It hasn't come up yet but I know it will at some point with 2 Rogues in the party and one an Assassin.

How would you stat a garrote? Atm I've given it 1 pt of damage plus the Str or Dex modifier, attacker MUST strike from Surprise. This gives 6 damage (the common NPC has 4 so pretty much insta-kill).

Has anyone else had to deal with this and if so how did you work it?

Thanks in advance.

Just use the suffocation rules. It doesn't make much sense to try to treat it like a weapon.

There is a variant of the ettercap that includes a garrote. I can't say it translates perfectly to a player option, but it should be a good place to start.

Web Garrote. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one Medium or Small creature against which the ettercap has advantage on the attack roll. Hit: 4 (1d4 + 2) bludgeoning damage, and the target is grappled(escape DC 12). Until this grapple ends, the target can’t breathe, and the ettercap has advantage on attack rolls against it.

Web garrote is a good start. I wouldn't make it an attack or weapon though. Just a grapple attack option and require either advantage or hidden to make it. Then yeah, target grappled and can't breath (dropping the advantage bit).

Best to decide whether the Athletics (grapple) check can be made with dex or not now, because the rogue player is going to ask.

I would make it work like DxJxC and InquisitiveCoder have suggested! But slightly different.

I would use the suffocation rules instead of treating as a weapon, and it uses a grapple attempt requiring Surprise or being Hidden. I would also give it a rule that if you have Sneak Attack, to use the garrote whenever you could use sneak attack.

But I would treat it like a tool, or part of an “Assassin’s Toolkit” or something. That would let the PC could use their tool proficiency (witch could gain expertise) instead of (Athletics) for those checks. It should still require Str over Dex, but tools can be learned in downtime, so gaining Proficiency in a new toolkit is easy, they wouldn’t need (Athletics) which they likely don’t have, and the potential for Expertise would sufficiently offset the Str requirement. This toolkit would also apply to blackjacks/saps as well because why not?

I agree it should be built around a grappling attack.

I don't understand why folks are saying it can only be used as a surprise weapon.  I know that the typical use of a garrote is to sneak up on your victim, but wouldn't that be the preferred method of using any weapon?  If the attacker has a surprise advantage then the "To-Hit" determination should reflect that, but I don't see excluding a non-surprise attack with it.  But you can agree to anything at your table.

Once a To-Hit number has been achieved, I think it should be a fixed number of HP per turn (possibly with a strength modifier) and because it is a grapple attack, the victim has to break the grapple (again, subject to appropriate modifiers) before he can do anything else.  Once the victim's HP drops to or below zero, the victim falls unconscious.

Quote from MusicScout >>

I agree it should be built around a grappling attack.

I don't understand why folks are saying it can only be used as a surprise weapon.  I know that the typical use of a garrote is to sneak up on your victim, but wouldn't that be the preferred method of using any weapon?  If the attacker has a surprise advantage then the "To-Hit" determination should reflect that, but I don't see excluding a non-surprise attack with it.  But you can agree to anything at your table.

Once a To-Hit number has been achieved, I think it should be a fixed number of HP per turn (possibly with a strength modifier) and because it is a grapple attack, the victim has to break the grapple (again, subject to appropriate modifiers) before he can do anything else.  Once the victim's HP drops to or below zero, the victim falls unconscious.

 Lots to correct here.

1. Grappling is not a "to-hit" roll, it is a contested athletics check (defender can use acrobatics).
2. Surprise doesn't give any bonus or penalty to any rolls.
3. It really should just be suffocation instead of HP.

And not a correction, but just to point out. I never said surprise. I said hidden or had advantage.

The reason it shouldn't just be any time is because 1) it is a pretty powerful strategy and 2) it requires approaching from behind which is not exactly possible in normal combat since there are no facing rules and creatures are assumed to be defending themselves from all angles.

I think using a garrote should require an attack roll (strength or dexterity) to at least get it in place so that the rogue has at least a possibility of failure. If you make the garrote entirely skill based, then the appropriately-built rogue (or even a standard barbarian) will just murder every breathing creature their party ever faces without anyone else in the party having anything to do.

It takes an absolute minimum of 6 rounds to suffocate someone. Usually longer:

Suffocating

A creature can hold its breath for a number of minutes equal to 1 + its Constitution modifier (minimum of 30 seconds).

