My idea was a species of monsters or animals isolated from all other lifeforms. Would it be possible in terms of population statistics for a species to survive entirely on cannibalizing other members of the same species?
And if such an encounter were to be worked out, then it would matter which creatures we’re talking about. So, among both animals and generic monsters in 5e, are there any known to cannibalize their own? For example, would a troll eat another troll? Could a werewolf eat another werewolf, etc.?
Would it be possible in terms of population statistics for a species to survive entirely on cannibalizing other members of the same species?
No, that's impossible. It would violate the law of conservation of matter and energy. When food is eaten there is always some energy lost via heat or indigestible materials. This means that you can never have more energy than you started with and thus in the long term your population size can only decrease. In other words, you would need to eat more than one adult specimen for every adult specimen produced.
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Interesting, and thank you for the specific evidence. So would this still remain true regardless of specimen? No exceptions for something that breeds fast, like ants, rats, or really weird and aggressive bunnies?
Okay, weird question. Whether it is possible or not has been answered, but if you’re looking for a monster likely to be cannibals then trolls might work. They heal quickly, so in a troll fight one might get its arm ripped off. The other troll might be distracted by it and eat it, giving the wounded troll time to get away. They then regenerate and live to fight another day. Also, I think dire trolls come from cannibal trolls.
Nope, it's still not sustainable, period. It takes a significant investment of energy just to produce offspring. With no outside source of nutrients, then even if a species was able to subsist solely on their own flesh they'd still waste away in relatively short order.
Nope, it's still not sustainable, period. It takes a significant investment of energy just to produce offspring. With no outside source of nutrients, then even if a species was able to subsist solely on their own flesh they'd still waste away in relatively short order.
I wasn’t saying it was sustainable. I was saying that trolls likely practice cannibalism regularly. I agree that it isn’t sustainable.
Nope, it's still not sustainable, period. It takes a significant investment of energy just to produce offspring. With no outside source of nutrients, then even if a species was able to subsist solely on their own flesh they'd still waste away in relatively short order.
I wasn’t saying it was sustainable. I was saying that trolls likely practice cannibalism regularly. I agree that it isn’t sustainable.
Wasn't replying to you. I actually didn't see your reply before now. Regarding trolls you're correct, the Dire Troll block is explicitly what happens if one troll starts eating others. Not sure how "regular" it is, but it definitely happens.
I suppose we have to discard the “total reliance on cannibalism” scenario, though I’m grateful that you all came with convincing arguments. I’m still wondering about the cannibalistic species, though…do we know of any other than trolls (and resultant dire trolls)?
Gnolls are also said to be cannibals. They are cursed with never ending hunger and sometimes turn on each other. This is supposed to be what creates gnoll witherlings.
It's certainly a correct reading of thermodynamics that you can't have more stuff in a system without adding it. On the other hand, D&D worlds include literal magic. Any creature with the regeneration quality could conceivably feed itself ouroborous style. It does strain the imagination...
my 2cp worth of an idea, using Illithid as an example but you could swap in more mundane frog/toad/amphibious creatures:
Many centuries ago, in a large swampy area in a hidden valley that was cut off from the rest of the world, a colony of illlithids formed. Their goal was to create a base of operation and then a city form which they could conduct their interplanar affairs. For reasons unknown the colony failed, the elder brain died and soon after the slaves and other illithids died. The pools of tadpols went untended and soon started to devourer each other untill only Neothelids remained in the valley, these fought each other until only one remained. The final Neothelid could not find a way to escape and fell into a state of hiberbation. During this hiberbation a primal psionic command took hold and it underwent a metamorphosis and eventually split open sending thousands of tapole spawn/larvae into the swamp waters where they again went untended and the cycle of Neothild birth, death and rebirth begain again.
EDIT: Insects and Rats could also be worth looking into as they can have some asoudningly high birth rates so a colony might end up doing some canniblism to keep the colony in sustainable limits, Were-Rats or Thri-keen could work.
Without magic, no. With magic, the High Elves of Straya make a good candidate.
Magic doesn't seem to follow the Law of Conservation of Energy.
(They're not natives or first peoples of the island continent. They're Elves that migrated to the Outback of Straya and took to a less sophisticated, more primitive way of life. See NPC D&D for more information.)
