Hey fam, so I'm making a Rope Dart subclass for my monk. Based primarily off Way of Kensei, but focusing on the Rope Dart and Darts in general as the primary weapons. Also specifically I am playing a grung that can poison its attacks for free. (Poison dart frog).
The question is, if I wanted to throw 2 daggers in a turn I can because daggers have the LIGHT feature. Whereas darts do not.
Am I way off base to think that darts should also have the LIGHT feature as part of its tags? Thanks!
Hey fam, so I'm making a Rope Dart subclass for my monk. Based primarily off Way of Kensei, but focusing on the Rope Dart and Darts in general as the primary weapons. Also specifically I am playing a grung that can poison its attacks for free. (Poison dart frog).
The question is, if I wanted to throw 2 daggers in a turn I can because daggers have the LIGHT feature. Whereas darts do not.
Am I way off base to think that darts should also have the LIGHT feature as part of its tags? Thanks!
In what way does the Light weapon property imply that you can throw two of them?
I assume you're talking about throwing one as your Attack action, and a second as your bonus action from Martial Arts? That's not due to the Light property; it's because a Dagger is a Monk Weapon.
Or are you talking about using the Two-Weapon Fighting bonus action to throw a second dagger? In either case, the Dart is neither a Monk Weapon nor Light, and that is on purpose.
However, since you're basing this on Kensei, you can designate Dart as one of your Kensei Weapons, and that would allow them to be used with Martial Arts (but still not Two-Weapon Fighting).
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I meant specifically Two Weapon fighting. With that you can throw 2 daggers, the second as a bonus action without modifiers to the damage, but not darts. And yes, I was making Darts a Kensei weapon.
I meant specifically Two Weapon fighting. With that you can throw 2 daggers, the second as a bonus action without modifiers to the damage, but not darts. And yes, I was making Darts a Kensei weapon.
I'd recommend avoiding Two-Weapon Fighting altogether as a Monk. Martial Arts is superior to it in almost every conceivable way.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I meant specifically Two Weapon fighting. With that you can throw 2 daggers, the second as a bonus action without modifiers to the damage, but not darts. And yes, I was making Darts a Kensei weapon.
I'd recommend avoiding Two-Weapon Fighting altogether as a Monk. Martial Arts is superior to it in almost every conceivable way.
... except for in the way of making a Bonus Action weapon attack, which is what this thread is specifically about.
To start with, what's the difference between a Dagger and a Dart? Both are d4, both have a thrown range of 20/60, both have Finesse and Thrown properties (which is frankly kind of weird on a Ranged Weapon like the Dart), both can use their choice of Strength or Dexterity, both are Sneak Attack eligible.... other than some cost and weight differences, the meaningful distinction is:
Dagger is a Melee Weapon, and Dart is a Ranged Weapon
#1 honestly has more meat to it than #2. Some consequences of this are:
Dagger can't benefit from the Archery fighting style, but Dart can.
Dart can't benefit from the Dueling fighting style, but Dagger can.
Dart can't be used with Two-Weapon Fighting at all, even with Dual Wielder to remove the Light requirement. Dagger can, even when used for ranged attacks.
Dagger can only benefit from the first two bullet points of Sharpshooter (no long range penalty, ignore Cover), but not the third (-5 to hit for +10 damage). Dart can use all three.
We're left in a bizarre situation where neither Dagger nor Dart is clearly "better" for a character attempting to specialize as a thrown weapon user.... do you want the accuracy of Archery fighting style (Dart), or the damage of Dueling (Dagger)? Do you want to be able to make a Bonus Action attack (Dagger), or to use Sharpshooter (Dart)? Added to the fact that Dual Wielder only really lets you access at most two weapons per turn, and that ranged weapons need the Ammunition property if they're going to bypass that as a hard cap on number of attacks made, and.... Darts just feel like an awkward afterthought, not good enough at their supposed niche to really justify specializing in them over a Dagger.
If you're considering a Monk subclass around Darts, I'd suggest the following subclass features to make them shine (none of which require messing with the Dart properties):
Treat them as a Monk Weapon, obviously :)
Allow them to be used as a part of Flurry of Blows (possibly not for the free Martial Arts bonus though?)
