Hello. New to these forums, so please tell me if I am in the wrong place with this question.
I'm looking to play a young nobleman, trained in the way of the honorable duel. Really the only requirements I have at this point is that he be an Elf and use a rapier. I want him to excel in single combat, and not have any in-combat spells (wouldn't be honorable). I just played a fighter, so I'd like to avoid playing another. Just looking for any build suggestions, starting at level 10.
I assume you will have access to most races, classes, feats, etc. For a non-fighter (and presumably non-ranger as this plays combat very similarly to a fighter) and no magic build I would go with the following:
Ability Scores:
~ Highest stat will be DEX, if you're going Point Buy this should be 15. You will get +2 from race, +1 from feat, +2 from ASI. Total: 20. ~ Next will be CHA at 14, this is for the Class features. ~ Then CON with 13 which will get +1 from race. This is to give you some added health which you are going to need for a non-fighter/ranger Dex based melee fighting build. ~ Honestly the rest will not matter so spread your remaining points as you see fit. Strength will be your dump stat, it has no benefit to this build at all. I would recommend 10 for INT so you're average there at least and 12 WIS just so you have something for WIS saving throws - one hold person, dominate person or even suggestion can screw you over, some mental defense is necessary.
Race is best as Shadar-Kai Elf. You are not required to be evil, but their +1 CON and free use of Misty Step to grant brief resistance to all damage for a round is amazingly useful.
For Class I would say Rogue. Since you want to avoid Fighter and such I say go full Rogue. You get the level 9 subclass feature which is going to go well as a "duelist" and as a rogue you get an extra ASI/feat at level 10.
When you choose Proficiencies and Expertise and the levels you are prompted, consider one of them to be Persuasion and make it an Expertise choice too. This will be useful for the Level 9 subclass feature. The rest is whatever you want. Acrobatic is a good one for avoiding grapples and makes sense thematically too. You can go focus on your DEX skills like Stealth but your sneak attacks will not come from skirmishing (hit and run/hide) tactics although Stealth can be useful but not very thematic since a duelist is all about honorable 1-vs-1 engagement. You may consider bumping your INT and WIS skills to make up for the lacklustre stats. Performance is also good thematically.
Your Roguish Archetype? Swashbuckler, of course!
The Swashbuckler is designed as a duelist, somebody who is all about facing the enemy directly 1-vs-1. The Fancy Footwork is like a mobile feat, if you attack a creature then whether you hit or miss you can move without provoking attacks of opportunity from it. This can get you out of tight spots or to move yourself to more advantageous position - you need to engage enemies one by one, so this helps you avoid being surrounded.
The Rakish Audacity is the meat-and-potatoes of the build, it is why the build is worth it. It offers you two things: bonus to initiative equal to CHA mod, which if going by the recommendations is +2 which means an Initiative bonus of +7. Going first is useful but not super important for the build so this is just some sweetness. But the thing this feature offers you need is: if you are engaging an enemy alone with no other creatures near you (ally or enemy) then you get Sneak Attack. So, you do not need to hide to get advantage or anything, you just need to be duelling it alone and not have disadvantage. With your Fancy Footwork this is very doable, happy stabby fun.
You will have 3 ASI/Feat choices. One should be +2 DEX. This is obvious. Now, this one I suggest is going to be a bit weird and takes some liberties. You wanted a fencer but fencer and duelist are not exactly the same thing. All fencers are duelists - their style is based on a duel - but not all duelists are fencers. Fencers suck in real battle. Fencing as a sport does not teach you how to be safe in combat because the sport of fencing has rules, specialised suit and capped tips on the sword. Fencing is based on the idea your opponent is fencing too. More often than not they will not be and will be trying to get away to shoot you with arrows and bolts, cave your head in with hammers, slice you in half with axes, and so on. Your light armour and dexterity will not offer you much, so you should do what all other duelists do: get a damn shield.
So one choice should be the Moderately Armored feat. With this you get +1 DEX which now means Max DEX, and proficiency with Shields. You also get proficiency with Medium armour but if you have high DEX you're actually better off sticking with Light armour. The best Medium armour is half-plate which is 750 gp nets you max AC 19 and disadvantage on stealth. Studded Leather armour, a light armour, which also nets you AC 19, only 45 gp and no disadvantage to stealth. Without this feat your max AC is 16 or 17, so it's worth getting.
The other choice should be Defensive Duelist feat. Since you are using a finesse weapon when you are hit (not just attacked, this is only if the attack would succeed) you can use your reaction to add your proficiency bonus to your AC potentially causing the attack to now miss you. It's only for that attack but with a proficiency bonus of +4 that momentarily gives you an AC 23 which is useful in keeping you safe, and you will be needing the help.
