Hello, i would like to hear some ideas or opinions. Im going to play 13 lvl campaign, and i would like to make a really agile character/fighter which is using whip and shortsword(dual wield). Huge inspiration for me is Trevor Belmont ( from animated series). I saw some videos on YTbut the character progress is effective at higher lvls than 13.
So i came here and would like some ideas.
Campaign - max 13 lvl.
We will get 1 free feat. No race or class is banned.
If you want versatile fighting style and effect use battle master, if you want to deal more damage and survive better try champion subclass.
So no multiclass, just straight fighter?
Generally it is better to play in singleclass. Multiclassing is only worthwhile in very few cases. This speaking in terms of optimization. If you want to mix mechanics because you think it's more fun, go ahead. But you have to remember that multiclasses have several problems. The most immediate is that you slow down your progression, especially the ASIS. There are also mechanics that are not compatible with each other. For example, wearing armor or a shield precludes the use of features like Unarmored Defense or Bladesong. And if you don't share the important ability scores, your character is going to be MAD.
Unless you want something from another class for your build, it's best to make it a singleclass. With the fighter you can perfectly make the build you have in mind without multiclassing. The whip isn't really going to give you much, but if it's what you want to play, go ahead.
By the way, these threads better in Tip and Tactics or in the specific subforum of the class. For keeping this a bit tidy.
If you want versatile fighting style and effect use battle master, if you want to deal more damage and survive better try champion subclass.
So no multiclass, just straight fighter?
Generally it is better to play in singleclass. Multiclassing is only worthwhile in very few cases. This speaking in terms of optimization. If you want to mix mechanics because you think it's more fun, go ahead. But you have to remember that multiclasses have several problems. The most immediate is that you slow down your progression, especially the ASIS. There are also mechanics that are not compatible with each other. For example, wearing armor or a shield precludes the use of features like Unarmored Defense or Bladesong. And if you don't share the important ability scores, your character is going to be MAD.
Unless you want something from another class for your build, it's best to make it a singleclass. With the fighter you can perfectly make the build you have in mind without multiclassing. The whip isn't really going to give you much, but if it's what you want to play, go ahead.
By the way, these threads better in Tip and Tactics or in the specific subforum of the class. For keeping this a bit tidy.
Ye sorry, but i didnt know to which class post it. I saw Swashbuckler/Champion combo, Kensei monk/fighter. So thats why im asking which multiclass or straight class, would be optimized and good for 13 lvl campaing like ive mentioned above
If I wanted to try to replicate Trevor Belmont I would pro’ly go straight Battle Master with Variant Human to pick up Arcana proficiency and an additional feat (like the one from the current UA article).
Ye sorry, but i didnt know to which class post it. I saw Swashbuckler/Champion combo, Kensei monk/fighter. So thats why im asking which multiclass or straight class, would be optimized and good for 13 lvl campaing like ive mentioned above.
Eladrin or shadar-kai from MMotM, with the Elven Accuracy feat.
4-levels of swashbuckler rogue, for the sneak attack, cunning action, steady aim, and your first ability score improvement.
Then if you take the rest of your levels in champion fighter, you get the fighting style, second wind, action surge, and critting on a 19-20 at triple advantage with steady aim means you're landing a critical hit with 1/4 of your attacks at L7 when you're already in melee-range.
Trevor seems like a straight up fighter that maxes dex. Maybe a level of rogue, but going full fighter will be good enough if you're new and don't want to multiclass. As others have said, Battlemaster for maneuvers/Trevor's cool whip moves
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I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
To me character optimization is based on stats, campaign, group and GM style. So I make a PC based on that info and go from their. Since you have a theme I would ask does my theme fit the campaign, my stats, group and game style? If the game is all social encounters does your idea fit? Or if the game is all combat encounters does your idea fit?
You get a free feat that can go along way to help you fill in any areas that you need for the campaign and group style, ie more HP tough, more skills skilled, basic spells magic initiate, etc.
In general as I said above does if I am making a PC I try and give the GM a heads up if I have a PC plan to see if it is ok with their game direction. ie Is my idea too silly? Not silly enough? Or simply does not work at all.
