It seems fitting for an assassin or the offhand for a dual wielding character, but stat wise any other bladed weapon looks better. Only thing I see that it has going for it is that it's a simple weapon, but I was hoping to find a reason to use it on an assassin. If it's simply outclassed, does anyone have any homebrew rules to make it better?
Special things a dagger can bring to the table, which a character might want to take advantage of:
Melee "Finesse" weapons are a small group: Dagger, Shortsword, Rapier, Scimitar, Whip. Of those, the Dagger is (1) the only Simple weapon, and (2) the only Thrown weapon.
A rogue in particular cares about melee finesse weapons, as they are the only melee weapons that can be used for Sneak Attack. A basic rogue is proficient in only three Finesse weapons: Rapier, Shortsword, and Dagger. Given a choice between them, the Rogue might prefer the more flexible option that can be thrown, given that weapon damage die is a very small part of a Rogue's total damage per round. Keep in mind also that of this list of Finesse weapons, only the Shortsword and Dagger are Light and able to be used with basic Two Weapon Fighting, which is one of the Rogue's few ways to get more than one chance to hit per round.
A dagger is a very small object which most DMs will allow you to (try to) conceal on your person. Not only all of the other Finesse weapons, but probably all other weapons (other than Darts?) are probably too big to conceal in normal clothing? Even if not concealed, many areas might let you walk around with a dagger which would frown on or confiscate larger weapons.
Compared versus Darts, a Dagger gives you the option of using Strength for attacks and defense, and the option of using it in melee if an enemy gets within 5 feet of you.
There is no advantage to using a dagger in the offhand over a light or finesse weapon that deals more damage from a purely "roll for damage" perspective. If you can wield two shortswords, then they're simply more effective when it comes to hurting enemies.
The main advantage that daggers have is that they're easily carried and/or concealed. Every character should have a dagger as a backup weapon, but as in real life, if you're going into a fight then bigger weapons are better.
If you're playing an Assassin Rogue, however, the difference between d4 damage and d6 damage is going to become fairly meaningless at higher levels. When you're sneak attacking, from level 4 onwards you'll be dealing d4+3d6+Dex for a dagger for an average of 13+Dex damage, or d6+3d6+dex with a short sword for an average of 14+dex. Not exactly a significant increase, and certainly not enough to make it worth choosing a d6 damage weapon over a dagger if you want to play with knives.
Another point in favor of daggers: daggers are cheap.
You can buy five daggers for the price of one shortsword. Four of those daggers can be lost on attempts to throw and you still have a weapon to fight with, on only a single point of average damage off the shortsword. You can break daggers, lose daggers, throw daggers, blow daggers (up), or anything else, and you're always only 2gp away from a new one. They're also everywhere, being a dirt common simple weapon it'd be very difficult for a DM to justify not being for sale anywhere you can buy dang near anything else.
Being a dagger specialist means your chief weapons are cheap, plentiful, ubiquitous, unremarkable, and easily disposable. Those are very cool things for a number of different builds.
IMHO, the dagger is one of the best basic weapons in the game. Every character I make carries at least 1 dagger in addition to their other weapons. I think a better question would be if there is any reason not to carry a dagger.
Questions like this tend to come from wargamers and number crunchers more than hardcore narrative wonks. It's easy to get lost in the math until you start playing, especially if you don't get to play often. Mechanically, daggers are versatile (again, and I HATE that this is a thing - versatile, not versatile, i.e. useful for many things and in many ways) but deal lower damage than most any other more specialized option. When you're plotting your best mechanical combos, it's easy to forget that sometimes you'll need a small, handy tool blade for a bunch of assorted tasks when actually playing.
It's the same reason I often advise people take handaxes for their "Any Simple Weapon" choice, even if they have absolutely no intention of using that handaxe in combat. It's a handaxe - you can chop faces with it, or you can also chop wood, windows, chests, locks, branches and vines, use the backside of the axe head as a makeshift hammer, use it as the steel in flint-and-steel...
People have been going camping with handaxes for hundreds and hundreds of years for reasons. Grab yusself a gol-danged hatchet.
Questions like this tend to come from wargamers and number crunchers more than hardcore narrative wonks. It's easy to get lost in the math until you start playing, especially if you don't get to play often. Mechanically, daggers are versatile (again, and I HATE that this is a thing - versatile, not versatile, i.e. useful for many things and in many ways) but deal lower damage than most any other more specialized option. When you're plotting your best mechanical combos, it's easy to forget that sometimes you'll need a small, handy tool blade for a bunch of assorted tasks when actually playing.
