I'm just thinking that they are changing the game to be inclusive to everyone, with the changing of alignments for humanoid races and the dropping of elves only for the Bladesinger class. That if they put out a setting that players that only play martial classes cannot enjoy, doesn't seem to be inclusive does it?
Inclusivity? You're really going there? Mate this is not racism, sexism or ableism we're talking about here. That's just demeaning to real inclusivity. That they needed to change the alignment for non white skinned humanoids is only normal, the way it was, was a bad remnant of the times the game was made in. The way they handled the Bladesinger class at first was better than it is now, it used to be DM approval for non elves. I also want to point out they didn't do it for the Batllerager, that one is still Dwarves only. Inclusivity; don't use it when it cheapens the meaning.
1. Specialized Sourcebooks won't sell as well. That's not hard to grasp. If only full casters get something from the sourcebook it will sell less than when every class gets something.
2. Are we pretending now that non-full casters not getting subclasses was the problem, and not that the UA was bad in the iteration it was and there was not enough time to fix everything broken?
I'm just thinking that they are changing the game to be inclusive to everyone, with the changing of alignments for humanoid races and the dropping of elves only for the Bladesinger class. That if they put out a setting that players that only play martial classes cannot enjoy, doesn't seem to be inclusive does it?
That's still a monumental assumption based on the fact that the UA only included caster options. Other UAs have done so without the uproar. We know the school has security forces and stuff like that, why would anyone assume there's no place for martials in Strixhaven? It's just a really big leap based on nothing that crippled some intensely interesting ideas with far-reaching implications before they had a shot.
1. Specialized Sourcebooks won't sell as well. That's not hard to grasp. If only full casters get something from the sourcebook it will sell less than when every class gets something.
2. Are we pretending now that non-full casters not getting subclasses was the problem, and not that the UA was bad in the iteration it was and there was not enough time to fix everything broken?
1. Perhaps what you're referencing would sell less but most books are specialized in setting and content. I don't see that being that big of an issue. Most of their books have specialized player content that fits that setting/campaign. In this case that would be all casters *shrug*. In fact most books are specialized when it comes to player options (which is all this UA was) with the exception of the core books.
2. We aren't pretending. We are responding to people saying that was their issue with it. Balance in DND is always game by game based. If you ended up with martial classes in this setting and they were struggling vs subclasses and is ruining their fun throw them a bone. Isn't that was DMs do? Balance the game to their party and make sure everyone is having fun. It isn't a prewritten campaign so the difficulty is entirely up to the DM.
We also know wizards has a habit of releasing stronger UA and nerfing it for live as they have stated it's easier to scale back then buff things. I think people legitimately didn't like the concept and had less to do with balance as you said there wasn't enough time to test it. We've also heard from them (WotC) that people didn't like the fact it took away the distinctness of the classes. So personally I think the balance aspect is a non-issue and would have been the easiest to address had people liked everything else about it.
It is one of those things that we can guess at till the cows come home. The only thing we know is that the feedback the WotC received was overwhelmingly negative and that it was dropped. Regardless of why, it was shut down by the community and it is gone, just like the Mystic.
I'm just thinking that they are changing the game to be inclusive to everyone, with the changing of alignments for humanoid races and the dropping of elves only for the Bladesinger class. That if they put out a setting that players that only play martial classes cannot enjoy, doesn't seem to be inclusive does it?
Inclusivity? You're really going there? Mate this is not racism, sexism or ableism we're talking about here. That's just demeaning to real inclusivity. That they needed to change the alignment for non white skinned humanoids is only normal, the way it was, was a bad remnant of the times the game was made in. The way they handled the Bladesinger class at first was better than it is now, it used to be DM approval for non elves. I also want to point out they didn't do it for the Batllerager, that one is still Dwarves only. Inclusivity; don't use it when it cheapens the meaning.
Wow I didn't mean to trigger you there my apologies, but you must know that there are players that only play melee classes as that is what they like. Inclusivity is about anything that keeps some out regardless of the reason I was not trying to push racism in this post, I just mentioned the opening of Bladesinger to non elves, I didn't mention a Battlerager due to the fact I do not care for that subclass and I did not even think about it at the time.
1. Specialized Sourcebooks won't sell as well. That's not hard to grasp. If only full casters get something from the sourcebook it will sell less than when every class gets something.
2. Are we pretending now that non-full casters not getting subclasses was the problem, and not that the UA was bad in the iteration it was and there was not enough time to fix everything broken?
For me it was both honestly....the lack of martial options came at a bad time when the conversation was heavy in the "Casters are much better than Martials" realm....it still is now of course but it was then too.
The 2nd point was more of why it got axed IMO....it was in awful shape and needed a lot of work. I think they were workshopping the idea for multiple class subclasses but seems that they kinda shit the bed a little bit with the presentation and may have soured the idea moving forward.
