Ancient Dragons are about 30 feet cubes. Greatwyrms are much larger. And as I said before, time dragons are op. 8000 years as an ancient. About 8000 years ago we only had about 5 mil people. but if that is too much, wait a day and go back again. In two days they all destroy humanity, and in two they get back. It isn't just size and power. You can't nuke someone if they killed your grandmother before your mother even existed. X factors are always so important.
Once, I studied philosophy at university. I wasn't terribly good at it, and also it was stupid, and I stopped doing it and got a job instead. But in philosophy, there's this thing where an argument ends in '... and then just god'. Never in so many words, but that's the gist of it: I've referred to god now, so I'm automatically right and you can't win.
'Time dragons' are the same. I'm sorry, but they are. There are so many things wrong with it, starting with that's not at all how time travel works. Not that time travel works at all, but if it did, it wouldn't work like that. Of course - since it doesn't work at all - you only have my word for that. But remember, I did study philosophy, and badly at that - that makes it better.
So ... I'll grant you there's some source that describes 'time dragons' and ... that's fine. You've divided by zero.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Yeah, if Time Dragons were capable of doing that, they'd be impossible to beat because any tie someone tried to fight them, they'd just go back in time and killed them when they were children or something.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
One green dragon in the ocean bottom of the mareanas trench.
Green dragons can breath under water and fight underwater for survival purposes willing to say it can get enough fish and seaweed to not die of starvation. Green dragon just slowly posion worlds water supply with poison breath. Highly likely you don't notice or think it's some other problem causing it corporate dumping?
One green dragon in the ocean bottom of the mareanas trench.
Green dragons can breath under water and fight underwater for survival purposes willing to say it can get enough fish and seaweed to not die of starvation. Green dragon just slowly posion worlds water supply with poison breath. Highly likely you don't notice or think it's some other problem causing it corporate dumping?
I ... I'm sorry, but I think you have a problem of scale here. A thousand green dragons would still be entirely insufficient to achieve anything what so ever. There's A LOT of water, and A LOT of organisms that clean it up. Quite literally, no one would ever notice.
I did some math (by which I mean I asked AI to do some math): A single dragon would do precisely nothing. A thousand dragons might destroy a local area of sea bed - but no more.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
You are correct let me amend that one black dragon who's regional effects supernatural befoul all water with in 1 mile radius. I don't need thousands to toast the world's water supply a few dozen in key locations will handle it.
They befoul the water that kills fish that spreads to the air
I asked chat gdp to simulate it assuming I had 50 dragons dropped in deep locations. Assuming the dragon did Nothing except exist and passively decide who gets effected by the water or not they win in 20 years.
You are correct let me amend that one black dragon who's regional effects supernatural befoul all water with in 1 mile radius. I don't need thousands to toast the world's water supply a few dozen in key locations will handle it.
They befoul the water that kills fish that spreads to the air
That's better but ... you still have a (slightly less) massive problem of scale. I'm sorry, but you still need THOUSANDS of dragons to do anything that anyone will ever notice. The marianas trench is absolutely massive. It's at least a few HUNDRED thousand cubic miles. It's just .... It's not going to work. You're just not getting the scales right. It's an absolutetly incredible amount of water that you're trying to poison. And you need so many dragons.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Trying to do it from a deep sea trench also presents some considerable circulation problems, setting aside the question of if dragons can survive thousands of pounds per square inch of pressure.
I asked chat gdp to simulate it assuming I had 50 dragons dropped in deep locations.
ChatGPT doesn't know anything, it cannot do logic, it cannot do math, it cannot simulate anything. This argument is completely meaningless. You might as well say "I asked 5 ten year olds".
The Mariana Trench is 1500 miles long, 7 miles deep, 70 miles wide. You could fit 40,000 black dragons in there and their 1 mile radiuses of "befoulment" wouldn't overlap.
You could fit 2 black dragon radiuses without touching just in the Strait that connects Lake Huron and Lake Michigan.
150,000 black dragon radiuses fit across the surface of Hudson's Bay.
Considering it take on average 5 days for a black dragon's lair effects to go away, I assume it takes just as long to create it. In which case it would take 1 black dragon more than 64 years just to poison the water in Hudson's Bay. Or more than 17 years to poison the Great Lakes.
I just reread the opening post, and I'd like to say that ... I am pretty convinced, and argue pretty hard, that modern global strike capability trumps claws and breath weapons pretty badly.
