Levirocks do t get salty this thread is trying to find a actually practical use for this spell, I DM and I play and I am looking at the spells worth from both sides. And yes all those spells can do things to impress people who don't see magic often, prestidigition can do a number of things like some sparks, changing things sent, taste, make things hot or cold, making large images of things and even creating small items or devices, minor illusion can make dancing holograms of anything, duridcraft can make flowers and plants grow or tell you the weather, and Thaumaturgy can make you look huge and scary makes candles and candles turn on and off and make doors and windows slam open and closed.
So think what would people think would be more impressive, making a big chunk of matarel OR fantastical magic that can make the person question what they see! Awhile back I played a entertainer bard who used minor illusion and prestidigition to make it appare like there was a whole band with me while I tell stories.
I'm not getting salty, you're the one who is immediately shutting down any suggestions anyone makes.
I personally think that a king would be more impressed by a giant chunk of metal that comes out of nowhere, even if it doesn't last, more than making a flower appear, or opening a window.
These are all uses. Maybe they're not useful to you, but you don't have to immediately shut down any suggestion anyone makes and insulting their intelligence. I suggest have this thread where people share ideas. If they break rules, correct them, but don't make people feel stupid. Let ideas pile up, don't comment on how useful that is to you, as anything can be of use to different people.
I don't want to personally attack you, you're just being rude, and I suggest you ease off a bit.
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In all seriousness (and trying to not be too snarky), if the spell is useless then it is a failure of imagination, not a failure of the spell.
…so far still SUPER useless, as I said before every time this spell CAN do something there is another spell or ability that is much less costly than a level 5 slot
OK, now I am trying to be snarky. I don't think you are really in this thread to learn about the spell.
The spell is a Swiss Army Knife (or perhaps a Green Lantern Ring). Sure, a few of the things it can do are duplicated by other spells, but those other spells only do one thing. For example, you said you don't need rope to climb down a cliff because you can use the fly or spider walk spells. That's true. However you can't use fly or spider walk to moor a ship or lash down a cargo or restrain a prisoner or allow 50 people to climb down the cliff.
If spells like creation don't seem useful (or haven't actually been useful at your table in the past) then I think you need to look at the imaginations of the players and at the adversarial attitude of the game masters of those tables.
Personally I think the #1 use of this spell would be to duplicate a specific object. Note that there are no restrictions in the spell description on how specific the object can be or how well you know the details of it aside from "the object must be of a form and material that you have seen before." You can make a fake version of the king's crown or whatever, give it to the Rogue to make the swap, and you both have some time to get out of there before anyone notices. Let the bad guys get their hands on a fake copy of the Book of Ultimate MacGuffinness and spend a day getting away from them before they realize something is wrong. Duplicate the Headpiece to the Staff of Ra (which you lost) and then use it. Duplicate the head guard's keyring long enough to use it and/or make permanent copies of the keys on it.
How about creating a block of stone directly in on top of a teleportation circle or in front of an interdimensional gate? Nobody is getting through (at least not alive) for the next 12 hours. You could also use the spell to block a regular entrance of course.
A spellcaster who knows some alchemy and this spell would be scary. How large a chunk of pure Potassium have they seen before? What about Arsenic? On the sillier side, what's the largest joint they've ever rolled (it's "vegetable matter", right?)
Creation also goes well with the 6th level School of Illusions ability called Malleable Illusions. Anything you make with this spell can be turned into anything else you could make with the spell as an action for the duration of the spell. You can change it from a rope to a raft to a lantern to a crown. If the king puts the fake crown on their head and you don't like them, turn it into a boulder or a pipe organ or something. Lots of flexibility there.
Personally I think the #1 use of this spell would be to duplicate a specific object. Note that there are no restrictions in the spell description on how specific the object can be or how well you know the details of it aside from "the object must be of a form and material that you have seen before." You can make a fake version of the king's crown or whatever, give it to the Rogue to make the swap, and you both have some time to get out of there before anyone notices. Let the bad guys get their hands on a fake copy of the Book of Ultimate MacGuffinness and spend a day getting away from them before they realize something is wrong. Duplicate the Headpiece to the Staff of Ra (which you lost) and then use it. Duplicate the head guard's keyring long enough to use it and/or make permanent copies of the keys on it.
