Hello Wizard, so you're at least level 15. You know the Clone and Teleport spells and you've procured a secure place to hide your clone pots.
How many clones do you make? I mean I understand there's cost and a space issue and of course it isn't limited to you.
Your companions could all have clones too. It's nice to know that the ranger's animal companion won't ever truly die. Each clone take 120 days to mature (which is 4 months) so do you make a new one each month or maybe a new one each day? Just for yourself or do you include your companions?
It's a nice tactic for Immortality. But I guess if you abuse it the DM is going to have some enemy raid your hideout and unalive your clones.
Edit: I guess this is why there are so many dungeons. Just wizards trying to protect their stuff and live forever.
Well, each person can usefully only have one Clone waiting for them.
It would be up to the DM to decide what happens when you die if there are 3 Clones waiting - does your spirit get split between the three, so each only gets a third of your personality/abilities?
As a DM trying to stop your characters from becoming immortal, you could introduce a mechanic where if a PC has more than one clone then their soul does not only go into one clone, but splits leaving a portion of the soul in each clone. This could be narratively fun but also allow the player to know that this gameplay is a little boring because it defeats the threat of any encounter, as you can essentially respawn whenever you want.
Otherwise, if the DM is ok with multiple clones, it would really be up to their discretion on how many clones you can have at any given moment.
Well we saw what happened in Harry Potter when Voldemort split his soul.
Would make for an interesting backstory. A powerful wizard creates 15 clones, young and strong. When he dies his soul is split between them. His power is split also (each clone is level 1).
Each clone wakes up in a different part of the world. Young and strong, but confused. Their memories are fractured, scattered amongst them.
A voice in their head informs them that they are unnatural. It explains what happened and tells them that they must correct their mistake or risk the collapse of reality itself.
Whether the consequence is true or not, they know what they must do. The parts must become whole again. They must seek out and kill their other selves to become whole.
With 5th edition clone it's only possible to have one, though you can plot device around it; the reason there's a bunch of Manshoons kicking around is because he was using AD&D Clone, which was less limited than the 5e version.
With 5th edition clone it's only possible to have one, though you can plot device around it; the reason there's a bunch of Manshoons kicking around is because he was using AD&D Clone, which was less limited than the 5e version.
there is no limit to dnd 5e clone, you can create as many as you like
In a logistical sense? However many you can make with available resources and downtime. If you hit level 15 and have a lot of money to burn as a wizard, you should be developing your own personal stronghold/dungeon with traps and the like for you and the party to live at. Try to cycle through everyone and give them all at least one clone, you can even charge the other players for the service and material costs. It's worth remembering though that there is an opportunity cost. You could be spending that money on other material components, or on buying and scribing from spellbooks/scrolls to get a wider range of options. Magic items, hirelings, and so on also can build up costs. I as a player like to spend a lot of money if I actually have good mechanical ways to spend it, and wizards are one of the only classes with much of that in 5e. Let the other players save up their gold accounts since most of them can only spend it on magic items, so use them as a sort of bank you can borrow from if you need a sudden influx for a specific magic item that pops up for sale.
With 5th edition clone it's only possible to have one, though you can plot device around it; the reason there's a bunch of Manshoons kicking around is because he was using AD&D Clone, which was less limited than the 5e version.
there is no limit to dnd 5e clone, you can create as many as you like
Hm. I was thinking of other spells. However, it's not clear that multiple clones will actually take effect, because nothing in the text of clone allows chaining -- the trigger is the death of the original creature, so (a) they'll all trigger (and most will fail because the creature's soul is not free; spell text doesn't say what happens in that case), and (b) if any future clones die, it's not clear they'll trigger a clone created from the original body.
AD&D clone did allow you to have multiple active clones of the same creature, though it was a bad idea unless you were already crazy because your clones will immediately try to murder each other.
There's actual lore for this with the character Manshoon.
