Having a monster or NPC react plausibly to what the players have had their characters say and do is not “generosity,” it’s just “DMing.” It is in fact what DMs are supposed to do. Actually, not having monsters and NPCs react in ways that people in reality tend to react in various situations is far more unrealistic than having them react in those ways. People out in the real world attack and kill each other over traded or perceived insults every • single • day. It happens at least once every day in my city alone.
Insults and taunts can absolutely start combats. What they don't do is play a significant role once the combat has already started.
Who ever said anything about “play[ing] a significant role” during combat? Is the ogre deciding to smash “dat puny 'umie” or “dat uver puny ‘umie” typically all that “significant.” Not really, no. Either way, once initiative was rolled that ogre’s life expectancy suddenly dropped from however the heck long ogres are usually supposed to live, to somewhere between 6-18 seconds. That’s regardless of which “puny ‘umie” it tries to smash first.
Who ever said anything about “play[ing] a significant role” during combat? Is the ogre deciding to smash “dat puny 'umie” or “dat uver puny ‘umie” typically all that “significant.”
You did, and yes, it is. Sure, we know the ogre is fodder for the meat grinder, but you should be playing the ogre as trying to win. Unless, of course, the taunt occurred before combat... but you can't dodge before combat has started, because dodge is a combat action.
Who ever said anything about “play[ing] a significant role” during combat? Is the ogre deciding to smash “dat puny 'umie” or “dat uver puny ‘umie” typically all that “significant.”
You did, and yes, it is. Sure, we know the ogre is fodder for the meat grinder, but you should be playing the ogre as trying to win. Unless, of course, the taunt occurred before combat... but you can't dodge before combat has started, because dodge is a combat action.
I always play the ogre as trying to win. You’re splitting unnecessary hairs about when the ogre is insulted as if it matters at all. The ogre got insulted. The ogre feels insulted. The ogre tries to smash the puny gubbin what insulted it. That’s all the ogre knows. What possible thing in the world could make any difference to that ogre if the insult happened before or after it decided to start popping puny gubbins. A smashed gubbin is a smashed gubbin, and a smashed gun in can’t say mean things no more.
And please, do quote where I ever wrote anything whatsoever about such an insult playing a “significant role” in combat. Go ahead, I’ll get popcorn and wait. You might wanna pee first though, because you’re gonna be reading a while and ultimately not find anything, so if you need to go you should do it ahead of time.
And please, do quote where I ever wrote anything whatsoever about such an insult playing a “significant role” in combat.
You said it would affect the ogre's choice of targets. That's a significant role. You denied that it's significant, but I'm under no obligation to accept your denial.
And please, do quote where I ever wrote anything whatsoever about such an insult playing a “significant role” in combat.
You said it would affect the ogre's choice of targets. That's a significant role. You denied that it's significant, but I'm under no obligation to accept your denial.
Wrong. I wrote that it could affect the ogre’s choice of targets, if it would not prove obviously detrimental to the ogre.
I never once stated that it would (as in absolutely) affect anything whatsoever. I wrote that it was a potential possibility.
I specifically wrote that such a reaction should only take place if the circumstances were such that it wouldn’t adversely affect the hypothetical ogre I used as the example target of the insults. That caveat on the circumstances generally removes any such “significance” from the situation.
The only actually true part of your statement was that you’re under no obligation to accept what I’m saying.
Wrong. I wrote that it could affect the ogre’s choice of targets, if it would not prove obviously detrimental to the ogre.
Attacking the dodging harmless target instead of the one who just stabbed it in the back or the one who's about to hit it with a fireball is obviously detrimental to the ogre.
While words CAN instigate a violent reaction, they do not REQUIRE a reaction. <Blah blah words blah blah>
Who ever claimed that anything was “required?” Certainly not I.
If it's not required, it's not relevant. A player wanting to exploit dodge, needs to require people to attack him or be ignored. At the very least, there must be some form of penalty for not attacking. If you just GIVE the player who taunts free attacks, you devalue the features that other players spec into.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
At the very least, there must be some form of penalty for not attacking.
