This thread has made me actually regret not having friends...not because I think it's any good, but because I am somewhat petty. My DM has recently moved my character's mother into the game as an NPC. She's a fairly powerful wizard, and my relationship with her is not so hot. This thread makes me want to use Disguise Self on myself to resemble /her/, then cast friends on merchants to convince them to give me discounts and deals, so when it wears off, they think that my character's mother magicked them into getting ripped off.
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This thread has made me actually regret not having friends...not because I think it's any good, but because I am somewhat petty. My DM has recently moved my character's mother into the game as an NPC. She's a fairly powerful wizard, and my relationship with her is not so hot. This thread makes me want to use Disguise Self on myself to resemble /her/, then cast friends on merchants to convince them to give me discounts and deals, so when it wears off, they think that my character's mother magicked them into getting ripped off.
Brilliant. I had a girlfriend in high school who’s mom I would have loved to do that to.
Since I saw a discussion about a ring of spell storing earlier, minor illusion or actually place a bag over your head, cast friends on a spell caster and get a spell you want/need for later, run with ring, lose bag, Rinse and Repeat :)
be really good to give to a non spell casters with 5 level 1 cure wounds in case people are out of spell slots
Whilst I can see how the spell can be fun when combined with disguise self or the Warlock invocation, I can't get past the fact that this is only a 1 minute duration spell. So I don't see how you can walk down a street, go into a shop, find the item you need, queue up to pay and then haggle on the price before bagging your item, leaving the store and walking off down the street before the spell runs out. Even before the chaos that is Covid 19 and social distancing in shops, that wouldn't have been possible in most of the shops in the precinct by me.
Whilst I can see how the spell can be fun when combined with disguise self or the Warlock invocation, I can't get past the fact that this is only a 1 minute duration spell. So I don't see how you can walk down a street, go into a shop, find the item you need, queue up to pay and then haggle on the price before bagging your item, leaving the store and walking off down the street before the spell runs out. Even before the chaos that is Covid 19 and social distancing in shops, that wouldn't have been possible in most of the shops in the precinct by me.
I agree, I think many people underestimate how fast a 1 minute conversation is over. Sure, in combat, that is 10 rounds. However, in a real environment 1 minute is over fast. Very fast.
I mean, you don't have to cast it until you're about to do the haggling, but yes, that's a quick exchange to be sure. I tend to grant a little leeway with these spells - not like I'm going to start a timer when they start talking - as long as they don't abuse the privilege. Usually, the spell's good for one charisma check with advantage, and it has to be fairly straightforward - no brokering a peace between kingdoms, but you can have a quick dicker over the price of a sword, or convince a guard to let the team into the city without travel paperwork. It's of limited use, but it can be critical, and again, the fact that you cast it on yourself instead of your target is super useful.
I mean, you don't have to cast it until you're about to do the haggling, but yes, that's a quick exchange to be sure. I tend to grant a little leeway with these spells - not like I'm going to start a timer when they start talking - as long as they don't abuse the privilege. Usually, the spell's good for one charisma check with advantage, and it has to be fairly straightforward - no brokering a peace between kingdoms, but you can have a quick dicker over the price of a sword, or convince a guard to let the team into the city without travel paperwork. It's of limited use, but it can be critical, and again, the fact that you cast it on yourself instead of your target is super useful.
That wouldn't fly in my games. The spell requires somantic and material components so when you start hopping up and down on one fot and waving your arms around while holding some funny smelling herbs - most people in the DND universe would know something was up. They might not know exactly what you did but they would know you were doing something. You would have to do it out of sight to avoid rousing suspicion. I agree it is certainly useful, especially when paired with alter / disguise self etc, but it isn't as good as a lot of people seem to think.
I interpret the the somatic component being the act of applying the make up (mentioned as the material component). I see this spell as already being super subtle. I would probably require my players succeed on a deception or performance check, with a low DC to be able to pull it off without anyone detecting the spell.
I interpret the the somatic component being the act of applying the make up (mentioned as the material component). I see this spell as already being super subtle. I would probably require my players succeed on a deception or performance check, with a low DC to be able to pull it off without anyone detecting the spell.
The somatic component is a series of gestures specific for spellcasting and is separate from description text (applying makeup).
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Chapter 10 has only this to say: (somatic components include "gesticulation" or "gesture" of "at least one hand", implying they're always hand-stuff)
Somatic (S)
Spellcasting gestures might include a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures.