To me character optimization is based on stats, campaign, group and GM style. So I make a PC based on that info and go from their. Since you have a theme I would ask does my theme fit the campaign, my stats, group and game style? If the game is all social encounters does your idea fit? Or if the game is all combat encounters does your idea fit?
You get a free feat that can go along way to help you fill in any areas that you need for the campaign and group style, ie more HP tough, more skills skilled, basic spells magic initiate, etc.
In general as I said above does if I am making a PC I try and give the GM a heads up if I have a PC plan to see if it is ok with their game direction. ie Is my idea too silly? Not silly enough? Or simply does not work at all.
Good Luck
As fort the first part, it all fits. Our party is Druid(Circle of the Moon), Arcane Trickster, Chronurgy Wizard. Also our DM is writing adventure book(max level 13). And my character fits there perfectly due to some major events in that book.
Also DM also likes my idea of the character, even the inspiration of Trevor. So i just wanted to ask for the best way to build him. This would be my 3rd character, and the previous two i build to lvl 20, so i didnt had a lvl cap. So im pretty new to "optimize" character(when multiclassing). If I´ll go straight class, its not a problem. More opinions, from other players kinda help :).
Hello, i would like to hear some ideas or opinions. Im going to play 13 lvl campaign, and i would like to make a really agile character/fighter which is using whip and shortsword(dual wield). Huge inspiration for me is Trevor Belmont ( from animated series). I saw some videos on YTbut the character progress is effective at higher lvls than 13.
So i came here and would like some ideas.
Campaign - max 13 lvl.
We will get 1 free feat. No race or class is banned.
Thanks
It's fundamentally not solvable with any build that short swords and whips have different amounts of reach. Do you absolutely need your "short sword" to be the weapon listed in the PHB under the name "short sword", or can we re-skin another weapon which will make builds easier (e.g. a rapier, which increases your damage in exchange for giving up the Light property - which is nearly useless to you since there's no generally useful way to engage in twf with weapons of different reach values, or a scimitar, which lets you have the same damage type on both weapons)?
It's intrinsically challenging in 5E making a build where whips do strong work. Part of this is that we don't have the rules support for what whips should be able to do (e.g. you can't grapple someone at 10 feet with a whip), and part of it is that we have plenty of rules that don't properly scale with weapon reach - for example, neither Swashbuckler rogues nor the Booming Blade spell will scale up to a whip (and the rules for prone won't either, which is a big deal). Rogues are written to be the premier whip wielders in the PHB since they are so keen on their melee weapons being finesse (meaning it's their only reach option if they want Sneak Attack to be legal), but it's still difficult coming up with a build worth a damn that genuinely wants a whip so badly.
These issues are only exacerbated by trying to make a build with a preference for finesse weapons on an agile chassis without a strong preference for carrying a ranged weapon.
As fort the first part, it all fits. Our party is Druid(Circle of the Moon), Arcane Trickster, Chronurgy Wizard. Also our DM is writing adventure book(max level 13). And my character fits there perfectly due to some major events in that book.
Also DM also likes my idea of the character, even the inspiration of Trevor. So i just wanted to ask for the best way to build him. This would be my 3rd character, and the previous two i build to lvl 20, so i didnt had a lvl cap. So im pretty new to "optimize" character(when multiclassing). If I´ll go straight class, its not a problem. More opinions, from other players kinda help :).
Having an Arcane Trickster in the party makes your build incapable of existing without overlap, because both conceptually and mechanically, they're making a very agile fighter who will be incredibly competent with a short sword. This is particularly crippling because we will epically fail to simulate Trevor Belmont if we make a build with spellcasting, and Rogue is one of only 4 classes available where we can duck all spellcasting. Plus, it's pretty much impossible to make a pure Barbarian with a deep and abiding interest in whips, and while you can do it with a multiclassed Barbarian, you do it by multiclassing into... Rogue.
