Whenever you use a spell of 1st level or higher to restore hit points to a creature, the creature regains additional hit points equal to 2 + the spell’s level.
Hmm. I told my player I ruled out "no" for the Goodberry spell because he is not casting a spell to restore hit points to a creature, he is casting a spell that causes up to ten berries appear in his hand, it just so happens that eating a berry will have an effect of healing. Does this mean that the Disciple of Life ability remains in the berry for 24 hrs, since that the expiry of the berry?
Thanks, I checked around as well and all seem to agree that it does affect it. I'm going to house rule the wording of Disciple of Life into "Whenever you use a spell of 1st level or higher that has an effect of healing or restoring hit points to a creature, the creature regains additional hit points equal to 2 + the spell's level." That way, it will be clear on what it does.
Thanks, I checked around as well and all seem to agree that it does affect it. I'm going to house rule the wording of Disciple of Life into "Whenever you use a spell of 1st level or higher that has an effect of healing or restoring hit points to a creature, the creature regains additional hit points equal to 2 + the spell's level." That way, it will be clear on what it does.
I usually find it easier to just tell the folks in the game whether life cleric feature works with goodberry or not rather than rewording the Disciple of Life feature to try to clarify it. This is especially true when the most common interpretation already is that it does work which appears to be the intent of your re-wording.
I have a 1 life cleric/X mood druid in a game I am running and at 9th level, the party usually has a ridiculous amount of healing available between encounters since the character expends most of their spell slots before a long rest sometimes creating 100+ good berries that range from healing 4 to 8 hit points each. :)
tbh, iRAW its fuzzy at best whether it would work. There are arguments for both. However if you allow every berry to gain the bonus, it quadruples the total healing of the spell. It makes it way more powerful. If you want to allow it, but keep it less powerful. have it only affect a single berry. Its balanced and is still within some readings of the rules.
The magic in goodberry is only present for the instantaneous duration of casting. The result is basically a weak healing potion/super nourishment with an expiration date. I would rule that because the spell only lasts for an instant, the actual spell isn’t doing the healing (it’s creating). Eating a Goodberry is the same as drinking a potion of healing, and the bonus from the Life Cleric feature doesn’t apply
The magic in goodberry is only present for the instantaneous duration of casting. The result is basically a weak healing potion/super nourishment with an expiration date. I would rule that because the spell only lasts for an instant, the actual spell isn’t doing the healing (it’s creating). Eating a Goodberry is the same as drinking a potion of healing, and the bonus from the Life Cleric feature doesn’t apply
This is how I rule as well.
Apparently Jeremy Crawford disagrees with that. Of course, according to JC, characters should also not be able to feed Goodberries to unconscious party members either.
I have a 1 life cleric/X mood druid in a game I am running and at 9th level, the party usually has a ridiculous amount of healing available between encounters since the character expends most of their spell slots before a long rest sometimes creating 100+ good berries that range from healing 4 to 8 hit points each. :)
A player of mine is a cleric/druid, with the Life domain. Does his Disciple of Life ability affect Goodberry and Healing Spirit?
Yes, it does, and has been clarified in the officialSAC as working as intended.
If I’m a cleric/druid with the Disciple of Life feature, does the goodberry spell benefit from the feature?
Yes. The Disciple of Life feature would make each berry restore 4 hit points, instead of 1, assuming you cast goodberry with a 1st-level spell slot.
I'm not a fan of this interaction, but it is what it is.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I would always balance healing in favor of the best result. Since healing in 5e is almost always less than damage. That same cleric could have spend his spell slot on bless, leading to more power attacks; or guiding bolt, doing damage and a nice setup for a power attack.
Thus make healing be fun and powerful is fine.
If your game breaks because some one healed 4 hp more than expected, may I suggest to add a couple of extra goblins in the next encounter.
The thing is. Diciple of life states, that the Cleric has to use the spell. So if another character eats a goodberry, they would not benefit from diciple of life, as it has to be used by the cleric, not cast.