For future considerations consider Sentinel feat and you will definitely want to consider Elven Accuracy feat. The level 17 subclass feature lets you turn a miss into an attack with advantage and this then triggers Elven Accuracy meaning you roll 2 die, reroll lowest. This is another chance at a critical which, with your sneak attack, is insanely brutal. The Lucky feat will be helpful for a similar reason. You may also want to consider increasing CON and/or getting Tough feat. Extra health is always useful. Even with the extra defences you may end up getting hit more often than not, so the higher health will be key for later game survival. Increasing CON is better than Tough in my opinion for the CON saving throws (DEX and CON are the most frequent saving throws followng by WIS).
Tip: if your DM uses the "advantage when flanking" optional rule work with your allies to always flank as much as possible. You will get advantage more often, assisting with Sneak Attack plus extra chance for critical which is further increased by Elven Accuracy if you get that: there is a 5% chance of getting a 20 on a d20 and you are rolling 3d20 for each attack, it's going to happen and more than it will for others and critting on sneak attack is just pure awesome.
If you really want a damage-dealing duelist try lifting the restriction about magic. Take some levels in Sorc or Wizard or go Arcane Trickster. Come up with ways to cause Dim Light (don't use dancing lights yourself, you have allies for a reason) and ensure you have Elven Accuracy. Take Booming Blade cantrip and the spell Shadow Blade and in dim light with Elven Accuracy: extra damage from booming blade, min 2d8 from shadow blade (more if you upcast), you still get sneak attack and you get advantage on every attack wth your elven accuracy for increased chances of hitting and critting and if you do crit all of this, all of it, gets rolled again to add to the damage... It. Is. Brutal. Plus, you can opt for Mage Armour which is superior to Studded Leather or Medium armour. Getting an enemy low and then using Sleep or using Hold Person for some nice auto-criticals. The magic restriction is really nerfing you, weird though it may be spellcasters be it full, half or third or whatever, have the potential to be far more efficient at combat than their martial equivalents, if you build it right. If you choose Sorc Levels go draconic to save on using Mage Armor plus get a bit more health and you can double the duration of your shadow blade, if you go Wizard consider Abjurer or Bladesinging.
Hope you find these suggestions helpful.
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Thank you! If I were to get rid of the no fighter/magic restrictions, how would your suggestion change? I appreciate your response, it's most definitely helpful.
I might still suggest Swashbuckler at least to lvl 3 and maybe go fighter/eldritch knight for some self buff abilities and extra attacks. But boy howdy was that eloquently put in your description Cyber.
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Multiclassing with Fighter is actually not the best. Sure you'd get Action Surge, but to make it worthwhile you'll need to go a minimum of Level 8 as Elditch Knight or forget rogue entirely. As a person wanting to focus as a duelist, you indeed are better off sticking with Rogue and maximising the use of your Sneak Attack.
Without restricting magic your choices really open up. I do find that combining Shadow Blade, Booming Blade and Sneak Attack. There is more than one way to get this working and I am no expert at these things as I rarely play melee-classes with the exception of Monk.
So, here's one way:
Keep Race the same and your stats will be mostly the same as above except we'll be switching the INT and CHA around: 14 INT and 10 CHA. Yes, no more +2 to Initiative but this is a wizard multiclass build here so you need the INT, you don't need much, but you do need it.
So, with Point Buy: 15 DEX, 14 INT, 13 CON, 12 WIS, 10 CHA and 8 STR.
Race should be the same. You could swap INT and CON and go High Elf but the only benefit is extra cantrip while sticking with Shadar-Kai is better. The teleport as bonus with resistance to everything for a round is, strategically speaking, brilliant. Whether you save it for getting out of dodge or to get in close to an enemy knowing you are a bit safer for a turn can be clutch.
Start with 5 levels of Rogue. You get less sneak attack, but the spellcasting makes up for this.
Stick with Swashbuckler, that Fancy Footwork and Rakish Audacity are great for a build like this.
The next 5 levels should be Wizard and for the Arcane Tradition go Bladesinging.
The Bladesong feature is twice per short rest which is plenty, really and gives you great duelling features: You can no longer use a shield so there's no point in getting Moderately Armored feat anymore. The Bladesong feature does let you add your INT modifier as a bonus to your AC so there's no loss here. Your speed increases by 10 feet which works wonderfully with your Fancy Footwork. You get to add your INT to concentration checks which is awesome because Shadow Blade is a Concentration spell.
Your ASI/Feats should be Elven Accuracy and +2 DEX. I forgot to mention in previous post but Elven Accuracy can be used to add +1 to your DEX.
Now for those Wizard spells:
Cantrips
Booming Blade for the damage and locking down your enemy: you'll do extra 1d8 damage on attack and if they move on their turn they automatically take 2d8, these will each increase by 1d8 on your next level-up. It's a fantastic strategic melee cantrip that ties in well for the build.
Control Flames is going to be useful when finding ways to help you in combat, especially if you have a moment before combat begins. It will let you douse flames at a distance which can make things go dim light or fully dark : your darkvision lets you see and in this low light your Shadow Blade will give you advantage on attacks, even if the attack is part of Booming Blade, which means Sneak Attack and Elven Accuracy increasing chance to hit and crit.