It's the same reason I often advise people take handaxes for their "Any Simple Weapon" choice, even if they have absolutely no intention of using that handaxe in combat. It's a handaxe - you can chop faces with it, or you can also chop wood, windows, chests, locks, branches and vines, use the backside of the axe head as a makeshift hammer, use it as the steel in flint-and-steel...
People have been going camping with handaxes for hundreds and hundreds of years for reasons. Grab yusself a gol-danged hatchet.
So, in other words, all the same reason I always carry a knife on me everywhere I am legally allowed to. I’m not gonna attack anyone with it, but I’ll be dipped if I don’t pull it out at least once a day for some utility reason. Even if it’s just to open a letter.
Something that is probably rarely thought about in roleplaying is the difference it makes in social interactions whether you are heavily armed and armored or have no visible weapons.
It depends on the campaign you are in as well. An adventure based in a city might make daggers and quarterstaff the logical weapons to be walking around with.
The kingdom in which the campaign I am DMing is currently set has specific laws for cities. The only weapons that don’t have to be peace-bonded are daggers, and in some cities the only weapons allowed to be carried are daggers, staves, and 1d6 swords.
In a great many "social" situations, nothing larger than a dagger is acceptable to carry. Sometimes carrying even a dagger would be a breach of etiquette, so it's nice that daggers are so easy to hide. (It also helps to have a dagger that doubles as a spell focus, if you can get one.)
In the 1700’s and even later, swords were fashion statements for the rich so it could also depend on the other clothes you are wearing. A beggar with a sword will attract attention, a noble not so much.
For an assassin, a dagger is better than a rapier because it represents two chances to hit instead of one (assuming you take advantage of TWF). If you don't land an attack on your first turn as an assassin, you're underperforming in terms of damage output compared to the other rogue archetypes.
A dagger is better than a shortsword/scimitar because it can be thrown, which gives you more flexibility when engaging the enemy.
If you take the Dual Wielder feat and know that you can always get into melee before you engage, then the dagger is strictly inferior compared to dual wielding rapiers.
If you take the Crossbow Expert feat and know that you can always engage at range, then the dagger is strictly inferior to a hand crossbow.
All of these statements are made with the assumption that you're a pure rogue.
Can confirm: playing an artificer in new campaign, demonstrated my Returning javelin in a few pregame one-shots. Now everybody wants a Returning something-or-other - the monk wants darts, the fighter wants another javelin, and even the rogue with a Bracer of Flying Flippin' Daggers is eyeing my infusion. It's a thing.
If you want to sneak a dagger into an area where you're not allowed to have weapons, the DM will let you do a sleight of hand check to see if you succeed (he might set the DC high like 20 if the guards checking you for weapons are quite capable). If you want to sneak a short sword or a rapier into an area where you're not allowed to have weapons, you will fail.
They're small, light, easily concealed and throwable.
Cheap, and exceedingly common as well. In terms of rarity, at any given point of campaign power progression, you're more likely to find a +1 dagger earlier than a +1 anything else.
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It seems fitting for an assassin or the offhand for a dual wielding character, but stat wise any other bladed weapon looks better. Only thing I see that it has going for it is that it's a simple weapon, but I was hoping to find a reason to use it on an assassin. If it's simply outclassed, does anyone have any homebrew rules to make it better?
The dagger is super versatile. Points against the dagger:
It's just a d4 of piercing damage. Not great for damage.
Points for the dagger:
Simple weapon. Everyone can use one.
Finesse. The only simple weapon that you can use with DEX.
Thrown. This weapon has a decent range, and because of the thrown/versatile properties, can be thrown with either DEX or STR.
Light. Enables two-weapon fighting (not the fighting style, but the off-hand strike) because it's super light.
Practical. You can carry about a million daggers without looking armed, but it's hard not to notice a rapier/shortsword sheathed on your person.
... In other words, in terms of pure flexibility, IMO the dagger is unmatched.
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They're small, light, easily concealed and throwable.
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Special things a dagger can bring to the table, which a character might want to take advantage of:
All told, I think that daggers are well balanced.
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There is no advantage to using a dagger in the offhand over a light or finesse weapon that deals more damage from a purely "roll for damage" perspective. If you can wield two shortswords, then they're simply more effective when it comes to hurting enemies.
The main advantage that daggers have is that they're easily carried and/or concealed. Every character should have a dagger as a backup weapon, but as in real life, if you're going into a fight then bigger weapons are better.
If you're playing an Assassin Rogue, however, the difference between d4 damage and d6 damage is going to become fairly meaningless at higher levels. When you're sneak attacking, from level 4 onwards you'll be dealing d4+3d6+Dex for a dagger for an average of 13+Dex damage, or d6+3d6+dex with a short sword for an average of 14+dex. Not exactly a significant increase, and certainly not enough to make it worth choosing a d6 damage weapon over a dagger if you want to play with knives.
