I'm building a Witch, VHuman Poisoner feat, 2Swamp Druid/2Conjuration Wizard, is this a good Cantrip for her? It seems good for baiting when combined with shape shifting, even with the wild shape she could just scurry away.
As discussed at length in this thread, there are very few good uses for Friends unless you deliberately misread the spell or the meaning of "hostile". You can't cast it on a creature that has a worse attitude toward you than "indifferent", it only confers advantage on Charisma checks (and your character is either going Int or Wis), and when the spell ends the creature is hostile to you (but this does not mean they mindlessly attack you as though berserk). 'Baiting' a creature could be more easily accomplished through roleplay than with this poor excuse for a spell.
You can cast it on hostile targets, you just don't get advantage on Charisma checks against hostile targets.
But still, I struggle to imagine a practical situation in which the only good way to guarantee hostility is this mind-control spell.
Well you cast it on yourself (range: self) and it gives advantage on cha checks against one creature you choose that isn’t hostile towards you. Does it actually do anything to hostile creatures at all?
For the duration, you have advantage on all Charisma checks directed at one creature of your choice that isn’t hostile toward you. When the spell ends, the creature realizes that you used magic to influence its mood and becomes hostile toward you. A creature prone to violence might attack you. Another creature might seek retribution in other ways (at the DM’s discretion), depending on the nature of your interaction with it.
Maybe I'm missing something, but the Friends cantrip seems to be by far the worst in the game. So bad in fact that I'm having difficulty coming up a with a situation where using it is better than not using it. It gives advantage on charisma checks which is good, but lasts at most 1 minute and turns someone who was not hostile to you hostile. 1 minute isn't enough time to get out of town so the best you can really do is maybe get a good deal from a merchant who will never sell to you again and will try to get you arrested at the next opportunity. Is there a good reason to use this spell that I'm missing?
With all of that said, I do have a character I'm building who is not too bright and wants everyone to like him. I kind of want to have him use this at every opportunity and see what happens, but I'm afraid that would annoy my group. Is that something that would be funny and fun, or just get other people mad at me?
disguise self into archenemy, cast friends on local leader, kill local leader while spell is ending, ruler seeks vengeance in dying words as they are now hostile
But you could just use Disguise Self and commit crimes as the person you wanted to frame without bothering with Friends.
If you have the ruler under the effects of friends, it will be easier to persuade the ruler not to call the guards on you when you bust out the murder weapon
I feel like I left this thread more confused than when I came in. Are there any official explanations for how the spell is intended to work? In particular, the creature knowledge of you using magic i.e. does it "just know" and register this when it perceives you next, or can this be circumvented/exploited with a disguise? Also, the hostility portion: is it a magic effect that makes them hostile to you, or is it just implied dislike for being manipulated e.g. if a PC used it on a friendly NPC to prank them with something that otherwise wouldn't make them hostile, does the magic compel them to be? Obvs DM rulings trump all, but I'd like to at least know the designintention.
Also, as for the suggestions on Friends being used to instigate a fight etc, according to the DMG, hostile just means they really don't like you, not that they (necessarily) want to kill/attack you.
A hostile creature opposes the adventurers and their goals but doesn’t necessarily attack them on sight. For example, a condescending noble might wish to see a group of upstart adventurers fail so as to keep them from becoming rivals for the king’s attention, thwarting them with slander and scheming rather than direct threats and violence. The adventurers need to succeed on one or more challenging Charisma checks to convince a hostile creature to do anything on their behalf. That said, a hostile creature might be so ill-disposed toward the party that no Charisma check can improve its attitude, in which case any attempt to sway it through diplomacy fails automatically.
In short, for a spell with components but no obvious effects (like this one), it's perceptible - thus DM discretion whether the NPC notices the casting - perhaps a Perception vs Sleight of Hand rolloff to pass the casting off as "powdering your nose". Then it's an action/reaction Arcana check against a DC of 10+ spell level (so 10 here) to recognise the spell.
That said, given the drawbacks of the spell and that all it does is grant Cha advantage for one minute, I'd probably let it pass rather than haggle over it.
Look for this spell to get fixed with the updated edition in 2024...