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Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
Ever noticed that trees don't sit over massive holes in the ground that are the same size as the tree? That's because trees aren't made of dirt - they're made of air.
They take the carbon from the air and that makes their mass. They get their nutrients from the soil, which is decomposed organic matter - including other trees.
So, the logical answer (though not likely to match your vision) is a plant creature of some sort - as long as they have light, they can generate mass from the air and photosynthesis. It wouldn't take a huge leap to make carnivorous and cannibalistic plant creatures which rely on each other for nutrients, not for biomass.
If they are able to grow new heads which would be giving nutrients etc wouldnt that be a way to survive?
Just cut down one head or eat one head and it grows one or two more. Wouldnt that "energy lost" be replenished by that?
Purely from a biochem perspective, absolutely not. There is always a loss of energy in any system, so eating a head and then regrowing two new ones would still constitute a significant loss of energy. From a strict RAW interpretation of the monster stat block the would be no long-term mechanical disadvantage to a hydra doing this, although in the short term it losses 5 HP per head lost. If I was a DM and the question came up, though, I'd say it'd still end up killing itself if it started on something like that.
If they are able to grow new heads which would be giving nutrients etc wouldnt that be a way to survive?
Just cut down one head or eat one head and it grows one or two more. Wouldnt that "energy lost" be replenished by that?
Purely from a biochem perspective, absolutely not. There is always a loss of energy in any system, so eating a head and then regrowing two new ones would still constitute a significant loss of energy. From a strict RAW interpretation of the monster stat block the would be no long-term mechanical disadvantage to a hydra doing this, although in the short term it losses 5 HP per head lost. If I was a DM and the question came up, though, I'd say it'd still end up killing itself if it started on something like that.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
If they are able to grow new heads which would be giving nutrients etc wouldnt that be a way to survive?
Just cut down one head or eat one head and it grows one or two more. Wouldnt that "energy lost" be replenished by that?
Purely from a biochem perspective, absolutely not. There is always a loss of energy in any system, so eating a head and then regrowing two new ones would still constitute a significant loss of energy. From a strict RAW interpretation of the monster stat block the would be no long-term mechanical disadvantage to a hydra doing this, although in the short term it losses 5 HP per head lost. If I was a DM and the question came up, though, I'd say it'd still end up killing itself if it started on something like that.
Realism? In D&D? There's a level of realism one must abandon in D&D. Don't forget the whole blood-loss thing is bringing realism where it doesn't really belong.
Mix and match. What works for you? If Cannibalism doesn't work for you because of IRL science, fine. Yet, the question was asking for a D&D society based on cannibalism, which must abandon IRL science to accommodate.
That's the point of the comic. IRL where it works for you, suspension where it doesn't. It's different for different people.
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Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
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This isn’t going to be that weird, I swear.
My idea was a species of monsters or animals isolated from all other lifeforms. Would it be possible in terms of population statistics for a species to survive entirely on cannibalizing other members of the same species?
And if such an encounter were to be worked out, then it would matter which creatures we’re talking about. So, among both animals and generic monsters in 5e, are there any known to cannibalize their own? For example, would a troll eat another troll? Could a werewolf eat another werewolf, etc.?
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Quorian - half-elf watcher [Model]
Ruffler - human wizard [Model]
PM me the word ‘tomato’
No, that's impossible. It would violate the law of conservation of matter and energy. When food is eaten there is always some energy lost via heat or indigestible materials. This means that you can never have more energy than you started with and thus in the long term your population size can only decrease. In other words, you would need to eat more than one adult specimen for every adult specimen produced.
Age: 33 | Sex: Male | Languages: French and English | Roles: DM and Player
Interesting, and thank you for the specific evidence. So would this still remain true regardless of specimen? No exceptions for something that breeds fast, like ants, rats, or really weird and aggressive bunnies?
Darbakh - Duergar warden [Pic] [Model]
Quorian - half-elf watcher [Model]
Ruffler - human wizard [Model]
PM me the word ‘tomato’
Okay, weird question. Whether it is possible or not has been answered, but if you’re looking for a monster likely to be cannibals then trolls might work. They heal quickly, so in a troll fight one might get its arm ripped off. The other troll might be distracted by it and eat it, giving the wounded troll time to get away. They then regenerate and live to fight another day. Also, I think dire trolls come from cannibal trolls.
