I really think like Champion is already the right class for you. Only some of the Rogue subclasses have a similar level of "no limited resources," and realistically, you're probably going to do as much or more damage as a Champion using a Rapier and Piercer than you are as a Rogue, and you'll be survivable. In a small party that's strapped for resources, that'll help. There's a lot of fiddly stuff to keep track of for Rogues to get their damage in- you need to be sneak attacking every round, and really only have one attack to land it with (or two if you dual wield). As a kobold, any time you're in sunlight.... you either cannot sneak attack at all (if you have disadvantage), or at best will only be able to sneak attack if you can find another source of advantage to knock that down to a straight roll (such as through Pack Tactics, or against a prone target). Rogues may roll a lot of dice, but they aren't big dice, and they don't have many attacks: a single d8+6d6+5+2 at 11th level is only like 32 damage per round, and you can easily miss that attack or fail to qualify for sneak attack that round. At that same level, the Champion will be doing d8+5+2 three times, rerolling one of them, have mixed in a bonus action shield shove for prone to get advantage on two of those attacks, has the option to Action Surge for three more attacks... about the same or more average damage over the round, and you'll have more AC, and more HP.
You're already the right character, and as a pure fighter it really doesn't matter if you're Strength-based and wear plate, or dex-based and wear light or medium armor. I think that the Strength-based champion that picks up Shield Master, Expertise Athletics, and Piercer is probably right for you based on what you've described. If you'd rather be Dex based in light or medium armor, consider Dual Wielder instead of Shield Master and wielding two rapiers with Two-Weapon Fighting Style, or just even still stick with Shield Master and trust that your Expertise in Athletics will still make most shoves land.
However, if 0 resource Management is important to you and DPR is your aim, most Rogues can DPR like you wouldn’t believe, and the less amazing options, like Assassin, is still a contender. They have almost no resources to spend, they just do all their stuff all the time, sneak attack is ridonculous, if you go, say, Scout (for shooting), or Swashbuckler (for stabbing), or Inquisitive (for versatility) you would likely be very happy.
I've actually never played or even touched rogue so I'm surprised that they're a contender for high dpr. However wouldn't my main ability as a kobold, pack tactics, be overlapped and kind of wasted? Besides sneak attack what options do they have for dpr? I don't think they get too many attacks compared to fighter
However, if 0 resource Management is important to you and DPR is your aim, most Rogues can DPR like you wouldn’t believe, and the less amazing options, like Assassin, is still a contender. They have almost no resources to spend, they just do all their stuff all the time, sneak attack is ridonculous, if you go, say, Scout (for shooting), or Swashbuckler (for stabbing), or Inquisitive (for versatility) you would likely be very happy.
I've actually never played or even touched rogue so I'm surprised that they're a contender for high dpr. However wouldn't my main ability as a kobold, pack tactics, be overlapped and kind of wasted? Besides sneak attack what options do they have for dpr? I don't think they get too many attacks compared to fighter
Like Squiggit said, pact tactics grants advantage and advantage allows sneak attacking. No, they only one attack unless they dual wield. For rogues, it isn’t about how many attacks, it’s about one amazing attack on your turn, and trying to get another one on someone else’s turn as a reaction. They don’t really need options besides Sneak Attack, Sneak Attack is awesome. Here are a couple examples:
One effective build for example is Swashbuckler with Sentinel feat, dual wielding shortswords or rapiers. (Personally I like rapier and whip if you can get whip proficiency, the d4 won’t matter, but that reach can be clutch when you do need it.) Because of Footwork they don’t rely on cunning action as much so the BA attack gives a second chance to Sneak Attack if you miss the first. Sentinel gives you more opportunities to attack with your reaction. That is awesome because you can sneak attack on another creatures turn if you meet the criteria. And the Rapier + Whip combo gives you two different reaches to interact with Sentinel. If you can pick up Piercer, cool, but it would only work for the Rapier. However, depending on how you get Whip, like from another feat, then maybe also grab scimitar if it’s a two-for too and take Slasher instead of piercer. If someone is all by themself, footwork in, sneak attack, footwork away. If someone is engaged, footwork, sneak attack, yeet. If you hit both on your turn and on someone else’s, and they are both sneak attacks, then an 11th level Swashbuckler could do (1d8+6d6+bonuses)=30ish on average x2=61ish DPR on average. And because of Rakish Audacity, getting those sneak attacks isn’t hard if you position well. But, this build means you gotta be careful to disengage from the right enemies and stay in melee with the right enemies.