He created many clones. Normally they work in order, however there was an event that caused it to go wrong and ended up splitting his soul to all clones causing all of them to awaken and develop their own personalities rather than being a complete transfer of the original Manshoon.
So this establishes:
1. You can have unlimited clones.
2. They work in order - on death your mind and soul goes to the oldest clone.
3. It is possible for this to go wrong and fracturing your soul to all clones who all wake up becoming their own unique versions of you while the "main" you basically just dies.
The DM, as always, is free to ignore all that and have it work however the feck they want. Check with DM.
--
A paranoid higher-level wizard may decide to keep 1 clone at a time in a Demiplane. With some backup necessity spells stored in glyphs of warding. They die, wake as the clone, use glyphs for comforts to next day, make new clone and hide out using Magnificent Mansion. They could also just send a Simulacrum out to the material plane to manage affairs in meantime. When clone matures, they can return to the Material Plane.
Strategy is works better if said wizard also had a Rod of Security.
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There's actual lore for this with the character Manshoon.
He created many clones. Normally they work in order, however there was an event that caused it to go wrong and ended up splitting his soul to all clones causing all of them to awaken and develop their own personalities rather than being a complete transfer of the original Manshoon.
So this establishes:
1. You can have unlimited clones.
2. They work in order - on death your mind and soul goes to the oldest clone.
3. It is possible for this to go wrong and fracturing your soul to all clones who all wake up becoming their own unique versions of you while the "main" you basically just dies.
The DM, as always, is free to ignore all that and have it work however the feck they want. Check with DM.
--
A paranoid higher-level wizard may decide to keep 1 clone at a time in a Demiplane. With some backup necessity spells stored in glyphs of warding. They die, wake as the clone, use glyphs for comforts to next day, make new clone and hide out using Magnificent Mansion. They could also just send a Simulacrum out to the material plane to manage affairs in meantime. When clone matures, they can return to the Material Plane.
Strategy is works better if said wizard also had a Rod of Security.
The effects of different spells add together while the durations of those spells overlap. The effects of the same spell cast multiple times don't combine, however. Instead, the most potent effect--such as the highest bonus--from those castings applies while their durations overlap, or the most recent effect applies if the castings are equally potent and their durations overlap.
For example, if two clerics cast bless on the same target, that character gains the spell's benefit only once; he or she doesn't get to roll two bonus dice.
Manshoon is a character from 2e where clone worked a lot differently, so its a pretty limited precedent, but there's pretty severe diminishing returns because once the clone strategy is a known issue people will find a way to eliminate the character without killing, such as flesh to stone or imprisonment.
Manshoon is a character from 2e where clone worked a lot differently, so its a pretty limited precedent, but there's pretty severe diminishing returns because once the clone strategy is a known issue people will find a way to eliminate the character without killing, such as flesh to stone or imprisonment.
I kind of like the idea of an NPC enemy using clone strategy and the players having to work out how they'd disable the NPC without killing them.
I think the clone has the same physical age as the original. So the restriction is still on the age of the original body. So if the natural death (death by old age) is in 2 years,. So the clone body will die in 2 years too, by natural cause.
I mean, the most obvious restriction on the spell is a 1000 gp diamond; people take for granted that one can basically just transmute gold coins into components on the spot, but it’s not hard to say there’s a pretty limited quantity of diamonds of that quality, particularly given how many spells consume them.
I think the clone has the same physical age as the original. So the restriction is still on the age of the original body. So if the natural death (death by old age) is in 2 years,. So the clone body will die in 2 years too, by natural cause.
At least you won't die in battle.
Clone can be any age you want. A person can live to 80, make a clone of themselves set for age 20, live another 10 years to die at 90 and that cloned body will still be 20 years old when they enter it. It's a near immortal spell. I say near immortal because it takes a long time to make a clone and you are vulnerable while it is gestating.
I think the clone has the same physical age as the original. So the restriction is still on the age of the original body. So if the natural death (death by old age) is in 2 years,. So the clone body will die in 2 years too, by natural cause.
At least you won't die in battle.