Why? What would the additional penalty look like? The player chose to take a perfectly legal action in combat why must you give them a penalty for doing so? Why punish the player for that?
Why must there be a penalty to taking the moral high ground? What if instead of insults the dodger is trying to negotiate? "I don't want to kill you, we can both walk away from this. If you ignore me and go after that little girl, I'm going to stick this sword in your back."
What if the person dodging is in front and the bandit will suffer an OA if he goes past him to attack the rest of the party?
I've done my share of verbal taunts after combat has started in real life. All it took was "Is that all you got?" and "Are you done yet?" to make the person come after me instead of somebody else. I don't have magic, I'm not a kender, I don't have class features or traits. I'm just me.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
Why? What would the additional penalty look like? The player chose to take a perfectly legal action in combat why must you give them a penalty for doing so? Why punish the player for that?
The additional penalty would be on the creature you're trying to get attack you, not the character trying to dodge, because if you dodge and everyone proceeds to ignore you, you might as well not be there at all.
At the very least, there must be some form of penalty for not attacking.
Why? What would the additional penalty look like? The player chose to take a perfectly legal action in combat why must you give them a penalty for doing so? Why punish the player for that?
Why must there be a penalty to taking the moral high ground? What if instead of insults the dodger is trying to negotiate? "I don't want to kill you, we can both walk away from this. If you ignore me and go after that little girl, I'm going to stick this sword in your back."
What if the person dodging is in front and the bandit will suffer an OA if he goes past him to attack the rest of the party?
I've done my share of verbal taunts after combat has started in real life. All it took was "Is that all you got?" and "Are you done yet?" to make the person come after me instead of somebody else. I don't have magic, I'm not a kender, I don't have class features or traits. I'm just me.
Currently, something like this.
Unwavering Mark
Starting at 3rd level, you can menace your foes, foiling their attacks and punishing them for harming others. When you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can mark the creature until the end of your next turn. This effect ends early if you are incapacitated or you die, or if someone else marks the creature.
While it is within 5 feet of you, a creature marked by you has disadvantage on any attack roll that doesn’t target you.
In addition, if a creature marked by you deals damage to anyone other than you, you can make a special melee weapon attack against the marked creature as a bonus action on your next turn. You have advantage on the attack roll, and if it hits, the attack’s weapon deals extra damage to the target equal to half your fighter level.
Regardless of the number of creatures you mark, you can make this special attack a number of times equal to your Strength modifier (minimum of once), and you regain all expended uses of it when you finish a long rest.
You can say that all you want, but the DM can attack anyone they want to. Why would he hit you if you're dodging and not a threat?
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Wrong. I wrote that it could affect the ogre’s choice of targets, if it would not prove obviously detrimental to the ogre.
Attacking the dodging harmless target instead of the one who just stabbed it in the back or the one who's about to hit it with a fireball is obviously detrimental to the ogre.
Let me repeat myself. Again. (God I hate having to say the same 💩 over and over again, so do me a favor and please at least try to pay attention this time.)
IF SOMEONE IS STABBING IT IN THE BACK, OR THREATENING IT WITH A FIREBALL, THEN IT WOULD CLEARLY NOT FALL FOR THE TAUNT IN THAT INSTANCE AS THAT WOULD FALL UNDER THE GENERAL CATEGORY OF “OBVIOUSLY DETRIMENTAL” TO IT.
Was it clear enough that go ‘round? Or do you need me to restate the exact same thing a 5th time…? 😒
Wrong. I wrote that it could affect the ogre’s choice of targets, if it would not prove obviously detrimental to the ogre.
Attacking the dodging harmless target instead of the one who just stabbed it in the back or the one who's about to hit it with a fireball is obviously detrimental to the ogre.
Let me repeat myself. Again. (God I hate having to say the same 💩 over and over again, so do me a favor and please at least try to pay attention this time.)
IF SOMEONE IS STABBING IT IN THE BACK, OR THREATENING IT WITH A FIREBALL, THEN IT WOULD CLEARLY NOT FALL FOR THE TAUNT IN THAT INSTANCE AS THAT WOULD FALL UNDER THE GENERAL CATEGORY OF “OBVIOUSLY DETRIMENTAL” TO IT.
