I'm making a urban fantasy campaign where muggles are nonexistent, everyone knows that magic exists. A problem I encountered was one of guns, since I want to keep it high fantasy and shooting a troll with a machine gun would be weird for the group. (I'm not saying no guns, cuz I'm okay with older rifles or pistols.)
I have therefore decided to dive into history. I find the best point to cut off gun use is the American revolution because magicians can interfere with gun mechanics, killing more people in the opposite army then the guns do. So instead of developing guns, they are developing magic devices.
I myself am not American, but I would appreciate any help from people who know about the subject.
Its either they have guns but its very new, Eg. critical role content guns only the ones with a misfire score, it doesn't have to be the guns like mg, or the pistol with the 8 shots, guns like pepperboxes, flintlocks, muskets etc.
I would keep it around the 1500s-1600s. That way most guns would be things like matchlocks which don't fire in bad weather, being inaccurate and fairly slow. Most of the Americas was unexplored at that time, too (so you could have a lot of cool native american monsters and sorcery). Conquistadors, for example, were still using swords, mail and plate armour against the Aztecs and Zapotec on horseback - so it's a setting that makes firearms somewhat "balanced", and even longbows continued in use towards the end of this period. In Europe, you had massive square pike formations mixed with halberdiers/swordsmen in the center and musketeers or arquebusiers on each corner, called a tercio.
There were some other amusing firearms from the early modern era, like the wheellock, which used a spinning pyrite disc to ignite powder. It was pretty much clockwork and you need a small "spanner" to wind it up. I can imagine losing that felt like losing a stylus for your Nintendo DS. But despite the complexity, it had an advantage over the matchlock because it could fire in rain. Something like this would fit nicely alongside Renaissance cities and Leonardo Da-Vinci style flying machines and scuba suits.
Hand-to-hand weapons started to dramatically decline in the late 1700s and 1800s, except for things like cavalry charges, since infantry gunmen were more accurate and smaller targets. Doing D&D without widespread melee or bows is kinda hard.
Perhaps magicians are a sort of "old guard" who monopolized power in traditional societies through ancient magic, but after gunpowder weapons became a thing, they started to see uprisings among the muggles (like you said, everyone knows magic exists, but doesn't mean they can use it). There was mass deforestation and the seed of industrialization in this period, and paganism was virtually stamped out everywhere except syncretic places like Russia and Finland, so I can imagine losing sacred groves or other sites might be a threat to Druids. The printing press made mass production of literature easy, too - arcane casters tend to be very secretive types, so I can imagine this "disenchantment" dwindling the power of Wizards and Warlocks and forcing them into remote places, seeing Clerics or Artificers become the main spellcasters instead - since the Early Modern period was when witch hunts started to really resurge in Europe.
Australia wasn't known in this period either, or some of its coastlines were possibly mapped by the Portuguese, Chinese, and Indonesians. People once believed the Southern hemisphere was occupied by a single massive continent with strange creatures:
If there are still magic swords and stuff laying around from the old days, I would presume there are magical firearms too. Maybe even enchanted bayonets. The DMG gives options for flintlocks pistols and muskets, but I would add HB blunderbusses, carbines, and maybe organ guns or pepperboxes to the list. Just for variety. If you want rifles make them slower to reload than smoothbore muskets but higher effective range.
Keep in mind that pistol and rifle butts were also fairly effective clubs, sometimes capped with ornate metal in the shape of animal heads. A lot of hybrid bloodborne/FF8 style gunblades also existed in this period, which are really fun:
16th century Japan is also interesting for this kind of setting, since it had widespread warfare and firearms while still having a bit of a traditional warrior society and large fortresses:
The only thing I might make a bit less common than vanilla 5e is shields. Widespread plate armour made them redundant and most hand-to-hand weapons for the battlefield shifted to being two-handed (zweihanders, pikes, halberds).
In the animated movie, Wizards (1977 I think?), everyone uses magic in post WW3 Earth, but the final, ultimate wizards' duel...
*MAJOR SPOILER* Like seriously - The Ultimate Spoiler of the movie...
...involved no spells between the kind, small, kinda goofy Avatar and his evil, twisted, tyrant twin brother Blackwolf - just some back-and-forth banter of Blackwolf threatening Avatar, ending with Avatar simply shooting Blackwolf twice... tossing the antique gun away and leaving in silence. Irony is how Blackwolf was using magic to create new technology to defy other people's magic and how Avatar for only one time uses even older, ancient technology to kill Blackwolf.
In summary, never underestimate anything. Everything can be used in the right circumstance. You want guns? You likely can still find room for them in 100% magic setting if you really want them.
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Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
Also, here's a gun for you: the Gun Katar! The Katar (Katara in South India) is a type of dagger from the Indian Subcontinent. The special thing about it is that instead of a hilt, it has a grip, so instead of slashing at people, you would punch with it. In the 1700s, after interactions and trades with the Europeans, they started melding pistols and Kataras together. After the opponent was stabbed, the pistols on the sides would deal the final blow. Look it up, they're awesome!