I think you missed the part of the spell that says "you can also choose to have the clone be a younger version of the same creature".
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If I ever got to the point of making a clone in a campaign I would have my younger clone inherit all my goods. All i need is paperwork and one or two other people as witnesses.
As my older self I could hire an artist to paint my picture but tell him to slightly change it. Eye color, nose shape, ear size, hair color. That way when people come over I have pictures of my 'father' hanging on the wall. Since he looks different I obviously can not be a clone. Obviously date but never marry. When the time is right I would even go as far as being seen with a pregnant young woman for a few weeks, who I later pay off and ship away to a far land. Make sure the rumors are plausible and fit.
You could even keep two or more homes and two or more identities. Just teleport from one to the other when needed. After i die i could come in and buy up my now empty property.
The problem I find with the Clone spell is the fact that now I can have more than one standard lifetime I can not go above level 20. The hard limit of 5E. Conservatively I should be able to gain 10 levels at least in any class with each clone life. Why have a forever life time with no chance of gaining in power?
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Hello Wizard, so you're at least level 15. You know the Clone and Teleport spells and you've procured a secure place to hide your clone pots.
How many clones do you make? I mean I understand there's cost and a space issue and of course it isn't limited to you.
Your companions could all have clones too. It's nice to know that the ranger's animal companion won't ever truly die. Each clone take 120 days to mature (which is 4 months) so do you make a new one each month or maybe a new one each day? Just for yourself or do you include your companions?
It's a nice tactic for Immortality. But I guess if you abuse it the DM is going to have some enemy raid your hideout and unalive your clones.
Edit: I guess this is why there are so many dungeons. Just wizards trying to protect their stuff and live forever.
Well, each person can usefully only have one Clone waiting for them.
It would be up to the DM to decide what happens when you die if there are 3 Clones waiting - does your spirit get split between the three, so each only gets a third of your personality/abilities?
As a DM trying to stop your characters from becoming immortal, you could introduce a mechanic where if a PC has more than one clone then their soul does not only go into one clone, but splits leaving a portion of the soul in each clone. This could be narratively fun but also allow the player to know that this gameplay is a little boring because it defeats the threat of any encounter, as you can essentially respawn whenever you want.
Otherwise, if the DM is ok with multiple clones, it would really be up to their discretion on how many clones you can have at any given moment.
Well we saw what happened in Harry Potter when Voldemort split his soul.
Would make for an interesting backstory. A powerful wizard creates 15 clones, young and strong. When he dies his soul is split between them. His power is split also (each clone is level 1).
Each clone wakes up in a different part of the world. Young and strong, but confused. Their memories are fractured, scattered amongst them.
A voice in their head informs them that they are unnatural. It explains what happened and tells them that they must correct their mistake or risk the collapse of reality itself.
Whether the consequence is true or not, they know what they must do. The parts must become whole again. They must seek out and kill their other selves to become whole.
Instinct guides them towards each other.
With 5th edition clone it's only possible to have one, though you can plot device around it; the reason there's a bunch of Manshoons kicking around is because he was using AD&D Clone, which was less limited than the 5e version.
there is no limit to dnd 5e clone, you can create as many as you like
In a logistical sense? However many you can make with available resources and downtime. If you hit level 15 and have a lot of money to burn as a wizard, you should be developing your own personal stronghold/dungeon with traps and the like for you and the party to live at. Try to cycle through everyone and give them all at least one clone, you can even charge the other players for the service and material costs. It's worth remembering though that there is an opportunity cost. You could be spending that money on other material components, or on buying and scribing from spellbooks/scrolls to get a wider range of options. Magic items, hirelings, and so on also can build up costs. I as a player like to spend a lot of money if I actually have good mechanical ways to spend it, and wizards are one of the only classes with much of that in 5e. Let the other players save up their gold accounts since most of them can only spend it on magic items, so use them as a sort of bank you can borrow from if you need a sudden influx for a specific magic item that pops up for sale.