Best I can come up (stolen from someone else on the internet and modified for you) with both has spellcasting (although it doesn't need M components, which can make it easier to re-flavor the abilities as not being similar to what proper spellcasters are slinging) and has... exotic weapon preferences (see below - I gave up on using a short sword per se and focused on wielding a sword with Dexterity). It can be modified to lean more heavily into spellcasting provided your DM is willing to homebrew non-MPMM races to follow the MPMM design principle of handling racial spellcasting by allowing spell slots to be used to cast racials, which will do a lot to justify both Eldritch Knight and spellcaster classes (namely Ranger, Druid, and Cleric) as alternatives to Battle Master by giving you extra slots for more Darkness, provided you use Cleric or Druid for at least part of it to reach having L2 slots base.
Preferred weaponry: You want to be wielding a whip off-turn for OAs, but you want to be wielding a longsword (or warhammer) on-turn in both hands to deal 1d10 damage per hit base (especially against a proned target), so your general approach to fighting is weapon juggling. Depending on how strict your DM wants to be about the item interaction rules, you may need to collect a lot of whips, as you have the necessary action economy in general to ready a whip at the end of your turn but not to also stow it at the beginning of your turn. Under strict RAW, you'll want to begin most turns by dropping your whip, which means you'll want to be covered in whips so you can draw another at the end of your turn. Alternatively, you can ask your DM for a homebrew whip that you don't need to stow, like a slightly magical whip that teleports onto your belt when dropped or whatever.
Note: In a big way, the above build's approach to combat can be fundamentally done with a Hexblade chassis, but there are numerous differences, including that we fundamentally lose interest in being very agile - you'd end up Dex 14 that way, leaning into Charisma as your attack stat.
Multiclassing is always always more beneficial then going single class. Especially if you won't go all the ay to level 20. That said, iIf you want to go a slightly different route may I suggest a Hexblade Warlock 3/Battle Master 10? If so, this is what you do: (Note: This build works both as a Strength based Fighter wearing heavy armour or as Dex based Fighter. If you want to go Strength based just reverse the Dex and Strength stats and start out as a fighter.)
Level 1 Race: Variant Human. Background: Noble. Class: Hexblade Warlock Starting feat from V. Human: Eldritch Adept - Agonizing Blast. Free feat: Tough Starting stats using Point buy/SPA(including race bonuses): Cha 16, Con and Dex at 14. The rest whatever you feel like. Pick Eldritch Blast as one of your cantrips. Create Bonfire can also be useful to light up dark ares (talk to your GM for how much it lights up). Use Hex warrior to be able to swing a whip using your charisma. Or you can reflavor Eldritch blast to be a whip. In either case, you will want to get a shield and a breastplate (or half-plate) as soon as possible.
Levels 2-6 Quickly jump over to Fighter for the next five levels. For fighting style I'd recommend Superior Technique (you will want as many superiority dice as possible) or Duelling for a more even damage output. Choose whichever maneuvers you feel are best suited, at fighter level 10 you will end up with 10 options. My favourites are Bait and Switch, Parry, Feinting Attack, Menacing Attack, Rally (works well with Hex Warrior), Riposte and Trip Attack. Trip Attack also works well combined with Grappling attack, first trip them, then Grapple them. Then beat the snot out of them. Precision attack is also not bad. At Fighter Lvl 4, boost your Charisma to 18.
Levels 7-8 Back to Warlock. Get the Devil's Sight Invocation so you don't have to rely on magic to see in the dark. At Warlock 3 you take Pact of the Blade to get the Improved Pact weapon invocation. Your whip is now magical and has +1 to hit and to damage rolls. Pick whatever spells you think are the most interesting. I suggest things useful out of combat since your concentration checks aren't really that good. Blur is always good, though.
Levels 9-13 Go back to Fighter for the rest of the way. Cap of your Charisma at Fighter level 6. At Fighter level 8 take the Martial Adept feat for more maneuvers and one more Sup. die. Use your whip when fighting up close, blast things with Eldritch Blast from afar. At fighter level 10 your superiority dice increases to D10s, which is really good.
Final notes: The reason I took a few levels of Hexlock is first of all to tap into that dark magic that the Belmonts are kind of famous for. Also it's one of the best and most effective ways to get a magic whip. If you have talked to your DM and you know you will get one you might do with just two or perhaps even just one level of Warlock. This would give you a third attack and possibly another ASI. If so, I'd use that to bump Con.