Was it clear enough that go ‘round? Or do you need me to restate the exact same thing a 5th time…? 😒
And that's what makes it pointless. Taunting with no actual mechanical effect that makes the enemy compelled to attack you for some reason is no different than saying you're thrusting with your longsword vs making a backhand swing with it when you attack: pure fluff that makes no actual difference.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Was it clear enough that go ‘round? Or do you need me to restate the exact same thing a 5th time…? 😒
So your point is that taunts are effective as long as they're useless? I thought you were trying to make a point that's in some way relevant to this thread.
Wrong. I wrote that it could affect the ogre’s choice of targets, if it would not prove obviously detrimental to the ogre.
Attacking the dodging harmless target instead of the one who just stabbed it in the back or the one who's about to hit it with a fireball is obviously detrimental to the ogre.
Let me repeat myself. Again. (God I hate having to say the same 💩 over and over again, so do me a favor and please at least try to pay attention this time.)
IF SOMEONE IS STABBING IT IN THE BACK, OR THREATENING IT WITH A FIREBALL, THEN IT WOULD CLEARLY NOT FALL FOR THE TAUNT IN THAT INSTANCE AS THAT WOULD FALL UNDER THE GENERAL CATEGORY OF “OBVIOUSLY DETRIMENTAL” TO IT.
Was it clear enough that go ‘round? Or do you need me to restate the exact same thing a 5th time…? 😒
And that's what makes it pointless. Taunting with no actual mechanical effect that makes the enemy compelled to attack you for some reason is no different than saying you're thrusting with your longsword vs making a backhand swing with it when you attack: pure fluff that makes no actual difference.
^^ 100% this
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
While words CAN instigate a violent reaction, they do not REQUIRE a reaction. <Blah blah words blah blah>
Who ever claimed that anything was “required?” Certainly not I.
If it's not required, it's not relevant. A player wanting to exploit dodge, needs to require people to attack him or be ignored. At the very least, there must be some form of penalty for not attacking. If you just GIVE the player who taunts free attacks, you devalue the features that other players spec into.
🤦♂️
A character with a codified, mechanical feature, trait, or spell specially designed and intended to specifically either draw agro from another creature or impose a penalty on that creature if it attacks anyone else has a built-in assurance that their taunt will in fact affect that opponent provided it fails its Wisdom save. That character also has the benefit of being able to gage when there is reasonable expectation of that target failing such a saving throw based on quantifiable numerical bonuses, and mathematical probabilities. The can absolutely know without a shadow of a doubt that when they pop off their ability and it gets through the other creature’s defenses that it absolutely will not matter how many people are stabbing it in whichever body parts, or however many fireballs are aimed straight up its cornhole, that creature will be affected. Period.
Whenever any character just sings words at an enemy, that’s really all it is. There’s absolutely no definitive guarantee that it will work. They just pinning the hope that they roleplay it well enough that it works, and it’ll only work as long as they have in fact actually roleplayed it well enough, the enemy is of a temperament inclined to react the way they hope, and the situation is not prohibitive.
It’s kinda like the difference between getting paid a commission for making a sale, as compared to working for tips. A commissioned salesperson knows that if they do their job right, and the customer fails their Wis save does purchase the product, that they will get their compensation for the sale because that’s the way the system is set up. They can even calculate how much commission they’re gonna get based on their rate and the price paid at the time of sale. Someone who works on tips is going out there with absolutely no assurances whatsoever. They just give it their best shot and do what they can and hope that someone on the other side of the table judges their work to be good enough that they should get compensated for their efforts, and decides how much those efforts are worth. See what I mean?
Wrong. I wrote that it could affect the ogre’s choice of targets, if it would not prove obviously detrimental to the ogre.
Attacking the dodging harmless target instead of the one who just stabbed it in the back or the one who's about to hit it with a fireball is obviously detrimental to the ogre.
Let me repeat myself. Again. (God I hate having to say the same 💩 over and over again, so do me a favor and please at least try to pay attention this time.)