Xanathar's has this to say: (basically, somatic components are not mechanically more noticeable than verbal or material components)
Perceiving a Caster at Work
Many spells create obvious effects: explosions of fire, walls of ice, teleportation, and the like. Other spells, such as charm person, display no visible, audible, or otherwise perceptible sign of their effects, and could easily go unnoticed by someone unaffected by them. As noted in the Player’s Handbook, you normally don’t know that a spell has been cast unless the spell produces a noticeable effect.
But what about the act of casting a spell? Is it possible for someone to perceive that a spell is being cast in their presence? To be perceptible, the casting of a spell must involve a verbal, somatic, or material component. The form of a material component doesn’t matter for the purposes of perception, whether it’s an object specified in the spell’s description, a component pouch, or a spellcasting focus.
If the need for a spell’s components has been removed by a special ability, such as the sorcerer’s Subtle Spell feature or the Innate Spellcasting trait possessed by many creatures, the casting of the spell is imperceptible. If an imperceptible casting produces a perceptible effect, it’s normally impossible to determine who cast the spell in the absence of other evidence.
I don't know that either of those answers the question: "are the movements specified in a spell description the same Somatic Components called out in its header?" I doubt there's a unifying design philosophy on that.
Use advantage on charisma checks for nice Persuasion rolls for haggling and discounts.
Leave with items.
Drop disguise self and watch as the merchant gets mad at somebody who doesn't exist.
--
Disguise Self to imitate somebody you dislike.
Use Friends on their closest allies, family and friends.
Leave and drop disguise and watch as that person's life crumbles to nothing with everyone hating them and them never knowing why.
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Use Friends for the free advantages and then Modify Memory to make them forget.
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Level 14 wizard of the school of enchantment. Basically all the benefits of Friends and without them turning hostile.
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Use friends on an enemy to calm them down and get a truce with advantage on persuasion. Your party basically gets 1 minute to prepare and reposition to continue the combat from a more favourable position.
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Use friends and persuasion to convince somebody to not run away or put them at ease before your party ambushes and restrains them.
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Use friends for the advantage to intimidation and while they are afraid of you, you can interrogate briefly or cast a Fear spell - you could discuss with DM that the normal intimidation grants disadvantage on the saving throw. Even when they become hostile they're too frightened to do much about it.
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Use Friends to lure enemies into traps.
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If a battle is becoming difficult because the enemy is too strong, use Friends to try and turn that hostile into a non-hostile. You get to go past or run away without risk and get a 1-minute headstart before it wears off and they chase you.
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If an ally has become hostile and upset with you so much they're not letting you tell your side of things then the spell can be used to more easily have your say and convince them you're using the spell because you need them to listen to you. They'll go back to being hostile and upset after it wears off but they will also still remember what you said and after a while that may sink in and you can make amends - i.e. a great way to smooth things over, just not right away.
-------
I'm sure there are more.
All cantrips have their use and purpose but some are more situational than others or need to be combined with other effects to be used to full potential.
I am now taking Friends and Disguise Self, via Mask of Many Faces, now because of your brilliant list. Thank you!
Friends and Disguise Self only have synergy if your DM houserules they do. RAW, Friends applies the same magical omniscience to the target that Charm Person and Charm Monster do - the spell itself explains to the target who you are. In fact, you can, while invisible (from, say, Ranger invisibility, or someone casting greater invisibility on you, or whatever), cast Friends on someone (no verbal component, so they don't observe the cast in any way), then immediately drop concentration. The spell tells the target that "you used magic to influence its mood", and then also magically compels it to become hostile to you, even though without the spell, it has no credible reason to believe you exist. How much detail the target gets on who you are is ambiguous, but said detail is magically omniscient. It's just like how Sequester can sense anything within 1 mile of it and there's generally no way at all to stop it.
As a result, the single most powerful use of Friends is the guaranteed, no-save hostility. You can force any creature to become hostile to you, no matter how much it would rather not. That's incredible. And the spell guarantees no false positives - you can't accidentally make the target hostile towards someone else instead.
Maybe I'm missing something, but the Friends cantrip seems to be by far the worst in the game. So bad in fact that I'm having difficulty coming up a with a situation where using it is better than not using it. It gives advantage on charisma checks which is good, but lasts at most 1 minute and turns someone who was not hostile to you hostile. 1 minute isn't enough time to get out of town so the best you can really do is maybe get a good deal from a merchant who will never sell to you again and will try to get you arrested at the next opportunity. Is there a good reason to use this spell that I'm missing?