Honestly I hope that isnt the case as I found them very interesting but it was that rough.
It is one of those things that we can guess at till the cows come home. The only thing we know is that the feedback the WotC received was overwhelmingly negative and that it was dropped. Regardless of why, it was shut down by the community and it is gone, just like the Mystic.
Not quite “just like the mystic,” at least some people liked the Mystic.
It is one of those things that we can guess at till the cows come home. The only thing we know is that the feedback the WotC received was overwhelmingly negative and that it was dropped. Regardless of why, it was shut down by the community and it is gone, just like the Mystic.
Not quite “just like the mystic,” at least some people liked the Mystic.
LOL. I was one of those that liked it, even if it did need a bit more work, so I will have to agree.
It is one of those things that we can guess at till the cows come home. The only thing we know is that the feedback the WotC received was overwhelmingly negative and that it was dropped. Regardless of why, it was shut down by the community and it is gone, just like the Mystic.
Not quite “just like the mystic,” at least some people liked the Mystic.
I mean, I liked the Strixhaven UA a lot, just thought it needed some work. The concept was 110% for me, execution somewhere around 48%.
It is one of those things that we can guess at till the cows come home. The only thing we know is that the feedback the WotC received was overwhelmingly negative and that it was dropped. Regardless of why, it was shut down by the community and it is gone, just like the Mystic.
Not quite “just like the mystic,” at least some people liked the Mystic.
I mean, I liked the Strixhaven UA a lot, just thought it needed some work. The concept was 110% for me, execution somewhere around 48%.
It is one of those things that we can guess at till the cows come home. The only thing we know is that the feedback the WotC received was overwhelmingly negative and that it was dropped. Regardless of why, it was shut down by the community and it is gone, just like the Mystic.
Not quite “just like the mystic,” at least some people liked the Mystic.
I mean, I liked the Strixhaven UA a lot, just thought it needed some work. The concept was 110% for me, execution somewhere around 48%.
Same here....
Well, we all just have to accepted that we were in the minority and missed out on somethings that we wanted just because the masses didn't. All we can do is fill out the surveys when they happen and encourage others to do the same.
It is one of those things that we can guess at till the cows come home. The only thing we know is that the feedback the WotC received was overwhelmingly negative and that it was dropped. Regardless of why, it was shut down by the community and it is gone, just like the Mystic.
Not quite “just like the mystic,” at least some people liked the Mystic.
I mean, I liked the Strixhaven UA a lot, just thought it needed some work. The concept was 110% for me, execution somewhere around 48%.
Same here....
Well, we all just have to accepted that we were in the minority and missed out on somethings that we wanted just because the masses didn't.
So is this again the vocal minority liked it case? Because I loved the idea of a magic school with different takes on the way it had been done before.
It is one of those things that we can guess at till the cows come home. The only thing we know is that the feedback the WotC received was overwhelmingly negative and that it was dropped. Regardless of why, it was shut down by the community and it is gone, just like the Mystic.
Not quite “just like the mystic,” at least some people liked the Mystic.
I mean, I liked the Strixhaven UA a lot, just thought it needed some work. The concept was 110% for me, execution somewhere around 48%.
Same here....
Well, we all just have to accepted that we were in the minority and missed out on somethings that we wanted just because the masses didn't.
So is this again the vocal minority liked it case? Because I loved the idea of a magic school with different takes on the way it had been done before.
According to what WotC said about the survey results, yes this is a "vocal minority liked it case".
I purposefully didn’t even read the Strixhaven UA. I knew it was M:tG content so I was already slightly less interested, and as soon as I heard the subclasses were cross-class I figured that you’ll be an issue. When I heard that Bards would miss out on 1 feature that all the other classes’ versions would receive I knew it was DoA, one of those “don’t bother calling the medics, skip straight to the meat wagon” situations. That was all the same day as the UA got released.
I was more than a little “wtf” as to why WotC would put something into UA that they had to have already known was a “dead UA walking.”
I purposefully didn’t even read the Strixhaven UA. I knew it was M:tG content so I was already slightly less interested, and as soon as I heard the subclasses were cross-class I figured that you’ll be an issue. When I heard that Bards would miss out on 1 feature that all the other classes’ versions would receive I knew it was DoA, one of those “don’t bother calling the medics, skip straight to the meat wagon” situations. That was all the same day as the UA got released.
I was more than a little “wtf” as to why WotC would put something into UA that they had to have already known was a “dead UA walking.”
This product was directly aimed at a specific group of people who would love a "Harry Potter" setting, but they were deprived of something by a group of people that wouldn't have used it anyway. I must admit that I had negative feedback on this one, but all of it was aimed at making adjustments, not throwing it out completely.
Yeah, the book's due beginning of December. Was gonna be November 16th, but I think the supply-chain issues the whole world are having right now got it pushed 2-3 weeks.
