I dunno. I never thought of Warlocks as that simple, but the lack of numerous spell slots and not having that many spells known combined with the relative ease of picking less complicated Eldritch Invocations definitely made it one of the more newbie friendly casters.
Clerics and other casters like them have tons of spell slots of numerous levels (which creates a lot of choices, confusion and complexity that some might not want to deal with), the whole class list of spells to constantly learn about, modify, and prepare from, as well as several other features. I doubt that they are that simple compared to 5e's Warlock, and I know that they certainly are not as newbie friendly as necessary to fit the role of simple caster.
I'm not saying it's bad for new players, per se, but there's a lot of minefields under that unassuming exterior. Of the low-level invocations in the 2014 PHB I think only Agonizing Blast and Repelling Blast are a no-brainer. The rest are a bevy of traps, combo pieces and niche options for the unwary. Armor of Shadows? Trap. Beast Speech and Eyes of the Runekeeper? Highly table-dependent. Devil's Sight? Combo piece. Eldritch Sight? Trap for tomelock, redundant if you have... any other caster, potentially useful otherwise. Eldritch Spear? Trap. Fiendish Vigor? Good for one level, which just so happens to be the level you should probably be grabbing Agonizing Blast. Mask of Many Faces/Misty Visions? Table-dependent. Thief of Five Fates? Trap.
Clerics do get a ton of spells, but they don't have to burn spells known on any of them, so if something isn't working out or coming up all that often, the new player is just a long rest away from trying something new. And it's about to get even more new-player friendly by having a built-in blasting and healing option available no matter what spells they have prepped. And that's on top of having medium armor and shields right at level 1.
I have a really hard time taking someone seriously when they dismiss anything that isn't a purely optimal DPR build as a "trap" or "table-dependent"
Some of those are very poorly designed even if they aren't necessarily a trap. Thief of 5 fates, I mean really bane once per day and it uses a slot. Sure its upcast to lets say 3rd level so now it hits 5 enemies instead of 3, but is that really worth a invocation and a spell slot. Sure it fits the thematic cursing element of warlocks but mechanically that is weak and the design of once per day is sad. Like have the spell be added to your known list with one free cast at minimum level, its bane that wont break things. Many of the traps are clear role play invocations not sources of power so I am not sure trap is the right term. Makes me wonder if there should be a pool of minor invocations for invocations that are mostly if not all roleplaying boons and not mechanical boons that use a different resource to choose.
Oh, for sure, I'm not saying everything on that list is good, but when you lump Thief of Five Fates in with Eldritch Sight at the same level of badness, I just stop reading
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I mean, I could dismiss Agonizing Blast as "table-dependent" because I play in a campaign that's very RP-heavy and combat only happens once every five sessions or so, but I wouldn't expect anyone to take that opinion seriously either
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
While I like what they did with the warlock I can understand people not liking them being half casters. Easy fix is to alter pact magic to only recharge on a long rest. Just make it part of the feature to recharge 1 pact slot in one minute proficiency times per day. They would still get 3 slots at 11 and 4 slots at 17. Then also add an invocation that lets them get two slots back each time they recharge. This allows them to cast more spells without relying on short rest but still limits how many spells per combat since they cast at highest level. Also return Mystic Arcanums to being a feature and not part on invocations. Then return the cast a spell once a day invocations, but remove the need for using a warlock spell slot. This would mean those spells only cast at their base levels, but that should be fine.
While I like what they did with the warlock I can understand people not liking them being half casters. Easy fix is to alter pact magic to only recharge on a long rest. Just make it part of the feature to recharge 1 pact slot in one minute proficiency times per day. They would still get 3 slots at 11 and 4 slots at 17. Then also add an invocation that lets them get two slots back each time they recharge. This allows them to cast more spells without relying on short rest but still limits how many spells per combat since they cast at highest level. Also return Mystic Arcanums to being a feature and not part on invocations. Then return the cast a spell once a day invocations, but remove the need for using a warlock spell slot. This would mean those spells only cast at their base levels, but that should be fine.
I don't think they want to set stuff like that to PB; they moved Channel Divinity away from PB because it scaled too well as a dip
...I like the "always cast at maximum power" idea we already have. I think that's neat and it "feels" right for the concept of someone using magic they "shouldn't." It's probably possible to balance it properly for a long rest economy, and that would be my preference...
time for a sanity resource?
brain exhaustion with a table/deck of 'flaws' to work around sounds fun. "my secret flaw says i win if three people in the party are on fire at the end of any turn. huh. maybe i shouldn't have read that out loud."
