Part of the problem might be that the Character Builder allows you to pick Fighting Initiate without meeting the prerequisite. I believe this is a limitation in the system, it can only check against armor proficiency if you try to home-brew it, so it falls to us to make note of the requirements and choose accordingly.
True, but you do character creation in order, and race is chosen before class. At the point you take Variant Human and choose the feat, the character has no proficiencies.
I've yet to meet a DM that would enforce that. *shrug*
True, but you do character creation in order, and race is chosen before class. At the point you take Variant Human and choose the feat, the character has no proficiencies.
I've yet to meet a DM that would enforce that. *shrug*
That may be true, but this is the Rules and Game Mechanics forum.
True, but you do character creation in order, and race is chosen before class. At the point you take Variant Human and choose the feat, the character has no proficiencies.
I've yet to meet a DM that would enforce that. *shrug*
That may be true, but this is the Rules and Game Mechanics forum.
So if you take 1 level of fighter and the unarmed fighting style and then 2 levels of Monk, shouldn't all unarmed attacks including flurry of blows do 1d8? The dndbeyond character sheet isn't updating that way. Is there an official ruling I'm missing?
I think it's a quirk of the system. The Unarmed Fighting Style doesn't update the Unarmed Strike entry in the same way as the Monk's Martial Arts. Instead it creates two new attacks called "Fighting Style: Unarmed Fighting" and "Fighting Style: Unarmed Fighting (armed)" showing the D8 and D6 attacks respectively.
True, but you do character creation in order, and race is chosen before class. At the point you take Variant Human and choose the feat, the character has no proficiencies.
From the Basic Rules, Chapter 1: Step-By-Step Characters.
Once you have a character in mind, follow these steps in order, …
Retroactive application is possible, otherwise your race wouldn't give you any ASI since you have none at that step yet, being only determined later.
I don't think Variant Human is intended to restrict feat that would have class or proficiency prerequisits obtained during character creation steps.
@JeremyECrawford The steps of character creation in chapter 1 of the "Player's Handbook" are but one way you can approach making your character. The order of the steps has no rules weight. #DnD
Also prior to unarmed fighting style you could the the same amount of damage increase from Dueling fighting style and a Yklwa which is a one handed d8 weapon.
+4 to damage with Extra Attack so you had the same benefit albeit a bit later (level 5 instead of level 1).
I have skimmed through most of this, am not seeing a clear answer to my questions, does the fighter's Unarmed Fighting fighting style affect the martial art's die progression? (i.e. does it start the progression at D6 for levels 1-10, or does it modify the martials die to d6, d8, d10, d12?
I would like to point out that the monk is also able to make an additional unarmed attack as a bonus action at level 1, which in my estimation it quite a bit more potent then a rapier. So a 1st Lv. Human V. with the Unarmed Fighting Style via the Fighter Initiate feat would be doing 2d8+Dex Mod Dmg per turn, assuming they hit with both attacks. And that is without even mentioning Flurry of Blows which they get access to at 2nd Lv.
All things considered, I think this is quite a viable option for monks and that the D8 for unarmed strikes is a vast improvement on the D4 for anyone willing to invest in the feat.
For reference, monk does indeed beats out fighter in terms of purely unarmed damage for a large majority of levels (not level 20, tied for 11-16 i think), someone made a great post outlining the dpr of both but I don't know which thread it was in so oh well.
The unarmed fighting style is technically worse than the Dueling Fighting Style for monks (as a monk can use a d8/d10 weapon as soon as level 2), however it is very viable for people either wanting to completely ignore the use of weapons (flavor is free but it doesn't hurt to make it a little more tangible), or those who are really into grappling for whatever reason.
It doesn't modify the martial arts die at all. The martial arts die is used for numerous other monk features.
It merely allows you to use the feat damage for attacks instead.
So, am I understanding correctly that if my Fighter (with the Unarmed Fighting Style) dips 2 levels into Monk for Martial Arts and Ki (Flurry of Blows), then the extra attacks from Martial Arts and Flurry of Blows will both be at 1d8, as opposed to 1d4?
Yes, provided you are not wielding a monk weapon during the turn. If you are, you still get to make the extra unarmed attacks, but they'll be at 1d6 each.
It doesn't modify the martial arts die at all. The martial arts die is used for numerous other monk features.
It merely allows you to use the feat damage for attacks instead.
So, am I understanding correctly that if my Fighter (with the Unarmed Fighting Style) dips 2 levels into Monk for Martial Arts and Ki (Flurry of Blows), then the extra attacks from Martial Arts and Flurry of Blows will both be at 1d8, as opposed to 1d4?
Yes, provided you are not wielding a monk weapon during the turn. If you are, you still get to make the extra unarmed attacks, but they'll be at 1d6 each.
Roger that!
So, 1d6 if you're holding something, and the 1d8 kicks in if you're not carrying anything at all in your hands? And you don't have to default down to the d4 if you only took a 2-level dip?
Sign me UP.
Your hands don't strictly need to be free for the d8 damage die, you just can't be wielding a weapon or wearing a shield.
You could however have 2 opponents grappled and be cracking their heads together for that 1d8 damage.
You would probably want to get a Eldritch Claw Tattoo to make your Unarmed Strikes considered magical if you don't want to go for 6 levels of monk.
Could de monk combine this fighting style with Draconic Strike?
Yes partially since the Unarmed Fighting Style increase your unarmed strike damage among other things and Draconic Strike change the bludgeoning damage type to acid, cold, fire, lightning, or poison. This would only change the unarmed strike damage though, not the bludgeoning damage that you deal to one creature grappled by you at the start of your turns since this isn't from an unarmed strike.
A good point.