Another effective build is an Arcane Trickster with Hex, and Booming Blade/Green Flame Blade. I’m personally a huge fan of grabbing a level in Wizard somewhere in tier 2, and a second level in tier 3. Overall it’s a net gain in Spellcasting, and you can select a Wiz subclass that fits well, like Divination, Bladesinger, Illusion, Transmutation, or War Magic. The main combat bit is the “blade” cantrip since they still require the attacks be made with a weapon so you can slap sneak attack onto it. Hex adds to the damage, and a Find Familiar can help with the advantage but Mage Hand Legerdemain does too. That means you’re mostly just relying on Cantrips in combat a lot of the time, Mage Hand and Booming/Green Flame Blade. As long as you keep a spell slot available for Hex just in case you’re fine. And since Rogues only get one attack anyway, there’s no reason to not use the cantrip instead of the normal attack action. At 11th level, This character would be doing (1d8+2d8+6d6+1d6+bonuses)=43ish damage on their turn, not including the extra Booming damage if they move, or the Green-Flame damage to the other creature. And if they can get in a sneak attack reaction, even without the cantrip, that’s another 1d8+6d6+1d6+bonuses for 34ish, so somewhere around 77ish DPR. Yeah, there’s a little resource management with the spell slots, but most of them are going to be spent things outside of combat lots of times.
An Inquisitive, Phantom, or Scout with a hand crossbow and crossbow expert are all also very viable.
Sneak attack is no joke. But if you don’t set yourself up for it, or take advantage of how your team is set up, then you won’t get to use it every turn. That’s really the thing, it isn’t resource management you need to pay attention to for Rogues, usually it’s positioning.
You're already the right character, and as a pure fighter it really doesn't matter if you're Strength-based and wear plate, or dex-based and wear light or medium armor. I think that the Strength-based champion that picks up Shield Master, Expertise Athletics, and Piercer is probably right for you based on what you've described. If you'd rather be Dex based in light or medium armor, consider Dual Wielder instead of Shield Master and wielding two rapiers with Two-Weapon Fighting Style, or just even still stick with Shield Master and trust that your Expertise in Athletics will still make most shoves land.
I agree with Chicken for the most part, you probably already have your subclass. I disagree slightly on a couple of choices, but nothing major, mostly my personal preference.* Chicken is closer to what you specifically asked for.
I would probably swap to longsword and whip* and take slasher instead of piercer for a dual wielding Str build, or swap whip for shield and shield master, or maybe swap longsword/rapier for a warhammer and take the Crusher. For a dual wielding Dex build I would look at scimitar & whip and slasher, or Rapier and shield and piercer if not dual wielding.
I say whip because I can’t tell you how often I was super glad I had that reach weapon in the offhand when I needed it, or how ofter I missed it when I didn’t have one. Two rapiers, meh. For dual wielding, only a single attack out of the total has to be made with a different weapon than the rest. Dropping from a d8 to a d4 for one attack sometimes is offset by the number of times you wouldn’t have been able to attack at all without that reach weapon.
Yeah, Piercer is obviously the feat geared specifically towards DPR, and with a Champion fishing for crits, the extra damage from the feat will kick in. But IMO, being able to control the battlefield a bit, like speed reductions, or handing out disadvantage from something like Slasher, or forced positioning and giving your allies advantage to hit someone for a round is amazeballs. IMO it is often worth more than a couple extra damage. And don’t forget that Crusher/Slasheralso works with Opportunity Attacks, so you can move a creature, or slow a creature down on your turn, and again on someone else’s too. If they can’t run away, you don’t have to chase them down. Besides, if the enemy wants to move, that probably means you don’t want them too. Ne?
But I’ll almost always take a little control over some extra DPR. Again, just me.
I really think like Champion is already the right class for you. Only some of the Rogue subclasses have a similar level of "no limited resources," and realistically, you're probably going to do as much or more damage as a Champion using a Rapier and Piercer than you are as a Rogue, and you'll be survivable. In a small party that's strapped for resources, that'll help. There's a lot of fiddly stuff to keep track of for Rogues to get their damage in- you need to be sneak attacking every round, and really only have one attack to land it with (or two if you dual wield). As a kobold, any time you're in sunlight.... you either cannot sneak attack at all (if you have disadvantage), or at best will only be able to sneak attack if you can find another source of advantage to knock that down to a straight roll (such as through Pack Tactics, or against a prone target). Rogues may roll a lot of dice, but they aren't big dice, and they don't have many attacks: a single d8+6d6+5+2 at 11th level is only like 32 damage per round, and you can easily miss that attack or fail to qualify for sneak attack that round. At that same level, the Champion will be doing d8+5+2 three times, rerolling one of them, have mixed in a bonus action shield shove for prone to get advantage on two of those attacks, has the option to Action Surge for three more attacks... about the same or more average damage over the round, and you'll have more AC, and more HP.
You're already the right character, and as a pure fighter it really doesn't matter if you're Strength-based and wear plate, or dex-based and wear light or medium armor. I think that the Strength-based champion that picks up Shield Master, Expertise Athletics, and Piercer is probably right for you based on what you've described. If you'd rather be Dex based in light or medium armor, consider Dual Wielder instead of Shield Master and wielding two rapiers with Two-Weapon Fighting Style, or just even still stick with Shield Master and trust that your Expertise in Athletics will still make most shoves land.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I've actually never played or even touched rogue so I'm surprised that they're a contender for high dpr. However wouldn't my main ability as a kobold, pack tactics, be overlapped and kind of wasted? Besides sneak attack what options do they have for dpr? I don't think they get too many attacks compared to fighter
Wasted? No, completely the opposite. Pack tactics gives you easier access to advantage and rogues need advantage to proc sneak attack.