How about creating a block of stone directly in on top of a teleportation circle or in front of an interdimensional gate? Nobody is getting through (at least not alive) for the next 12 hours. You could also use the spell to block a regular entrance of course.
A spellcaster who knows some alchemy and this spell would be scary. How large a chunk of pure Potassium have they seen before? What about Arsenic? On the sillier side, what's the largest joint they've ever rolled (it's "vegetable matter", right?)
Creation also goes well with the 6th level School of Illusions ability called Malleable Illusions. Anything you make with this spell can be turned into anything else you could make with the spell as an action for the duration of the spell. You can change it from a rope to a raft to a lantern to a crown. If the king puts the fake crown on their head and you don't like them, turn it into a boulder or a pipe organ or something. Lots of flexibility there.
creative but ultimately useless, if your going to steel a crown just take it or get a proper fake made because in 10 mins (if it has gems) to a hour the gig is up and you have all the kings guard looking for you, also its really easy to tell if you use it to make a magic item because it won't do anything and a creature with true sight or detect magic will be able to tell right away. for the whole "lets block the circle" who's to stop someone on your side from just MOVING the block, and if your doing to waste a level 5 spell for that just dispell or destroy the circle! also when it comes to making poisons its not actually poison and if it does work poisons its only going to last so long and then when it stops existing the poison runs out.
the last use with Malleable Illusions but...creation while a illusion spell does not create a illusion, it creates a thing that exists for a very short then poofs. so far in all cases this spell is just not worth a 5th level slot, maybe if it was level 2 but not 5th, there are other lower level spells or just items you can pick up that will do a better job OR sidestep whatever problems this spell can slove "oh we need lots of rope to climb this 100 foot wall" almost every caster "spider climb" druids: "I can into a size large spider and fairy you guys up and down" OR "tons of spell casters" hey look, you can fly now"
Aside from the myriad uses this spell has for creating exactly the right object for a specific situation, there is one point I think gets generally overlooked. A 5x5 cube of lead would weigh about 88,500 lbs. A 5x5 cube of platinum would weigh almost twice that. How much if it were the supernaturally heavy material Adamantium: twice that again? If you upcast it by 1 level, multiply that by 8, 2 levels would be x27, 3 would be x64, 4 would be x125 (though at that level Wish can make something even heavier). So, with one minute and one 5th level spell slot you can create a ~300,000 lb cube of Adamantium 20 or 30 feet in the air above something; whereupon rather instantaneously that something is going to be either dust or goo.
Random example:
"Oy, Captain, look! I recognize that flag... that is the most feared pirate ship on the Sword Coast! We can't possibly outrun them; they will be on us in within the hour - we're DOOMED!" The party caster gets up from his game of dice with the crew, tells the paladin to watch his beer, casts fly, and takes off. A few minutes later, he lands back on the deck and nonchalantly states the pirate ship won't be a problem any more and asks if it is his turn yet. The crew gives a relieved cheer as the lookout in the crow's nest confirms the pirate ship is sinking.
Later, the party confronts the BBEG - the heavily armed and armored former captain of the erstwhile most feared pirate ship on the Sword Coast, but now merely captain of the most feared lifeboat dinghy on the sword coast. The bard/rogue makes a deception check to convince the BBEG that he clearly has the upper hand and should explain his dastardly plan in detail because the party was too dumb to figure it out; meanwhile, the caster inconspicuously hides himself behind the barbarian and casts invisibility. The BBEG's monologuing is abruptly cut short a moment later as a 5'x5' adamantium anvil appears from nowhere and lands on the formerly BBEG with appropriate sound effects, revealing the outline of the nearby invisible party caster as he is now covered in liquified BBEG.
In summary: Creation is a spell that has countless uses because of its twofold versatility. On the one hand, you have nearly limitless options to create whatever specific object you need to overcome your current challenge. On the other hand, how many challenges are there that can't be overcome with the judicious application of a 200,000 lb anvil that appears in midair at a moment's notice.
It's a versatile spell all right. But I have to ask myself, would I ever prepare it as a 5th level spell slot to get what this spell will give me? If I am picking a new spell at level up would I choose this one? If I got a scroll with this spell would I take the trouble and expense to scribe it, or just keep the scroll for that once-in-a-blue-moon time when I can think of a use for it?