Overall, Battle Master and Hexblade Warlock works really well together since they both recharge on short rests. You will have good defence (19 AC with shield and half-plate, add Blur for disadvantage), fairly good damage output in melee (the whip only does 1D4 in damage but throw on a superiority die and that increases quite a bit), awesome damage output when using Eldritch blast and quite a few other fun features both in and out of combat. The Tough feat also provides a nice chunk of HP which means that on average you should have about 130HP at level 13. Not bad at all. If you play as a Variant human you will have two feats to start with which allows you to play around quite a bit with stats and other feats.
EDIT: If you want to maximize damage you can of course just pick a longsword for your pact weapon and use the whip just for flavour. I wouldn't, though. :)
Multi-classing CAN occasionally be better than single classing, but it takes a lot of planning. Also, it is rarely a good idea to take more than 3 levels of your non-primary class.
1) Higher level abilities are better than lower level abilities. Just as a 9th level spell beats a 1st level spell, getting higher level powers is worth it.
2) Many classes have stacking stuff, such as Fighter's Extra attacks that only stack when you single class.
------------
Your main idea is to be a whip and short sword guy. TWF only really makes sense if you are trying to get as many extra attacks as possible, even if they each individually do less damage. So you either want crits, trying to get as many as possible, or you want something like Sneak Attack that applies once per round. The whip makes gives you reach, and work with either of them.
A crit build would obviously be a Champion fighter, probably Elven race for Elven Accuracy, with feats taken to get you advantage. No need to multi-class, just go pure Elven Champion, using your feats for Dual Wielder, Elven Accuracy, Defensive Duelist, Dex boosts, Grappling, Mounted Combatant, and whatever else you like. For your fighting style take TWF. Note Grappling fits with Trevor build.
I think this is closer to the Trevor from Castlevania.
The Sneak Attack build would be a Phatasm Rogue from Tasha's.
Again, the feats you want will be Dual Wielding, Defensive Duelist, Dex Boosts, Fighting Initiate (TWF fighting Style), Grappling and whatever other feats you like.
The Phatasm Rogue's ability to do extra necro damage to a third party when you sneak attack is POWERFUL, and while Trevor does not have any necromantic powers, he does come from a world where it is common. Being a version of him that has learned a bit more about death and using it makes sense to me.
Multi-classing CAN occasionally be better than single classing, but it takes a lot of planning. Also, it is rarely a good idea to take more than 3 levels of your non-primary class.
Most optimized builds include multiclassing. This is due to how front-heavy most classes are in 5E. But yes, you do usually get the most out of just a few levels of dipping. Which supports the theory that multiclassing is really powerful. :)
1) Higher level abilities are better than lower level abilities. Just as a 9th level spell beats a 1st level spell, getting higher level powers.
Not always true. The Bard, Monk and Ranger capstones are all pretty crappy. The Sorcerer capstone also isn't that fantastic and the Monk's timeless body is situational at best (the Monk really get their capstone at level 14).
2) Many classes have stacking stuff, such as Fighter's Extra attacks that only stack when you single class.
True. Not all multiclass combos are great, or even good. It's only the first Extra attack that doesn't stack though. A Fighter 11/Ranger 5 would still get three attacks, for example. But now we're getting a bit off topic. My bad. :)
Lostwhilefishing, I don't really think we are disagreeing, just coming at the same result from a different attitude. Most is very subjective. Also, just as not all 9th level spells are good ones (Weird and Powerword Heal are on the weak side), some capstone abilities are weaker than others. In addition to your Sorcerer Capstone being average at best, I would contend that Wizard is also average side also (effectively +2 spells known and +2 3rd slots). That leaves 7 of 13 classes with GOOD capstones. The other five (Bard, Monk, Ranger, Sorcerer, Wizard) often have no good reason to multi-class UNTIL they hit 19th level, because they want the 19th level feat. Bard, Sorcerer and Wizard, being primary spellcasters, are quite likely to play single class till they get 9th level spells at 17th level, and only somwhere in the last 3 levels take another class. Would you really call them a multi-class build when for all 90% of their game they played a single class character?