But I hope I'm not making anyone who thinks different ... like, feel bad. If so - I'm sorry. This is a fun discussion, a thought experiment, nothing more.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Trying to do it from a deep sea trench also presents some considerable circulation problems, setting aside the question of if dragons can survive thousands of pounds per square inch of pressure.
Well, there's no default deep sea pressure rules in D&D, even for humanoids, so we really don't know whether any dragons would have had this ability RAW if the game actually accounted for stuff like water pressure or high altitude O2 deprivation. (This isn't an argument for or agaisnt dragons being able to pollute enitire oceans from the Maraiana Trench, but a consideration of the dearth of water exploration rules in 5e, which most are what most people in this thread are basing "dragons" on.)
Once, I studied philosophy at university. I wasn't terribly good at it, and also it was stupid, and I stopped doing it and got a job instead. But in philosophy, there's this thing where an argument ends in '... and then just god'. Never in so many words, but that's the gist of it: I've referred to god now, so I'm automatically right and you can't win.
'Time dragons' are the same. I'm sorry, but they are. There are so many things wrong with it, starting with that's not at all how time travel works. Not that time travel works at all, but if it did, it wouldn't work like that. Of course - since it doesn't work at all - you only have my word for that. But remember, I did study philosophy, and badly at that - that makes it better.
So ... I'll grant you there's some source that describes 'time dragons' and ... that's fine. You've divided by zero.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Yeah, if Time Dragons were capable of doing that, they'd be impossible to beat because any tie someone tried to fight them, they'd just go back in time and killed them when they were children or something.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
One green dragon in the ocean bottom of the mareanas trench.
Green dragons can breath under water and fight underwater for survival purposes willing to say it can get enough fish and seaweed to not die of starvation. Green dragon just slowly posion worlds water supply with poison breath. Highly likely you don't notice or think it's some other problem causing it corporate dumping?
I ... I'm sorry, but I think you have a problem of scale here. A thousand green dragons would still be entirely insufficient to achieve anything what so ever. There's A LOT of water, and A LOT of organisms that clean it up. Quite literally, no one would ever notice.
I did some math (by which I mean I asked AI to do some math): A single dragon would do precisely nothing. A thousand dragons might destroy a local area of sea bed - but no more.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
You are correct let me amend that one black dragon who's regional effects supernatural befoul all water with in 1 mile radius. I don't need thousands to toast the world's water supply a few dozen in key locations will handle it.
They befoul the water that kills fish that spreads to the air
I asked chat gdp to simulate it assuming I had 50 dragons dropped in deep locations. Assuming the dragon did Nothing except exist and passively decide who gets effected by the water or not they win in 20 years.
That's better but ... you still have a (slightly less) massive problem of scale. I'm sorry, but you still need THOUSANDS of dragons to do anything that anyone will ever notice. The marianas trench is absolutely massive. It's at least a few HUNDRED thousand cubic miles. It's just .... It's not going to work. You're just not getting the scales right. It's an absolutetly incredible amount of water that you're trying to poison. And you need so many dragons.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Trying to do it from a deep sea trench also presents some considerable circulation problems, setting aside the question of if dragons can survive thousands of pounds per square inch of pressure.
ChatGPT doesn't know anything, it cannot do logic, it cannot do math, it cannot simulate anything. This argument is completely meaningless. You might as well say "I asked 5 ten year olds".
The Mariana Trench is 1500 miles long, 7 miles deep, 70 miles wide. You could fit 40,000 black dragons in there and their 1 mile radiuses of "befoulment" wouldn't overlap.
You could fit 2 black dragon radiuses without touching just in the Strait that connects Lake Huron and Lake Michigan.
150,000 black dragon radiuses fit across the surface of Hudson's Bay.
Considering it take on average 5 days for a black dragon's lair effects to go away, I assume it takes just as long to create it. In which case it would take 1 black dragon more than 64 years just to poison the water in Hudson's Bay. Or more than 17 years to poison the Great Lakes.
I just reread the opening post, and I'd like to say that ... I am pretty convinced, and argue pretty hard, that modern global strike capability trumps claws and breath weapons pretty badly.
But I hope I'm not making anyone who thinks different ... like, feel bad. If so - I'm sorry. This is a fun discussion, a thought experiment, nothing more.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Well, there's no default deep sea pressure rules in D&D, even for humanoids, so we really don't know whether any dragons would have had this ability RAW if the game actually accounted for stuff like water pressure or high altitude O2 deprivation. (This isn't an argument for or agaisnt dragons being able to pollute enitire oceans from the Maraiana Trench, but a consideration of the dearth of water exploration rules in 5e, which most are what most people in this thread are basing "dragons" on.)