I wasn’t saying it was sustainable. I was saying that trolls likely practice cannibalism regularly. I agree that it isn’t sustainable.
Wasn't replying to you. I actually didn't see your reply before now. Regarding trolls you're correct, the Dire Troll block is explicitly what happens if one troll starts eating others. Not sure how "regular" it is, but it definitely happens.
I suppose we have to discard the “total reliance on cannibalism” scenario, though I’m grateful that you all came with convincing arguments. I’m still wondering about the cannibalistic species, though…do we know of any other than trolls (and resultant dire trolls)?
Darbakh - Duergar warden [Pic] [Model]
Quorian - half-elf watcher [Model]
Ruffler - human wizard [Model]
PM me the word ‘tomato’
Sahaguin-it’s pretty standard they eat their dead-not doing so is considered wasteful and disrespectful
and humans of course
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Gnolls are also said to be cannibals. They are cursed with never ending hunger and sometimes turn on each other. This is supposed to be what creates gnoll witherlings.
It's certainly a correct reading of thermodynamics that you can't have more stuff in a system without adding it. On the other hand, D&D worlds include literal magic. Any creature with the regeneration quality could conceivably feed itself ouroborous style. It does strain the imagination...
my 2cp worth of an idea, using Illithid as an example but you could swap in more mundane frog/toad/amphibious creatures:
Many centuries ago, in a large swampy area in a hidden valley that was cut off from the rest of the world, a colony of illlithids formed. Their goal was to create a base of operation and then a city form which they could conduct their interplanar affairs. For reasons unknown the colony failed, the elder brain died and soon after the slaves and other illithids died. The pools of tadpols went untended and soon started to devourer each other untill only Neothelids remained in the valley, these fought each other until only one remained. The final Neothelid could not find a way to escape and fell into a state of hiberbation. During this hiberbation a primal psionic command took hold and it underwent a metamorphosis and eventually split open sending thousands of tapole spawn/larvae into the swamp waters where they again went untended and the cycle of Neothild birth, death and rebirth begain again.
EDIT: Insects and Rats could also be worth looking into as they can have some asoudningly high birth rates so a colony might end up doing some canniblism to keep the colony in sustainable limits, Were-Rats or Thri-keen could work.
Without magic, no. With magic, the High Elves of Straya make a good candidate.
Magic doesn't seem to follow the Law of Conservation of Energy.
(They're not natives or first peoples of the island continent. They're Elves that migrated to the Outback of Straya and took to a less sophisticated, more primitive way of life. See NPC D&D for more information.)
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
Technically: Trees.
Ever noticed that trees don't sit over massive holes in the ground that are the same size as the tree? That's because trees aren't made of dirt - they're made of air.
They take the carbon from the air and that makes their mass. They get their nutrients from the soil, which is decomposed organic matter - including other trees.
So, the logical answer (though not likely to match your vision) is a plant creature of some sort - as long as they have light, they can generate mass from the air and photosynthesis. It wouldn't take a huge leap to make carnivorous and cannibalistic plant creatures which rely on each other for nutrients, not for biomass.
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What about the Hydra?
If they are able to grow new heads which would be giving nutrients etc wouldnt that be a way to survive?
Just cut down one head or eat one head and it grows one or two more. Wouldnt that "energy lost" be replenished by that?
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Purely from a biochem perspective, absolutely not. There is always a loss of energy in any system, so eating a head and then regrowing two new ones would still constitute a significant loss of energy. From a strict RAW interpretation of the monster stat block the would be no long-term mechanical disadvantage to a hydra doing this, although in the short term it losses 5 HP per head lost. If I was a DM and the question came up, though, I'd say it'd still end up killing itself if it started on something like that.
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Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I know it, but that's Rule of Funny, not an attempt at realism, balance, or consistency
Realism? In D&D? There's a level of realism one must abandon in D&D. Don't forget the whole blood-loss thing is bringing realism where it doesn't really belong.
Mix and match. What works for you? If Cannibalism doesn't work for you because of IRL science, fine. Yet, the question was asking for a D&D society based on cannibalism, which must abandon IRL science to accommodate.
That's the point of the comic. IRL where it works for you, suspension where it doesn't. It's different for different people.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.