Pretty sure piecemeal purchasing will continue with the new books...
This is what I'm hoping. The one issue I'm currently having is the '5.5' Monk base class is awful, the '5.5' Shadow Monk is massively improved. I'm hoping that, if things remain backwards compatible, I could theoretically buy the '5.5' Subclass but not buy the '5.5' Base Class (or vice versa). Of course, nothing has been finalised yet as everything is still being play tested, but I wonder if players will be allowed that level of freedom once the new books are released.
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#Open D&D
Have the Physical Books? Confused as to why you're not allowed to redeem them for free on D&D Beyond? Questions answered here at the Hardcover Books, D&D Beyond and You FAQ
Looking to add mouse-over triggered tooltips to such things like magic items, monsters or combat actions? Then dash over to the How to Add Tooltips thread.
Don't you think that's shooting yourself in the foot? For WoTC I mean. If you can buy only the classes that interest you, the books are not going to sell well. Except for collectors who want to have everything that is published, and new players, most will only acquire the bits they need. That can make book sales a flop.
It is increasingly clear to me that this strategy of making it "compatible" is short-term gain, long-term pain. But we'll see.
Don't you think that's shooting yourself in the foot? For WoTC I mean. If you can buy only the classes that interest you, the books are not going to sell well. Except for collectors who want to have everything that is published, and new players, most will only acquire the bits they need. That can make book sales a flop.
It is increasingly clear to me that this strategy of making it "compatible" is short-term gain, long-term pain. But we'll see.
That’s what this site has been doing for years though. Heck, they give away the base classes for free (save artificer) in the srd. Then people can buy individual subclasses and races. Seems like they’re doing pretty well with this model.
That’s what this site has been doing for years though. Heck, they give away the base classes for free (save artificer) in the srd. Then people can buy individual subclasses and races. Seems like they’re doing pretty well with this model.
It's not the same.
The physical books for 5e had been available for a few years before D&D Beyond's existence. I think it's safe to say many would have bought the physical books early on but then only paid for what they wanted digitally for use here if they thought some of the classes were hit and miss.
But it's only now we are seeing this sentiment directed at planned changes to existing classes because it's only now they are updating the books. How well that model might have served them up to this point in time is going to be moot come 2024.
It's only been since 2020—six years into what will have been the ten year existence of the current edition—since D&D Beyond has been enjoying the numbers it now does. Most players still don't play here. So whatever their model might be here that's not going to help them avoid the embarrassment of hordes of players not buying the physical books and their experiencing a sizeable drop in sales compared to those they have seen for the 5e books.
Anyone buying things piecemeal here probably owns the books already and feels they needn't pay for everything here and only needs to pay for what they need to run their games. They are but a subset of the playerbase.
We are experiencing an update. That's quite the event. If enough people don't buy the physical editions of that update because they just don't think it's worth it WOTC are going to feel that.
Perhaps the results of this poll are off. But if they're not it's not looking good for them.
Many who are even often critical of WOTC believe they were onto not just a good thing but a great thing with 5e—it brought in so many new players and brought back so many old players—but many also believe this update is unwarranted.
Not entirely unrelated to this is they have just announced they will no longer sell just the physical books from the official shop. If you're buying direct you will need to pay for the bundle providing you access to what you've paid for here. So that's already players who don't play here and who have no intention of playing here who will stop shopping direct. I think they are so invested in making Beyond "the hub of the hobby" and in their virtual table-top they have lost sight of things.
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INSPIRATIONS:Clark Ashton Smith, Mervyn Peake, Jack Vance, Michael Moorcock, Fritz Leiber, M. John Harrison, Gene Wolfe, Steven Brust, Terry Pratchett, China Miéville.
Don't you think that's shooting yourself in the foot? For WoTC I mean. If you can buy only the classes that interest you, the books are not going to sell well.
Oh I totally see that point, though Xalthu has kindly provided a good counterpoint.