IF SOMEONE IS STABBING IT IN THE BACK, OR THREATENING IT WITH A FIREBALL, THEN IT WOULD CLEARLY NOT FALL FOR THE TAUNT IN THAT INSTANCE AS THAT WOULD FALL UNDER THE GENERAL CATEGORY OF “OBVIOUSLY DETRIMENTAL” TO IT.
Was it clear enough that go ‘round? Or do you need me to restate the exact same thing a 5th time…? 😒
And that's what makes it pointless. Taunting with no actual mechanical effect that makes the enemy compelled to attack you for some reason is no different than saying you're thrusting with your longsword vs making a backhand swing with it when you attack: pure fluff that makes no actual difference.
Was it clear enough that go ‘round? Or do you need me to restate the exact same thing a 5th time…? 😒
So your point is that taunts are effective as long as they're useless? I thought you were trying to make a point that's in some way relevant to this thread.
Wrong. I wrote that it could affect the ogre’s choice of targets, if it would not prove obviously detrimental to the ogre.
Attacking the dodging harmless target instead of the one who just stabbed it in the back or the one who's about to hit it with a fireball is obviously detrimental to the ogre.
Let me repeat myself. Again. (God I hate having to say the same 💩 over and over again, so do me a favor and please at least try to pay attention this time.)
IF SOMEONE IS STABBING IT IN THE BACK, OR THREATENING IT WITH A FIREBALL, THEN IT WOULD CLEARLY NOT FALL FOR THE TAUNT IN THAT INSTANCE AS THAT WOULD FALL UNDER THE GENERAL CATEGORY OF “OBVIOUSLY DETRIMENTAL” TO IT.
Was it clear enough that go ‘round? Or do you need me to restate the exact same thing a 5th time…? 😒
And that's what makes it pointless. Taunting with no actual mechanical effect that makes the enemy compelled to attack you for some reason is no different than saying you're thrusting with your longsword vs making a backhand swing with it when you attack: pure fluff that makes no actual difference.
^^ 100% this
I give the **** up. I’m not sure if it’s that none of you are capable of grasping the concept of taking good roleplay into account when adjudicating situations at the table, or if you are incapable of imagining such a situation is actually possible, or if you really just think that things should only be governed purely by a sterile numerical formula, or where the disconnect is happening. What I do know for sure is that my forehead is sore from banging it against a brick wall of accumulated obstinance, so I’ma go do something more productive and fulfilling than this conversation (which shouldn’t be hard to find because I’m struggling to think of anything that wouldn’t be more productive and fulfilling than this conversation). As the man said:
This is the Tips & Tactics forum. It's about dealing with optimization of mechanical rules. Stuff that's pure fluff is great but also not relevant.
Aw come on man, it's Tips, not Rules. Rules is for the Rules forum.
The thing I don't get it why everybody thinks the Dodge action requires the user to be dancing. The description just says you make yourself ready to avoid attacks, not bounce around.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
This is the Tips & Tactics forum. It's about dealing with optimization of mechanical rules. Stuff that's pure fluff is great but also not relevant.
Aw come on man, it's Tips, not Rules. Rules is for the Rules forum.
The thing I don't get it why everybody thinks the Dodge action requires the user to be dancing. The description just says you make yourself ready to avoid attacks, not bounce around.
Thank you. I was tempted to point that out myself a while back, but decided that was the least of what I wanted to address and decided not to stake a claim on that hill as I had already chosen a few to die on. But I’m glad you brought it up because they’re being rather disingenuous with all that nonsense about dancing and whatnot in place. Like, what? Do they truly see the character as some spastic monkey with ants in its pants or something?!?
Aw come on man, it's Tips, not Rules. Rules is for the Rules forum.
The tip was 'dodge is better than you think it is'. That is, fundamentally, a claim about combat optimization, and that means it's a mechanics question. Now, if the tip was "you should get your enemies to do stupid stuff", well, it's obviously true though not necessarily very informative, and "attacking the person who's dodging instead of the real threats" is typically stupid.