The rest are up to you and will not adding value to the build but you can consider something with range just in case they're keeping too much distance. Utility cantrips like Prestidigitation, Mage Hand or Mending are useful as will Message for stealthy communication. The cantrip Green-Flame Blade may look enticing because it seems similar to Booming Blade but don't get it as it will become utterly useless for you in one more level and I will explain that more in a bit.
1st-Level Spells
Mage Armor - You can go a magic light armour route or the mage armour route but, personally, if you find the right magic items with AC bonuses these will stack with mage armour but will not with actual armour. Even if you decide to go with actual armour having this spell in your backpocket can be helpful. This spell means if you're not wearing armour you get an AC of 13 + DEX. This is like wearing Studded Leather +1. With max DEX and Bladesong this spell will give you an AC of 20. This will stack if you get Bracers of Defense (rare, +2 AC), Cloak of Protection (Uncommon, +1 AC and Saving Throws) and Ring of Protection (+1 AC and Saving Throws) which can get you an AC of 24. The bracers do not work with actual armour and to get this AC you would need Studded Leather +3 which is "Legendary" item while the other items are rare or less. Mage Armour works out better, in my opinion.
Shield - You will not be casting many spells as you will be relying on attacking with your shadowblade so using Shield spell to protect you just makes sense, you will have the spell slots to use for it, and gets you +5 AC for a round when you need it.
Find Familiar - get yourself an owl. The owl has 60 ft fly speed and has Flyby meaning it does not provoke attacks of opportunity. It can swoop in, use the Help action to distract the enemy you are engaged with and then fly away safely. This distraction grants advantage on the next attack made against that enemy which should be yours so: you get the sneak attack and elven- you get the idea. Already in dim light or darkness getting advantage 'cos Shadow Blade rocks? It can help an ally then! Out of combat it's a great scout too.
These are the must-haves but there are other spells like Grease, Sleep and Absorb Elements. these can be very useful but are situational or tricky to use and you can get by without if you'd prefer to add some non-combat spells. Just remember, in combat, you want to avoid anything that uses Concentration because you need that for Shadow Blade.
2nd-Level Spells
Blindness/Deafness - Blinding your enemy is great, this lasts 1 minute or until they save and while blind their attacks are disadvantage and all of yours are at advantage. It's not concentration but is a CON save which is one of the most resisted saving throws especially in higher level enemies. Never hurts to try though.
Mirror Image - You are going to be up-close with an enemy so you need all the defense you can get and this is a very useful defensive spell.
Misty Step - If you find yourself surrounded or need to move more tactfully or go a bit further without having to use Dash this spell is what you need. 30 ft teleport as a bonus action: an almost invaluable spell.
SHADOW BLADE - The key to the build's damage output. The base 2d8 damage is better than many magic weapons and in dim light or darkness you get advantage. It's a weapon that works with all your features including Booming Blade cantrip and is just awesome. And you can upcast it to do more damage. If you upcast as 3rd Level it's 3d8! It's a bonus action to cast and you can even throw it 20 ft and still get advantage etc as the duration is concentration for 1 minute and during that time you can use a bonus action to summon it back into your hand. You probably won't be throwing it much but the option is nice to have incase you ever need to.
3rd-Level Spells
There are no must-have spells "for the build" so pick as you want. Counterspell and Dispel Magic are good staples, but there are not many spells that are not concentration. Blink may be worth looking into but really it is better for you to stick around and lock your enemy in - if they tried to leave, for example, your booming blade damage triggers and you get an attack of opportunity which will probably include sneak attack and if you have advantage - yay elven accuracy for extra hit and crit chance. Mostly you are going to want to use your 3rd level spell slots for an upcast of Shadow Blade.
The tactics of the build is engage enemies one by one, get advantage whenever you can to use elven accuracy, use sneak attack either from advantage, Rakish Audacity or the usual ways of getting it. Flank enemies if the DM permits that rule. Have your allies understand so they can take other enemies off you and/or help give you advantage where possible. Any ally able to paralyzed your target for you is your best friend: your hits are now auto-crits. With sneak attack.
In the favorable conditions your attack is: 3d8 (Shadow Blade, 3rd level) + 1d8 Booming Blade + 3d6 (Sneak Attack). This is an average of: 28 or 56 on critical. Your minimum is 7 (14 on crit) and maximum is 50 (100 on crit).
When you level-up consider the next level to be Wizard. The 6th level in wizard gets you the Bladesinging feature: Extra Attack! Now you have options: use booming blade for locking your enemy in or attack twice. Booming blade also increases. So, if you do find yourself with another enemy near you then with this extra attack you could attack both for 3d8 each (plus sneak attack on one if able). This is why Green-Flame Blade is useless: you'd only attack once and the other guy just gets 1d8+2.