I guess the thing is that buying piecemeal would eventually end up with a sale of the whole book - let's say the new Player's Handbook book costs $30 for the Digital Version. It's $1.99 for say the new Shadow Monk Subclass. But then I think 'screw it, I have 5 players that all want to try the new subclasses so I may as well pay $12.99 to get them all. Suddenly, paying $17.01 for the rest of the book doesn't sound so bad and I may end up buying it anyway, especially if I buy more things piecemeal like spells, magic items etc. In effect, the book would eventually end up being sold.
Of course, that's just one example and everyone has different spending habits so that scenario won't happen with everyone, but it's a possibility if they adopt the same piecemeal selling structure that happens with the current products.
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#Open D&D
Have the Physical Books? Confused as to why you're not allowed to redeem them for free on D&D Beyond? Questions answered here at the Hardcover Books, D&D Beyond and You FAQ
Looking to add mouse-over triggered tooltips to such things like magic items, monsters or combat actions? Then dash over to the How to Add Tooltips thread.
I know a lot of people who came back to the brand because of 5e who are turning their noses up at the idea of "an upgrade." The way they see it homebrewing suffices when it comes to ironing out any problems.
Well, I certainly fall into this category, but I'm perhaps not quite as curmudgeonly as I started out as far as being now willing to wait and see rather than automatically going to "I will probably sit the next edition out."
I still must say, though, that when their sixth playtest mentions wanting to increase the versatility of the bard and then the first thing they mention after that is requiring the bard to pick at first level which of three subdivisions of bardic magic they will have access to, the logical contradiction of trying to twist my mind around to seeing how that INCREASES the bard's versatility leaves me with a mental Charley horse that's knotting up my brain muscles into one huge cramp.
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Famh Thrawn Fiadhaich - 'half elven' sorcerer (wild magic) 2, Sleeping Gods - A Dragon Warriors campaign in the Lands of Legend
Quspira Inirali - tiefling cleric (Life domain) 4, Painted's "He'll be the father of my child"
---RETIRED HEROES' REST HOME---
Sae Ivui Nailo - wood elf rogue (inquisitive) 5 , Sea of Death: Captain Hailstorm's Lost Treasure
Ryshraxea "Shra" Naranthi - tabaxi artificer 1, Nyx's Tomb of Annihilation - Group 1
[T]hey have just announced they will no longer sell just the physical books from the official shop. If you're buying direct you will need to pay for the bundle providing you access to what you've paid for here.
Don't know. It looks like they are pulling back on big changes so it remains backwards compatible. But if you don't make big changes why would I buy it as I have 95% of it already. And some of the big changes they have made I just don't like. Such as weapon masteries. These feel like the kind of ability you like the first 2 times you play with it but come to loathe. I trip, I trip, I Trip, I trip, I trip, I trip. How did that add any value to my game. Sure on a balance scale martials are more powerful with it. So I guess that is a win, but its boring as heck pretty dang quick. Give martials actual maneuvers one of which is just more damage. Because you don't always have to trip, disarm, shove every time you swing a sword. Sometimes you just want to kill them. That would be a big change and one I'd like.
but hey its still has 8-10 months of play testing, then another 2-3 months where they ignore everything in the play test and just add a bunch of stuff without testing, after which it goes to the printer and by then maybe it will be something that looks good.
Right now its better in some ways worse in others so its a mixed bag not worth getting.
[T]hey have just announced they will no longer sell just the physical books from the official shop. If you're buying direct you will need to pay for the bundle providing you access to what you've paid for here.
Can still purchase just the physical books from a physical shop or from Amazon of course.
But it's becoming more and more apparent that Wizards are increasingly seeing D&D as a game to be played here and not around tables. That's worrying.
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INSPIRATIONS:Clark Ashton Smith, Mervyn Peake, Jack Vance, Michael Moorcock, Fritz Leiber, M. John Harrison, Gene Wolfe, Steven Brust, Terry Pratchett, China Miéville.
Yeah, plus it doesnt really feel like they are listening to us. But at the same time not everyones going to be happy.
