If they meet the criteria for grappling (e.g. size), and succeeded on the check, then yes. RP wise, they could be physically too heavy for the dragon, or could unbalance it enough for it to crash. They could even manage to grab and pin a wing.
So what you're telling me is somebody could leap upon a dragon in flight and it would crash to the ground?
If you search for an entry, such as the Beholder, you can see the indicator "(hover)" beside the movement speed. In the absence of that, the ability to "hover" is not assumed.
An Adult Blue Dragon, for example, is a huge creature with +7 Str, an 80ft fly speed, and a 90ft breath weapon, so while it can be grappled in flight and dropped, the circumstances necessary to do so are difficult to achieve.
Note: To grapple a dragon and bring it to earth, the grappler will likely suffer the same consequences.
So what you're telling me is somebody could leap upon a dragon in flight and it would crash to the ground?
Memnosyne beat me to it. It is all explained in the MM in rules about movement types.
Assuming all the rules for grappling are met and the DM allows you to jump and grapple, then yes.
This is a case where RAW is nonsensical, but it is indeed RAW.
I don't know why it is nonsensical for a creature that you prevented from moving to no longer be able to fly. If you are holding onto a bird's wing, it can't fly. Simple as that.
So what you're telling me is somebody could leap upon a dragon in flight and it would crash to the ground?
Memnosyne beat me to it. It is all explained in the MM in rules about movement types.
Assuming all the rules for grappling are met and the DM allows you to jump and grapple, then yes.
This is a case where RAW is nonsensical, but it is indeed RAW.
I don't know why it is nonsensical for a creature that you prevented from moving to no longer be able to fly. If you are holding onto a bird's wing, it can't fly. Simple as that.
And if that bird is 20 or 30 times your mass? Comparing a dragon to a bird, is well, not worth discussing.
And if that bird is 20 or 30 times your mass? Comparing a dragon to a bird, is well, not worth discussing.
Grappling is restricted to "one size larger", so only a large creature, like an Ogre or an Enlarged PC, could grapple a huge creature, like an adult dragon.
So what you're telling me is somebody could leap upon a dragon in flight and it would crash to the ground?
Memnosyne beat me to it. It is all explained in the MM in rules about movement types.
Assuming all the rules for grappling are met and the DM allows you to jump and grapple, then yes.
This is a case where RAW is nonsensical, but it is indeed RAW.
I don't know why it is nonsensical for a creature that you prevented from moving to no longer be able to fly. If you are holding onto a bird's wing, it can't fly. Simple as that.
And if that bird is 20 or 30 times your mass? Comparing a dragon to a bird, is well, not worth discussing.
That isn't RAW then. As has been mentioned (I think twice already) you can only grapple 1 size larger. That is 2-8 times your volume tops. The wing of such a creature might be as long as your body and as thick as your leg. Easily able to prevent it from flapping properly with 1 hand (which is all a grapple is).
Does this also work to prevent something from taking off?
It works against a creature that has multiple movement types?
When you are grappled, all your movement types become zero. You can't walk, swim, burrow, crawl, stand up from prone, climb or fly, and if you are currently flying (without hover) you begin to fall. You get your movement back when the Grapple is broken by whatever method - including if the distance between you and the grappler exceeds the grappler's reach.
Does this also work to prevent something from taking off?
It works against a creature that has multiple movement types?
Have you seriously never read grappling rules in the 2.5 years you've been on the site? It is in the basic rules under making an attack - melee attack.
You cannot therefore assume that you are grappling any particular limb
True, but it's probably the easiest way to think of this for winged flying creatures for those struggling to get their head around an Ogre being able to stop a Dragon from flying, causing him to fall out of the sky. There are other explanations: weight, balance, etc., but grabbing a wing would definitely do the trick.
Note that a grappled dragon with an ogre holding his wing would still be able to make all of its attacks.
And if that bird is 20 or 30 times your mass? Comparing a dragon to a bird, is well, not worth discussing.
Grappling is restricted to "one size larger", so only a large creature, like an Ogre or an Enlarged PC, could grapple a huge creature, like an adult dragon.
You only need to pin one wing to disrupt flight.
I'll add to this that DMG has Climb onto a Bigger Creature optional rules for attempting to leap onto a much larger creature. This allows for your classic cinematic hero-clinging-to-a-flying-dragon thing that comes to mind in these situations. Although using Enlarge to get the Barbarian big enough to grab the Huge dragon out of the sky is pretty damn cool too.
And if that bird is 20 or 30 times your mass? Comparing a dragon to a bird, is well, not worth discussing.
Grappling is restricted to "one size larger", so only a large creature, like an Ogre or an Enlarged PC, could grapple a huge creature, like an adult dragon.
You only need to pin one wing to disrupt flight.
I'll add to this that DMG has Climb onto a Bigger Creature optional rules for attempting to leap onto a much larger creature. This allows for your classic cinematic hero-clinging-to-a-flying-dragon thing that comes to mind in these situations. Although using Enlarge to get the Barbarian big enough to grab the Huge dragon out of the sky is pretty damn cool too.