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While I like what they did with the warlock I can understand people not liking them being half casters. Easy fix is to alter pact magic to only recharge on a long rest. Just make it part of the feature to recharge 1 pact slot in one minute proficiency times per day. They would still get 3 slots at 11 and 4 slots at 17. Then also add an invocation that lets them get two slots back each time they recharge. This allows them to cast more spells without relying on short rest but still limits how many spells per combat since they cast at highest level. Also return Mystic Arcanums to being a feature and not part on invocations. Then return the cast a spell once a day invocations, but remove the need for using a warlock spell slot. This would mean those spells only cast at their base levels, but that should be fine.
I don't think they want to set stuff like that to PB; they moved Channel Divinity away from PB because it scaled too well as a dip
Channel Divinity number of dice and uses scaled on PB. It was bad because with a one level dip it still got stronger and you got more uses. This is technically weaker than 5e warlock slots if your party actually takes short rest. If you one level dipped into a 5e warlock you have as many 1st level spell slots as you could get rest. This version just let you recharge in a minute and only gives you a max of 6 recharges per day.
...I like the "always cast at maximum power" idea we already have. I think that's neat and it "feels" right for the concept of someone using magic they "shouldn't." It's probably possible to balance it properly for a long rest economy, and that would be my preference...
time for a sanity resource?
brain exhaustion with a table/deck of 'flaws' to work around sounds fun. "my secret flaw says i win if three people in the party are on fire at the end of any turn. huh. maybe i shouldn't have read that out loud."
I've considered the idea of warlocks being able to get pact slots back in exchange for Hit Dice as a bonus action (so the equivalent of a sorc trading sorcery pts for spell slots), but I'm not sure that scales well at higher levels
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I mean, I could dismiss Agonizing Blast as "table-dependent" because I play in a campaign that's very RP-heavy and combat only happens once every five sessions or so, but I wouldn't expect anyone to take that opinion seriously either
Most PCs don't die in a RP campaign, so sure, pick whatever you want in a game like that. I'm not saying that's a bad way to play.
brain exhaustion with a table/deck of 'flaws' to work around sounds fun. "my secret flaw says i win if three people in the party are on fire at the end of any turn. huh. maybe i shouldn't have read that out loud."
I have no problem with sanity systems as long as they're optional.
...I like the "always cast at maximum power" idea we already have. I think that's neat and it "feels" right for the concept of someone using magic they "shouldn't." It's probably possible to balance it properly for a long rest economy, and that would be my preference...
time for a sanity resource?
brain exhaustion with a table/deck of 'flaws' to work around sounds fun. "my secret flaw says i win if three people in the party are on fire at the end of any turn. huh. maybe i shouldn't have read that out loud."
I've considered the idea of warlocks being able to get pact slots back in exchange for Hit Dice as a bonus action (so the equivalent of a sorc trading sorcery pts for spell slots), but I'm not sure that scales well at higher levels
Well, for it to scale you can relate the life sacrificed in proportion to the level of the spell slot * the number of slots recharged.
I like this alternative for the recovery of pact spaces in case of restitution but without dependence on short breaks, the proposed cost/sacrifice makes sense.
Btw, what is the reasoning behind classes like Fighters still getting to keep things like Action Surge recharging on short rest, if short rests are so problematic?
Btw, what is the reasoning behind classes like Fighters still getting to keep things like Action Surge recharging on short rest, if short rests are so problematic?
The problem comes when you can use an ability with a lasting effect on a short rest. Hence second wind moving to long rest whereas action surge is left at short rest.
Where is shield proficiency? What's the point of medium armor proficiency if I have to take a feat or multiclass for shield proficiency anyway?
The same could be said of Why the Medium Armor proficiency? What's the point of Armor of Shadows Invocation if you get better AC by default?
Swords Bard gets Medium Armor proficiency and no shield proficiency and that takes a subclass. Maybe shield proficiency could be added to a subclass option?
While I like what they did with the warlock I can understand people not liking them being half casters. Easy fix is to alter pact magic to only recharge on a long rest. Just make it part of the feature to recharge 1 pact slot in one minute proficiency times per day. They would still get 3 slots at 11 and 4 slots at 17. Then also add an invocation that lets them get two slots back each time they recharge. This allows them to cast more spells without relying on short rest but still limits how many spells per combat since they cast at highest level. Also return Mystic Arcanums to being a feature and not part on invocations. Then return the cast a spell once a day invocations, but remove the need for using a warlock spell slot. This would mean those spells only cast at their base levels, but that should be fine.
I don't think they want to set stuff like that to PB; they moved Channel Divinity away from PB because it scaled too well as a dip
Channel Divinity number of dice and uses scaled on PB. It was bad because with a one level dip it still got stronger and you got more uses. This is technically weaker than 5e warlock slots if your party actually takes short rest. If you one level dipped into a 5e warlock you have as many 1st level spell slots as you could get rest. This version just let you recharge in a minute and only gives you a max of 6 recharges per day.
The problem might be that having 10 5th level spell slots per day, at 17th level, might be too much? I don't know. At 17th level a full caster has 2 5th, and 1 of each 6th-9th. Yes, the higher level spells are more powerful, but it's hard to quantify how many 5th level slots equal a 6th-9th level spell when Wish and Meteor Swarm are in the picture.
As for the dip problem, if it was a feature that kicked in at a higher level, other than being part of the 1st level Pact Magic feature, it wouldn't be as much of an issue. But at that point you might as well make it a flat number of times, or tied to your casting stat modifier.
Where is shield proficiency? What's the point of medium armor proficiency if I have to take a feat or multiclass for shield proficiency anyway?
you can use an invocation to get shield proficiency, take Lessons of the First Ones to pick up Lightly Armoured. However, why would you want a shield proficiency? If you're using pact weapon you've got one hand taken up already and you want a free hand for somantic components. If you're using pact familiar or book of shadows, you're probably not front-lining anyway so your AC should be less relevant overall and may also end out in situations where you want a free hand; for example if you get a staff of defence but want to cast a spell with a semantic component but no material component.
Medium armour still makes sense for Pact of the Blade tho, since it's basically free AC compared to light armour as your Dexterity is unlikely to be above 14, you'll get a fair AC and you have access to shield spell now.
Btw, what is the reasoning behind classes like Fighters still getting to keep things like Action Surge recharging on short rest, if short rests are so problematic?
The problem comes when you can use an ability with a lasting effect on a short rest. Hence second wind moving to long rest whereas action surge is left at short rest.
Arcane Recovery is still a short rest for wizards, so you may want to revise that theory
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Btw, what is the reasoning behind classes like Fighters still getting to keep things like Action Surge recharging on short rest, if short rests are so problematic?
The problem comes when you can use an ability with a lasting effect on a short rest. Hence second wind moving to long rest whereas action surge is left at short rest.
That makes no sense. Why should a “lasting effect” make any difference?
The answer is that Action Surge, Arcane Recovery, and other lingering short rest abilities are not critical core-functionality pieces of their class. And no, Action Surge is not *critical* to fighters being able to fighter. It's a sweet bonus, but especially in this UA that's all it is.
Spellcasting is critical core functionality to a warlock, but with Pact Magic? You don't get to cast spells and be a spellcaster at all unless your DM and party are magnanimous (and bored) enough to give you 5+ short rests per day. Yes, Eldritch Blast is really good. It is not "carry the entire class alone forever" good. Warlocks are Mage class characters, they should be able to cast spells. Pact Magic doesn't allow them to do so.
...I like the "always cast at maximum power" idea we already have. I think that's neat and it "feels" right for the concept of someone using magic they "shouldn't." It's probably possible to balance it properly for a long rest economy, and that would be my preference...
time for a sanity resource?
brain exhaustion with a table/deck of 'flaws' to work around sounds fun. "my secret flaw says i win if three people in the party are on fire at the end of any turn. huh. maybe i shouldn't have read that out loud."
I've considered the idea of warlocks being able to get pact slots back in exchange for Hit Dice as a bonus action (so the equivalent of a sorc trading sorcery pts for spell slots), but I'm not sure that scales well at higher levels
Well, for it to scale you can relate the life sacrificed in proportion to the level of the spell slot * the number of slots recharged.
I like this alternative for the recovery of pact spaces in case of restitution but without dependence on short breaks, the proposed cost/sacrifice makes sense.
how about trading an amount of max health, recoverable upon long rest. you could absolutely slag a castle with pact spells and limp away twitching with 2 of 2 hit points.
as a complication that might favor melee locks i'd add that if you fell to 0hp while your max health was reduced by half or more, then something abominable takes over. your body gains 1hp, an eerie grey pallor, and some number of temp hp. you fight on immune to fear or charm, a direct pawn of your patron. roleplay it or don't, but the dm might decide this is the moment your patron finally breaks that seal you keep in your pocket or whatever. effect lasts a minute whereupon the warlock gains two levels of UA exhaustion and falls unconscious. additionally, for every level over 9th you fight alongside one more spontaneously conjured fiend/mephit/flying sword/thing/etc which disappear when the warlock becomes unconscious.
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1) I don't think it would be "obviously superior" at all - just like Arcane Archers are not obviously superior at archery compared to every other Fighter (arguably, Battlemaster, Eldritch Knight and Echo Knight can outshoot them.) I do think that for a specific kind of Bladelock, Hexblade might be superior - say, one that wants to use a 2H weapon and/or heavy armor, depending on how they ultimately end up modifying Hexblade - but not necessarily for all of them.
2) I would presume that, like with all sentient magic items, your DM added it to the campaign for a reason. Perhaps the Pact Blade you started the game with was a vestige or aspect whose purpose was leading you towards locating its true form all along. Perhaps when you bond with that item, the personality of your pact weapon subsumes or augments the one in the existing item. Perhaps they're wholly unrelated, and bonding with the item sparks a power struggle for your very soul. Seems like a fantasy story to me 🙂
1) To be fair, Arcane Archer is not superior to anything at all, it's one of, if not the worst fighter subclass. Two shots per short rest is a joke. And if a specific kind of bladelock is better than your average bladelock, people are going to flock to it, that's just how it works. That's why balance matters, it's just not fun to lag behind and deal with an illusion of choice.
2) We kinda spun it like that: a formless Shadowfell entity matches warlocks and their weapons, weaving fate as it sees fit, creating "teams" and breaking them up, so it kinda orchestrated my hexblade's meeting with Hazirawn. Yeah, you can come up with decent stuff, but let's face it, it's always been very murky and vague for Hexblades.
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Oh, for sure, I'm not saying everything on that list is good, but when you lump Thief of Five Fates in with Eldritch Sight at the same level of badness, I just stop reading
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I mean, I could dismiss Agonizing Blast as "table-dependent" because I play in a campaign that's very RP-heavy and combat only happens once every five sessions or so, but I wouldn't expect anyone to take that opinion seriously either
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
While I like what they did with the warlock I can understand people not liking them being half casters. Easy fix is to alter pact magic to only recharge on a long rest. Just make it part of the feature to recharge 1 pact slot in one minute proficiency times per day. They would still get 3 slots at 11 and 4 slots at 17. Then also add an invocation that lets them get two slots back each time they recharge. This allows them to cast more spells without relying on short rest but still limits how many spells per combat since they cast at highest level. Also return Mystic Arcanums to being a feature and not part on invocations. Then return the cast a spell once a day invocations, but remove the need for using a warlock spell slot. This would mean those spells only cast at their base levels, but that should be fine.
I don't think they want to set stuff like that to PB; they moved Channel Divinity away from PB because it scaled too well as a dip
time for a sanity resource?
brain exhaustion with a table/deck of 'flaws' to work around sounds fun. "my secret flaw says i win if three people in the party are on fire at the end of any turn. huh. maybe i shouldn't have read that out loud."
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
Channel Divinity number of dice and uses scaled on PB. It was bad because with a one level dip it still got stronger and you got more uses. This is technically weaker than 5e warlock slots if your party actually takes short rest. If you one level dipped into a 5e warlock you have as many 1st level spell slots as you could get rest. This version just let you recharge in a minute and only gives you a max of 6 recharges per day.
I've considered the idea of warlocks being able to get pact slots back in exchange for Hit Dice as a bonus action (so the equivalent of a sorc trading sorcery pts for spell slots), but I'm not sure that scales well at higher levels
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Most PCs don't die in a RP campaign, so sure, pick whatever you want in a game like that. I'm not saying that's a bad way to play.