Dropping Heavy Objects is cool and all, but 10 combat rounds is hardly "a moment's notice". The DM is really going to have to like the idea if I'm going to kill much of anything with it. If they don't want me to get away with it, they can require me to make a Hit check, the difficulty of which is entirely up to them. The damage I do is entirely based on DM's Whimsey. There are no rules for how much damage a falling object does by weight. The closest you get to flat out killing someone with a single spell is with Power Word Kill. That's a 9th level spell if the DM needs a guideline on the relative power of a 5th level spell.
I tend to agree with ProxyJames on this one. I don't think the spell is Totally Useless, but I'm thinking the uses are few and far between. I sure wouldn't want it as a Sorcerer. I wouldn't tend to prepare it as a Wizard even if I had it. I don't really know what an Artificer could do with it I'm not familiar with the class. A Forge Domain Cleric might be able to make something of it I guess.
Levirocks do t get salty this thread is trying to find a actually practical use for this spell, I DM and I play and I am looking at the spells worth from both sides. And yes all those spells can do things to impress people who don't see magic often, prestidigition can do a number of things like some sparks, changing things sent, taste, make things hot or cold, making large images of things and even creating small items or devices, minor illusion can make dancing holograms of anything, duridcraft can make flowers and plants grow or tell you the weather, and Thaumaturgy can make you look huge and scary makes candles and candles turn on and off and make doors and windows slam open and closed.
So think what would people think would be more impressive, making a big chunk of matarel OR fantastical magic that can make the person question what they see! Awhile back I played a entertainer bard who used minor illusion and prestidigition to make it appare like there was a whole band with me while I tell stories.
I'm not getting salty, you're the one who is immediately shutting down any suggestions anyone makes.
I personally think that a king would be more impressed by a giant chunk of metal that comes out of nowhere, even if it doesn't last, more than making a flower appear, or opening a window.
These are all uses. Maybe they're not useful to you, but you don't have to immediately shut down any suggestion anyone makes and insulting their intelligence. I suggest have this thread where people share ideas. If they break rules, correct them, but don't make people feel stupid. Let ideas pile up, don't comment on how useful that is to you, as anything can be of use to different people.
I don't want to personally attack you, you're just being rude, and I suggest you ease off a bit.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
OK, now I am trying to be snarky. I don't think you are really in this thread to learn about the spell.
The spell is a Swiss Army Knife (or perhaps a Green Lantern Ring). Sure, a few of the things it can do are duplicated by other spells, but those other spells only do one thing. For example, you said you don't need rope to climb down a cliff because you can use the fly or spider walk spells. That's true. However you can't use fly or spider walk to moor a ship or lash down a cargo or restrain a prisoner or allow 50 people to climb down the cliff.
If spells like creation don't seem useful (or haven't actually been useful at your table in the past) then I think you need to look at the imaginations of the players and at the adversarial attitude of the game masters of those tables.
Personally I think the #1 use of this spell would be to duplicate a specific object. Note that there are no restrictions in the spell description on how specific the object can be or how well you know the details of it aside from "the object must be of a form and material that you have seen before." You can make a fake version of the king's crown or whatever, give it to the Rogue to make the swap, and you both have some time to get out of there before anyone notices. Let the bad guys get their hands on a fake copy of the Book of Ultimate MacGuffinness and spend a day getting away from them before they realize something is wrong. Duplicate the Headpiece to the Staff of Ra (which you lost) and then use it. Duplicate the head guard's keyring long enough to use it and/or make permanent copies of the keys on it.
How about creating a block of stone directly in on top of a teleportation circle or in front of an interdimensional gate? Nobody is getting through (at least not alive) for the next 12 hours. You could also use the spell to block a regular entrance of course.
A spellcaster who knows some alchemy and this spell would be scary. How large a chunk of pure Potassium have they seen before? What about Arsenic? On the sillier side, what's the largest joint they've ever rolled (it's "vegetable matter", right?)