With all of that said, I do have a character I'm building who is not too bright and wants everyone to like him. I kind of want to have him use this at every opportunity and see what happens, but I'm afraid that would annoy my group. Is that something that would be funny and fun, or just get other people mad at me?
ohhhhh. my second favorite cantrip. use it for intimidation checks. and interrogations. and on people you want to kill anyways to get a few prep rounds.
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quote from Romantically Apocalyptic byVitaly S Alexius
Use friends on any person you want to get arrested.
Example; go up to a person in public area where there’s guards in view. Cast friends. Talk to them for a minute. Friends end. They become hostile and possibly attack you. Let them strike you first. Feign innocence and call the guards.
Depends on how the DM rolls with it, they could be arrested for assault/attempted murder.
When the spell ends, it just makes the target hostile to you. It doesn't force them to automatically start attacking you. They could easily cry out to the guards that you'd used magic on them and have you arrested.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
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I'm building a Witch, VHuman Poisoner feat, 2Swamp Druid/2Conjuration Wizard, is this a good Cantrip for her? It seems good for baiting when combined with shape shifting, even with the wild shape she could just scurry away.
I'm building a Witch, VHuman Poisoner feat, 2Swamp Druid/2Conjuration Wizard, is this a good Cantrip for her? It seems good for baiting when combined with shape shifting, even with the wild shape she could just scurry away.
As discussed at length in this thread, there are very few good uses for Friends unless you deliberately misread the spell or the meaning of "hostile". You can't cast it on a creature that has a worse attitude toward you than "indifferent", it only confers advantage on Charisma checks (and your character is either going Int or Wis), and when the spell ends the creature is hostile to you (but this does not mean they mindlessly attack you as though berserk). 'Baiting' a creature could be more easily accomplished through roleplay than with this poor excuse for a spell.
I'm building a Witch, VHuman Poisoner feat, 2Swamp Druid/2Conjuration Wizard, is this a good Cantrip for her? It seems good for baiting when combined with shape shifting, even with the wild shape she could just scurry away.
As discussed at length in this thread, there are very few good uses for Friends unless you deliberately misread the spell or the meaning of "hostile". You can't cast it on a creature that has a worse attitude toward you than "indifferent", it only confers advantage on Charisma checks (and your character is either going Int or Wis), and when the spell ends the creature is hostile to you (but this does not mean they mindlessly attack you as though berserk). 'Baiting' a creature could be more easily accomplished through roleplay than with this poor excuse for a spell.
You can cast it on hostile targets, you just don't get advantage on Charisma checks against hostile targets.
But still, I struggle to imagine a practical situation in which the only good way to guarantee hostility is this mind-control spell.
This thread has made me actually regret not having friends...not because I think it's any good, but because I am somewhat petty. My DM has recently moved my character's mother into the game as an NPC. She's a fairly powerful wizard, and my relationship with her is not so hot. This thread makes me want to use Disguise Self on myself to resemble /her/, then cast friends on merchants to convince them to give me discounts and deals, so when it wears off, they think that my character's mother magicked them into getting ripped off.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Brilliant. I had a girlfriend in high school who’s mom I would have loved to do that to.
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Since I saw a discussion about a ring of spell storing earlier, minor illusion or actually place a bag over your head, cast friends on a spell caster and get a spell you want/need for later, run with ring, lose bag, Rinse and Repeat :)
be really good to give to a non spell casters with 5 level 1 cure wounds in case people are out of spell slots
Whilst I can see how the spell can be fun when combined with disguise self or the Warlock invocation, I can't get past the fact that this is only a 1 minute duration spell. So I don't see how you can walk down a street, go into a shop, find the item you need, queue up to pay and then haggle on the price before bagging your item, leaving the store and walking off down the street before the spell runs out. Even before the chaos that is Covid 19 and social distancing in shops, that wouldn't have been possible in most of the shops in the precinct by me.
I agree, I think many people underestimate how fast a 1 minute conversation is over. Sure, in combat, that is 10 rounds. However, in a real environment 1 minute is over fast. Very fast.
I mean, you don't have to cast it until you're about to do the haggling, but yes, that's a quick exchange to be sure. I tend to grant a little leeway with these spells - not like I'm going to start a timer when they start talking - as long as they don't abuse the privilege. Usually, the spell's good for one charisma check with advantage, and it has to be fairly straightforward - no brokering a peace between kingdoms, but you can have a quick dicker over the price of a sword, or convince a guard to let the team into the city without travel paperwork. It's of limited use, but it can be critical, and again, the fact that you cast it on yourself instead of your target is super useful.