I have no problem with sanity systems as long as they're optional.
Well, for it to scale you can relate the life sacrificed in proportion to the level of the spell slot * the number of slots recharged.
I like this alternative for the recovery of pact spaces in case of restitution but without dependence on short breaks, the proposed cost/sacrifice makes sense.
Btw, what is the reasoning behind classes like Fighters still getting to keep things like Action Surge recharging on short rest, if short rests are so problematic?
The problem comes when you can use an ability with a lasting effect on a short rest. Hence second wind moving to long rest whereas action surge is left at short rest.
Where is shield proficiency? What's the point of medium armor proficiency if I have to take a feat or multiclass for shield proficiency anyway?
The same could be said of Why the Medium Armor proficiency? What's the point of Armor of Shadows Invocation if you get better AC by default?
Swords Bard gets Medium Armor proficiency and no shield proficiency and that takes a subclass. Maybe shield proficiency could be added to a subclass option?
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The problem might be that having 10 5th level spell slots per day, at 17th level, might be too much? I don't know. At 17th level a full caster has 2 5th, and 1 of each 6th-9th. Yes, the higher level spells are more powerful, but it's hard to quantify how many 5th level slots equal a 6th-9th level spell when Wish and Meteor Swarm are in the picture.
As for the dip problem, if it was a feature that kicked in at a higher level, other than being part of the 1st level Pact Magic feature, it wouldn't be as much of an issue. But at that point you might as well make it a flat number of times, or tied to your casting stat modifier.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
you can use an invocation to get shield proficiency, take Lessons of the First Ones to pick up Lightly Armoured. However, why would you want a shield proficiency? If you're using pact weapon you've got one hand taken up already and you want a free hand for somantic components. If you're using pact familiar or book of shadows, you're probably not front-lining anyway so your AC should be less relevant overall and may also end out in situations where you want a free hand; for example if you get a staff of defence but want to cast a spell with a semantic component but no material component.
Medium armour still makes sense for Pact of the Blade tho, since it's basically free AC compared to light armour as your Dexterity is unlikely to be above 14, you'll get a fair AC and you have access to shield spell now.
Arcane Recovery is still a short rest for wizards, so you may want to revise that theory
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
That makes no sense. Why should a “lasting effect” make any difference?
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The answer is that Action Surge, Arcane Recovery, and other lingering short rest abilities are not critical core-functionality pieces of their class. And no, Action Surge is not *critical* to fighters being able to fighter. It's a sweet bonus, but especially in this UA that's all it is.
Spellcasting is critical core functionality to a warlock, but with Pact Magic? You don't get to cast spells and be a spellcaster at all unless your DM and party are magnanimous (and bored) enough to give you 5+ short rests per day. Yes, Eldritch Blast is really good. It is not "carry the entire class alone forever" good. Warlocks are Mage class characters, they should be able to cast spells. Pact Magic doesn't allow them to do so.
Why isn't Wizards allowed to correct this?
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how about trading an amount of max health, recoverable upon long rest. you could absolutely slag a castle with pact spells and limp away twitching with 2 of 2 hit points.
as a complication that might favor melee locks i'd add that if you fell to 0hp while your max health was reduced by half or more, then something abominable takes over. your body gains 1hp, an eerie grey pallor, and some number of temp hp. you fight on immune to fear or charm, a direct pawn of your patron. roleplay it or don't, but the dm might decide this is the moment your patron finally breaks that seal you keep in your pocket or whatever. effect lasts a minute whereupon the warlock gains two levels of UA exhaustion and falls unconscious. additionally, for every level over 9th you fight alongside one more spontaneously conjured fiend/mephit/flying sword/thing/etc which disappear when the warlock becomes unconscious.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
1) To be fair, Arcane Archer is not superior to anything at all, it's one of, if not the worst fighter subclass. Two shots per short rest is a joke. And if a specific kind of bladelock is better than your average bladelock, people are going to flock to it, that's just how it works. That's why balance matters, it's just not fun to lag behind and deal with an illusion of choice.
2) We kinda spun it like that: a formless Shadowfell entity matches warlocks and their weapons, weaving fate as it sees fit, creating "teams" and breaking them up, so it kinda orchestrated my hexblade's meeting with Hazirawn. Yeah, you can come up with decent stuff, but let's face it, it's always been very murky and vague for Hexblades.