Personally, I would stick with early firearms like the Handgonne (aka Hand Cannon) for pseudo-European 14th century or Arabic settings and Handgonnes & Fire-Lances for Asian (specifically Chinese) themed settings of the same era. Later Asian eras, like something from Princess Mononoke (for example), would have Handgonnes and Matchlocks. That way its in-line with historical firearms since they appeared about the same time as early plate-armor types (Coat-of-Plates and later Brigandine). If your setting is more European High Medieval-era technology (Breastplates, Plate Armor, Jousting, etc), matchlocks would be appropriate.
Also, here's a gun for you: the Gun Katar! The Katar (Katara in South India) is a type of dagger from the Indian Subcontinent. The special thing about it is that instead of a hilt, it has a grip, so instead of slashing at people, you would punch with it. In the 1700s, after interactions and trades with the Europeans, they started melding pistols and Kataras together. After the opponent was stabbed, the pistols on the sides would deal the final blow. Look it up, they're awesome!
The thing about those, and other such combined gun/melee weapons was that the addition of the gun meant that it wasn't as good at being a melee weapon as simply having a dedicated katar or mace or whatnot, while being used in melee had a detrimental effect on the gun's performance.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Gun Katars were more dedicated to melee as it had all the capabilities of a normal katar + guns. I doubt you would be able to shoot people with it from far away.
Gun Katars were more dedicated to melee as it had all the capabilities of a normal katar + guns. I doubt you would be able to shoot people with it from far away.
You really couldn't. The way such weapons were balanced did not make them stable firing platforms, plus they were short-barreled muzzle loaders that lacked sights. Accurately firing at anything beyond punching distance was effectively impossible.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
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I'm making a urban fantasy campaign where muggles are nonexistent, everyone knows that magic exists. A problem I encountered was one of guns, since I want to keep it high fantasy and shooting a troll with a machine gun would be weird for the group. (I'm not saying no guns, cuz I'm okay with older rifles or pistols.)
I have therefore decided to dive into history. I find the best point to cut off gun use is the American revolution because magicians can interfere with gun mechanics, killing more people in the opposite army then the guns do. So instead of developing guns, they are developing magic devices.
I myself am not American, but I would appreciate any help from people who know about the subject.
Its either they have guns but its very new, Eg. critical role content guns only the ones with a misfire score, it doesn't have to be the guns like mg, or the pistol with the 8 shots, guns like pepperboxes, flintlocks, muskets etc.
I would keep it around the 1500s-1600s. That way most guns would be things like matchlocks which don't fire in bad weather, being inaccurate and fairly slow. Most of the Americas was unexplored at that time, too (so you could have a lot of cool native american monsters and sorcery). Conquistadors, for example, were still using swords, mail and plate armour against the Aztecs and Zapotec on horseback - so it's a setting that makes firearms somewhat "balanced", and even longbows continued in use towards the end of this period. In Europe, you had massive square pike formations mixed with halberdiers/swordsmen in the center and musketeers or arquebusiers on each corner, called a tercio.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pike_and_shot
There were some other amusing firearms from the early modern era, like the wheellock, which used a spinning pyrite disc to ignite powder. It was pretty much clockwork and you need a small "spanner" to wind it up. I can imagine losing that felt like losing a stylus for your Nintendo DS. But despite the complexity, it had an advantage over the matchlock because it could fire in rain. Something like this would fit nicely alongside Renaissance cities and Leonardo Da-Vinci style flying machines and scuba suits.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheellock
Hand-to-hand weapons started to dramatically decline in the late 1700s and 1800s, except for things like cavalry charges, since infantry gunmen were more accurate and smaller targets. Doing D&D without widespread melee or bows is kinda hard.
Perhaps magicians are a sort of "old guard" who monopolized power in traditional societies through ancient magic, but after gunpowder weapons became a thing, they started to see uprisings among the muggles (like you said, everyone knows magic exists, but doesn't mean they can use it). There was mass deforestation and the seed of industrialization in this period, and paganism was virtually stamped out everywhere except syncretic places like Russia and Finland, so I can imagine losing sacred groves or other sites might be a threat to Druids. The printing press made mass production of literature easy, too - arcane casters tend to be very secretive types, so I can imagine this "disenchantment" dwindling the power of Wizards and Warlocks and forcing them into remote places, seeing Clerics or Artificers become the main spellcasters instead - since the Early Modern period was when witch hunts started to really resurge in Europe.
Australia wasn't known in this period either, or some of its coastlines were possibly mapped by the Portuguese, Chinese, and Indonesians. People once believed the Southern hemisphere was occupied by a single massive continent with strange creatures:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_Australis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headless_men
If there are still magic swords and stuff laying around from the old days, I would presume there are magical firearms too. Maybe even enchanted bayonets. The DMG gives options for flintlocks pistols and muskets, but I would add HB blunderbusses, carbines, and maybe organ guns or pepperboxes to the list. Just for variety. If you want rifles make them slower to reload than smoothbore muskets but higher effective range.