Booming Blade option is an extra 1d8 while going the two attacks option is extra 2d8 compared to before. Personally, I think locking your enemy in with Booming Blade is better than the second attack but there will be situations where you just need to deal more damage. If you have advantage always go for the second attack because with elven accuracy you get more chances for a critical with the second attack and critting a 3d8 is nifty.
You will want these classes to progress evenly, to get 10 levels in each. The levels in Rogue increase Sneak Attack to 5d6 and the levels in Wizard get you higher level slots for upcasting Shadow Blade. At level 10 you get 5th level slots which bump it to 4d8. With 2 attacks that's 8d8+5d6 damage, and if you Crit... Ouch.
Future ASI/Feat options should consider CON and INT increases. The INT will improve your AC and spells and CON improves your health. You can consider Warcaster so you can focus on the two attacks and if the enemy tries to get away you can use Booming Blade for your Attack of Opportunity: if they continue to move away, extra damage! Warcaster wll also help you maitain Shadow Blade. You'll get 3 more ASI/Feats and +2 CON, +2 INT and Warcaster seems a decent spread. If you get hit that's a +3 to your concentration check and advantage to maintain the blade.
This is not the most optimal but I believe it will be fun, thematic and has decent damage output with some versatility and non-combat utility too.
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If you have advantage always go for the second attack because with elven accuracy you get more chances for a critical with the second attack and critting a 3d8 is nifty.
A small tip on this: if you have at least a 55% chance to hit before advantage (i.e. you can hit with a d20 roll as low as 10), it's actually better on average not to Sneak Attack if you land your first attack. Rolling 3 dice, the odds of scoring a critical hit on the second attack (14.26%) outweigh the odds of missing (9.11% or less).
This is also possible without Elven Accuracy but the extra die really lowers the bar for when that strategy makes sense.
I'm not a math whiz but when both attacks are basically rolling 3 d20 are not the chance of critting the same? Why would it be better to use sneak on the second attack - why is the odds of critting higher on a second attack than a first when you're rolling the same for each?
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I'm not a math whiz but when both attacks are basically rolling 3 d20 are not the chance of critting the same? Why would it be better to use sneak on the second attack - why is the odds of critting higher on a second attack than a first when you're rolling the same for each?
Sorry, I could've been a bit clearer. When I said "if you land your first attack" I was assuming you scored a regular hit but not a critical hit on your first attack.
At that point you have a choice: take your guaranteed 3d6 Sneak Attack damage on the first attack, or gamble on the second. Since you have a higher chance of scoring a crit and doubling your Sneak Attack damage than missing and getting nothing, the second hit will do better than 3d6 on average.
Of course, if you score a crit on the first hit you should take that unless you're sure it's overkill and there's a different enemy you could attack. You can't do better than a crit so there's no sense in gambling on the second attack.
Look at oath of the crown paladin, they literally get an ability to challenge opponents to an honorable dual as well as a spell compelled dual. Think this will fit well with the feel you described. (Think they are in sword coast adventure guide)
If you're not married to staying away from fighter, I'm playing a fighter-rogue multiclass as a duelist and it feels great. Currently level 9, 4 in swashbuckler rogue and 5 in battlemaster fighter. Though he's more of a gladiator/show fighter than an honorable duelist. I chose riposte, goading attack, and feinting attack as my maneuvers.
I know I am late to the party here but the Martial Adept feat with Parry and Riposte also works really well for this build, allowing for either a reduction in damage or a free attack if you get missed by an enemy
I have always thought of building one of my Bards as a duelist. A sharp tongue gets him into the dual and his fencing skills gets him out of it.
I agree that you will probably use one ASI for +2 ability score and another one for a feat, probably with another +1 ability score.
He has spells but he doesn't have to use them during a dual. I enjoy playing Bards so this is probably not an optimal build. You'd spend plenty of points building Charisma which won't help you during a dual where you cast no spells.
You may consider this a violation of your "no spells" rule, but the College of Valor allows you to use your Bardic Inspiration capability for combat, and that isn't a spell. Other Colleges also allow the use of Bardic Inspiration for some particular thing. I chose College of Valor because they get armor and martial weapons, so that sort of thing might factor into your idea of a build.
If you want to go full flavor (and you don't care about optimizing), I would say a dexterity-based Battle Master Fighter is perfect. No spells, but with your rapier you do a lot of cool tricks, like tripping them prone, disarming them, and many, many others.
The only reason I said that about optimizing is because a true fencer only has 1 rapier, and no offhand weapon, and no shield. You'll be nerfing yourself on purpose because a shield would give you +2 AC with no downside. Also, if you take the Dual Wielder Feat you can fight with two rapiers, or a rapier and a dagger, and get a bonus action attack with your off hand.
