there are now doofuses on Twitter dragging Gary Gygax for the author of Expedition to the Ruins of Castle Greyhawk making Iggwilv not only the same character as Tasha of the Hideous Laughter (a spell inspired by a young girl who was a fan who asked Gary in a letter in crayon to make a spell involving laughter) but ALSO the evil demon-binding seductress Natasha the Dark
I thought the 2007 revamp only bundled Iggwilv and Tasha, not Natasha ?
Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk (Aug2007) bundled Iggwilv and Tasha, but Dragon #359 (Aug2007) "repeated the claim that Tasha and Iggwilv were one and the same, and were also related to Baba Yaga's adopted daughter Natasha. A remake of the Dancing Hut adventure published in Dungeon #196 further established that Natasha the Dark would eventually become Iggwilv".
I like the new continuity. I think it’s an interesting retcon. That being said, I still think anyone who gets super emotional over this issue on either side is kind of overreacting.
I'll just leave this here, https://greyhawkonline.com/greyhawkwiki/Iggwilv. Yes, they are all the same person, here are the links from lore in the article. This wiki is maintained by people who eat, and drink, Greyhawk lore.
Maybe everyone on this thread posting their hot takes on who Iggvilv was or wasn't could take a cue from Gygax himself: he deliberately left swathes of Greyhawk's lore and timelines ambiguous or incomplete - so DM's could fill the gaps themselves for their own campaigns.
Shit, EGG flat out destroyed Greyhawk in his Gord novels and people still use it as a setting. Take what you want, play how you want to play.
I don't mind them being the same person, but I do wish Tasha was the daughter of Iggwilv (grand daughter of Baba Yaga). Not because of any controversy, but because I generally like the idea of Iggwilv having many famous children.
I don't mind them being the same person, but I do wish Tasha was the daughter of Iggwilv (grand daughter of Baba Yaga). Not because of any controversy, but because I generally like the idea of Iggwilv having many famous children.
Contradictions and vagarities are the blessing and bane of creators depending on the intent.
The nice thing is that one can interpret written lore as "spoken lore" with discrepancies to create new stories based upon the lore in the campaign's setting.
Some people feel dirty trying to do that, though, as if they're disregarding established lore. Understandable. Holes in the story just makes that more difficult.
Yet, the holes must be filled for many people to create their stories around specific points in the lore, but people are filling those holes differently. Who's correct?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
It seems reasonable for me to assume that the gameworld where I adventure, or lead adventures, is an alternative dimension to the gameworld where other tables adventures. My gameworld is not the precise universe that Ed Greenwood envisioned, nor is it the gameworld where Gary Gygax ruled as king for many years. Mine is a possible world, with possible cities and towns, with possible monsters and villians, and... possible Tasha's...
As much as I fondly remember Greyhawk it is a dead setting nowadays. With the popularity of Forgotten Realms I foresee only legacy reminders popping up here and there so WOTC can maintain the IP.
So hold onto your old Greyhawk material and nevermind anything new as it's only bound to be retconned into whatever is the most fashionable at the time. Look at drow for example...they've changed significantly from G3.
Those three characters were combined into one in 2007, but not by Gary, who originally based Tasha off a young fan's name (as you mentioned) and Iggwilv off a Finnish witch queen, while a different author based Natasha on a Russian Folktale.
That said: what discrepancies do you see with Iggwilv's current official background? It seems to reconcile the issues you mentioned well enough.
Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk (Aug2007) bundled Iggwilv and Tasha, but Dragon #359 (Aug2007) "repeated the claim that Tasha and Iggwilv were one and the same, and were also related to Baba Yaga's adopted daughter Natasha. A remake of the Dancing Hut adventure published in Dungeon #196 further established that Natasha the Dark would eventually become Iggwilv".
I like the new continuity. I think it’s an interesting retcon. That being said, I still think anyone who gets super emotional over this issue on either side is kind of overreacting.
...Wait till you find out about Zybilna...
I'll just leave this here, https://greyhawkonline.com/greyhawkwiki/Iggwilv. Yes, they are all the same person, here are the links from lore in the article. This wiki is maintained by people who eat, and drink, Greyhawk lore.
Agreed lol
It made me so happy when I found out.
Simping for Tasha and Mordenkainen.
Maybe they're all different echoes of one person, but in essence divided.
I am an Arachpriest, Cat Cultist, Sauce Monk, Angel of Death, and First Spinjitzu Master.
I play Thirteen the necromancer elf, Timber the tabaxi child, and more at the tavern. Hope you like yams!
Oh yeah, don't forget to be kind and loving and stuff. Not on during weekends.
WBtW says they’re all different aspects of one woman, the daughter of Baba Yaga.
I'd say they're the same person because Tasha's Cauldron of Everything says they are one and the same. You sound more read up then me so idk.
Come check out some of my Homebrew (please give input!)
Make some trinket tables on this thread!
But I thought she was adopted.
I am an Arachpriest, Cat Cultist, Sauce Monk, Angel of Death, and First Spinjitzu Master.
I play Thirteen the necromancer elf, Timber the tabaxi child, and more at the tavern. Hope you like yams!
Oh yeah, don't forget to be kind and loving and stuff. Not on during weekends.
She was. But an adopted daughter is still a daughter.
Maybe everyone on this thread posting their hot takes on who Iggvilv was or wasn't could take a cue from Gygax himself: he deliberately left swathes of Greyhawk's lore and timelines ambiguous or incomplete - so DM's could fill the gaps themselves for their own campaigns.
Shit, EGG flat out destroyed Greyhawk in his Gord novels and people still use it as a setting. Take what you want, play how you want to play.
I don't mind them being the same person, but I do wish Tasha was the daughter of Iggwilv (grand daughter of Baba Yaga). Not because of any controversy, but because I generally like the idea of Iggwilv having many famous children.
Is Iuz not enough?
Hail, Iuz!
Iuz the Great and Evil!
Contradictions and vagarities are the blessing and bane of creators depending on the intent.
The nice thing is that one can interpret written lore as "spoken lore" with discrepancies to create new stories based upon the lore in the campaign's setting.
Some people feel dirty trying to do that, though, as if they're disregarding established lore. Understandable. Holes in the story just makes that more difficult.
Yet, the holes must be filled for many people to create their stories around specific points in the lore, but people are filling those holes differently. Who's correct?
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
It seems reasonable for me to assume that the gameworld where I adventure, or lead adventures, is an alternative dimension to the gameworld where other tables adventures. My gameworld is not the precise universe that Ed Greenwood envisioned, nor is it the gameworld where Gary Gygax ruled as king for many years. Mine is a possible world, with possible cities and towns, with possible monsters and villians, and... possible Tasha's...
As much as I fondly remember Greyhawk it is a dead setting nowadays. With the popularity of Forgotten Realms I foresee only legacy reminders popping up here and there so WOTC can maintain the IP.
So hold onto your old Greyhawk material and nevermind anything new as it's only bound to be retconned into whatever is the most fashionable at the time. Look at drow for example...they've changed significantly from G3.
Current Characters I am playing: Dr Konstantin van Wulf | Taegen Willowrun | Mad Magnar
Check out my homebrew: Items | Monsters | Spells | Subclasses | Feats