I believe they’re listening. Their jobs depend on keeping players happy. But they’re also professionals with more experience than us (not you personally) folks who like to mostly just throw around average dpr numbers like that’s all that matters when comparing different characters. They also, unlike us, have access to 10’s of thousands of responses from the surveys, so it may be our opinions here are simply not in the majority. In short, listening to someone isn’t the same as doing what they say. One can listen, give thoughts consideration, and still disagree.
[T]hey have just announced they will no longer sell just the physical books from the official shop. If you're buying direct you will need to pay for the bundle providing you access to what you've paid for here.
Can still purchase just the physical books from a physical shop or from Amazon of course.
But it's becoming more and more apparent that Wizards are increasingly seeing D&D as a game to be played here and not around tables. That's worrying.
Maybe this is more the result of people bellyaching for years about not being able to have books bundled with the DDB than it is about D&D becoming a DDB game. There are new threads demanding bundles that are only just a few days old. There are any number of reasons why they have only bundles up on the Wizards site that are far from troubling. Maybe this is consumer-driven and not some plot to take away consumer options. They did a test run a while back. Maybe they found that bundles on the site did better than physical books alone and that physical books alone have markedly higher sales at places like Amazon and physical shops. I do not know for sure if this was the case but it certainly could be a reason.
Don't you think that's shooting yourself in the foot? For WoTC I mean. If you can buy only the classes that interest you, the books are not going to sell well. Except for collectors who want to have everything that is published, and new players, most will only acquire the bits they need. That can make book sales a flop.
It is increasingly clear to me that this strategy of making it "compatible" is short-term gain, long-term pain. But we'll see.
That’s what this site has been doing for years though. Heck, they give away the base classes for free (save artificer) in the srd. Then people can buy individual subclasses and races. Seems like they’re doing pretty well with this model.
Well yes, but my point is that this is a review of the corebooks. If almost nothing changes, and I can buy the changes that interest me bit by bit, I don't see the need to buy the new books. And if the books don't sell well, for whatever reason, the launch is going to be a flop no matter how many microtransactions have been made to buy such a class, etc... All of this, obviously, is pure speculation. We still don't know what will definitely be published. But after what I saw in the last UA, I have changed my mind about buying the new corebooks (which I was very clear that I was going to buy). And it's not because I don't like the small changes that are made here and there, but because I really don't see the need. My impression is that they want to sell me some books that I already have.
In addition, there is the issue of being able to buy only what interests you. How many people are going to do that, instead of buying the entire book? Is that a good strategy? I don't know, and it's not my job to know. But from the outside it seems to me that it's not.
Also, I think they are looking at the short term, but not the long term. And I explain. There are several reasons to release a new edition of TTRPG. The most obvious is to fix things that don't work in the previous edition. But it is not less important to make a fresh start so that the players do not get tired of the game. And, obviously, there is also the commercial impact since we all know that the best seller of a TTRPG is the corebooks. They can fix things that don't work with the strategy glimpsed in the last UA, which is that everything is compatible. However, the scope is limited compared to not caring that everything is compatible. On the other hand, the fresh start seems impossible to me. Yes, it might extend the life of the game a couple of years by making small changes, but that wears out fast and doesn't alleviate the fatigue some players may have with the system. And finally, the commercial impact: if I really don't need the new corebook at all and, besides, I can buy the new things that interest me, why am I going to buy it? I could be completely wrong, but my impression is that they are not going to have the sales that are expected.
And finally, a personal anecdote. That is still just that, an anecdote. But that is what has led me to think that perhaps the 5e revised is a failure. I play in many different groups. And in those groups, most of the players were excited and wanted to buy the new books. But in the wake of the last UA, more and more voices in those groups are rising up to say they won't buy the 5e revised books. And the reason given is that there is no reason to buy them. Obviously it is a small sample, of about thirty players. But it makes me think, since I agree with his position.