If you're flexible with not fighting exactly like a fencer that you can optimize, or at least not intentionally nerf yourself. You won't be able to do two-weapon fighting (with a rapier) until you can take the feat. This means level 4 if you're an Elf, or right away if you're a human variant.
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Hello. New to these forums, so please tell me if I am in the wrong place with this question.
I'm looking to play a young nobleman, trained in the way of the honorable duel. Really the only requirements I have at this point is that he be an Elf and use a rapier. I want him to excel in single combat, and not have any in-combat spells (wouldn't be honorable). I just played a fighter, so I'd like to avoid playing another. Just looking for any build suggestions, starting at level 10.
Thanks!
I assume you will have access to most races, classes, feats, etc. For a non-fighter (and presumably non-ranger as this plays combat very similarly to a fighter) and no magic build I would go with the following:
Ability Scores:
~ Highest stat will be DEX, if you're going Point Buy this should be 15. You will get +2 from race, +1 from feat, +2 from ASI. Total: 20.
~ Next will be CHA at 14, this is for the Class features.
~ Then CON with 13 which will get +1 from race. This is to give you some added health which you are going to need for a non-fighter/ranger Dex based melee fighting build.
~ Honestly the rest will not matter so spread your remaining points as you see fit. Strength will be your dump stat, it has no benefit to this build at all. I would recommend 10 for INT so you're average there at least and 12 WIS just so you have something for WIS saving throws - one hold person, dominate person or even suggestion can screw you over, some mental defense is necessary.
Race is best as Shadar-Kai Elf. You are not required to be evil, but their +1 CON and free use of Misty Step to grant brief resistance to all damage for a round is amazingly useful.
For Class I would say Rogue. Since you want to avoid Fighter and such I say go full Rogue. You get the level 9 subclass feature which is going to go well as a "duelist" and as a rogue you get an extra ASI/feat at level 10.
When you choose Proficiencies and Expertise and the levels you are prompted, consider one of them to be Persuasion and make it an Expertise choice too. This will be useful for the Level 9 subclass feature. The rest is whatever you want. Acrobatic is a good one for avoiding grapples and makes sense thematically too. You can go focus on your DEX skills like Stealth but your sneak attacks will not come from skirmishing (hit and run/hide) tactics although Stealth can be useful but not very thematic since a duelist is all about honorable 1-vs-1 engagement. You may consider bumping your INT and WIS skills to make up for the lacklustre stats. Performance is also good thematically.
Your Roguish Archetype? Swashbuckler, of course!
The Swashbuckler is designed as a duelist, somebody who is all about facing the enemy directly 1-vs-1. The Fancy Footwork is like a mobile feat, if you attack a creature then whether you hit or miss you can move without provoking attacks of opportunity from it. This can get you out of tight spots or to move yourself to more advantageous position - you need to engage enemies one by one, so this helps you avoid being surrounded.
The Rakish Audacity is the meat-and-potatoes of the build, it is why the build is worth it. It offers you two things: bonus to initiative equal to CHA mod, which if going by the recommendations is +2 which means an Initiative bonus of +7. Going first is useful but not super important for the build so this is just some sweetness. But the thing this feature offers you need is: if you are engaging an enemy alone with no other creatures near you (ally or enemy) then you get Sneak Attack. So, you do not need to hide to get advantage or anything, you just need to be duelling it alone and not have disadvantage. With your Fancy Footwork this is very doable, happy stabby fun.
You will have 3 ASI/Feat choices. One should be +2 DEX. This is obvious. Now, this one I suggest is going to be a bit weird and takes some liberties. You wanted a fencer but fencer and duelist are not exactly the same thing. All fencers are duelists - their style is based on a duel - but not all duelists are fencers. Fencers suck in real battle. Fencing as a sport does not teach you how to be safe in combat because the sport of fencing has rules, specialised suit and capped tips on the sword. Fencing is based on the idea your opponent is fencing too. More often than not they will not be and will be trying to get away to shoot you with arrows and bolts, cave your head in with hammers, slice you in half with axes, and so on. Your light armour and dexterity will not offer you much, so you should do what all other duelists do: get a damn shield.
So one choice should be the Moderately Armored feat. With this you get +1 DEX which now means Max DEX, and proficiency with Shields. You also get proficiency with Medium armour but if you have high DEX you're actually better off sticking with Light armour. The best Medium armour is half-plate which is 750 gp nets you max AC 19 and disadvantage on stealth. Studded Leather armour, a light armour, which also nets you AC 19, only 45 gp and no disadvantage to stealth. Without this feat your max AC is 16 or 17, so it's worth getting.
The other choice should be Defensive Duelist feat. Since you are using a finesse weapon when you are hit (not just attacked, this is only if the attack would succeed) you can use your reaction to add your proficiency bonus to your AC potentially causing the attack to now miss you. It's only for that attack but with a proficiency bonus of +4 that momentarily gives you an AC 23 which is useful in keeping you safe, and you will be needing the help.