Now, you could add a house rule that says that when you take the dodge action you can also attempt an ability check of some sort, such as an intimidate or deception check (the most likely checks to be useful for pulling aggro). Or lots of other checks, if you want to spend your action on an acrobatics check I have no problem letting you dodge as part of the action. That might even be a good rule. It is not, however, the way the rules currently work.
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Who ever said anything about “play[ing] a significant role” during combat? Is the ogre deciding to smash “dat puny 'umie” or “dat uver puny ‘umie” typically all that “significant.” Not really, no. Either way, once initiative was rolled that ogre’s life expectancy suddenly dropped from however the heck long ogres are usually supposed to live, to somewhere between 6-18 seconds. That’s regardless of which “puny ‘umie” it tries to smash first.
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You did, and yes, it is. Sure, we know the ogre is fodder for the meat grinder, but you should be playing the ogre as trying to win. Unless, of course, the taunt occurred before combat... but you can't dodge before combat has started, because dodge is a combat action.
I always play the ogre as trying to win. You’re splitting unnecessary hairs about when the ogre is insulted as if it matters at all. The ogre got insulted. The ogre feels insulted. The ogre tries to smash the puny gubbin what insulted it. That’s all the ogre knows. What possible thing in the world could make any difference to that ogre if the insult happened before or after it decided to start popping puny gubbins. A smashed gubbin is a smashed gubbin, and a smashed gun in can’t say mean things no more.
And please, do quote where I ever wrote anything whatsoever about such an insult playing a “significant role” in combat. Go ahead, I’ll get popcorn and wait. You might wanna pee first though, because you’re gonna be reading a while and ultimately not find anything, so if you need to go you should do it ahead of time.
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You said it would affect the ogre's choice of targets. That's a significant role. You denied that it's significant, but I'm under no obligation to accept your denial.
Wrong. I wrote that it could affect the ogre’s choice of targets, if it would not prove obviously detrimental to the ogre.
The only actually true part of your statement was that you’re under no obligation to accept what I’m saying.
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Attacking the dodging harmless target instead of the one who just stabbed it in the back or the one who's about to hit it with a fireball is obviously detrimental to the ogre.
If it's not required, it's not relevant. A player wanting to exploit dodge, needs to require people to attack him or be ignored. At the very least, there must be some form of penalty for not attacking. If you just GIVE the player who taunts free attacks, you devalue the features that other players spec into.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Why? What would the additional penalty look like? The player chose to take a perfectly legal action in combat why must you give them a penalty for doing so? Why punish the player for that?
Why must there be a penalty to taking the moral high ground? What if instead of insults the dodger is trying to negotiate? "I don't want to kill you, we can both walk away from this. If you ignore me and go after that little girl, I'm going to stick this sword in your back."
What if the person dodging is in front and the bandit will suffer an OA if he goes past him to attack the rest of the party?
I've done my share of verbal taunts after combat has started in real life. All it took was "Is that all you got?" and "Are you done yet?" to make the person come after me instead of somebody else. I don't have magic, I'm not a kender, I don't have class features or traits. I'm just me.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
The additional penalty would be on the creature you're trying to get attack you, not the character trying to dodge, because if you dodge and everyone proceeds to ignore you, you might as well not be there at all.
Currently, something like this.
Unwavering Mark
Starting at 3rd level, you can menace your foes, foiling their attacks and punishing them for harming others. When you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can mark the creature until the end of your next turn. This effect ends early if you are incapacitated or you die, or if someone else marks the creature.
While it is within 5 feet of you, a creature marked by you has disadvantage on any attack roll that doesn’t target you.
In addition, if a creature marked by you deals damage to anyone other than you, you can make a special melee weapon attack against the marked creature as a bonus action on your next turn. You have advantage on the attack roll, and if it hits, the attack’s weapon deals extra damage to the target equal to half your fighter level.
Regardless of the number of creatures you mark, you can make this special attack a number of times equal to your Strength modifier (minimum of once), and you regain all expended uses of it when you finish a long rest.
You can say that all you want, but the DM can attack anyone they want to. Why would he hit you if you're dodging and not a threat?
