle spell would read: '... without either somatic or verbal components.'
Unfortunately, either is not an unambiguous exclusive identifier. “Without either” can mean “pick one to omit but not both” OR it can be synonymous with “with neither,” omitting both. English is great.
I am assuming the people at your table are arguing these points due to Counterspell. This was addressed on a Sage Advice(which admittedly unless you're actively looking for rulings good luck finding them).
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/03/12/sorcerer-subtle-spell-vs-counterspell/
The RAI from the designers is that it removes both. RAW, also removes both but as stated above English is CRAZY.
Perhaps you are thinking of "somewhat subtle" metamagic, which removes verbal or somatic components but not both.
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English lurks in dark alleyways and waits for other unsuspecting languages to pass by so it can jump them and rob them of loose vocabulary and grammar.
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"...any [this] or [that]..." is accepted as inclusive unless further clarified.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.