When a creature runs out of breath or is choking, it can survive for a number of rounds equal to its Constitution modifier (minimum of 1 round). At the start of its next turn, it drops to 0 hit points and is dying, and it can't regain hit points or be stabilized until it can breathe again.

For example, a creature with a Constitution of 14 can hold its breath for 3 minutes. If it starts suffocating, it has 2 rounds to reach air before it drops to 0 hit points.

Quote from IamSposta >>

It takes an absolute minimum of 6 rounds to suffocate someone. Usually longer:

Suffocating

A creature can hold its breath for a number of minutes equal to 1 + its Constitution modifier (minimum of 30 seconds).

When a creature runs out of breath or is choking, it can survive for a number of rounds equal to its Constitution modifier (minimum of 1 round). At the start of its next turn, it drops to 0 hit points and is dying, and it can't regain hit points or be stabilized until it can breathe again.

For example, a creature with a Constitution of 14 can hold its breath for 3 minutes. If it starts suffocating, it has 2 rounds to reach air before it drops to 0 hit points.

 Well, I think most of us were talking about skipping straight to choking (I was). That is still a minimum of 2 checks to escape.

Pretty powerful, but also why everybody required the rogue to be hidden or better to even try.

I wasn’t planning to skip it. But that was specifically to keep the garrote’s usefulness out of combat. Being able to kill almost anything in as little as 2 rounds during combat would be a bit much. But being able to kill almost anything in as little as 36 seconds outside of combat with a garrote seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Quote from IamSposta >>

I wasn’t planning to skip it. But that was specifically to keep the garrote’s usefulness out of combat. Being able to kill almost anything in as little as 2 rounds during combat would be a bit much. But being able to kill almost anything in as little as 36 seconds outside of combat with a garrote seems perfectly reasonable to me.

 Yeah, but that 36 seconds only applies to creatures with 11 or lower CON. Giving a creature 51 or more attempts to free itself (+5 con mod) considerably weakens the option. Especially since these creatures are already more likely to succeed.

Though I admit, giving a creature only 2 attempts to free itself (<+0 con mod) significantly strengthens it. Especially since these creatures are more likely to fail.

Maybe more house ruling for a happy medium is required. Con mod (min 1) + prof bonus # of rounds? That would make the range 4-20 failed checks till unconscious, vs 2-11 or 7-101 checks. Keeping in mind that it makes 1 check to begin grapple, then can make a check every turn. Of course battles with stronger monsters will end way before you can choke them out with almost any of these methods (the shortest method might be a little faster).

Garrotes (and manual choking) don’t work by preventing breathing, they work by cutting blood flow to the brain.  I don’t use the holding breath rules for these types of attacks, I go straight to choking rules, as the holding of breath is useless if the oxygen isn’t reaching the brain.   

I also do death saves for any creature brought to 0 by choking, even enemy creatures, for fairness, and require the choking creature to use both hands to maintain the chokehold or garrote, which limits the attackers actions while choking/garroting something

Quote from DxJxC >>

Quote from IamSposta >>

I wasn’t planning to skip it. But that was specifically to keep the garrote’s usefulness out of combat. Being able to kill almost anything in as little as 2 rounds during combat would be a bit much. But being able to kill almost anything in as little as 36 seconds outside of combat with a garrote seems perfectly reasonable to me.

 Yeah, but that 36 seconds only applies to creatures with 11 or lower CON. Giving a creature 51 or more attempts to free itself (+5 con mod) considerably weakens the option. Especially since these creatures are already more likely to succeed.

Though I admit, giving a creature only 2 attempts to free itself (<+0 con mod) significantly strengthens it. Especially since these creatures are more likely to fail.

Maybe more house ruling for a happy medium is required. Con mod (min 1) + prof bonus # of rounds? That would make the range 4-20 failed checks till unconscious, vs 2-11 or 7-101 checks. Keeping in mind that it makes 1 check to begin grapple, then can make a check every turn. Of course battles with stronger monsters will end way before you can choke them out with almost any of these methods (the shortest method might be a little faster).

Quote from iconarising >>

Garrotes (and manual choking) don’t work by preventing breathing, they work by cutting blood flow to the brain.  I don’t use the holding breath rules for these types of attacks, I go straight to choking rules, as the holding of breath is useless if the oxygen isn’t reaching the brain.   

