Let's say I was playing a cavalier fighter and for my two martial weapons, I picked 2 lances. Lances are martial weapons WITHOUT the two-handed property. The feat Dual Wielder says that weapons that don't have the light property. So with that, can I dual-wield lances? And if so that would mean that is the best damage-wise dual-wield in the game so far.
So I think by RAW there is nothing preventing it if you are mounted. From the description: "Also, a lance requires two hands to wield when you aren't mounted." So make your small race battle smith artificer and ride your pet dual wielding lances to your hearts content.
Cool. Now with this at level 6 I can do 192 dpt if I roll perfectly. Thanks! I just thought it seemed a little weird to be able to dual wield lances with the size that they are.
Cool. Now with this at level 6 I can do 192 dpt if I roll perfectly. Thanks! I just thought it seemed a little weird to be able to dual wield lances with the size that they are.
How? That's 64 damage per hit, 38.25 per hit with action surge. And you are not a rogue, paladin, or spellcaster.
Even with max rolls and damage mod, that should be 17 damage per hit without extra bonuses, 29 with a crit.
Are you a half-orc? That would bring it up to 41 max damage per hit (that you only have a .05% chance of rolling after the 5% crit chance for 1 attack let alone 5).
You can't just proclaim you can do nearly 200 damage at level 6 because you are holding a second d12 weapon!
Assuming "perfect rolls," max damage with a lance would be 29 (crit, roll two 12s, have a +5 Strength bonus) before weird circumstantial bonuses like a barbarian rage or what have you. Really curious where 64 comes from.
We really are talking about rolling perfectly here, if we are talking about crits on weapons you are likely using at disadvantage or taking a ton of opportunity attacks to use with straight rolls.
Sorry, I forgot to mention I had the piercer feat.
Even if you are a half-orc, with dual wielder and piercer feat, two weapon fighting style, and 20 STR. A crit would deal 4d12+5, for a max damage of 53. That still isn't the 64 you need to deal 192 damage per turn at level 6 without action surge.
Even if you roll 3 out of 3 20s and 12 out of 13 12s (which is nearly impossible) it isn't enough.
I think what they’re thinking is that you’re attacking with 2 lances/Attack*2Attacks and somehow they got stuck in a lance doubling loop.
If you’re proficient with lances, have 2 lances, the Dual Wielder Feat, the Two-Weapon Fighting Style, extra attack, and are on a mount, then you can attack two times because Extra Attack, each one adds your Strength modifier and Proficiency bonus to the attack roll, and just your Strength modifier to the damage roll. A lance does 1d12 damage, and you deal your Strength mod in damage, so if you have a 20 Strength, that combines to a total of 1d12+5/Hit. And because of two- weapon fighting Dual Wielder you can have a second lance, so you can also attack with this once as a bonus action for another 1d12/hit, and because of the Two-Weapon fighting style you can still add your +5 to this one too. So, presuming no magical weapons and assuming you hit all three times that would be a total of (1d12+5)*3=51 total maximum damage. With Piercer that would add 1d12, upping it to a potential 63 damage per round. But that’s not per attack.
I think what they’re thinking is that you’re attacking with 2 lances/Attack*2Attacks and somehow they got stuck in a lance doubling loop.
If you’re proficient with lances, have 2 lances, the Dual Wielder Feat, the Two-Weapon Fighting Style, extra attack, and are on a mount, then you can attack two times because Extra Attack, each one adds your Strength modifier and Proficiency bonus to the attack roll, and just your Strength modifier to the damage roll. A lance does 1d12 damage, and you deal your Strength mod in damage, so if you have a 20 Strength, that combines to a total of 1d12+5/Hit. And because of two- weapon fighting Dual Wielder you can have a second lance, so you can also attack with this once as a bonus action for another 1d12/hit, and because of the Two-Weapon fighting style you can still add your +5 to this one too. So, presuming no magical weapons and assuming you hit all three times that would be a total of (1d12+5)*3=51 total maximum damage. With Piercer that would add 1d12, upping it to a potential 63 damage per round. But that’s not per attack.
Most of the calculations were going off of crits. With piercer, you roll an extra die when you crit so each lance when criting does 3d12+5 = 41 damage per attack.
Obviously it is ridiculous to assume always crit but that was the only way any of us could conceive getting near that 64 per attack number they had come up with.
This might sound crazy but hear me out.