The "deal is" that buy say Fighter as a class + Subclasses works out more profitable (expensive to you) for WOTC, but it will be dependant on you having the D&Done core rules for it to "function properly"/be easily playable (sure workrounds, but...) + ultimately it will make more sense for the Player/DM to just buy the whole book. Horses for courses, I've got a disposable income and could just buy the Core 3 Books (if a Monster Manual comes out), but certainly the DMG + PHB - but if I was 12 year old me, one a paper-round I'd quite possibly just buy 1 or two Classes etc. etc. I won't fault WOTC for doing it that way and if you look at what (and how) you can buy pieces of content from the PHB right now, you'd be spending more overall to buy everything eventually.
Of the maybe 15 or so players and 3 DM's I have game + social contact with - it's a good thing, the Campaigns are going well and we've been talking about that + social stuff.
No one's even mentioned D&Done. I have meant to bring it up (same as the film), but we've just been playing.
[T]hey have just announced they will no longer sell just the physical books from the official shop. If you're buying direct you will need to pay for the bundle providing you access to what you've paid for here.
Maybe this is more the result of people bellyaching for years about not being able to have books bundled with the DDB than it is about D&D becoming a DDB game. There are new threads demanding bundles that are only just a few days old. There are any number of reasons why they have only bundles up on the Wizards site that are far from troubling. Maybe this is consumer-driven and not some plot to take away consumer options. They did a test run a while back. Maybe they found that bundles on the site did better than physical books alone and that physical books alone have markedly higher sales at places like Amazon and physical shops. I do not know for sure if this was the case but it certainly could be a reason.
There's been plenty of "bellyaching" about how one should have access to content here if one has already purchased the physical books. Or that downloadable pdfs should be made available to those of who buy the physical books. Neither of these is the same as people requesting they be compelled to pay for digital as well as physical.
No one has asked for that.
They have openly said they see D&D Beyond as "the hub of the hobby." They are pouring time and money into the development of a virtual table top.
I think that makes pretty obvious they envision a D&D that is played more online than it is around tables. You might not find that troubling. I and many others do. It's an analog pastime that for decades has brought people together. There's nothing wrong with playing online. Some have little choice but to do so. But the ability to do so should be an option available for those who have little choice but to do so. Trying to push the game in a direction where that becomes the paradigm for how it is to be mostly and officially played is wrong on so many levels.
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INSPIRATIONS:Clark Ashton Smith, Mervyn Peake, Jack Vance, Michael Moorcock, Fritz Leiber, M. John Harrison, Gene Wolfe, Steven Brust, Terry Pratchett, China Miéville.
Maybe this is more the result of people bellyaching for years about not being able to have books bundled with the DDB than it is about D&D becoming a DDB game.
There's been plenty of "bellyaching" about how one should have access to content here if one has already purchased the physical books. Or that downloadable pdfs should be made available to those of who buy the physical books. Neither of these is the same as people requesting they be compelled to pay for digital as well as physical.
It is, actually. The first one is the same as that.
It is, actually. The first one is the same as that.
No it isn't. There is a big difference between people saying having purchased the books already they should then have access to that content on D&D Beyond and people asking if they can please pay for both and be given no choice otherwise.
When you purchase a record on Bandcamp or direct from many record labels you will not only receive that record in the mail but also a digital copy of that record or a download code.
When you purchase a physical role-playing book from Exalted Funeral or from one of many other online game stores or you make a pledge towards purchasing the physical copy of a role-playing book on Kickstarter you receive a pdf of that book as well as receive the physical book in the mail.
That is what people are requesting. That the purchase of a physical book grant you access to digital content. Not that you be forced to pay extra for the privilege.
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INSPIRATIONS:Clark Ashton Smith, Mervyn Peake, Jack Vance, Michael Moorcock, Fritz Leiber, M. John Harrison, Gene Wolfe, Steven Brust, Terry Pratchett, China Miéville.
You can pay a price that means you will then be able to stream some record available there. Indefinitely.