Allow them to be drawn for free as part of any number of ranged attacks on your turn, ignoring the normal restriction on one free drawn weapon interaction per turn... but only while not wearing armor/wearing a shield/wielding non-monk weapons (to mitigate the strength of splashing Monk on a Sharpshooter Fighter or Shield user)
Some other darty features... presumably you have some in mind? Being able to counterattack with a Dart as a Reaction when missed by a Ranged Attack? Maybe a mini-version of the Hunter's Volley? The ability to throw darts with mystical special effects, similar a Battlemaster or Arcane Archer? (I'd avoid letting Stunning Strike be used from range on Dart attacks though, too good)
I think it's a fun idea for a shuriken-focused ninja. Hopefully the new sourcebook that's coming out will incorporate some version of the Thrown Weapon fighting style, or something similar that serves to save Darts from the dustbin they'e been sitting in since release.
So for the purposes of better understanding... what, exactly, is the real world corollary for a [weapon]Dart[/weapon]? Is it a Kunai? But that would just be a flavored Dagger... Is it like a miniature Spear or Javelin? Is it just a Crossbow Bolt being thrown?
So for the purposes of better understanding... what, exactly, is the real world corollary for a [weapon]Dart[/weapon]? Is it a Kunai? But that would just be a flavored Dagger... Is it like a miniature Spear or Javelin? Is it just a Crossbow Bolt being thrown?
"Darts are missile weapons, designed to fly such that a sharp, often weighted point will strike first. They can be distinguished from javelins by fletching (i.e., feathers on the tail) and a shaft that is shorter and/or more flexible, and from arrows by the fact that they are not of the right length to use with a normal bow.
The term has been used to describe a wide variety of projectiles, from heavy spear-like ammunition for siege engines or spear-throwers to tiny poisoned needles for use in blowguns."
~Wikipedia
Thinking of a dart as an ergonomic crossbow bolt works. Forgotten Realms has a picture that includes what looks like a small throwing knife. Probably about the size of a long arrowhead.
So for the purposes of better understanding... what, exactly, is the real world corollary for a [weapon]Dart[/weapon]? Is it a Kunai? But that would just be a flavored Dagger... Is it like a miniature Spear or Javelin? Is it just a Crossbow Bolt being thrown?
Great points everyone. Specifically the class revolves around the Rope Dart weapon. A 10ft rope with a dart/dagger on the end. You see this weapon in movies and for show in real life. I liked the idea of a Grung (being able to poison piercing weapons on each attack) to be a Rope Dart specialist, and also utilize darts as its ranged weapon.
- make them monk weapons is a must - i like the idea of a hunter's volley (ill look into that) - Also the capstone ability of Kensei (i am using this a the basis of the class) sucks compared to the capstones of Open Hand and Long Death, etc. I was thinking of a large AOE like windmill attack with the Rope Dart. Striking everything in a 10ft radius. Dex save. Monk weapon damage die is D10 at that point, so say it is 4d10 per creature damaged. Save take half. Usable once per short rest. The trade off, is that it is centered on you, and even your allies need to make the saving throw.
Great points everyone. Specifically the class revolves around the Rope Dart weapon. A 10ft rope with a dart/dagger on the end. You see this weapon in movies and for show in real life. I liked the idea of a Grung (being able to poison piercing weapons on each attack) to be a Rope Dart specialist, and also utilize darts as its ranged weapon.
Ooooh, okay, you just want to use a Whip, and flavor it as having a bladed tip.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I'm not certain if there is a specific description for "Whip" in 5e, but Chain Whips were popular during the Jin Dynasty, which were basically metal whips with darts at the end.
Yeah, that's what they're talking about. There was even an obscure class kit entirely devoted to using whips from AD&D 2nd Edition. If you can find it, I'd say you should use that as your model for homebrewing.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Hey fam, so I'm making a Rope Dart subclass for my monk. Based primarily off Way of Kensei, but focusing on the Rope Dart and Darts in general as the primary weapons. Also specifically I am playing a grung that can poison its attacks for free. (Poison dart frog).
The question is, if I wanted to throw 2 daggers in a turn I can because daggers have the LIGHT feature. Whereas darts do not.
Am I way off base to think that darts should also have the LIGHT feature as part of its tags? Thanks!
In what way does the Light weapon property imply that you can throw two of them?
I assume you're talking about throwing one as your Attack action, and a second as your bonus action from Martial Arts? That's not due to the Light property; it's because a Dagger is a Monk Weapon.
Or are you talking about using the Two-Weapon Fighting bonus action to throw a second dagger? In either case, the Dart is neither a Monk Weapon nor Light, and that is on purpose.