That wouldn't fly in my games. The spell requires somantic and material components so when you start hopping up and down on one fot and waving your arms around while holding some funny smelling herbs - most people in the DND universe would know something was up. They might not know exactly what you did but they would know you were doing something. You would have to do it out of sight to avoid rousing suspicion. I agree it is certainly useful, especially when paired with alter / disguise self etc, but it isn't as good as a lot of people seem to think.
I interpret the the somatic component being the act of applying the make up (mentioned as the material component). I see this spell as already being super subtle. I would probably require my players succeed on a deception or performance check, with a low DC to be able to pull it off without anyone detecting the spell.
The somatic component is a series of gestures specific for spellcasting and is separate from description text (applying makeup).
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Source?
Chapter 10 has only this to say: (somatic components include "gesticulation" or "gesture" of "at least one hand", implying they're always hand-stuff)
Xanathar's has this to say: (basically, somatic components are not mechanically more noticeable than verbal or material components)
I don't know that either of those answers the question: "are the movements specified in a spell description the same Somatic Components called out in its header?" I doubt there's a unifying design philosophy on that.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
The spell should be renamed "Frenemies" - "I'm nice to you to your face but as soon as you turn your back..."
I am now taking Friends and Disguise Self, via Mask of Many Faces, now because of your brilliant list. Thank you!
Friends and Disguise Self only have synergy if your DM houserules they do. RAW, Friends applies the same magical omniscience to the target that Charm Person and Charm Monster do - the spell itself explains to the target who you are. In fact, you can, while invisible (from, say, Ranger invisibility, or someone casting greater invisibility on you, or whatever), cast Friends on someone (no verbal component, so they don't observe the cast in any way), then immediately drop concentration. The spell tells the target that "you used magic to influence its mood", and then also magically compels it to become hostile to you, even though without the spell, it has no credible reason to believe you exist. How much detail the target gets on who you are is ambiguous, but said detail is magically omniscient. It's just like how Sequester can sense anything within 1 mile of it and there's generally no way at all to stop it.
As a result, the single most powerful use of Friends is the guaranteed, no-save hostility. You can force any creature to become hostile to you, no matter how much it would rather not. That's incredible. And the spell guarantees no false positives - you can't accidentally make the target hostile towards someone else instead.
ohhhhh. my second favorite cantrip. use it for intimidation checks. and interrogations. and on people you want to kill anyways to get a few prep rounds.
This Mug immediately shared with me a transcendental tale of an Infinite Mug that anchors the Universe and keeps it from folding in on itself. I filed this report under "illogical nonsense" and asked why its sign is in Times New Roman font, when it is basic knowledge that Arial Black is a far superior font. I wondered: How did this mug even get past the assembly line with its theistic beliefs and poor font choices?
quote from Romantically Apocalyptic by Vitaly S Alexius
Use friends on any person you want to get arrested.
Example; go up to a person in public area where there’s guards in view. Cast friends. Talk to them for a minute. Friends end. They become hostile and possibly attack you. Let them strike you first. Feign innocence and call the guards.
Depends on how the DM rolls with it, they could be arrested for assault/attempted murder.
When the spell ends, it just makes the target hostile to you. It doesn't force them to automatically start attacking you. They could easily cry out to the guards that you'd used magic on them and have you arrested.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I'm building a Witch, VHuman Poisoner feat, 2Swamp Druid/2Conjuration Wizard, is this a good Cantrip for her? It seems good for baiting when combined with shape shifting, even with the wild shape she could just scurry away.
Almost any other cantrip would be better.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
As discussed at length in this thread, there are very few good uses for Friends unless you deliberately misread the spell or the meaning of "hostile". You can't cast it on a creature that has a worse attitude toward you than "indifferent", it only confers advantage on Charisma checks (and your character is either going Int or Wis), and when the spell ends the creature is hostile to you (but this does not mean they mindlessly attack you as though berserk). 'Baiting' a creature could be more easily accomplished through roleplay than with this poor excuse for a spell.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
You can cast it on hostile targets, you just don't get advantage on Charisma checks against hostile targets.
But still, I struggle to imagine a practical situation in which the only good way to guarantee hostility is this mind-control spell.