Something to think about is that a Large size Dragon (the "young" variety) completely fits inside (and likely doesn't fill) a 10x10 square. unless they are balancing on their tail and pointing skyward (or continuously curled into a ball), the drawn proportions means that the individual limbs of the dragon (and even its head/body) are not likely to be very large compared to a standard Medium Humanoid. even if you took the wings/tail out of the area of the "size" the creature just isn't that big; logistically grappling a creature like that is likely to be in the realm of possibility, especially given the typical superhuman stats of a PC (compared to the "common" humanoid).
Even a Huge sized (Adult) Dragon is only 15x15 feet...not super enormous, but definitely getting into the "too big for a medium humanoid to grapple" size.
Does this also work to prevent something from taking off?
It works against a creature that has multiple movement types?
Have you seriously never read grappling rules in the 2.5 years you've been on the site? It is in the basic rules under making an attack - melee attack.
I have read them but there are still situations that I need to wrap my head around.
So a PC A is flying in the center of a burning tower. PC B leaps to grab PC A so they can both fly out. But if they do that, they fall to the ground and die.
PC grabs hold of pegasus or griffon, and poof, auto capture. No dramatic, flying creature takes off with you hanging by the legs.
PC riding flying dragon leaps upon flying hippogriff, splat.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
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If a PC is flying (with wings) and a bad guy jumps up and grapples them, what happens?
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Their speed becomes 0 and unless they have the hover trait (sounds like they don't) they fall out of the sky.
Doesn't all flight have hover?
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
No. It is typically reserved for magical flight.
If you mean if all creatures can fly in place. Yes, but that is not what I'm referring to.
How can you tell?
So what you're telling me is somebody could leap upon a dragon in flight and it would crash to the ground?
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
If they meet the criteria for grappling (e.g. size), and succeeded on the check, then yes. RP wise, they could be physically too heavy for the dragon, or could unbalance it enough for it to crash. They could even manage to grab and pin a wing.
If you search for an entry, such as the Beholder, you can see the indicator "(hover)" beside the movement speed. In the absence of that, the ability to "hover" is not assumed.
An Adult Blue Dragon, for example, is a huge creature with +7 Str, an 80ft fly speed, and a 90ft breath weapon, so while it can be grappled in flight and dropped, the circumstances necessary to do so are difficult to achieve.
Note: To grapple a dragon and bring it to earth, the grappler will likely suffer the same consequences.
Memnosyne beat me to it. It is all explained in the MM in rules about movement types.
Assuming all the rules for grappling are met and the DM allows you to jump and grapple, then yes.
This is a case where RAW is nonsensical, but it is indeed RAW.
I don't know why it is nonsensical for a creature that you prevented from moving to no longer be able to fly. If you are holding onto a bird's wing, it can't fly. Simple as that.
And if that bird is 20 or 30 times your mass? Comparing a dragon to a bird, is well, not worth discussing.
Grappling is restricted to "one size larger", so only a large creature, like an Ogre or an Enlarged PC, could grapple a huge creature, like an adult dragon.
You only need to pin one wing to disrupt flight.
That isn't RAW then. As has been mentioned (I think twice already) you can only grapple 1 size larger. That is 2-8 times your volume tops. The wing of such a creature might be as long as your body and as thick as your leg. Easily able to prevent it from flapping properly with 1 hand (which is all a grapple is).
There is nothing nonsensical here.
Does this also work to prevent something from taking off?
It works against a creature that has multiple movement types?
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
When you are grappled, all your movement types become zero. You can't walk, swim, burrow, crawl, stand up from prone, climb or fly, and if you are currently flying (without hover) you begin to fall. You get your movement back when the Grapple is broken by whatever method - including if the distance between you and the grappler exceeds the grappler's reach.
Have you seriously never read grappling rules in the 2.5 years you've been on the site? It is in the basic rules under making an attack - melee attack.
True, but it's probably the easiest way to think of this for winged flying creatures for those struggling to get their head around an Ogre being able to stop a Dragon from flying, causing him to fall out of the sky. There are other explanations: weight, balance, etc., but grabbing a wing would definitely do the trick.
Note that a grappled dragon with an ogre holding his wing would still be able to make all of its attacks.
I'll add to this that DMG has Climb onto a Bigger Creature optional rules for attempting to leap onto a much larger creature. This allows for your classic cinematic hero-clinging-to-a-flying-dragon thing that comes to mind in these situations. Although using Enlarge to get the Barbarian big enough to grab the Huge dragon out of the sky is pretty damn cool too.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Something to think about is that a Large size Dragon (the "young" variety) completely fits inside (and likely doesn't fill) a 10x10 square. unless they are balancing on their tail and pointing skyward (or continuously curled into a ball), the drawn proportions means that the individual limbs of the dragon (and even its head/body) are not likely to be very large compared to a standard Medium Humanoid. even if you took the wings/tail out of the area of the "size" the creature just isn't that big; logistically grappling a creature like that is likely to be in the realm of possibility, especially given the typical superhuman stats of a PC (compared to the "common" humanoid).
Even a Huge sized (Adult) Dragon is only 15x15 feet...not super enormous, but definitely getting into the "too big for a medium humanoid to grapple" size.
I have read them but there are still situations that I need to wrap my head around.
So a PC A is flying in the center of a burning tower. PC B leaps to grab PC A so they can both fly out. But if they do that, they fall to the ground and die.
PC grabs hold of pegasus or griffon, and poof, auto capture. No dramatic, flying creature takes off with you hanging by the legs.
PC riding flying dragon leaps upon flying hippogriff, splat.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale