Sometimes it has more to do with Story and Lore than Mechanics. By example, the lack of any real Lore, Story, or World-building in Spelljammer was a major issue for me.
You can still have a stable population of biracial people and just have individuals "take after" one side of the family or another. I think this is a good change which doesn't affect lore at all.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I'm not sure how many creatures were initially really able to crossbreed in the first place. I think humans were able to breed with anyone and orcs were able to breed with anyone and polymorphed dragons were, and also manifested fiends. I don't really remember too many other examples from the 'good ol' days' of folk that could breed with other folk.
We have to remember that D&D is fantasy, not reality. I don't mean that in a trite or pithy way, but the tone, feeling and atmosphere is meant to be emulating that of fairy tales and mythical past, where people thought that such different species could interbreed. You could cross a monkey and a crocodile, it just didn't happen often enough to know and example. Being half fairy was not impossible - and it was common. "Was" being defined as being in fairy tales etc. So Half-Orcs, Half-Elves etc are possible and common too, for some definition of common.
Of course, today we know that's wrong and wouldn't work that way at all. But the game aims for the fairy tale aesthetic, not historical, so they by RAW are possible.
By the way, kudos for framing how crossbreeding actually works. Too often people try to clain that interspecies breeding is impossible by definition, so kudos for framing it right.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Meh. Half-orcs lose savage attacks, but gain temporary hit points. I do not see this as a great loss or bad trade. From an extra pop 5% of the time to consistently harder to kill just about always. Sounds great to me.
Yeh, I mean, I played a half-orc fighter to level 6 before he died. I never once made a single critical hit with him. I never even got to try that feature with him.
Those blends created a true-breeding race (read as species), that unlike mules, etc. are fertile/viable amongst themselves; whereas most other creatures couldn't actually do that.
Which is the exact reason I scrapped it in my home game, because there's zero reason why human/elf and human/orc should be "viable" but halfling/gnome or elf/orc aren't
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I wish they had used the system from “When an Elf and an Orc Have a Little Baby.” Basically, every race gets two or more unique stat block, and you make mixed lineages by combining stat blocks from any two different races. For even more customization, they also have a point buy system.
you know backward compatible means that you can just use the 5e phb versions of half-elf and half-orc right if that's what you prefer (well I guess as long as your dm allows you to)
I wish they had used the system from “When an Elf and an Orc Have a Little Baby.” Basically, every race gets two or more unique stat block, and you make mixed lineages by combining stat blocks from any two different races. For even more customization, they also have a point buy system.
I bet they considered it, but it's inherently complicated. They need modules for all the races, including the ones in transitional products like MoM and Spelljammer. Then they need to test all the modules together, to make sure nothing too absurd can be built.
Also, the optimization-focussed people would be all over it. "If you're not playing a half-orc, half-dragonborn, you're just giving up on a full 3.3 DPR. But you have to be orc on your mother's side. If your dad was an orc, you're just a waste of space."
You can still have a stable population of biracial people and just have individuals "take after" one side of the family or another.
The "dominate gene" element is what I think they were going for for sure, but that's not always the case and sometimes people are a true mix of the parents.
Having the PC look like a mix but play as one side is not a half race really, it's a different looking elf or orc or human essentially and the book already says humans especially look different based on where they're from so it's just a cosmetic DLC skin really not something actually a mix of both elements. Again yes you can have dominate genes and looks in a family to where Timmy the half orc looks very much like their human parent more than their orc parent but on the flip his sister Jenny might have traits from both and that needs to be reflected.
If they can do a Build A Background then I don't understand why they can't do a Build A Half Race. As others have said there's already systems out there they could just buy out. Even if they didn't it's not hard to say divide math differences and keep what's the same; pick a racial trait from each side - easy!
I know people are yelling "power gaming" but you can't edit out power gaming completely so if you care about thematics as much as this video presentation seemed to suggest then thematically the half race would not play the same as every other orc unless that's what the player wanted; you want the "dominate gene" approach fine but most aren't going to want that. The cool feature of doing a half race is taking bits and pieces of both and adding them together to see what you can create. One half elf and half human might have Fey Ancestry and another not so you have an elf looking being who can be swayed by magics which isn't the normal by their lore and the PC can say it's because they're only half elf even though they look full and talk about their PC that way.
It just makes no sense to me to call this a half race when it plays the same as a full race. If I pick half race but play as an elf I might as well have picked an elf from the start some will certainly argue. It is not hard to do true half races and half races are more than just their physical looks.
"Dominate gene" can be the new player easy mode if you will for a half race but there needs to be a variant which allows for actual half race customization as well because again not everyone just takes after one side...some mixed race people are an exact mix of both sides and that needs to be represented as well.
"Dominate gene" can be the new player easy mode if you will for a half race but there needs to be a variant which allows for actual half race customization as well because again not everyone just takes after one side...some mixed race people are an exact mix of both sides and that needs to be represented as well.
I mean, mixed-race real-world people are literally just cosmetic differences in D&D terms. (The social effects on the actual people are real, of course.)
The people who want more mechanical customization can:
Homebrew a race
Build a background
Make a feat
For all we know, there are going to be backgrounds or feats with names like "Elven bloodline". You can lobby WotC for them; things are far from set in stone at this point.
However, they've decided that accommodating people who just want to play someone whose parents are an elf and a tiefling (or a plasmoid and an autognome, however that worked) without having to engage with a complex rules subsystem is worthwhile.
This seems rather silly to me. So many people are into Min/Maxing that they forget they are trying to play a realistic character that is fills a niche in a group. When I first picked up the PHB for 5th Edition I really enjoyed those rules for character creation. Having set guidelines for a decently diverse set of races really gave a nice fleshing out in the character build. There were certain bonus things you got from each race and sub race that just balanced the game and gave us a template to flesh out a fun character.
I have never been a min/max player and was always irked by players who adapt that style. No single player in any campaign should be developed to be the hero of the realm. The play should take you on any journey you wanted to endure while seeing how your decisions could handle the randomness of putting yourself in danger and intrigue. Your character should be motivated to want to be part of the journey while applying your skills to flesh out your party. Everytime I played a "Rambo" style "lonewolf" it has really ruined my game experience and by default I can only imagine what my party thought at those times.
Embrace your strengths and weaknesses. This is what made the series Vox Mechanica so enjoyable. That and the banter they use in the series is identical to table banter that we all love and enjoy. Don't focus on making your character invincible, instead focus on making your character useful and fun. Don't forget! This is a game! Have fun!
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I am not sure what my Spirit Animal is. But whatever that thing is, I am pretty sure it has rabies!
It always seemed odd to me that Half-Elf and Half-Orc were the only Half races that were playable and always Half Human.
Now it opens the floodgates.
Also the given example is not what the document says. It says they mix their parents for appearance. It doesn't say I mixed Orc and Gnome and look like a Goblin. Instead you would likely be a smaller Orc with more cute features. Back in the day that would have looked Goblinoid, but it has been a long time since Orcs and Goblins were connected. Except in Warhammer.
That said it will take some adjustment to get used to the lack of Half-Elves having rules, but I bet it won't take long.
This seems rather silly to me. So many people are into Min/Maxing that they forget they are trying to play a realistic character that is fills a niche in a group. When I first picked up the PHB for 5th Edition I really enjoyed those rules for character creation. Having set guidelines for a decently diverse set of races really gave a nice fleshing out in the character build. There were certain bonus things you got from each race and sub race that just balanced the game and gave us a template to flesh out a fun character.
I have never been a min/max player and was always irked by players who adapt that style. No single player in any campaign should be developed to be the hero of the realm. The play should take you on any journey you wanted to endure while seeing how your decisions could handle the randomness of putting yourself in danger and intrigue. Your character should be motivated to want to be part of the journey while applying your skills to flesh out your party. Everytime I played a "Rambo" style "lonewolf" it has really ruined my game experience and by default I can only imagine what my party thought at those times.
Embrace your strengths and weaknesses. This is what made the series Vox Mechanica so enjoyable. That and the banter they use in the series is identical to table banter that we all love and enjoy. Don't focus on making your character invincible, instead focus on making your character useful and fun. Don't forget! This is a game! Have fun!
I have no idea if you're for the change, against it, or posting in the wrong thread. The new rules are no more or less susceptible to min-maxing than the old rules are.
I like the new half-races. This is exactly what I have recommended to people that wanted to be half-dragonborn, half-tieflings or whatever.
As someone who mostly plays Half-Elves this saddens me.
Don't get me wrong I rather like the idea that you can play a character with a very diverse ancestry but Half-Elves (and Half-Orcs for that matter) have a lot of longstanding flavour and lore unique to them. It feels like that is being lost in the drive to homogenise things.
As someone who mostly plays Half-Elves this saddens me.
Don't get me wrong I rather like the idea that you can play a character with a very diverse ancestry but Half-Elves (and Half-Orcs for that matter) have a lot of longstanding flavour and lore unique to them. It feels like that is being lost in the drive to homogenise things.
I don't think any of this lore has to go away just because they are not a distinct entry in the race chapter.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
what if the release includes an "example" half-elf just like the example backgrounds? a few recommended traits and a short blurb about their place in society. seems easy enough.
...and, if that settled, then maybe we can move on to the inevitable "half-half-elf and half-______" clarifications.
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unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: providefeedback!
As someone who mostly plays Half-Elves this saddens me.
Don't get me wrong I rather like the idea that you can play a character with a very diverse ancestry but Half-Elves (and Half-Orcs for that matter) have a lot of longstanding flavour and lore unique to them. It feels like that is being lost in the drive to homogenise things.
I don't think any of this lore has to go away just because they are not a distinct entry in the race chapter.
You're right, in theory. From an ivory tower perspective, the races need only provide the most stripped-down mechanical features, and then the setting guides should provide the lore. Because, like, some settings don't have the half-elf baggage that the Realms has, right? But... Well, that's just not how it's been. We don't really even have a setting guide for the Realms, because almost all the rulebooks function as partial setting guides for that setting. Meanwhile the dedicated setting books are also forced to contain mechanics, so why not just include the relevant races too? It's a messy problem.
I don't have a great answer. It seems likely that Oned (still looking for that perfect abbreviation, because obviously "One D&D" is just too lengthy) will not have a default setting. But as of yet, it's really unclear what that's going to look like. I feel as though the core books will be nearly useless if they're not released alongside massive setting guides to fill in the gaps.
I think it's been stated by others that just because Wizards wants to call it "One D&D" it's far more likely to be popularly called 6e. Remember, 5e wasn't always 5e
Sometimes it has more to do with Story and Lore than Mechanics. By example, the lack of any real Lore, Story, or World-building in Spelljammer was a major issue for me.
You can still have a stable population of biracial people and just have individuals "take after" one side of the family or another. I think this is a good change which doesn't affect lore at all.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
We have to remember that D&D is fantasy, not reality. I don't mean that in a trite or pithy way, but the tone, feeling and atmosphere is meant to be emulating that of fairy tales and mythical past, where people thought that such different species could interbreed. You could cross a monkey and a crocodile, it just didn't happen often enough to know and example. Being half fairy was not impossible - and it was common. "Was" being defined as being in fairy tales etc. So Half-Orcs, Half-Elves etc are possible and common too, for some definition of common.
Of course, today we know that's wrong and wouldn't work that way at all. But the game aims for the fairy tale aesthetic, not historical, so they by RAW are possible.
By the way, kudos for framing how crossbreeding actually works. Too often people try to clain that interspecies breeding is impossible by definition, so kudos for framing it right.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Half of half-orc players wanted the orc mechanics but the half-orc name. And vice versa. The distinction has always been pointless imo.
Short of a fully modular, pick and choose traits design, which I don't even think would be good, this is the best way forward imo.
Yeh, I mean, I played a half-orc fighter to level 6 before he died. I never once made a single critical hit with him. I never even got to try that feature with him.
Altrazin Aghanes - Wizard/Fighter
Varpulis Windhowl - Fighter
Skolson Demjon - Cleric/Fighter
Which is the exact reason I scrapped it in my home game, because there's zero reason why human/elf and human/orc should be "viable" but halfling/gnome or elf/orc aren't
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I wish they had used the system from “When an Elf and an Orc Have a Little Baby.” Basically, every race gets two or more unique stat block, and you make mixed lineages by combining stat blocks from any two different races. For even more customization, they also have a point buy system.
you know backward compatible means that you can just use the 5e phb versions of half-elf and half-orc right if that's what you prefer (well I guess as long as your dm allows you to)
I bet they considered it, but it's inherently complicated. They need modules for all the races, including the ones in transitional products like MoM and Spelljammer. Then they need to test all the modules together, to make sure nothing too absurd can be built.
Also, the optimization-focussed people would be all over it. "If you're not playing a half-orc, half-dragonborn, you're just giving up on a full 3.3 DPR. But you have to be orc on your mother's side. If your dad was an orc, you're just a waste of space."
The "dominate gene" element is what I think they were going for for sure, but that's not always the case and sometimes people are a true mix of the parents.
Having the PC look like a mix but play as one side is not a half race really, it's a different looking elf or orc or human essentially and the book already says humans especially look different based on where they're from so it's just a cosmetic DLC skin really not something actually a mix of both elements. Again yes you can have dominate genes and looks in a family to where Timmy the half orc looks very much like their human parent more than their orc parent but on the flip his sister Jenny might have traits from both and that needs to be reflected.
If they can do a Build A Background then I don't understand why they can't do a Build A Half Race. As others have said there's already systems out there they could just buy out. Even if they didn't it's not hard to say divide math differences and keep what's the same; pick a racial trait from each side - easy!
I know people are yelling "power gaming" but you can't edit out power gaming completely so if you care about thematics as much as this video presentation seemed to suggest then thematically the half race would not play the same as every other orc unless that's what the player wanted; you want the "dominate gene" approach fine but most aren't going to want that. The cool feature of doing a half race is taking bits and pieces of both and adding them together to see what you can create. One half elf and half human might have Fey Ancestry and another not so you have an elf looking being who can be swayed by magics which isn't the normal by their lore and the PC can say it's because they're only half elf even though they look full and talk about their PC that way.
It just makes no sense to me to call this a half race when it plays the same as a full race. If I pick half race but play as an elf I might as well have picked an elf from the start some will certainly argue. It is not hard to do true half races and half races are more than just their physical looks.
"Dominate gene" can be the new player easy mode if you will for a half race but there needs to be a variant which allows for actual half race customization as well because again not everyone just takes after one side...some mixed race people are an exact mix of both sides and that needs to be represented as well.
I mean, mixed-race real-world people are literally just cosmetic differences in D&D terms. (The social effects on the actual people are real, of course.)
The people who want more mechanical customization can:
For all we know, there are going to be backgrounds or feats with names like "Elven bloodline". You can lobby WotC for them; things are far from set in stone at this point.
However, they've decided that accommodating people who just want to play someone whose parents are an elf and a tiefling (or a plasmoid and an autognome, however that worked) without having to engage with a complex rules subsystem is worthwhile.
This seems rather silly to me. So many people are into Min/Maxing that they forget they are trying to play a realistic character that is fills a niche in a group. When I first picked up the PHB for 5th Edition I really enjoyed those rules for character creation. Having set guidelines for a decently diverse set of races really gave a nice fleshing out in the character build. There were certain bonus things you got from each race and sub race that just balanced the game and gave us a template to flesh out a fun character.
I have never been a min/max player and was always irked by players who adapt that style. No single player in any campaign should be developed to be the hero of the realm. The play should take you on any journey you wanted to endure while seeing how your decisions could handle the randomness of putting yourself in danger and intrigue. Your character should be motivated to want to be part of the journey while applying your skills to flesh out your party. Everytime I played a "Rambo" style "lonewolf" it has really ruined my game experience and by default I can only imagine what my party thought at those times.
Embrace your strengths and weaknesses. This is what made the series Vox Mechanica so enjoyable. That and the banter they use in the series is identical to table banter that we all love and enjoy. Don't focus on making your character invincible, instead focus on making your character useful and fun. Don't forget! This is a game! Have fun!
I am not sure what my Spirit Animal is. But whatever that thing is, I am pretty sure it has rabies!
I kind of like this.
It always seemed odd to me that Half-Elf and Half-Orc were the only Half races that were playable and always Half Human.
Now it opens the floodgates.
Also the given example is not what the document says. It says they mix their parents for appearance. It doesn't say I mixed Orc and Gnome and look like a Goblin. Instead you would likely be a smaller Orc with more cute features. Back in the day that would have looked Goblinoid, but it has been a long time since Orcs and Goblins were connected. Except in Warhammer.
That said it will take some adjustment to get used to the lack of Half-Elves having rules, but I bet it won't take long.
I have no idea if you're for the change, against it, or posting in the wrong thread. The new rules are no more or less susceptible to min-maxing than the old rules are.
I like the new half-races. This is exactly what I have recommended to people that wanted to be half-dragonborn, half-tieflings or whatever.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
As someone who mostly plays Half-Elves this saddens me.
Don't get me wrong I rather like the idea that you can play a character with a very diverse ancestry but Half-Elves (and Half-Orcs for that matter) have a lot of longstanding flavour and lore unique to them. It feels like that is being lost in the drive to homogenise things.
I don't think any of this lore has to go away just because they are not a distinct entry in the race chapter.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
what if the release includes an "example" half-elf just like the example backgrounds? a few recommended traits and a short blurb about their place in society. seems easy enough.
...and, if that settled, then maybe we can move on to the inevitable "half-half-elf and half-______" clarifications.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
You're right, in theory. From an ivory tower perspective, the races need only provide the most stripped-down mechanical features, and then the setting guides should provide the lore. Because, like, some settings don't have the half-elf baggage that the Realms has, right? But... Well, that's just not how it's been. We don't really even have a setting guide for the Realms, because almost all the rulebooks function as partial setting guides for that setting. Meanwhile the dedicated setting books are also forced to contain mechanics, so why not just include the relevant races too? It's a messy problem.
I don't have a great answer. It seems likely that Oned (still looking for that perfect abbreviation, because obviously "One D&D" is just too lengthy) will not have a default setting. But as of yet, it's really unclear what that's going to look like. I feel as though the core books will be nearly useless if they're not released alongside massive setting guides to fill in the gaps.
I think it's been stated by others that just because Wizards wants to call it "One D&D" it's far more likely to be popularly called 6e. Remember, 5e wasn't always 5e
I have been shortening it to "1DD."
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!