The Lady of Pain is explicitly not a god. She's got god-level power, but she hates being called a god or worshiped as one and kills anyone who does so.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
The Lady of Pain is explicitly not a god. She's got god-level power, but she hates being called a god or worshiped as one and kills anyone who does so.
Yes. After she killed one. Sources were inconsistent over whether deities were actively trying to get into Sigil to claim it for themselves or avoiding avoiding the place like a bad case of leprosy after that.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Yes. After she killed one. Sources were inconsistent over whether deities were actively trying to get into Sigil to claim it for themselves or avoiding avoiding the place like a bad case of leprosy after that.
Hmm. Interesting. Are you talking about Aoskar the Dead God?
This is some what meta but the dm is the most powerful being affecting the world. They choose the gods of the world and what powers they have. However if Ao made the forgotten realms then he would rank up there as well. I see him as a representative of wizards of the coast which grants him power to change and shape the world outside anyone DMs wishes.
I know this was mentioned already, but Ao, as the god of gods, has absolute power over everyone else listed here. They cast down the gods at the start of the time of troubles and is the absolute arbiter of who gets to be a god.
Just as kelevmor (god of death) has power of the souls of the dead, Ao has control over the gods. So most powerful 100%.
Of course, this is assuming Forgotten Realms, in other settings I don't know as much.
Yes, but Ao’s power is limited to the Realms. As the creator god of dragons, Io influences any world on the Prime Material that has dragons (which is most of the major worlds).
In fact, almost every published Prime Material world except Dark Sun has some form of “true” dragon. Even Birthright has the Cerilian dragon (a true dragon, not an Awnshegh).
In my previous, lengthy post on this last year, I forgot to mention someone.
In the third novel of the Avatar series simply titled "Waterdeep" the author, Troy Denning, mentions that the overgod Ao actually reports to someone.
This someone is simply called "luminous being" and is assumed by some to just be a representation of whichever Dungeon Master is running a campaign.
But you probably are not looking for an answer like "the dungeon master is the most powerful creature in D&D" since they actually exist outside of D&D.
Although a neat theory that just popped into my head...
This would all make the idea that Ao (or whichever overgod in a crystal sphere) is actually able to communicate the laws of his Realmspace directly outside of his place to the real world. That would mean that all the books that talk about rules of D&D, how spells are cast, how to initiate combat, grappling, anything, are written by Ao (or appropriate overgod.)
This would also mean that the question of "oldest god" might not include the "luminous being" if the campaign world was created before the Dungeon Master running the adventure was born after the creation of that campaign world. (1967 was when Ed Greenwood wrote about the Forgotten Realms in his childhood stories, but it had official products released as a D&D setting in 1987)
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Good luck and may you roll 20's when you need them and 1's when you need a laugh. - myself
I've never heard of a "luminous being" mentioned in any book outside of that one novel, and Denning had a habit of taking liberties with his novels that were generally ignored elsewhere. I'd say that the "luminous being" isn't canon unless a reference can be found elsewhere.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I've never heard of a "luminous being" mentioned in any book outside of that one novel, and Denning had a habit of taking liberties with his novels that were generally ignored elsewhere. I'd say that the "luminous being" isn't canon unless a reference can be found elsewhere.
Agreed. I would say that Ao is the supreme god of Toril.
It’s possible that the luminous being is the Judeo-Christian God, in which case it’s definitely not canon.
I've been a fan of the Forgotten realms setting for years, and there is much speculation about the entity Ao speaks to in the Avatar series. Some joke that it is the DM or Ed Greenwood, and others (myself included) think that, because Ao is the overlord of Realmspace, but not the entire multiverse, he has a "boss".
I've been a fan of the Forgotten realms setting for years, and there is much speculation about the entity Ao speaks to in the Avatar series. Some joke that it is the DM or Ed Greenwood, and others (myself included) think that, because Ao is the overlord of Realmspace, but not the entire multiverse, he has a "boss".
All seems like a valid point. But Ed Greenwood (creator of the Forgotten Realms) is sort of a character in there already. I can't remember which source it was, but Ed Greenwood met up with Elminster to write the first sourcebooks of Forgotten Realms according to lore. Someone, if you can reference the source, then thank you.
And all of this would be way over the scope of the game anyways. After all, the player characters are suppose to be mortals. Them simply meeting the gods' god, Ao, would be really out there. So meeting the god of the gods' god should be out of the scope of the game. Sort of like the guy who asked for stats covering abilities scores over 100. That is so immeasurable by the game that the DM could make up whatever he wanted for that.
I'm still going to cling to my theory that the rulebooks for D&D are written by the overgod of the specific sphere that you play in. I like that idea in my head.
Nevermind, I took the little bit of extra time to look it up Elminster communicating with Ed Greenwood instead of sending others to find information that I already found before.