Hm. I was thinking of other spells. However, it's not clear that multiple clones will actually take effect, because nothing in the text of clone allows chaining -- the trigger is the death of the original creature, so (a) they'll all trigger (and most will fail because the creature's soul is not free; spell text doesn't say what happens in that case), and (b) if any future clones die, it's not clear they'll trigger a clone created from the original body.
AD&D clone did allow you to have multiple active clones of the same creature, though it was a bad idea unless you were already crazy because your clones will immediately try to murder each other.
Could another person use the spell Magic Jar to possess and use a mature clone that is not being used by the original?
This could be a way to take over the kingdom while the leader is away.
Well if it is a humanoid I would say you can use magic jar on a clone.
Well if it is a humanoid I would say you can use magic jar on a clone.
There's actual lore for this with the character Manshoon.
He created many clones. Normally they work in order, however there was an event that caused it to go wrong and ended up splitting his soul to all clones causing all of them to awaken and develop their own personalities rather than being a complete transfer of the original Manshoon.
So this establishes:
1. You can have unlimited clones.
2. They work in order - on death your mind and soul goes to the oldest clone.
3. It is possible for this to go wrong and fracturing your soul to all clones who all wake up becoming their own unique versions of you while the "main" you basically just dies.
The DM, as always, is free to ignore all that and have it work however the feck they want. Check with DM.
--
A paranoid higher-level wizard may decide to keep 1 clone at a time in a Demiplane. With some backup necessity spells stored in glyphs of warding. They die, wake as the clone, use glyphs for comforts to next day, make new clone and hide out using Magnificent Mansion. They could also just send a Simulacrum out to the material plane to manage affairs in meantime. When clone matures, they can return to the Material Plane.
Strategy is works better if said wizard also had a Rod of Security.
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That also seems to align with the Combining Magical Effects rules :)
More Interesting Lock Picking Rules
Manshoon is a character from 2e where clone worked a lot differently, so its a pretty limited precedent, but there's pretty severe diminishing returns because once the clone strategy is a known issue people will find a way to eliminate the character without killing, such as flesh to stone or imprisonment.
I kind of like the idea of an NPC enemy using clone strategy and the players having to work out how they'd disable the NPC without killing them.
I think the clone has the same physical age as the original. So the restriction is still on the age of the original body. So if the natural death (death by old age) is in 2 years,. So the clone body will die in 2 years too, by natural cause.
At least you won't die in battle.
I mean, the most obvious restriction on the spell is a 1000 gp diamond; people take for granted that one can basically just transmute gold coins into components on the spot, but it’s not hard to say there’s a pretty limited quantity of diamonds of that quality, particularly given how many spells consume them.
Clone can be any age you want. A person can live to 80, make a clone of themselves set for age 20, live another 10 years to die at 90 and that cloned body will still be 20 years old when they enter it. It's a near immortal spell. I say near immortal because it takes a long time to make a clone and you are vulnerable while it is gestating.
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I think you missed the part of the spell that says "you can also choose to have the clone be a younger version of the same creature".
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If I ever got to the point of making a clone in a campaign I would have my younger clone inherit all my goods. All i need is paperwork and one or two other people as witnesses.
As my older self I could hire an artist to paint my picture but tell him to slightly change it. Eye color, nose shape, ear size, hair color. That way when people come over I have pictures of my 'father' hanging on the wall. Since he looks different I obviously can not be a clone. Obviously date but never marry. When the time is right I would even go as far as being seen with a pregnant young woman for a few weeks, who I later pay off and ship away to a far land. Make sure the rumors are plausible and fit.
You could even keep two or more homes and two or more identities. Just teleport from one to the other when needed.
After i die i could come in and buy up my now empty property.
The problem I find with the Clone spell is the fact that now I can have more than one standard lifetime I can not go above level 20. The hard limit of 5E. Conservatively I should be able to gain 10 levels at least in any class with each clone life. Why have a forever life time with no chance of gaining in power?