Creation also goes well with the 6th level School of Illusions ability called Malleable Illusions. Anything you make with this spell can be turned into anything else you could make with the spell as an action for the duration of the spell. You can change it from a rope to a raft to a lantern to a crown. If the king puts the fake crown on their head and you don't like them, turn it into a boulder or a pipe organ or something. Lots of flexibility there.
creative but ultimately useless, if your going to steel a crown just take it or get a proper fake made because in 10 mins (if it has gems) to a hour the gig is up and you have all the kings guard looking for you, also its really easy to tell if you use it to make a magic item because it won't do anything and a creature with true sight or detect magic will be able to tell right away.
for the whole "lets block the circle" who's to stop someone on your side from just MOVING the block, and if your doing to waste a level 5 spell for that just dispell or destroy the circle! also when it comes to making poisons its not actually poison and if it does work poisons its only going to last so long and then when it stops existing the poison runs out.
the last use with Malleable Illusions but...creation while a illusion spell does not create a illusion, it creates a thing that exists for a very short then poofs. so far in all cases this spell is just not worth a 5th level slot, maybe if it was level 2 but not 5th, there are other lower level spells or just items you can pick up that will do a better job OR sidestep whatever problems this spell can slove "oh we need lots of rope to climb this 100 foot wall" almost every caster "spider climb" druids: "I can into a size large spider and fairy you guys up and down" OR "tons of spell casters" hey look, you can fly now"
Aside from the myriad uses this spell has for creating exactly the right object for a specific situation, there is one point I think gets generally overlooked. A 5x5 cube of lead would weigh about 88,500 lbs. A 5x5 cube of platinum would weigh almost twice that. How much if it were the supernaturally heavy material Adamantium: twice that again? If you upcast it by 1 level, multiply that by 8, 2 levels would be x27, 3 would be x64, 4 would be x125 (though at that level Wish can make something even heavier). So, with one minute and one 5th level spell slot you can create a ~300,000 lb cube of Adamantium 20 or 30 feet in the air above something; whereupon rather instantaneously that something is going to be either dust or goo.
Random example:
"Oy, Captain, look! I recognize that flag... that is the most feared pirate ship on the Sword Coast! We can't possibly outrun them; they will be on us in within the hour - we're DOOMED!" The party caster gets up from his game of dice with the crew, tells the paladin to watch his beer, casts fly, and takes off. A few minutes later, he lands back on the deck and nonchalantly states the pirate ship won't be a problem any more and asks if it is his turn yet. The crew gives a relieved cheer as the lookout in the crow's nest confirms the pirate ship is sinking.
Later, the party confronts the BBEG - the heavily armed and armored former captain of the erstwhile most feared pirate ship on the Sword Coast, but now merely captain of the most feared lifeboat dinghy on the sword coast. The bard/rogue makes a deception check to convince the BBEG that he clearly has the upper hand and should explain his dastardly plan in detail because the party was too dumb to figure it out; meanwhile, the caster inconspicuously hides himself behind the barbarian and casts invisibility. The BBEG's monologuing is abruptly cut short a moment later as a 5'x5' adamantium anvil appears from nowhere and lands on the formerly BBEG with appropriate sound effects, revealing the outline of the nearby invisible party caster as he is now covered in liquified BBEG.
In summary: Creation is a spell that has countless uses because of its twofold versatility. On the one hand, you have nearly limitless options to create whatever specific object you need to overcome your current challenge. On the other hand, how many challenges are there that can't be overcome with the judicious application of a 200,000 lb anvil that appears in midair at a moment's notice.
It's a versatile spell all right. But I have to ask myself, would I ever prepare it as a 5th level spell slot to get what this spell will give me? If I am picking a new spell at level up would I choose this one? If I got a scroll with this spell would I take the trouble and expense to scribe it, or just keep the scroll for that once-in-a-blue-moon time when I can think of a use for it?
Dropping Heavy Objects is cool and all, but 10 combat rounds is hardly "a moment's notice". The DM is really going to have to like the idea if I'm going to kill much of anything with it. If they don't want me to get away with it, they can require me to make a Hit check, the difficulty of which is entirely up to them. The damage I do is entirely based on DM's Whimsey. There are no rules for how much damage a falling object does by weight. The closest you get to flat out killing someone with a single spell is with Power Word Kill. That's a 9th level spell if the DM needs a guideline on the relative power of a 5th level spell.
I tend to agree with ProxyJames on this one. I don't think the spell is Totally Useless, but I'm thinking the uses are few and far between. I sure wouldn't want it as a Sorcerer. I wouldn't tend to prepare it as a Wizard even if I had it. I don't really know what an Artificer could do with it I'm not familiar with the class. A Forge Domain Cleric might be able to make something of it I guess.
<Insert clever signature here>
Since we're coming on Halloween...
25 cubic foot pumpkin (9th level)
*Drops mic*