Brian R. James and Ed Greenwood. (September 2007). "The Grand History of the Realms." Page 142
The Lady of Pain is explicitly not a god. She's got god-level power, but she hates being called a god or worshiped as one and kills anyone who does so.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Right. Doesn’t she also ban deities from Sigil?
Yes. After she killed one. Sources were inconsistent over whether deities were actively trying to get into Sigil to claim it for themselves or avoiding avoiding the place like a bad case of leprosy after that.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Hmm. Interesting. Are you talking about Aoskar the Dead God?
Yeah, she penned that berk into the dead book and made sure all the other powers knew Sigil was her kip and not theirs.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Got it 😂😂😂
Ao in forgotten realms
DM: Dragon of Icespire Peak PbP
Also the High One in Dragonlance
This is some what meta but the dm is the most powerful being affecting the world. They choose the gods of the world and what powers they have. However if Ao made the forgotten realms then he would rank up there as well. I see him as a representative of wizards of the coast which grants him power to change and shape the world outside anyone DMs wishes.
Mostly nocturnal
help build a world here
asgorath, or io, no question, created the multiverse
The draconic creator god? Interesting.
I know this was mentioned already, but Ao, as the god of gods, has absolute power over everyone else listed here. They cast down the gods at the start of the time of troubles and is the absolute arbiter of who gets to be a god.
Just as kelevmor (god of death) has power of the souls of the dead, Ao has control over the gods. So most powerful 100%.
Of course, this is assuming Forgotten Realms, in other settings I don't know as much.
Proud poster on the Create a World thread
Yes, but Ao’s power is limited to the Realms. As the creator god of dragons, Io influences any world on the Prime Material that has dragons (which is most of the major worlds).
In fact, almost every published Prime Material world except Dark Sun has some form of “true” dragon. Even Birthright has the Cerilian dragon (a true dragon, not an Awnshegh).
Good points. I know very little about other settings, so this is new information. nice.
Proud poster on the Create a World thread
In my previous, lengthy post on this last year, I forgot to mention someone.
In the third novel of the Avatar series simply titled "Waterdeep" the author, Troy Denning, mentions that the overgod Ao actually reports to someone.
This someone is simply called "luminous being" and is assumed by some to just be a representation of whichever Dungeon Master is running a campaign.
But you probably are not looking for an answer like "the dungeon master is the most powerful creature in D&D" since they actually exist outside of D&D.
Although a neat theory that just popped into my head...
This would all make the idea that Ao (or whichever overgod in a crystal sphere) is actually able to communicate the laws of his Realmspace directly outside of his place to the real world. That would mean that all the books that talk about rules of D&D, how spells are cast, how to initiate combat, grappling, anything, are written by Ao (or appropriate overgod.)
This would also mean that the question of "oldest god" might not include the "luminous being" if the campaign world was created before the Dungeon Master running the adventure was born after the creation of that campaign world. (1967 was when Ed Greenwood wrote about the Forgotten Realms in his childhood stories, but it had official products released as a D&D setting in 1987)
Good luck and may you roll 20's when you need them and 1's when you need a laugh. - myself
I've never heard of a "luminous being" mentioned in any book outside of that one novel, and Denning had a habit of taking liberties with his novels that were generally ignored elsewhere. I'd say that the "luminous being" isn't canon unless a reference can be found elsewhere.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Agreed. I would say that Ao is the supreme god of Toril.
It’s possible that the luminous being is the Judeo-Christian God, in which case it’s definitely not canon.
I've been a fan of the Forgotten realms setting for years, and there is much speculation about the entity Ao speaks to in the Avatar series. Some joke that it is the DM or Ed Greenwood, and others (myself included) think that, because Ao is the overlord of Realmspace, but not the entire multiverse, he has a "boss".
All seems like a valid point. But Ed Greenwood (creator of the Forgotten Realms) is sort of a character in there already. I can't remember which source it was, but Ed Greenwood met up with Elminster to write the first sourcebooks of Forgotten Realms according to lore. Someone, if you can reference the source, then thank you.
And all of this would be way over the scope of the game anyways. After all, the player characters are suppose to be mortals. Them simply meeting the gods' god, Ao, would be really out there. So meeting the god of the gods' god should be out of the scope of the game. Sort of like the guy who asked for stats covering abilities scores over 100. That is so immeasurable by the game that the DM could make up whatever he wanted for that.
I'm still going to cling to my theory that the rulebooks for D&D are written by the overgod of the specific sphere that you play in. I like that idea in my head.
Nevermind, I took the little bit of extra time to look it up Elminster communicating with Ed Greenwood instead of sending others to find information that I already found before.
Brian R. James and Ed Greenwood. (September 2007). "The Grand History of the Realms." Page 142
Good luck and may you roll 20's when you need them and 1's when you need a laugh. - myself