I also do death saves for any creature brought to 0 by choking, even enemy creatures, for fairness, and require the choking creature to use both hands to maintain the chokehold or garrote, which limits the attackers actions while choking/garroting something

In my mind, the breath holding part of the suffocation rules represent those scenes in the movies where the person gets garroted, but then there is a suitably cool movie struggle before they either go down or break free. Remember, if the PCs can do it, so can the enemies. I tend to balance these things to give the PC a solid chance to escape as well. 

Plus, by making a garrote a tool like I suggested, and therefore making it eligible for Expertise, it makes the opponent much less likely to escape. And outside of combat, I don’t have to strictly follow the action economy, I can just make the time spent holding ones breath simply use opposed checks in a “best of three” scenario, or if it would be a matter of minutes it can be 1 check per 30 seconds, or some other metric for abbreviating the grapple checks. Then, once it finally moves into the choking phase of things it can slow down to being represented in combat rounds if needed.

When it is supposed to be an in-combat thing, it makes it very difficult to balance. When it is specifically an out of combat Tool Check it makes it more flexible and easier to balance.

I’d stat a garrote as a non-weapon tool enhancement to grappling. It would require two hands to use, but you could start and maintain a grapple while using it. While grappling a creature with it, I’d let the user have the 1d4 damage benefit of the Unarmed fighting style and the user can spend their action to force a grappled humanoid to make a Con save (DC 5 + Str Mod + # of rounds grappled) or fall unconscious for 1 minute. Grappled humanoids could also be unable to speak.

I’m late to the party but I would rule a garrote as a grapple to lock it in. Then use the Choking rules under Suffocation. When choking the creature can survive rounds equal to their Con mod minimum of one. Each round the creature can use their action to attempt to break the grapple on a fail they suffer the round of choking. Another additional option for garrote since it is a weapon could be that you can use your action every turn after the initial grapple to force/tighten the strangle which makes the target suffer another round of choking. This would make it more viable in combat. It’s also a lot more realistic. It only takes about 10 second to choke a person out. So for weaker constitution creatures the choke would be much faster but for the more tenacious creatures it would still take a few rounds. Con mod of 2 would be one fail grapple break and one action to tighten the strangle. Con of 4 would take 2 rounds of the previous ad con mod of 5 three rounds. As the choking rules state once a creature fails to be able to breathe in the allotted rounds it’s HP immediately drops to zero. On continued tightening of the strangle I would say that would deal 2 failed death saves. An interesting bit about being choked is the creature cannot regain hit points or stabilize until they can breathe.

Since my previous post I have changed how I implement chokeholds to have them bypass the breath holding stage and go straight to the choking stage. Most opponents are unconscious and making death saves in about 2-3 rounds (12-18 seconds) or less, which is realistic.* And since most combats only run for an average of 3.5 rounds anyway it doesn’t mess with the action economy this way either. As long as you maintain the grapple, and the target doesn’t escape it… 😴💤 and dying in no time and all the way dead in another couple of rounds if you don’t let go.

So if I were to design a garrote now I would still make it a tool and it would explicitly skip holding breath and go straight to choking, it would still potentially allow for expertise, and it would cause three failed death saves in a single round.

* In reality, choking someone out has nothing to do with restricting their breathing and everything to do with restricting the blood flow to their brain. Occlude both carotid arteries at the same time and the person is out in seconds flat, and dead soon after if not released.

I would have a garotte be a Strenght contest that grapple and suffocate its target.

I think it should be contested str or dex (your choice) at disadvantage to apply the garrote.

Move straight to choking from suffocation rules. 

Once at 0hp it should be 1 failed death save a round.

If the attacker takes damage they should make a 'concentration' check to see if they maintain the garrote. On a fail they keep the garrote inplace but the choking resets as the victim got a breath of air which got oxygen to the brain.

The Meazel also has a garrote attack:

Garrote. Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target of the meazel’s size or smaller. Hit: 6 (1d6 + 3) bludgeoning damage, and the target is grappled (escape DC 13 with disadvantage). Until the grapple ends, the target takes 10 (2d6 + 3) bludgeoning damage at the start of each of the meazel’s turns. The meazel can’t make weapon attacks while grappling a creature in this way.

This one doesn't even silence or choke.

One does have to ask, if you could auto-grapple someone and either deal automatic damage each turn or put them on a death clock, why would you ever use a different melee weapon?