Part of the problem might be that the Character Builder allows you to pick Fighting Initiate without meeting the prerequisite. I believe this is a limitation in the system, it can only check against armor proficiency if you try to home-brew it, so it falls to us to make note of the requirements and choose accordingly.
I've yet to meet a DM that would enforce that. *shrug*
Sterling - V. Human Bard 3 (College of Art) - [Pic] - [Traits] - in Bards: Dragon Heist (w/ Mansion) - Jasper's [Pic] - Sterling's [Sigil]
Tooltips Post (2024 PHB updates) - incl. General Rules
>> New FOW threat & treasure tables: fow-advanced-threat-tables.pdf fow-advanced-treasure-table.pdf
That may be true, but this is the Rules and Game Mechanics forum.
Yes. You win. Congrats.
Sterling - V. Human Bard 3 (College of Art) - [Pic] - [Traits] - in Bards: Dragon Heist (w/ Mansion) - Jasper's [Pic] - Sterling's [Sigil]
Tooltips Post (2024 PHB updates) - incl. General Rules
>> New FOW threat & treasure tables: fow-advanced-threat-tables.pdf fow-advanced-treasure-table.pdf
So if you take 1 level of fighter and the unarmed fighting style and then 2 levels of Monk, shouldn't all unarmed attacks including flurry of blows do 1d8? The dndbeyond character sheet isn't updating that way. Is there an official ruling I'm missing?
I think it's a quirk of the system. The Unarmed Fighting Style doesn't update the Unarmed Strike entry in the same way as the Monk's Martial Arts. Instead it creates two new attacks called "Fighting Style: Unarmed Fighting" and "Fighting Style: Unarmed Fighting (armed)" showing the D8 and D6 attacks respectively.
Retroactive application is possible, otherwise your race wouldn't give you any ASI since you have none at that step yet, being only determined later.
I don't think Variant Human is intended to restrict feat that would have class or proficiency prerequisits obtained during character creation steps.
A Dev also previously mentioned that these steps have no rule weight basically. https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/1019995452068966400?s=20
@JeremyECrawford The steps of character creation in chapter 1 of the "Player's Handbook" are but one way you can approach making your character. The order of the steps has no rules weight. #DnD
Yeah that's true, unfortunately this doesn't work well with VTTs that rely on the bonus action attacks and flurry of blows.
Also prior to unarmed fighting style you could the the same amount of damage increase from Dueling fighting style and a Yklwa which is a one handed d8 weapon.
+4 to damage with Extra Attack so you had the same benefit albeit a bit later (level 5 instead of level 1).
I have skimmed through most of this, am not seeing a clear answer to my questions, does the fighter's Unarmed Fighting fighting style affect the martial art's die progression? (i.e. does it start the progression at D6 for levels 1-10, or does it modify the martials die to d6, d8, d10, d12?
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D&D Beyond FoundersIt doesn't modify the martial arts die at all. The martial arts die is used for numerous other monk features.
It merely allows you to use the feat damage for attacks instead.
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Thank you Stormknight. After talking with my friends and reading, and with your response, it solidified what I thought. Thank you for your time.
I would like to point out that the monk is also able to make an additional unarmed attack as a bonus action at level 1, which in my estimation it quite a bit more potent then a rapier. So a 1st Lv. Human V. with the Unarmed Fighting Style via the Fighter Initiate feat would be doing 2d8+Dex Mod Dmg per turn, assuming they hit with both attacks. And that is without even mentioning Flurry of Blows which they get access to at 2nd Lv.
All things considered, I think this is quite a viable option for monks and that the D8 for unarmed strikes is a vast improvement on the D4 for anyone willing to invest in the feat.
this thread was ages ago
For reference, monk does indeed beats out fighter in terms of purely unarmed damage for a large majority of levels (not level 20, tied for 11-16 i think), someone made a great post outlining the dpr of both but I don't know which thread it was in so oh well.
The unarmed fighting style is technically worse than the Dueling Fighting Style for monks (as a monk can use a d8/d10 weapon as soon as level 2), however it is very viable for people either wanting to completely ignore the use of weapons (flavor is free but it doesn't hurt to make it a little more tangible), or those who are really into grappling for whatever reason.
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
Yes, provided you are not wielding a monk weapon during the turn. If you are, you still get to make the extra unarmed attacks, but they'll be at 1d6 each.
Sterling - V. Human Bard 3 (College of Art) - [Pic] - [Traits] - in Bards: Dragon Heist (w/ Mansion) - Jasper's [Pic] - Sterling's [Sigil]
Tooltips Post (2024 PHB updates) - incl. General Rules
>> New FOW threat & treasure tables: fow-advanced-threat-tables.pdf fow-advanced-treasure-table.pdf
Your hands don't strictly need to be free for the d8 damage die, you just can't be wielding a weapon or wearing a shield.
You could however have 2 opponents grappled and be cracking their heads together for that 1d8 damage.
You would probably want to get a Eldritch Claw Tattoo to make your Unarmed Strikes considered magical if you don't want to go for 6 levels of monk.
Lol, that's a new one to add to my unarmed attack techniques.
Sterling - V. Human Bard 3 (College of Art) - [Pic] - [Traits] - in Bards: Dragon Heist (w/ Mansion) - Jasper's [Pic] - Sterling's [Sigil]
Tooltips Post (2024 PHB updates) - incl. General Rules
>> New FOW threat & treasure tables: fow-advanced-threat-tables.pdf fow-advanced-treasure-table.pdf
Could the monk combine this fighting style with Draconic Strike?
Yes partially since the Unarmed Fighting Style increase your unarmed strike damage among other things and Draconic Strike change the bludgeoning damage type to acid, cold, fire, lightning, or poison. This would only change the unarmed strike damage though, not the bludgeoning damage that you deal to one creature grappled by you at the start of your turns since this isn't from an unarmed strike.