For future considerations consider Sentinel feat and you will definitely want to consider Elven Accuracy feat. The level 17 subclass feature lets you turn a miss into an attack with advantage and this then triggers Elven Accuracy meaning you roll 2 die, reroll lowest. This is another chance at a critical which, with your sneak attack, is insanely brutal. The Lucky feat will be helpful for a similar reason. You may also want to consider increasing CON and/or getting Tough feat. Extra health is always useful. Even with the extra defences you may end up getting hit more often than not, so the higher health will be key for later game survival. Increasing CON is better than Tough in my opinion for the CON saving throws (DEX and CON are the most frequent saving throws followng by WIS).
Tip: if your DM uses the "advantage when flanking" optional rule work with your allies to always flank as much as possible. You will get advantage more often, assisting with Sneak Attack plus extra chance for critical which is further increased by Elven Accuracy if you get that: there is a 5% chance of getting a 20 on a d20 and you are rolling 3d20 for each attack, it's going to happen and more than it will for others and critting on sneak attack is just pure awesome.
If you really want a damage-dealing duelist try lifting the restriction about magic. Take some levels in Sorc or Wizard or go Arcane Trickster. Come up with ways to cause Dim Light (don't use dancing lights yourself, you have allies for a reason) and ensure you have Elven Accuracy. Take Booming Blade cantrip and the spell Shadow Blade and in dim light with Elven Accuracy: extra damage from booming blade, min 2d8 from shadow blade (more if you upcast), you still get sneak attack and you get advantage on every attack wth your elven accuracy for increased chances of hitting and critting and if you do crit all of this, all of it, gets rolled again to add to the damage... It. Is. Brutal. Plus, you can opt for Mage Armour which is superior to Studded Leather or Medium armour. Getting an enemy low and then using Sleep or using Hold Person for some nice auto-criticals. The magic restriction is really nerfing you, weird though it may be spellcasters be it full, half or third or whatever, have the potential to be far more efficient at combat than their martial equivalents, if you build it right. If you choose Sorc Levels go draconic to save on using Mage Armor plus get a bit more health and you can double the duration of your shadow blade, if you go Wizard consider Abjurer or Bladesinging.
Hope you find these suggestions helpful.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Thank you! If I were to get rid of the no fighter/magic restrictions, how would your suggestion change? I appreciate your response, it's most definitely helpful.
I might still suggest Swashbuckler at least to lvl 3 and maybe go fighter/eldritch knight for some self buff abilities and extra attacks. But boy howdy was that eloquently put in your description Cyber.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Multiclassing with Fighter is actually not the best. Sure you'd get Action Surge, but to make it worthwhile you'll need to go a minimum of Level 8 as Elditch Knight or forget rogue entirely. As a person wanting to focus as a duelist, you indeed are better off sticking with Rogue and maximising the use of your Sneak Attack.
Without restricting magic your choices really open up. I do find that combining Shadow Blade, Booming Blade and Sneak Attack. There is more than one way to get this working and I am no expert at these things as I rarely play melee-classes with the exception of Monk.
So, here's one way:
Keep Race the same and your stats will be mostly the same as above except we'll be switching the INT and CHA around: 14 INT and 10 CHA. Yes, no more +2 to Initiative but this is a wizard multiclass build here so you need the INT, you don't need much, but you do need it.
So, with Point Buy: 15 DEX, 14 INT, 13 CON, 12 WIS, 10 CHA and 8 STR.
Race should be the same. You could swap INT and CON and go High Elf but the only benefit is extra cantrip while sticking with Shadar-Kai is better. The teleport as bonus with resistance to everything for a round is, strategically speaking, brilliant. Whether you save it for getting out of dodge or to get in close to an enemy knowing you are a bit safer for a turn can be clutch.
Start with 5 levels of Rogue. You get less sneak attack, but the spellcasting makes up for this.
Stick with Swashbuckler, that Fancy Footwork and Rakish Audacity are great for a build like this.
The next 5 levels should be Wizard and for the Arcane Tradition go Bladesinging.
The Bladesong feature is twice per short rest which is plenty, really and gives you great duelling features: You can no longer use a shield so there's no point in getting Moderately Armored feat anymore. The Bladesong feature does let you add your INT modifier as a bonus to your AC so there's no loss here. Your speed increases by 10 feet which works wonderfully with your Fancy Footwork. You get to add your INT to concentration checks which is awesome because Shadow Blade is a Concentration spell.
Your ASI/Feats should be Elven Accuracy and +2 DEX. I forgot to mention in previous post but Elven Accuracy can be used to add +1 to your DEX.
Now for those Wizard spells:
Cantrips
Booming Blade for the damage and locking down your enemy: you'll do extra 1d8 damage on attack and if they move on their turn they automatically take 2d8, these will each increase by 1d8 on your next level-up. It's a fantastic strategic melee cantrip that ties in well for the build.