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Let me repeat myself. Again. (God I hate having to say the same 💩 over and over again, so do me a favor and please at least try to pay attention this time.)
Was it clear enough that go ‘round? Or do you need me to restate the exact same thing a 5th time…? 😒
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And that's what makes it pointless. Taunting with no actual mechanical effect that makes the enemy compelled to attack you for some reason is no different than saying you're thrusting with your longsword vs making a backhand swing with it when you attack: pure fluff that makes no actual difference.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
So your point is that taunts are effective as long as they're useless? I thought you were trying to make a point that's in some way relevant to this thread.
^^ 100% this
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
🤦♂️
A character with a codified, mechanical feature, trait, or spell specially designed and intended to specifically either draw agro from another creature or impose a penalty on that creature if it attacks anyone else has a built-in assurance that their taunt will in fact affect that opponent provided it fails its Wisdom save. That character also has the benefit of being able to gage when there is reasonable expectation of that target failing such a saving throw based on quantifiable numerical bonuses, and mathematical probabilities. The can absolutely know without a shadow of a doubt that when they pop off their ability and it gets through the other creature’s defenses that it absolutely will not matter how many people are stabbing it in whichever body parts, or however many fireballs are aimed straight up its cornhole, that creature will be affected. Period.
Whenever any character just sings words at an enemy, that’s really all it is. There’s absolutely no definitive guarantee that it will work. They just pinning the hope that they roleplay it well enough that it works, and it’ll only work as long as they have in fact actually roleplayed it well enough, the enemy is of a temperament inclined to react the way they hope, and the situation is not prohibitive.
It’s kinda like the difference between getting paid a commission for making a sale, as compared to working for tips. A commissioned salesperson knows that if they do their job right, and the customer
fails their Wis savedoes purchase the product, that they will get their compensation for the sale because that’s the way the system is set up. They can even calculate how much commission they’re gonna get based on their rate and the price paid at the time of sale. Someone who works on tips is going out there with absolutely no assurances whatsoever. They just give it their best shot and do what they can and hope that someone on the other side of the table judges their work to be good enough that they should get compensated for their efforts, and decides how much those efforts are worth. See what I mean?Creating Epic Boons on DDB
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I give the **** up. I’m not sure if it’s that none of you are capable of grasping the concept of taking good roleplay into account when adjudicating situations at the table, or if you are incapable of imagining such a situation is actually possible, or if you really just think that things should only be governed purely by a sterile numerical formula, or where the disconnect is happening. What I do know for sure is that my forehead is sore from banging it against a brick wall of accumulated obstinance, so I’ma go do something more productive and fulfilling than this conversation (which shouldn’t be hard to find because I’m struggling to think of anything that wouldn’t be more productive and fulfilling than this conversation). As the man said:
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This is the Tips & Tactics forum. It's about dealing with optimization of mechanical rules. Stuff that's pure fluff is great but also not relevant.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Aw come on man, it's Tips, not Rules. Rules is for the Rules forum.
The thing I don't get it why everybody thinks the Dodge action requires the user to be dancing. The description just says you make yourself ready to avoid attacks, not bounce around.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Thank you. I was tempted to point that out myself a while back, but decided that was the least of what I wanted to address and decided not to stake a claim on that hill as I had already chosen a few to die on. But I’m glad you brought it up because they’re being rather disingenuous with all that nonsense about dancing and whatnot in place. Like, what? Do they truly see the character as some spastic monkey with ants in its pants or something?!?
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Content Troubleshooting
The tip was 'dodge is better than you think it is'. That is, fundamentally, a claim about combat optimization, and that means it's a mechanics question. Now, if the tip was "you should get your enemies to do stupid stuff", well, it's obviously true though not necessarily very informative, and "attacking the person who's dodging instead of the real threats" is typically stupid.
Now, you could add a house rule that says that when you take the dodge action you can also attempt an ability check of some sort, such as an intimidate or deception check (the most likely checks to be useful for pulling aggro). Or lots of other checks, if you want to spend your action on an acrobatics check I have no problem letting you dodge as part of the action. That might even be a good rule. It is not, however, the way the rules currently work.