Finally, I would point out that if you are multi-classing then you have to think about it and plan, so you end up on the forums talking about it. If you are going full primary class, you just do it without talking about it. Which gives a false impression that everyone is multi-classing because the far majority of people that are optimizing are not talking about the fact that they are just sticking with a single class.
Lostwhilefishing, I don't really think we are disagreeing, just coming at the same result from a different attitude. Most is very subjective.
I don't really think we are disagreeing either, we're just discussing the details. However, some things are not subjective at all. For example, a Hexblade Warlock 1/Swords bard X (where X is anywhere from 3 to 19) is objectively better than going pure swords bard. And there are plenty of builds where slowing down the main class progression for a few levels doesn't have any impact on the effectiveness, often quite the opposite.
But to answer your question, as soon as you have multiclassed, even by just a 1 level dip, you can call them multiclassed. :)
Finally, I would point out that if you are multi-classing then you have to think about it and plan, so you end up on the forums talking about it. If you are going full primary class, you just do it without talking about it. Which gives a false impression that everyone is multi-classing because the far majority of people that are optimizing are not talking about the fact that they are just sticking with a single class.
The most optimized (whether or not you want to call them over-powered is up to anyone to decide) builds are pretty much always multiclassed (Artificers are one of the few exceptions). There is almost never a reason to wait until the last level to multiclass and in fact, most multiclass dips happen at first, second or maybe sixth level. This is partly due to the fact not many games go all the way to level 20 but mostly because you can get really powerful builds by multiclassing long before that. The things you get from multiclassing is often way more powerful at earlier levels than an ASI at level 19.
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Hello, i would like to hear some ideas or opinions. Im going to play 13 lvl campaign, and i would like to make a really agile character/fighter which is using whip and shortsword(dual wield). Huge inspiration for me is Trevor Belmont ( from animated series). I saw some videos on YTbut the character progress is effective at higher lvls than 13.
So i came here and would like some ideas.
Campaign - max 13 lvl.
We will get 1 free feat. No race or class is banned.
Thanks
If you want versatile fighting style and effect use battle master, if you want to deal more damage and survive better try champion subclass.
So no multiclass, just straight fighter?
Generally it is better to play in singleclass. Multiclassing is only worthwhile in very few cases. This speaking in terms of optimization.
If you want to mix mechanics because you think it's more fun, go ahead. But you have to remember that multiclasses have several problems. The most immediate is that you slow down your progression, especially the ASIS. There are also mechanics that are not compatible with each other. For example, wearing armor or a shield precludes the use of features like Unarmored Defense or Bladesong. And if you don't share the important ability scores, your character is going to be MAD.
Unless you want something from another class for your build, it's best to make it a singleclass. With the fighter you can perfectly make the build you have in mind without multiclassing. The whip isn't really going to give you much, but if it's what you want to play, go ahead.
By the way, these threads better in Tip and Tactics or in the specific subforum of the class. For keeping this a bit tidy.
Ye sorry, but i didnt know to which class post it. I saw Swashbuckler/Champion combo, Kensei monk/fighter. So thats why im asking which multiclass or straight class, would be optimized and good for 13 lvl campaing like ive mentioned above
If I wanted to try to replicate Trevor Belmont I would pro’ly go straight Battle Master with Variant Human to pick up Arcana proficiency and an additional feat (like the one from the current UA article).
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Eladrin or shadar-kai from MMotM, with the Elven Accuracy feat.
4-levels of swashbuckler rogue, for the sneak attack, cunning action, steady aim, and your first ability score improvement.
Then if you take the rest of your levels in champion fighter, you get the fighting style, second wind, action surge, and critting on a 19-20 at triple advantage with steady aim means you're landing a critical hit with 1/4 of your attacks at L7 when you're already in melee-range.
Trevor seems like a straight up fighter that maxes dex. Maybe a level of rogue, but going full fighter will be good enough if you're new and don't want to multiclass. As others have said, Battlemaster for maneuvers/Trevor's cool whip moves
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
To me character optimization is based on stats, campaign, group and GM style. So I make a PC based on that info and go from their. Since you have a theme I would ask does my theme fit the campaign, my stats, group and game style? If the game is all social encounters does your idea fit? Or if the game is all combat encounters does your idea fit?