Control Flames is going to be useful when finding ways to help you in combat, especially if you have a moment before combat begins. It will let you douse flames at a distance which can make things go dim light or fully dark : your darkvision lets you see and in this low light your Shadow Blade will give you advantage on attacks, even if the attack is part of Booming Blade, which means Sneak Attack and Elven Accuracy increasing chance to hit and crit.
The rest are up to you and will not adding value to the build but you can consider something with range just in case they're keeping too much distance. Utility cantrips like Prestidigitation, Mage Hand or Mending are useful as will Message for stealthy communication. The cantrip Green-Flame Blade may look enticing because it seems similar to Booming Blade but don't get it as it will become utterly useless for you in one more level and I will explain that more in a bit.
1st-Level Spells
Mage Armor - You can go a magic light armour route or the mage armour route but, personally, if you find the right magic items with AC bonuses these will stack with mage armour but will not with actual armour. Even if you decide to go with actual armour having this spell in your backpocket can be helpful. This spell means if you're not wearing armour you get an AC of 13 + DEX. This is like wearing Studded Leather +1. With max DEX and Bladesong this spell will give you an AC of 20. This will stack if you get Bracers of Defense (rare, +2 AC), Cloak of Protection (Uncommon, +1 AC and Saving Throws) and Ring of Protection (+1 AC and Saving Throws) which can get you an AC of 24. The bracers do not work with actual armour and to get this AC you would need Studded Leather +3 which is "Legendary" item while the other items are rare or less. Mage Armour works out better, in my opinion.
Shield - You will not be casting many spells as you will be relying on attacking with your shadowblade so using Shield spell to protect you just makes sense, you will have the spell slots to use for it, and gets you +5 AC for a round when you need it.
Find Familiar - get yourself an owl. The owl has 60 ft fly speed and has Flyby meaning it does not provoke attacks of opportunity. It can swoop in, use the Help action to distract the enemy you are engaged with and then fly away safely. This distraction grants advantage on the next attack made against that enemy which should be yours so: you get the sneak attack and elven- you get the idea. Already in dim light or darkness getting advantage 'cos Shadow Blade rocks? It can help an ally then! Out of combat it's a great scout too.
These are the must-haves but there are other spells like Grease, Sleep and Absorb Elements. these can be very useful but are situational or tricky to use and you can get by without if you'd prefer to add some non-combat spells. Just remember, in combat, you want to avoid anything that uses Concentration because you need that for Shadow Blade.
2nd-Level Spells
Blindness/Deafness - Blinding your enemy is great, this lasts 1 minute or until they save and while blind their attacks are disadvantage and all of yours are at advantage. It's not concentration but is a CON save which is one of the most resisted saving throws especially in higher level enemies. Never hurts to try though.
Mirror Image - You are going to be up-close with an enemy so you need all the defense you can get and this is a very useful defensive spell.
Misty Step - If you find yourself surrounded or need to move more tactfully or go a bit further without having to use Dash this spell is what you need. 30 ft teleport as a bonus action: an almost invaluable spell.
SHADOW BLADE - The key to the build's damage output. The base 2d8 damage is better than many magic weapons and in dim light or darkness you get advantage. It's a weapon that works with all your features including Booming Blade cantrip and is just awesome. And you can upcast it to do more damage. If you upcast as 3rd Level it's 3d8! It's a bonus action to cast and you can even throw it 20 ft and still get advantage etc as the duration is concentration for 1 minute and during that time you can use a bonus action to summon it back into your hand. You probably won't be throwing it much but the option is nice to have incase you ever need to.
3rd-Level Spells
There are no must-have spells "for the build" so pick as you want. Counterspell and Dispel Magic are good staples, but there are not many spells that are not concentration. Blink may be worth looking into but really it is better for you to stick around and lock your enemy in - if they tried to leave, for example, your booming blade damage triggers and you get an attack of opportunity which will probably include sneak attack and if you have advantage - yay elven accuracy for extra hit and crit chance. Mostly you are going to want to use your 3rd level spell slots for an upcast of Shadow Blade.
The tactics of the build is engage enemies one by one, get advantage whenever you can to use elven accuracy, use sneak attack either from advantage, Rakish Audacity or the usual ways of getting it. Flank enemies if the DM permits that rule. Have your allies understand so they can take other enemies off you and/or help give you advantage where possible. Any ally able to paralyzed your target for you is your best friend: your hits are now auto-crits. With sneak attack.
In the favorable conditions your attack is: 3d8 (Shadow Blade, 3rd level) + 1d8 Booming Blade + 3d6 (Sneak Attack). This is an average of: 28 or 56 on critical. Your minimum is 7 (14 on crit) and maximum is 50 (100 on crit).
