In the adventure I'm running the npc has https://www.dndbeyond.com/magic-items/shatterspike. The adventure states he attacks and breaks the pcs weapons. Which is all fine and dandy until the pcs kill him and for the rest of the campaign they try to attack and break every weapon and armour anyone is wearing. Do I deal with it? Or do I say he had a special ability that their class doesn't allow, as the actual weapon doesn't state they can attack wielded objects directly?
I think you're right. Just tell them the truth--he had a special magic item that let him do that mid combat. Weapons and armor are designed to withstand combat damage, or they'd be pretty bad on the battlefield.
What happened to the magic weapon after he died, though? Is a PC using it? If they got a hold of it, guess they could break objects now too.
They are going to face him Sunday! I'm sure someone will pick it up off his corpse after the battle.
And yeah it'd be like anything adamantine iirc. I just don't want to deal with an entire campaign of, "I sunder this and that" when it's not really a rule in 5e. It's slightly annoying that the adventure says to do it without giving me basic guidelines and such. I have to dig through the dmg and assume weapon hp based off the generic charts 😂 where does a sword fit between Tiny (bottle, lock) and Small (chest, lute)? I feel like a sword is lute size-ish in length and a dagger would be bottle sized?
Truthfully I'd give him another annoying ability instead of breaking gear, just to keep that can of worms securely locked away forever. Rust Monsters are bad enough, but at least in their case it's an unnatural ability that players can never loot and use.
"SHATTERSPIKE Weapon (longsword), uncommon (requires attunement) You have a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls you make with this magic weapon. If it hits an object, the hit is automatically a critical hit, and it can deal bludgeoning or slashing damage to the object (your choice). Further, damage from nonmagical sources can't harm the weapon."
"Sir Braford uses Shatterspike (see appendix A) to destroy his foe's weapon, if possible."
RAW, the sword says nothing about attacking weapons wielded by other creatures. It just says that it automatically does critical damage against an object it hits. The sword is hardened to damage objects. If you look up the attacking objects rules in the DMG p246, it gives high AC values to difficult to damage materials. However, it also says "An object's Armor Class is a measure of how difficult it is to deal damage to the object when striking it (because the object has no chance of dodging out of the way)". A wielded weapon is always dodging out of the way so the AC here represented a MINIMUM required to do damage to the item ... since the object is moving and thus "dodging" it would be reasonable to apply disadvantage. The AC for iron or steel (the typical material for most weapons) is 19. Hitting 19 with disadvantage is challenging. The object would also be resilient to damage so the DM could easily assign a metal weapon 18 (max in table) or higher hit points.
When I ran this I just used it as a +1 weapon that can be used to damage other objects (like batter down doors, slice ropes, etc). I just left out the aspect of attacking a wielded weapon since the chances of it being successful are so small if I use a version of the object rules presented in the DMG.
Sir Braford uses Shatterspike (see appendix A) to destroy his foe’s weapon, if possible.
I look at that and shrug, mentally thinking, "Yeah, there's not really any rules for that and it's not something I want in my game" so .... it isn't possible.
For what it's worth, I began a campaign using the adventure in question and had the NPC destroy one of my players' weapons with Shatterspike. The players then beat the encounter and took the sword, which they had for the rest of the campaign... and hardly ever used. They would use it on occasion to break open a door or something when the party rogue wasn't around, but never to attack an opponents weapon/armor. No player is going to want to use their action attacking objects rather than enemies, and if they do, is it really that big a deal?
In the adventure I'm running the npc has https://www.dndbeyond.com/magic-items/shatterspike. The adventure states he attacks and breaks the pcs weapons. Which is all fine and dandy until the pcs kill him and for the rest of the campaign they try to attack and break every weapon and armour anyone is wearing. Do I deal with it? Or do I say he had a special ability that their class doesn't allow, as the actual weapon doesn't state they can attack wielded objects directly?
TIA
It is a bad port from 3E. Being an Evil DM I would say Sir Branford had the ability not the sword. NPCS CHEAT. And from the Adventure League catalogue. Shatterspike can’t be used to destroy magic items, unless the item itself specifically provides an AC, hit points, etc. in its description. So I would not allow pcs to hit weapons in combats except for a Disarm
No player is going to want to use their action attacking objects rather than enemies, and if they do, is it really that big a deal?
All of this. There aren't typically going to be many instances in which attacking an enemy's gear would be more useful than just attacking the enemy directly.
For what it's worth, you can just tell your players the feature only applies to objects that aren't being worn/wielded.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
As David42 noted, the AC of a weapon/armor is likely going to be at least 19. With or without disadvantage, there's a decent probability that an attack on the object will miss, and a hit against the actual enemy is always better than a miss on equipment.