Let's say I was playing a cavalier fighter and for my two martial weapons, I picked 2 lances. Lances are martial weapons WITHOUT the two-handed property. The feat Dual Wielder says that weapons that don't have the light property. So with that, can I dual-wield lances? And if so that would mean that is the best damage-wise dual-wield in the game so far.
So I think by RAW there is nothing preventing it if you are mounted. From the description: "Also, a lance requires two hands to wield when you aren't mounted." So make your small race battle smith artificer and ride your pet dual wielding lances to your hearts content.
Technically speaking, as long as you are mounted then yes they can be used with two-weapon fighting
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What they said. While mounted.
Cool. Now with this at level 6 I can do 192 dpt if I roll perfectly. Thanks! I just thought it seemed a little weird to be able to dual wield lances with the size that they are.
RAW it should work as long as you are mounted.
That being said, I wouldn't allow it simply because it shatters verisimilitude. It's just nonsensical and really goes against how a lance is used.
But if the DM allows shenanigans, or it's a comedy game, maybe it'll fly.
A lance is a 2 handed weapon unless mounted. In which the lance partially rests on you and the other hand it guiding the mount.
Try this. Go get 2 poles about 7 feet long and 1.5 to 2" in diameter and try waving them around.
How? That's 64 damage per hit, 38.25 per hit with action surge. And you are not a rogue, paladin, or spellcaster.
Even with max rolls and damage mod, that should be 17 damage per hit without extra bonuses, 29 with a crit.
Are you a half-orc? That would bring it up to 41 max damage per hit (that you only have a .05% chance of rolling after the 5% crit chance for 1 attack let alone 5).
You can't just proclaim you can do nearly 200 damage at level 6 because you are holding a second d12 weapon!
64*4
Dual weilding to attack once with both weapons and two attacks per turn
But how are you doing 64 damage per hit?
But where are you getting the 64 from? a Lance does 1d12 base, how do you get that to 64? Also, 64*4 is 256, not 192 (that is 64 *3)
I'm aware, I was stating that they did the math wrong (they originally said 192 damage, which is not 64*4). Still waiting on how they got to 64 though
Assuming "perfect rolls," max damage with a lance would be 29 (crit, roll two 12s, have a +5 Strength bonus) before weird circumstantial bonuses like a barbarian rage or what have you. Really curious where 64 comes from.
We really are talking about rolling perfectly here, if we are talking about crits on weapons you are likely using at disadvantage or taking a ton of opportunity attacks to use with straight rolls.
Sorry, I forgot to mention I had the piercer feat.
Okay but piercer lets you roll 1 additional die, so that is 3d12 (36) plus 5 from STR. Again where are you getting 64 damage on 1 lance attack?
Even if you are a half-orc, with dual wielder and piercer feat, two weapon fighting style, and 20 STR. A crit would deal 4d12+5, for a max damage of 53. That still isn't the 64 you need to deal 192 damage per turn at level 6 without action surge.
Even if you roll 3 out of 3 20s and 12 out of 13 12s (which is nearly impossible) it isn't enough.
I think what they’re thinking is that you’re attacking with 2 lances/Attack*2Attacks and somehow they got stuck in a lance doubling loop.
If you’re proficient with lances, have 2 lances, the Dual Wielder Feat, the Two-Weapon Fighting Style, extra attack, and are on a mount, then you can attack two times because Extra Attack, each one adds your Strength modifier and Proficiency bonus to the attack roll, and just your Strength modifier to the damage roll. A lance does 1d12 damage, and you deal your Strength mod in damage, so if you have a 20 Strength, that combines to a total of 1d12+5/Hit. And because of two- weapon fighting Dual Wielder you can have a second lance, so you can also attack with this once as a bonus action for another 1d12/hit, and because of the Two-Weapon fighting style you can still add your +5 to this one too. So, presuming no magical weapons and assuming you hit all three times that would be a total of (1d12+5)*3=51 total maximum damage. With Piercer that would add 1d12, upping it to a potential 63 damage per round. But that’s not per attack.
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Most of the calculations were going off of crits. With piercer, you roll an extra die when you crit so each lance when criting does 3d12+5 = 41 damage per attack.
Obviously it is ridiculous to assume always crit but that was the only way any of us could conceive getting near that 64 per attack number they had come up with.
Then I dunno because that doesn’t even get close.
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