When you level-up consider the next level to be Wizard. The 6th level in wizard gets you the Bladesinging feature: Extra Attack! Now you have options: use booming blade for locking your enemy in or attack twice. Booming blade also increases. So, if you do find yourself with another enemy near you then with this extra attack you could attack both for 3d8 each (plus sneak attack on one if able). This is why Green-Flame Blade is useless: you'd only attack once and the other guy just gets 1d8+2.
Booming Blade option is an extra 1d8 while going the two attacks option is extra 2d8 compared to before. Personally, I think locking your enemy in with Booming Blade is better than the second attack but there will be situations where you just need to deal more damage. If you have advantage always go for the second attack because with elven accuracy you get more chances for a critical with the second attack and critting a 3d8 is nifty.
You will want these classes to progress evenly, to get 10 levels in each. The levels in Rogue increase Sneak Attack to 5d6 and the levels in Wizard get you higher level slots for upcasting Shadow Blade. At level 10 you get 5th level slots which bump it to 4d8. With 2 attacks that's 8d8+5d6 damage, and if you Crit... Ouch.
Future ASI/Feat options should consider CON and INT increases. The INT will improve your AC and spells and CON improves your health. You can consider Warcaster so you can focus on the two attacks and if the enemy tries to get away you can use Booming Blade for your Attack of Opportunity: if they continue to move away, extra damage! Warcaster wll also help you maitain Shadow Blade. You'll get 3 more ASI/Feats and +2 CON, +2 INT and Warcaster seems a decent spread. If you get hit that's a +3 to your concentration check and advantage to maintain the blade.
This is not the most optimal but I believe it will be fun, thematic and has decent damage output with some versatility and non-combat utility too.
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Awesome, thanks much!
A small tip on this: if you have at least a 55% chance to hit before advantage (i.e. you can hit with a d20 roll as low as 10), it's actually better on average not to Sneak Attack if you land your first attack. Rolling 3 dice, the odds of scoring a critical hit on the second attack (14.26%) outweigh the odds of missing (9.11% or less).
This is also possible without Elven Accuracy but the extra die really lowers the bar for when that strategy makes sense.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
I'm not a math whiz but when both attacks are basically rolling 3 d20 are not the chance of critting the same? Why would it be better to use sneak on the second attack - why is the odds of critting higher on a second attack than a first when you're rolling the same for each?
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Sorry, I could've been a bit clearer. When I said "if you land your first attack" I was assuming you scored a regular hit but not a critical hit on your first attack.
At that point you have a choice: take your guaranteed 3d6 Sneak Attack damage on the first attack, or gamble on the second. Since you have a higher chance of scoring a crit and doubling your Sneak Attack damage than missing and getting nothing, the second hit will do better than 3d6 on average.
Of course, if you score a crit on the first hit you should take that unless you're sure it's overkill and there's a different enemy you could attack. You can't do better than a crit so there's no sense in gambling on the second attack.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Look at oath of the crown paladin, they literally get an ability to challenge opponents to an honorable dual as well as a spell compelled dual. Think this will fit well with the feel you described. (Think they are in sword coast adventure guide)
If you're not married to staying away from fighter, I'm playing a fighter-rogue multiclass as a duelist and it feels great. Currently level 9, 4 in swashbuckler rogue and 5 in battlemaster fighter. Though he's more of a gladiator/show fighter than an honorable duelist. I chose riposte, goading attack, and feinting attack as my maneuvers.
I know I am late to the party here but the Martial Adept feat with Parry and Riposte also works really well for this build, allowing for either a reduction in damage or a free attack if you get missed by an enemy
I have always thought of building one of my Bards as a duelist. A sharp tongue gets him into the dual and his fencing skills gets him out of it.
I agree that you will probably use one ASI for +2 ability score and another one for a feat, probably with another +1 ability score.
He has spells but he doesn't have to use them during a dual. I enjoy playing Bards so this is probably not an optimal build. You'd spend plenty of points building Charisma which won't help you during a dual where you cast no spells.
You may consider this a violation of your "no spells" rule, but the College of Valor allows you to use your Bardic Inspiration capability for combat, and that isn't a spell. Other Colleges also allow the use of Bardic Inspiration for some particular thing. I chose College of Valor because they get armor and martial weapons, so that sort of thing might factor into your idea of a build.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
If you want to go full flavor (and you don't care about optimizing), I would say a dexterity-based Battle Master Fighter is perfect. No spells, but with your rapier you do a lot of cool tricks, like tripping them prone, disarming them, and many, many others.
The only reason I said that about optimizing is because a true fencer only has 1 rapier, and no offhand weapon, and no shield. You'll be nerfing yourself on purpose because a shield would give you +2 AC with no downside. Also, if you take the Dual Wielder Feat you can fight with two rapiers, or a rapier and a dagger, and get a bonus action attack with your off hand.
If you're flexible with not fighting exactly like a fencer that you can optimize, or at least not intentionally nerf yourself. You won't be able to do two-weapon fighting (with a rapier) until you can take the feat. This means level 4 if you're an Elf, or right away if you're a human variant.