FWIW, it looks like the in the 2024 version of the Life Cleric, the Disciple Of Life ability will only grant extra healing on the turn the spell was cast, so things like Goodberry and Healing Spirit which restore health on subsequent turns will more explicitly be unaffected by it.
Since Disciple of Life affects an item (goodberry) created by another spell does that mean Disciple of Life can affect any healing spells cast by... summons?
Picture this, a Life Cleric casts Conjure Celestial to summon a Quatl, the Quatl can cast Cure Wounds 3/day, would Disciple of Life apply to that specific Cure Wounds? Since it comes from something (quatl - like the goodberry) created by a spell?
Yes exactly. When someone eats one of your goodberries, do you "use" a spell at that moment to cure the one eating it? Or is the goodberrie that provides the healing at that point, not the Life Cleric? I gave the example of a summon with a healing spell to illustrate the problem with allowing Disciple of Life to work on Goodberrie. "You" don't use a spell to cure anyone when someone eats your goodberrie. Just like "you" don't use a spell when your summon does. If someone/something your spell creates (a goodberrie) is allowed to be called "use a spell", then why not a spell cast by one your summons?
It's a good thing Wizards is aware of such issues and they are going to change Disciple of Life to work only on your turn to avoid this problem. I just wish updates like this (that clarify how rules work) would also be available as errata for 5E instead of just rules for the new versions.
Yes exactly. When someone eats one of your goodberries, do you "use" a spell at that moment to cure the one eating it? Or is the goodberrie that provides the healing at that point, not the Life Cleric? I gave the example of a summon with a healing spell to illustrate the problem with allowing Disciple of Life to work on Goodberrie. "You" don't use a spell to cure anyone when someone eats your goodberrie. Just like "you" don't use a spell when your summon does. If someone/something your spell creates (a goodberrie) is allowed to be called "use a spell", then why not a spell cast by one your summons?
But that isn't even remotely similar situations. The healing you receive from eating a Goodberry is set by the spell when it is cast. So a feature that affects the spells you cast could reasonably affect your casting of Goodberry and set the healing it does to be a bit higher.
The "similarity" is that in both cases the healing isn't done by "you", as clearly stated by Disciple of Life. Maybe a summoned Quatl using Cure Wounds was a bad example, but what I'm trying to say is that the spell Goodberry itself doesn't do any healing. Also, related, and often not discussed, is the level 6th feature of Disciple of Life, Blessed Healer:
Beginning at 6th level, the healing spells you cast on others heal you as well. When you cast a spell of 1st level or higher that restores hit points to a creature other than you, you regain hit points equal to 2 + the spell's level.
A player of mine is a cleric/druid, with the Life domain. Does his Disciple of Life ability affect Goodberry and Healing Spirit?
Whenever you use a spell of 1st level or higher to restore hit points to a creature, the creature regains additional hit points equal to 2 + the spell’s level.
Raw: Yes
Hmm. I told my player I ruled out "no" for the Goodberry spell because he is not casting a spell to restore hit points to a creature, he is casting a spell that causes up to ten berries appear in his hand, it just so happens that eating a berry will have an effect of healing. Does this mean that the Disciple of Life ability remains in the berry for 24 hrs, since that the expiry of the berry?
Technically yes, but you are well within your rights to say no to it.
Goodberry can get cheesy.
Thanks, I checked around as well and all seem to agree that it does affect it. I'm going to house rule the wording of Disciple of Life into "Whenever you use a spell of 1st level or higher that has an effect of healing or restoring hit points to a creature, the creature regains additional hit points equal to 2 + the spell's level." That way, it will be clear on what it does.
I usually find it easier to just tell the folks in the game whether life cleric feature works with goodberry or not rather than rewording the Disciple of Life feature to try to clarify it. This is especially true when the most common interpretation already is that it does work which appears to be the intent of your re-wording.