Then there's the issue of HP for the object. You have a lot of discretion here, but the basic guidelines would put a set of armor (for a medium creature) as 4d8. You can use an average of 18 HP, roll for it, max it, use something different, etc... whatever you want. Weapons that aren't two-handed or Heavy should have a little less HP. You can also give objects resistance to Bludgeoning/Piercing/Slashing damage with orwithout being bypassed by a magical weapon--I'd recommend doing this instead of imposing disadvantage on the attack roll.
Point being, a PC using Shatterspike would (on a hit) roll damage of 2d8+1+STR mod. Assuming a maxed Strength ability score of 20, the minimum damage dealt would be 8, and a max of 24. They would need to roll >=6 on each damage die in order to break average (18 HP) armor. If you also gave resistance to the armor, then it is impossible for them to break the item with one attack. A non-broken object is fully functional (unless you rule otherwise), so the creature wearing it has their full AC until it's totally broken. That creates a practical minimum of two attacks dumped before the PCs see a practical benefit to breaking enemy equipment.
Following that train of thought, if your PCs realize they aren't going to be able to just break anything with one hit, they'll start thinking more tactically about when it would actually be a good idea to try breaking stuff in combat.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Indeed. I went through the process of figuring that out beforehand, and it actually took two attacks for the NPC to break the PCs weapon, now that I think about it. It was climatic in the moment - a level 1 or 2 character losing their weapon in the depths of a dungeon is pretty scary for them - but is a terrible strategy in general.
This post may be a bit old, but I start running DotMM with Sunless Citadel and Forge of Fury to make it a 1 to 20, after looking up a few posts I really appreciate the Disadvantage idea if the object is wielded, and so this may be a bit scary for my players, and they can Waist some turns to make some further encounters a bit easier. I'm thinking to drop the AC Armor and Shields gives by 50% if the item HP are below 50%.
Thanks for this post, it really helps me to decide how I want to handle it for my campaign.
Unless noted otherwise, any PC can already attack and deal damage to objects wether worn/carried or not. AllShatterspikedoes is making the hit automatically a critical hit, thus dealing more damage. Attacking object worn or carried by other creatures is bound to attrack a lot of unwanted attention and put breaker hobo in trouble with the law the same way it does for murder hobo.
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In the adventure I'm running the npc has https://www.dndbeyond.com/magic-items/shatterspike. The adventure states he attacks and breaks the pcs weapons. Which is all fine and dandy until the pcs kill him and for the rest of the campaign they try to attack and break every weapon and armour anyone is wearing. Do I deal with it? Or do I say he had a special ability that their class doesn't allow, as the actual weapon doesn't state they can attack wielded objects directly?
TIA
Call me Knives.
I think you're right. Just tell them the truth--he had a special magic item that let him do that mid combat. Weapons and armor are designed to withstand combat damage, or they'd be pretty bad on the battlefield.
What happened to the magic weapon after he died, though? Is a PC using it? If they got a hold of it, guess they could break objects now too.
But if they really want to do it, here's what someone else said: https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/97956/how-can-i-attack-an-enemys-weapon
They are going to face him Sunday! I'm sure someone will pick it up off his corpse after the battle.
And yeah it'd be like anything adamantine iirc. I just don't want to deal with an entire campaign of, "I sunder this and that" when it's not really a rule in 5e. It's slightly annoying that the adventure says to do it without giving me basic guidelines and such. I have to dig through the dmg and assume weapon hp based off the generic charts 😂 where does a sword fit between Tiny (bottle, lock) and Small (chest, lute)? I feel like a sword is lute size-ish in length and a dagger would be bottle sized?
Call me Knives.
Truthfully I'd give him another annoying ability instead of breaking gear, just to keep that can of worms securely locked away forever. Rust Monsters are bad enough, but at least in their case it's an unnatural ability that players can never loot and use.
I am one with the Force. The Force is with me.
Yeah I may do that. It's bad enough in my other game they'll be encountering green slime 😂
Call me Knives.
Here is the text ...
"SHATTERSPIKE
Weapon (longsword), uncommon (requires attunement)
You have a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls you make with this magic weapon. If it hits an object, the hit is automatically a critical hit, and it can deal bludgeoning or slashing damage to the object (your choice). Further, damage from nonmagical sources can't harm the weapon."
"Sir Braford uses Shatterspike (see appendix A) to destroy his foe's weapon, if possible."