The number of situations in which you can make your check and get all the way out of Dodge without danger of pursuit/reprisal is almost none. Go through your day (even without having to lie to cops, do combat against demonic cultists, etc.) and think about when you would use friends RAW. Use it at the drive-thru to get free fries? They call the cops a minute later. Use it to talk your way out of a ticket? The cop wises up 30 seconds later and arrests your ass. Seriously, I need to know the situations in which people are pulling this off (without the DM just handwaving and saying, "He's really mad now, but he just stands there fuming without doing anything about it").
The problem is that it's only a cantrip in the first place. It would much better if there were a different spell (maybe greater friends or something) that was a leveled spell without the hostility penalty, which would avoid the OP hand-wringing: level 1-3 with a duration of 1 check-1 minute. Then it would be acually useful without danger of abuse.
A few of the things you said can't be done because friends doesn't work on anyone hostile towards you. Does it work on an enemy hostile towards a party member? Or does that count as an enemy being hostile towards all party members.
Generally, anything that's hostile to one member of the party is considered hostile to all members of the party unless there are unusual circumstances.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
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Well you cast it on yourself (range: self) and it gives advantage on cha checks against one creature you choose that isn’t hostile towards you. Does it actually do anything to hostile creatures at all?
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
disguise self into archenemy, cast friends on local leader, kill local leader while spell is ending, ruler seeks vengeance in dying words as they are now hostile
Supreme Cat-lover Of The First Grade
I AM A CAT PERSON. /\_____/\
She/her pronouns please. (=^.^=)
But you could just use Disguise Self and commit crimes as the person you wanted to frame without bothering with Friends.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
If you have the ruler under the effects of friends, it will be easier to persuade the ruler not to call the guards on you when you bust out the murder weapon
Supreme Cat-lover Of The First Grade
I AM A CAT PERSON. /\_____/\
She/her pronouns please. (=^.^=)
Just sounds like added, unnecessary complexity.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I feel like I left this thread more confused than when I came in. Are there any official explanations for how the spell is intended to work? In particular, the creature knowledge of you using magic i.e. does it "just know" and register this when it perceives you next, or can this be circumvented/exploited with a disguise? Also, the hostility portion: is it a magic effect that makes them hostile to you, or is it just implied dislike for being manipulated e.g. if a PC used it on a friendly NPC to prank them with something that otherwise wouldn't make them hostile, does the magic compel them to be? Obvs DM rulings trump all, but I'd like to at least know the design intention.
Also, as for the suggestions on Friends being used to instigate a fight etc, according to the DMG, hostile just means they really don't like you, not that they (necessarily) want to kill/attack you.
Xanathar's has a section of general rules concerning noticing a spell being cast and identifying what spell it is:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/xgte/dungeon-masters-tools#Spellcasting
In short, for a spell with components but no obvious effects (like this one), it's perceptible - thus DM discretion whether the NPC notices the casting - perhaps a Perception vs Sleight of Hand rolloff to pass the casting off as "powdering your nose". Then it's an action/reaction Arcana check against a DC of 10+ spell level (so 10 here) to recognise the spell.
That said, given the drawbacks of the spell and that all it does is grant Cha advantage for one minute, I'd probably let it pass rather than haggle over it.
Look for this spell to get fixed with the updated edition in 2024...
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
The Friends spell is total garbage.
The number of situations in which you can make your check and get all the way out of Dodge without danger of pursuit/reprisal is almost none. Go through your day (even without having to lie to cops, do combat against demonic cultists, etc.) and think about when you would use friends RAW. Use it at the drive-thru to get free fries? They call the cops a minute later. Use it to talk your way out of a ticket? The cop wises up 30 seconds later and arrests your ass. Seriously, I need to know the situations in which people are pulling this off (without the DM just handwaving and saying, "He's really mad now, but he just stands there fuming without doing anything about it").
The problem is that it's only a cantrip in the first place. It would much better if there were a different spell (maybe greater friends or something) that was a leveled spell without the hostility penalty, which would avoid the OP hand-wringing: level 1-3 with a duration of 1 check-1 minute. Then it would be acually useful without danger of abuse.
Friends is a contender for worst spell in 5E.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
A few of the things you said can't be done because friends doesn't work on anyone hostile towards you. Does it work on an enemy hostile towards a party member? Or does that count as an enemy being hostile towards all party members.
Generally, anything that's hostile to one member of the party is considered hostile to all members of the party unless there are unusual circumstances.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.