You get a free feat that can go along way to help you fill in any areas that you need for the campaign and group style, ie more HP tough, more skills skilled, basic spells magic initiate, etc.
In general as I said above does if I am making a PC I try and give the GM a heads up if I have a PC plan to see if it is ok with their game direction. ie Is my idea too silly? Not silly enough? Or simply does not work at all.
Good Luck
As fort the first part, it all fits. Our party is Druid(Circle of the Moon), Arcane Trickster, Chronurgy Wizard. Also our DM is writing adventure book(max level 13). And my character fits there perfectly due to some major events in that book.
Also DM also likes my idea of the character, even the inspiration of Trevor. So i just wanted to ask for the best way to build him. This would be my 3rd character, and the previous two i build to lvl 20, so i didnt had a lvl cap. So im pretty new to "optimize" character(when multiclassing). If I´ll go straight class, its not a problem. More opinions, from other players kinda help :).
It's fundamentally not solvable with any build that short swords and whips have different amounts of reach. Do you absolutely need your "short sword" to be the weapon listed in the PHB under the name "short sword", or can we re-skin another weapon which will make builds easier (e.g. a rapier, which increases your damage in exchange for giving up the Light property - which is nearly useless to you since there's no generally useful way to engage in twf with weapons of different reach values, or a scimitar, which lets you have the same damage type on both weapons)?
It's intrinsically challenging in 5E making a build where whips do strong work. Part of this is that we don't have the rules support for what whips should be able to do (e.g. you can't grapple someone at 10 feet with a whip), and part of it is that we have plenty of rules that don't properly scale with weapon reach - for example, neither Swashbuckler rogues nor the Booming Blade spell will scale up to a whip (and the rules for prone won't either, which is a big deal). Rogues are written to be the premier whip wielders in the PHB since they are so keen on their melee weapons being finesse (meaning it's their only reach option if they want Sneak Attack to be legal), but it's still difficult coming up with a build worth a damn that genuinely wants a whip so badly.
These issues are only exacerbated by trying to make a build with a preference for finesse weapons on an agile chassis without a strong preference for carrying a ranged weapon.
Having an Arcane Trickster in the party makes your build incapable of existing without overlap, because both conceptually and mechanically, they're making a very agile fighter who will be incredibly competent with a short sword. This is particularly crippling because we will epically fail to simulate Trevor Belmont if we make a build with spellcasting, and Rogue is one of only 4 classes available where we can duck all spellcasting. Plus, it's pretty much impossible to make a pure Barbarian with a deep and abiding interest in whips, and while you can do it with a multiclassed Barbarian, you do it by multiclassing into... Rogue.
Best I can come up (stolen from someone else on the internet and modified for you) with both has spellcasting (although it doesn't need M components, which can make it easier to re-flavor the abilities as not being similar to what proper spellcasters are slinging) and has... exotic weapon preferences (see below - I gave up on using a short sword per se and focused on wielding a sword with Dexterity). It can be modified to lean more heavily into spellcasting provided your DM is willing to homebrew non-MPMM races to follow the MPMM design principle of handling racial spellcasting by allowing spell slots to be used to cast racials, which will do a lot to justify both Eldritch Knight and spellcaster classes (namely Ranger, Druid, and Cleric) as alternatives to Battle Master by giving you extra slots for more Darkness, provided you use Cleric or Druid for at least part of it to reach having L2 slots base.
Half-Drow Fighter 1 / Shadow Monk +5 / Battle Master +3 / Shadow Monk +4 (Total: Shadow Monk 9 / Battle Master Fighter 4)
Starting Stats (Point Buy): 17 Dex / 16 Wis / 16 Con
ASIs: Elven Accuracy(Dex) @1, 20 Dex @5, 18 Wis @9, 20 Wis @12
Maneuvers: Tripping Attack, Riposte, Brace
Fighting Style: Blind-Fighting
Preferred weaponry: You want to be wielding a whip off-turn for OAs, but you want to be wielding a longsword (or warhammer) on-turn in both hands to deal 1d10 damage per hit base (especially against a proned target), so your general approach to fighting is weapon juggling. Depending on how strict your DM wants to be about the item interaction rules, you may need to collect a lot of whips, as you have the necessary action economy in general to ready a whip at the end of your turn but not to also stow it at the beginning of your turn. Under strict RAW, you'll want to begin most turns by dropping your whip, which means you'll want to be covered in whips so you can draw another at the end of your turn. Alternatively, you can ask your DM for a homebrew whip that you don't need to stow, like a slightly magical whip that teleports onto your belt when dropped or whatever.