Like Squiggit said, pact tactics grants advantage and advantage allows sneak attacking. No, they only one attack unless they dual wield. For rogues, it isn’t about how many attacks, it’s about one amazing attack on your turn, and trying to get another one on someone else’s turn as a reaction. They don’t really need options besides Sneak Attack, Sneak Attack is awesome. Here are a couple examples:
One effective build for example is Swashbuckler with Sentinel feat, dual wielding shortswords or rapiers. (Personally I like rapier and whip if you can get whip proficiency, the d4 won’t matter, but that reach can be clutch when you do need it.) Because of Footwork they don’t rely on cunning action as much so the BA attack gives a second chance to Sneak Attack if you miss the first. Sentinel gives you more opportunities to attack with your reaction. That is awesome because you can sneak attack on another creatures turn if you meet the criteria. And the Rapier + Whip combo gives you two different reaches to interact with Sentinel. If you can pick up Piercer, cool, but it would only work for the Rapier. However, depending on how you get Whip, like from another feat, then maybe also grab scimitar if it’s a two-for too and take Slasher instead of piercer.
If someone is all by themself, footwork in, sneak attack, footwork away. If someone is engaged, footwork, sneak attack, yeet. If you hit both on your turn and on someone else’s, and they are both sneak attacks, then an 11th level Swashbuckler could do (1d8+6d6+bonuses)=30ish on average x2=61ish DPR on average. And because of Rakish Audacity, getting those sneak attacks isn’t hard if you position well. But, this build means you gotta be careful to disengage from the right enemies and stay in melee with the right enemies.
Another effective build is an Arcane Trickster with Hex, and Booming Blade/Green Flame Blade. I’m personally a huge fan of grabbing a level in Wizard somewhere in tier 2, and a second level in tier 3. Overall it’s a net gain in Spellcasting, and you can select a Wiz subclass that fits well, like Divination, Bladesinger, Illusion, Transmutation, or War Magic. The main combat bit is the “blade” cantrip since they still require the attacks be made with a weapon so you can slap sneak attack onto it. Hex adds to the damage, and a Find Familiar can help with the advantage but Mage Hand Legerdemain does too. That means you’re mostly just relying on Cantrips in combat a lot of the time, Mage Hand and Booming/Green Flame Blade. As long as you keep a spell slot available for Hex just in case you’re fine. And since Rogues only get one attack anyway, there’s no reason to not use the cantrip instead of the normal attack action.
At 11th level, This character would be doing (1d8+2d8+6d6+1d6+bonuses)=43ish damage on their turn, not including the extra Booming damage if they move, or the Green-Flame damage to the other creature. And if they can get in a sneak attack reaction, even without the cantrip, that’s another 1d8+6d6+1d6+bonuses for 34ish, so somewhere around 77ish DPR. Yeah, there’s a little resource management with the spell slots, but most of them are going to be spent things outside of combat lots of times.
An Inquisitive, Phantom, or Scout with a hand crossbow and crossbow expert are all also very viable.
Sneak attack is no joke. But if you don’t set yourself up for it, or take advantage of how your team is set up, then you won’t get to use it every turn. That’s really the thing, it isn’t resource management you need to pay attention to for Rogues, usually it’s positioning.
But all of that aside:
I agree with Chicken for the most part, you probably already have your subclass. I disagree slightly on a couple of choices, but nothing major, mostly my personal preference.* Chicken is closer to what you specifically asked for.
I would probably swap to longsword and whip* and take slasher instead of piercer for a dual wielding Str build, or swap whip for shield and shield master, or maybe swap longsword/rapier for a warhammer and take the Crusher. For a dual wielding Dex build I would look at scimitar & whip and slasher, or Rapier and shield and piercer if not dual wielding.
I say whip because I can’t tell you how often I was super glad I had that reach weapon in the offhand when I needed it, or how ofter I missed it when I didn’t have one. Two rapiers, meh. For dual wielding, only a single attack out of the total has to be made with a different weapon than the rest. Dropping from a d8 to a d4 for one attack sometimes is offset by the number of times you wouldn’t have been able to attack at all without that reach weapon.
Yeah, Piercer is obviously the feat geared specifically towards DPR, and with a Champion fishing for crits, the extra damage from the feat will kick in. But IMO, being able to control the battlefield a bit, like speed reductions, or handing out disadvantage from something like Slasher, or forced positioning and giving your allies advantage to hit someone for a round is amazeballs. IMO it is often worth more than a couple extra damage. And don’t forget that Crusher/Slasheralso works with Opportunity Attacks, so you can move a creature, or slow a creature down on your turn, and again on someone else’s too. If they can’t run away, you don’t have to chase them down. Besides, if the enemy wants to move, that probably means you don’t want them too. Ne?
But I’ll almost always take a little control over some extra DPR. Again, just me.
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