Another point in favor of daggers: daggers are cheap.
You can buy five daggers for the price of one shortsword. Four of those daggers can be lost on attempts to throw and you still have a weapon to fight with, on only a single point of average damage off the shortsword. You can break daggers, lose daggers, throw daggers, blow daggers (up), or anything else, and you're always only 2gp away from a new one. They're also everywhere, being a dirt common simple weapon it'd be very difficult for a DM to justify not being for sale anywhere you can buy dang near anything else.
Being a dagger specialist means your chief weapons are cheap, plentiful, ubiquitous, unremarkable, and easily disposable. Those are very cool things for a number of different builds.
Please do not contact or message me.
IMHO, the dagger is one of the best basic weapons in the game. Every character I make carries at least 1 dagger in addition to their other weapons. I think a better question would be if there is any reason not to carry a dagger.
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Questions like this tend to come from wargamers and number crunchers more than hardcore narrative wonks. It's easy to get lost in the math until you start playing, especially if you don't get to play often. Mechanically, daggers are versatile (again, and I HATE that this is a thing - versatile, not versatile, i.e. useful for many things and in many ways) but deal lower damage than most any other more specialized option. When you're plotting your best mechanical combos, it's easy to forget that sometimes you'll need a small, handy tool blade for a bunch of assorted tasks when actually playing.
It's the same reason I often advise people take handaxes for their "Any Simple Weapon" choice, even if they have absolutely no intention of using that handaxe in combat. It's a handaxe - you can chop faces with it, or you can also chop wood, windows, chests, locks, branches and vines, use the backside of the axe head as a makeshift hammer, use it as the steel in flint-and-steel...
People have been going camping with handaxes for hundreds and hundreds of years for reasons. Grab yusself a gol-danged hatchet.
Please do not contact or message me.
So, in other words, all the same reason I always carry a knife on me everywhere I am legally allowed to. I’m not gonna attack anyone with it, but I’ll be dipped if I don’t pull it out at least once a day for some utility reason. Even if it’s just to open a letter.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
In my game, it could help if you are using a dagger for RP and then receive Inspiration, which is better than d4.
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Something that is probably rarely thought about in roleplaying is the difference it makes in social interactions whether you are heavily armed and armored or have no visible weapons.
It depends on the campaign you are in as well. An adventure based in a city might make daggers and quarterstaff the logical weapons to be walking around with.
The kingdom in which the campaign I am DMing is currently set has specific laws for cities. The only weapons that don’t have to be peace-bonded are daggers, and in some cities the only weapons allowed to be carried are daggers, staves, and 1d6 swords.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
In a great many "social" situations, nothing larger than a dagger is acceptable to carry. Sometimes carrying even a dagger would be a breach of etiquette, so it's nice that daggers are so easy to hide. (It also helps to have a dagger that doubles as a spell focus, if you can get one.)
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In the 1700’s and even later, swords were fashion statements for the rich so it could also depend on the other clothes you are wearing. A beggar with a sword will attract attention, a noble not so much.
For an assassin, a dagger is better than a rapier because it represents two chances to hit instead of one (assuming you take advantage of TWF). If you don't land an attack on your first turn as an assassin, you're underperforming in terms of damage output compared to the other rogue archetypes.
A dagger is better than a shortsword/scimitar because it can be thrown, which gives you more flexibility when engaging the enemy.
If you take the Dual Wielder feat and know that you can always get into melee before you engage, then the dagger is strictly inferior compared to dual wielding rapiers.
If you take the Crossbow Expert feat and know that you can always engage at range, then the dagger is strictly inferior to a hand crossbow.
All of these statements are made with the assumption that you're a pure rogue.
The dagger can also, if you know a friendly artificer, be infused, to where it returns to you after being thrown. If you do go that route.
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Can confirm: playing an artificer in new campaign, demonstrated my Returning javelin in a few pregame one-shots. Now everybody wants a Returning something-or-other - the monk wants darts, the fighter wants another javelin, and even the rogue with a Bracer of Flying Flippin' Daggers is eyeing my infusion. It's a thing.
Please do not contact or message me.
If you want to sneak a dagger into an area where you're not allowed to have weapons, the DM will let you do a sleight of hand check to see if you succeed (he might set the DC high like 20 if the guards checking you for weapons are quite capable). If you want to sneak a short sword or a rapier into an area where you're not allowed to have weapons, you will fail.
Cheap, and exceedingly common as well. In terms of rarity, at any given point of campaign power progression, you're more likely to find a +1 dagger earlier than a +1 anything else.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.