Note: In a big way, the above build's approach to combat can be fundamentally done with a Hexblade chassis, but there are numerous differences, including that we fundamentally lose interest in being very agile - you'd end up Dex 14 that way, leaning into Charisma as your attack stat.
Multiclassing is always always more beneficial then going single class. Especially if you won't go all the ay to level 20. That said, iIf you want to go a slightly different route may I suggest a Hexblade Warlock 3/Battle Master 10? If so, this is what you do:
(Note: This build works both as a Strength based Fighter wearing heavy armour or as Dex based Fighter. If you want to go Strength based just reverse the Dex and Strength stats and start out as a fighter.)
Level 1
Race: Variant Human. Background: Noble. Class: Hexblade Warlock
Starting feat from V. Human: Eldritch Adept - Agonizing Blast. Free feat: Tough
Starting stats using Point buy/SPA(including race bonuses): Cha 16, Con and Dex at 14. The rest whatever you feel like.
Pick Eldritch Blast as one of your cantrips. Create Bonfire can also be useful to light up dark ares (talk to your GM for how much it lights up). Use Hex warrior to be able to swing a whip using your charisma. Or you can reflavor Eldritch blast to be a whip. In either case, you will want to get a shield and a breastplate (or half-plate) as soon as possible.
Levels 2-6
Quickly jump over to Fighter for the next five levels. For fighting style I'd recommend Superior Technique (you will want as many superiority dice as possible) or Duelling for a more even damage output. Choose whichever maneuvers you feel are best suited, at fighter level 10 you will end up with 10 options. My favourites are Bait and Switch, Parry, Feinting Attack, Menacing Attack, Rally (works well with Hex Warrior), Riposte and Trip Attack. Trip Attack also works well combined with Grappling attack, first trip them, then Grapple them. Then beat the snot out of them. Precision attack is also not bad.
At Fighter Lvl 4, boost your Charisma to 18.
Levels 7-8
Back to Warlock. Get the Devil's Sight Invocation so you don't have to rely on magic to see in the dark. At Warlock 3 you take Pact of the Blade to get the Improved Pact weapon invocation. Your whip is now magical and has +1 to hit and to damage rolls. Pick whatever spells you think are the most interesting. I suggest things useful out of combat since your concentration checks aren't really that good. Blur is always good, though.
Levels 9-13
Go back to Fighter for the rest of the way. Cap of your Charisma at Fighter level 6. At Fighter level 8 take the Martial Adept feat for more maneuvers and one more Sup. die. Use your whip when fighting up close, blast things with Eldritch Blast from afar. At fighter level 10 your superiority dice increases to D10s, which is really good.
Final notes:
The reason I took a few levels of Hexlock is first of all to tap into that dark magic that the Belmonts are kind of famous for. Also it's one of the best and most effective ways to get a magic whip. If you have talked to your DM and you know you will get one you might do with just two or perhaps even just one level of Warlock. This would give you a third attack and possibly another ASI. If so, I'd use that to bump Con.
Overall, Battle Master and Hexblade Warlock works really well together since they both recharge on short rests. You will have good defence (19 AC with shield and half-plate, add Blur for disadvantage), fairly good damage output in melee (the whip only does 1D4 in damage but throw on a superiority die and that increases quite a bit), awesome damage output when using Eldritch blast and quite a few other fun features both in and out of combat. The Tough feat also provides a nice chunk of HP which means that on average you should have about 130HP at level 13. Not bad at all.
If you play as a Variant human you will have two feats to start with which allows you to play around quite a bit with stats and other feats.
EDIT: If you want to maximize damage you can of course just pick a longsword for your pact weapon and use the whip just for flavour. I wouldn't, though. :)
Multi-classing CAN occasionally be better than single classing, but it takes a lot of planning. Also, it is rarely a good idea to take more than 3 levels of your non-primary class.