I have a 1 life cleric/X mood druid in a game I am running and at 9th level, the party usually has a ridiculous amount of healing available between encounters since the character expends most of their spell slots before a long rest sometimes creating 100+ good berries that range from healing 4 to 8 hit points each. :)
Many DMs I talk to say it does not stack on Goodberry for the reasons you mention. You are summoning berries, not healing a player.
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tbh, iRAW its fuzzy at best whether it would work. There are arguments for both. However if you allow every berry to gain the bonus, it quadruples the total healing of the spell. It makes it way more powerful. If you want to allow it, but keep it less powerful. have it only affect a single berry. Its balanced and is still within some readings of the rules.
The magic in goodberry is only present for the instantaneous duration of casting. The result is basically a weak healing potion/super nourishment with an expiration date. I would rule that because the spell only lasts for an instant, the actual spell isn’t doing the healing (it’s creating). Eating a Goodberry is the same as drinking a potion of healing, and the bonus from the Life Cleric feature doesn’t apply
This is how I rule as well.
Apparently Jeremy Crawford disagrees with that. Of course, according to JC, characters should also not be able to feed Goodberries to unconscious party members either.
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Which is exactly why it shouldn’t work.
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Yes, it does, and has been clarified in the official SAC as working as intended.
I'm not a fan of this interaction, but it is what it is.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I would always balance healing in favor of the best result. Since healing in 5e is almost always less than damage. That same cleric could have spend his spell slot on bless, leading to more power attacks; or guiding bolt, doing damage and a nice setup for a power attack.
Thus make healing be fun and powerful is fine.
If your game breaks because some one healed 4 hp more than expected, may I suggest to add a couple of extra goblins in the next encounter.
Empower the players! Then kick them in the teeth!
The thing is. Diciple of life states, that the Cleric has to use the spell. So if another character eats a goodberry, they would not benefit from diciple of life, as it has to be used by the cleric, not cast.
FWIW, it looks like the in the 2024 version of the Life Cleric, the Disciple Of Life ability will only grant extra healing on the turn the spell was cast, so things like Goodberry and Healing Spirit which restore health on subsequent turns will more explicitly be unaffected by it.
Since Disciple of Life affects an item (goodberry) created by another spell does that mean Disciple of Life can affect any healing spells cast by... summons?
Picture this, a Life Cleric casts Conjure Celestial to summon a Quatl, the Quatl can cast Cure Wounds 3/day, would Disciple of Life apply to that specific Cure Wounds? Since it comes from something (quatl - like the goodberry) created by a spell?
Discipline of Life works whenever you use a spell of 1st level or higher , not other creature such as one summoned.
Yes exactly. When someone eats one of your goodberries, do you "use" a spell at that moment to cure the one eating it? Or is the goodberrie that provides the healing at that point, not the Life Cleric? I gave the example of a summon with a healing spell to illustrate the problem with allowing Disciple of Life to work on Goodberrie. "You" don't use a spell to cure anyone when someone eats your goodberrie. Just like "you" don't use a spell when your summon does. If someone/something your spell creates (a goodberrie) is allowed to be called "use a spell", then why not a spell cast by one your summons?
It's a good thing Wizards is aware of such issues and they are going to change Disciple of Life to work only on your turn to avoid this problem. I just wish updates like this (that clarify how rules work) would also be available as errata for 5E instead of just rules for the new versions.
But that isn't even remotely similar situations.
The healing you receive from eating a Goodberry is set by the spell when it is cast. So a feature that affects the spells you cast could reasonably affect your casting of Goodberry and set the healing it does to be a bit higher.
The "similarity" is that in both cases the healing isn't done by "you", as clearly stated by Disciple of Life. Maybe a summoned Quatl using Cure Wounds was a bad example, but what I'm trying to say is that the spell Goodberry itself doesn't do any healing. Also, related, and often not discussed, is the level 6th feature of Disciple of Life, Blessed Healer:
Would that trigger with Goodberry?