However, since you're basing this on Kensei, you can designate Dart as one of your Kensei Weapons, and that would allow them to be used with Martial Arts (but still not Two-Weapon Fighting).
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
[Sage Advice]
Jeremy Crawford has responded to the issue of Darts not having the Light property and Two-Weapon Fighting at least twice.
It does not appear to be an oversight.
Maybe its because darts are throw away type weapons. Whereas daggers cost more and you normally would not carry 10 daggers.
I guess that's the way its going to stay then.
I meant specifically Two Weapon fighting. With that you can throw 2 daggers, the second as a bonus action without modifiers to the damage, but not darts. And yes, I was making Darts a Kensei weapon.
I'd recommend avoiding Two-Weapon Fighting altogether as a Monk. Martial Arts is superior to it in almost every conceivable way.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
... except for in the way of making a Bonus Action weapon attack, which is what this thread is specifically about.
To start with, what's the difference between a Dagger and a Dart? Both are d4, both have a thrown range of 20/60, both have Finesse and Thrown properties (which is frankly kind of weird on a Ranged Weapon like the Dart), both can use their choice of Strength or Dexterity, both are Sneak Attack eligible.... other than some cost and weight differences, the meaningful distinction is:
#1 honestly has more meat to it than #2. Some consequences of this are:
We're left in a bizarre situation where neither Dagger nor Dart is clearly "better" for a character attempting to specialize as a thrown weapon user.... do you want the accuracy of Archery fighting style (Dart), or the damage of Dueling (Dagger)? Do you want to be able to make a Bonus Action attack (Dagger), or to use Sharpshooter (Dart)? Added to the fact that Dual Wielder only really lets you access at most two weapons per turn, and that ranged weapons need the Ammunition property if they're going to bypass that as a hard cap on number of attacks made, and.... Darts just feel like an awkward afterthought, not good enough at their supposed niche to really justify specializing in them over a Dagger.
If you're considering a Monk subclass around Darts, I'd suggest the following subclass features to make them shine (none of which require messing with the Dart properties):
I think it's a fun idea for a shuriken-focused ninja. Hopefully the new sourcebook that's coming out will incorporate some version of the Thrown Weapon fighting style, or something similar that serves to save Darts from the dustbin they'e been sitting in since release.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
The darts in game are NOT supposed to be the darts you throw in a bar to hit a bullseye. They are like sharpened lawn darts.
For those of you too young, lawn darts was a game before people said "Hey, these are weapons", and it mostly went away.
So for the purposes of better understanding... what, exactly, is the real world corollary for a [weapon]Dart[/weapon]? Is it a Kunai? But that would just be a flavored Dagger... Is it like a miniature Spear or Javelin? Is it just a Crossbow Bolt being thrown?
Thinking of a dart as an ergonomic crossbow bolt works. Forgotten Realms has a picture that includes what looks like a small throwing knife. Probably about the size of a long arrowhead.
This is what D&D calls a dart:
https://www.spanish-swords.com/spears-and-halberds/9740-dart-roman-plumbata.html
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Great points everyone. Specifically the class revolves around the Rope Dart weapon. A 10ft rope with a dart/dagger on the end. You see this weapon in movies and for show in real life. I liked the idea of a Grung (being able to poison piercing weapons on each attack) to be a Rope Dart specialist, and also utilize darts as its ranged weapon.
- make them monk weapons is a must
- i like the idea of a hunter's volley (ill look into that)
- Also the capstone ability of Kensei (i am using this a the basis of the class) sucks compared to the capstones of Open Hand and Long Death, etc. I was thinking of a large AOE like windmill attack with the Rope Dart. Striking everything in a 10ft radius. Dex save. Monk weapon damage die is D10 at that point, so say it is 4d10 per creature damaged. Save take half. Usable once per short rest. The trade off, is that it is centered on you, and even your allies need to make the saving throw.
Ooooh, okay, you just want to use a Whip, and flavor it as having a bladed tip.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Basically yes
So do that. :p
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I'm not certain if there is a specific description for "Whip" in 5e, but Chain Whips were popular during the Jin Dynasty, which were basically metal whips with darts at the end.
Yeah, that's what they're talking about. There was even an obscure class kit entirely devoted to using whips from AD&D 2nd Edition. If you can find it, I'd say you should use that as your model for homebrewing.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
There was a spiked chain master prc in 3.5 that I remember loving, that might have inspiration too. http://dnd.arkalseif.info/classes/master-of-chains/index.html I believe has it.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.