1) Higher level abilities are better than lower level abilities. Just as a 9th level spell beats a 1st level spell, getting higher level powers is worth it.
2) Many classes have stacking stuff, such as Fighter's Extra attacks that only stack when you single class.
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Your main idea is to be a whip and short sword guy. TWF only really makes sense if you are trying to get as many extra attacks as possible, even if they each individually do less damage. So you either want crits, trying to get as many as possible, or you want something like Sneak Attack that applies once per round. The whip makes gives you reach, and work with either of them.
A crit build would obviously be a Champion fighter, probably Elven race for Elven Accuracy, with feats taken to get you advantage. No need to multi-class, just go pure Elven Champion, using your feats for Dual Wielder, Elven Accuracy, Defensive Duelist, Dex boosts, Grappling, Mounted Combatant, and whatever else you like. For your fighting style take TWF. Note Grappling fits with Trevor build.
I think this is closer to the Trevor from Castlevania.
The Sneak Attack build would be a Phatasm Rogue from Tasha's.
Again, the feats you want will be Dual Wielding, Defensive Duelist, Dex Boosts, Fighting Initiate (TWF fighting Style), Grappling and whatever other feats you like.
The Phatasm Rogue's ability to do extra necro damage to a third party when you sneak attack is POWERFUL, and while Trevor does not have any necromantic powers, he does come from a world where it is common. Being a version of him that has learned a bit more about death and using it makes sense to me.
Most optimized builds include multiclassing. This is due to how front-heavy most classes are in 5E. But yes, you do usually get the most out of just a few levels of dipping. Which supports the theory that multiclassing is really powerful. :)
Not always true. The Bard, Monk and Ranger capstones are all pretty crappy. The Sorcerer capstone also isn't that fantastic and the Monk's timeless body is situational at best (the Monk really get their capstone at level 14).
True. Not all multiclass combos are great, or even good. It's only the first Extra attack that doesn't stack though. A Fighter 11/Ranger 5 would still get three attacks, for example. But now we're getting a bit off topic. My bad. :)
Lostwhilefishing, I don't really think we are disagreeing, just coming at the same result from a different attitude. Most is very subjective. Also, just as not all 9th level spells are good ones (Weird and Powerword Heal are on the weak side), some capstone abilities are weaker than others. In addition to your Sorcerer Capstone being average at best, I would contend that Wizard is also average side also (effectively +2 spells known and +2 3rd slots). That leaves 7 of 13 classes with GOOD capstones. The other five (Bard, Monk, Ranger, Sorcerer, Wizard) often have no good reason to multi-class UNTIL they hit 19th level, because they want the 19th level feat. Bard, Sorcerer and Wizard, being primary spellcasters, are quite likely to play single class till they get 9th level spells at 17th level, and only somwhere in the last 3 levels take another class. Would you really call them a multi-class build when for all 90% of their game they played a single class character?
Finally, I would point out that if you are multi-classing then you have to think about it and plan, so you end up on the forums talking about it. If you are going full primary class, you just do it without talking about it. Which gives a false impression that everyone is multi-classing because the far majority of people that are optimizing are not talking about the fact that they are just sticking with a single class.
I don't really think we are disagreeing either, we're just discussing the details. However, some things are not subjective at all. For example, a Hexblade Warlock 1/Swords bard X (where X is anywhere from 3 to 19) is objectively better than going pure swords bard. And there are plenty of builds where slowing down the main class progression for a few levels doesn't have any impact on the effectiveness, often quite the opposite.
But to answer your question, as soon as you have multiclassed, even by just a 1 level dip, you can call them multiclassed. :)
The most optimized (whether or not you want to call them over-powered is up to anyone to decide) builds are pretty much always multiclassed (Artificers are one of the few exceptions). There is almost never a reason to wait until the last level to multiclass and in fact, most multiclass dips happen at first, second or maybe sixth level. This is partly due to the fact not many games go all the way to level 20 but mostly because you can get really powerful builds by multiclassing long before that. The things you get from multiclassing is often way more powerful at earlier levels than an ASI at level 19.