Keep in mind that pistol and rifle butts were also fairly effective clubs, sometimes capped with ornate metal in the shape of animal heads. A lot of hybrid bloodborne/FF8 style gunblades also existed in this period, which are really fun:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pistol_sword
16th century Japan is also interesting for this kind of setting, since it had widespread warfare and firearms while still having a bit of a traditional warrior society and large fortresses:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azuchi–Momoyama_period
The only thing I might make a bit less common than vanilla 5e is shields. Widespread plate armour made them redundant and most hand-to-hand weapons for the battlefield shifted to being two-handed (zweihanders, pikes, halberds).
In the animated movie, Wizards (1977 I think?), everyone uses magic in post WW3 Earth, but the final, ultimate wizards' duel...
*MAJOR SPOILER* Like seriously - The Ultimate Spoiler of the movie...
...involved no spells between the kind, small, kinda goofy Avatar and his evil, twisted, tyrant twin brother Blackwolf - just some back-and-forth banter of Blackwolf threatening Avatar, ending with Avatar simply shooting Blackwolf twice... tossing the antique gun away and leaving in silence. Irony is how Blackwolf was using magic to create new technology to defy other people's magic and how Avatar for only one time uses even older, ancient technology to kill Blackwolf.
In summary, never underestimate anything. Everything can be used in the right circumstance. You want guns? You likely can still find room for them in 100% magic setting if you really want them.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I think you should use modern weapons but with small moderations like enchantments or like magical ammunition.
Black Lives Matter
Count as high as you can before Nikoli_Goodfellow Posts!
Extended Signature, The Best Paradox, We all knew it.
I participate in the Level 20 Gladiator Arena with several champions they are all in my extended signature Win Streak: 0 Total Wins: 19 Total Loses: 6
In the Dresden books they had a thing where magic and technology doesn’t mix so the more modern the technology the more unreliable it is around magic.
i have notice that in a lot of "modern day fantasy" books
Black Lives Matter
Count as high as you can before Nikoli_Goodfellow Posts!
Extended Signature, The Best Paradox, We all knew it.
I participate in the Level 20 Gladiator Arena with several champions they are all in my extended signature Win Streak: 0 Total Wins: 19 Total Loses: 6
Use the Renaissance ones from the Dungeon Master's Guide. Make them pricey so players can't exploit the guns too much.
Magic Guns!
No seriously.
What about something like:
A standard gun shape, with some kind of magic item that releases the Thunderwave spell, which pushes items, when triggered..
Make the barrel shape the blast so that anything you put in forcefully comes out like a bullet.
As an added effect gunshots are as loud as thunderclaps
The fire giants made a gundam wheeeeee
I might make this a Magic Item...
if guns an antimagic ring on a permanently reduced cannon but it is quite powerful
I am leader of the yep cult:https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/off-topic/adohands-kitchen/82135-yep-cult Pronouns are she/her
Here is my first spell gun, for Thunderwave!
https://www.dndbeyond.com/magic-items/2360202-spell-blaster-thunderwave
Also, here's a gun for you: the Gun Katar! The Katar (Katara in South India) is a type of dagger from the Indian Subcontinent. The special thing about it is that instead of a hilt, it has a grip, so instead of slashing at people, you would punch with it. In the 1700s, after interactions and trades with the Europeans, they started melding pistols and Kataras together. After the opponent was stabbed, the pistols on the sides would deal the final blow. Look it up, they're awesome!
Personally, I would stick with early firearms like the Handgonne (aka Hand Cannon) for pseudo-European 14th century or Arabic settings and Handgonnes & Fire-Lances for Asian (specifically Chinese) themed settings of the same era. Later Asian eras, like something from Princess Mononoke (for example), would have Handgonnes and Matchlocks. That way its in-line with historical firearms since they appeared about the same time as early plate-armor types (Coat-of-Plates and later Brigandine). If your setting is more European High Medieval-era technology (Breastplates, Plate Armor, Jousting, etc), matchlocks would be appropriate.
Interesting, interesting.
Wish gun?
The fire giants made a gundam wheeeeee
The thing about those, and other such combined gun/melee weapons was that the addition of the gun meant that it wasn't as good at being a melee weapon as simply having a dedicated katar or mace or whatnot, while being used in melee had a detrimental effect on the gun's performance.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Gun Katars were more dedicated to melee as it had all the capabilities of a normal katar + guns. I doubt you would be able to shoot people with it from far away.
You really couldn't. The way such weapons were balanced did not make them stable firing platforms, plus they were short-barreled muzzle loaders that lacked sights. Accurately firing at anything beyond punching distance was effectively impossible.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.