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Inclusivity? You're really going there? Mate this is not racism, sexism or ableism we're talking about here. That's just demeaning to real inclusivity. That they needed to change the alignment for non white skinned humanoids is only normal, the way it was, was a bad remnant of the times the game was made in. The way they handled the Bladesinger class at first was better than it is now, it used to be DM approval for non elves. I also want to point out they didn't do it for the Batllerager, that one is still Dwarves only. Inclusivity; don't use it when it cheapens the meaning.
1. Specialized Sourcebooks won't sell as well. That's not hard to grasp. If only full casters get something from the sourcebook it will sell less than when every class gets something.
2. Are we pretending now that non-full casters not getting subclasses was the problem, and not that the UA was bad in the iteration it was and there was not enough time to fix everything broken?
That's still a monumental assumption based on the fact that the UA only included caster options. Other UAs have done so without the uproar. We know the school has security forces and stuff like that, why would anyone assume there's no place for martials in Strixhaven? It's just a really big leap based on nothing that crippled some intensely interesting ideas with far-reaching implications before they had a shot.
1. Perhaps what you're referencing would sell less but most books are specialized in setting and content. I don't see that being that big of an issue. Most of their books have specialized player content that fits that setting/campaign. In this case that would be all casters *shrug*. In fact most books are specialized when it comes to player options (which is all this UA was) with the exception of the core books.
2. We aren't pretending. We are responding to people saying that was their issue with it. Balance in DND is always game by game based. If you ended up with martial classes in this setting and they were struggling vs subclasses and is ruining their fun throw them a bone. Isn't that was DMs do? Balance the game to their party and make sure everyone is having fun. It isn't a prewritten campaign so the difficulty is entirely up to the DM.
We also know wizards has a habit of releasing stronger UA and nerfing it for live as they have stated it's easier to scale back then buff things. I think people legitimately didn't like the concept and had less to do with balance as you said there wasn't enough time to test it. We've also heard from them (WotC) that people didn't like the fact it took away the distinctness of the classes. So personally I think the balance aspect is a non-issue and would have been the easiest to address had people liked everything else about it.
It is one of those things that we can guess at till the cows come home. The only thing we know is that the feedback the WotC received was overwhelmingly negative and that it was dropped. Regardless of why, it was shut down by the community and it is gone, just like the Mystic.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Wow I didn't mean to trigger you there my apologies, but you must know that there are players that only play melee classes as that is what they like. Inclusivity is about anything that keeps some out regardless of the reason I was not trying to push racism in this post, I just mentioned the opening of Bladesinger to non elves, I didn't mention a Battlerager due to the fact I do not care for that subclass and I did not even think about it at the time.
"Martial" and "melee" are not interchangeable.
For me it was both honestly....the lack of martial options came at a bad time when the conversation was heavy in the "Casters are much better than Martials" realm....it still is now of course but it was then too.
The 2nd point was more of why it got axed IMO....it was in awful shape and needed a lot of work. I think they were workshopping the idea for multiple class subclasses but seems that they kinda shit the bed a little bit with the presentation and may have soured the idea moving forward.
Honestly I hope that isnt the case as I found them very interesting but it was that rough.
Not quite “just like the mystic,” at least some people liked the Mystic.
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LOL. I was one of those that liked it, even if it did need a bit more work, so I will have to agree.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I mean, I liked the Strixhaven UA a lot, just thought it needed some work. The concept was 110% for me, execution somewhere around 48%.
Same here....
Well, we all just have to accepted that we were in the minority and missed out on somethings that we wanted just because the masses didn't. All we can do is fill out the surveys when they happen and encourage others to do the same.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
So is this again the vocal minority liked it case? Because I loved the idea of a magic school with different takes on the way it had been done before.
According to what WotC said about the survey results, yes this is a "vocal minority liked it case".
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I purposefully didn’t even read the Strixhaven UA. I knew it was M:tG content so I was already slightly less interested, and as soon as I heard the subclasses were cross-class I figured that you’ll be an issue. When I heard that Bards would miss out on 1 feature that all the other classes’ versions would receive I knew it was DoA, one of those “don’t bother calling the medics, skip straight to the meat wagon” situations. That was all the same day as the UA got released.
I was more than a little “wtf” as to why WotC would put something into UA that they had to have already known was a “dead UA walking.”
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
This product was directly aimed at a specific group of people who would love a "Harry Potter" setting, but they were deprived of something by a group of people that wouldn't have used it anyway. I must admit that I had negative feedback on this one, but all of it was aimed at making adjustments, not throwing it out completely.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
The setting is still coming though, right? I understood it that just the crossclassing got scrappd.
Yeah, the book's due beginning of December. Was gonna be November 16th, but I think the supply-chain issues the whole world are having right now got it pushed 2-3 weeks.