RAW, the sword says nothing about attacking weapons wielded by other creatures. It just says that it automatically does critical damage against an object it hits. The sword is hardened to damage objects. If you look up the attacking objects rules in the DMG p246, it gives high AC values to difficult to damage materials. However, it also says "An object's Armor Class is a measure of how difficult it is to deal damage to the object when striking it (because the object has no chance of dodging out of the way)". A wielded weapon is always dodging out of the way so the AC here represented a MINIMUM required to do damage to the item ... since the object is moving and thus "dodging" it would be reasonable to apply disadvantage. The AC for iron or steel (the typical material for most weapons) is 19. Hitting 19 with disadvantage is challenging. The object would also be resilient to damage so the DM could easily assign a metal weapon 18 (max in table) or higher hit points.
When I ran this I just used it as a +1 weapon that can be used to damage other objects (like batter down doors, slice ropes, etc). I just left out the aspect of attacking a wielded weapon since the chances of it being successful are so small if I use a version of the object rules presented in the DMG.
Yup, the text
I look at that and shrug, mentally thinking, "Yeah, there's not really any rules for that and it's not something I want in my game" so .... it isn't possible.
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For what it's worth, I began a campaign using the adventure in question and had the NPC destroy one of my players' weapons with Shatterspike. The players then beat the encounter and took the sword, which they had for the rest of the campaign... and hardly ever used. They would use it on occasion to break open a door or something when the party rogue wasn't around, but never to attack an opponents weapon/armor. No player is going to want to use their action attacking objects rather than enemies, and if they do, is it really that big a deal?
It is a bad port from 3E. Being an Evil DM I would say Sir Branford had the ability not the sword. NPCS CHEAT. And from the Adventure League catalogue. Shatterspike can’t be used to destroy magic items, unless the item itself specifically provides an AC, hit points, etc. in its description. So I would not allow pcs to hit weapons in combats except for a Disarm
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Thanks everyone!
Call me Knives.
All of this. There aren't typically going to be many instances in which attacking an enemy's gear would be more useful than just attacking the enemy directly.
For what it's worth, you can just tell your players the feature only applies to objects that aren't being worn/wielded.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Specifically breaking a shield or armor to lower an opponent’s AC and make it easier for everyone to hit them is very useful.
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It sure would, if it were quick and effective... but the loose guidelines of attacking objects is neither of those things. Here's a link to the DMG section on object AC/HP.
As David42 noted, the AC of a weapon/armor is likely going to be at least 19. With or without disadvantage, there's a decent probability that an attack on the object will miss, and a hit against the actual enemy is always better than a miss on equipment.
Then there's the issue of HP for the object. You have a lot of discretion here, but the basic guidelines would put a set of armor (for a medium creature) as 4d8. You can use an average of 18 HP, roll for it, max it, use something different, etc... whatever you want. Weapons that aren't two-handed or Heavy should have a little less HP. You can also give objects resistance to Bludgeoning/Piercing/Slashing damage with or without being bypassed by a magical weapon--I'd recommend doing this instead of imposing disadvantage on the attack roll.
Point being, a PC using Shatterspike would (on a hit) roll damage of 2d8+1+STR mod. Assuming a maxed Strength ability score of 20, the minimum damage dealt would be 8, and a max of 24. They would need to roll >=6 on each damage die in order to break average (18 HP) armor. If you also gave resistance to the armor, then it is impossible for them to break the item with one attack. A non-broken object is fully functional (unless you rule otherwise), so the creature wearing it has their full AC until it's totally broken. That creates a practical minimum of two attacks dumped before the PCs see a practical benefit to breaking enemy equipment.
Following that train of thought, if your PCs realize they aren't going to be able to just break anything with one hit, they'll start thinking more tactically about when it would actually be a good idea to try breaking stuff in combat.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Indeed. I went through the process of figuring that out beforehand, and it actually took two attacks for the NPC to break the PCs weapon, now that I think about it. It was climatic in the moment - a level 1 or 2 character losing their weapon in the depths of a dungeon is pretty scary for them - but is a terrible strategy in general.
This post may be a bit old, but I start running DotMM with Sunless Citadel and Forge of Fury to make it a 1 to 20, after looking up a few posts I really appreciate the Disadvantage idea if the object is wielded, and so this may be a bit scary for my players, and they can Waist some turns to make some further encounters a bit easier. I'm thinking to drop the AC Armor and Shields gives by 50% if the item HP are below 50%.
Thanks for this post, it really helps me to decide how I want to handle it for my campaign.
Unless noted otherwise, any PC can already attack and deal damage to objects wether worn/carried or not. All Shatterspike does is making the hit automatically a critical hit, thus dealing more damage. Attacking object worn or carried by other creatures is bound to attrack a lot of unwanted attention and put breaker hobo in trouble with the law the same way it does for murder hobo.