Or you can pay a price that means you will get that record in the mail. It will cost more. But you will have it in your hands.
Some think when they purchase the physical record they should then be allowed to stream it online as well. At no extra cost. They've paid more. They have the physical object. Why should they then be required to pay extra to listen to it online? they think to themselves. Many online record shops agree with these people and a physical purchase will also mean streaming of that record or a download code. At no extra cost.
But if that record shop stops physical-only sales altogether and now you can only pay the price to stream something or pay the price for streaming and for the physical record if you want the physical record that is not meeting the request of those who think the cost of the physical record should include streaming.
That is a what we call a slap in the face.
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INSPIRATIONS:Clark Ashton Smith, Mervyn Peake, Jack Vance, Michael Moorcock, Fritz Leiber, M. John Harrison, Gene Wolfe, Steven Brust, Terry Pratchett, China Miéville.
Maybe this is more the result of people bellyaching for years about not being able to have books bundled with the DDB than it is about D&D becoming a DDB game. There are new threads demanding bundles that are only just a few days old. There are any number of reasons why they have only bundles up on the Wizards site that are far from troubling. Maybe this is consumer-driven and not some plot to take away consumer options. They did a test run a while back. Maybe they found that bundles on the site did better than physical books alone and that physical books alone have markedly higher sales at places like Amazon and physical shops. I do not know for sure if this was the case but it certainly could be a reason.
There's been plenty of "bellyaching" about how one should have access to content here if one has already purchased the physical books. Or that downloadable pdfs should be made available to those of who buy the physical books. Neither of these is the same as people requesting they be compelled to pay for digital as well as physical.
No one has asked for that.
They have openly said they see D&D Beyond as "the hub of the hobby." They are pouring time and money into the development of a virtual table top.
I think that makes pretty obvious they envision a D&D that is played more online than it is around tables. You might not find that troubling. I and many others do. It's an analog pastime that for decades has brought people together. There's nothing wrong with playing online. Some have little choice but to do so. But the ability to do so should be an option available for those who have little choice but to do so. Trying to push the game in a direction where that becomes the paradigm for how it is to be mostly and officially played is wrong on so many levels.
How is the ability to play at a table being removed for you? Are you unable to play at a table with a pencil and paper now? Can you not go to your local game store and buy physical books?
Before there were bundles, WotC was decried for ignoring the demands of the players and killing the game. Now that they have it met this demand they are being accused of polluting it with digital options and killing the game. Some people refuse to be pleased.
The sky is not falling. Every medium for the game that is being asked for is either actively present or being developed. This is a good thing.
This is what I'm hoping. The one issue I'm currently having is the '5.5' Monk base class is awful, the '5.5' Shadow Monk is massively improved. I'm hoping that, if things remain backwards compatible, I could theoretically buy the '5.5' Subclass but not buy the '5.5' Base Class (or vice versa). Of course, nothing has been finalised yet as everything is still being play tested, but I wonder if players will be allowed that level of freedom once the new books are released.
#Open D&D
Have the Physical Books? Confused as to why you're not allowed to redeem them for free on D&D Beyond? Questions answered here at the Hardcover Books, D&D Beyond and You FAQ
Looking to add mouse-over triggered tooltips to such things like magic items, monsters or combat actions? Then dash over to the How to Add Tooltips thread.
Don't you think that's shooting yourself in the foot? For WoTC I mean. If you can buy only the classes that interest you, the books are not going to sell well. Except for collectors who want to have everything that is published, and new players, most will only acquire the bits they need. That can make book sales a flop.
It is increasingly clear to me that this strategy of making it "compatible" is short-term gain, long-term pain. But we'll see.
That’s what this site has been doing for years though. Heck, they give away the base classes for free (save artificer) in the srd. Then people can buy individual subclasses and races. Seems like they’re doing pretty well with this model.
It's not the same.
The physical books for 5e had been available for a few years before D&D Beyond's existence. I think it's safe to say many would have bought the physical books early on but then only paid for what they wanted digitally for use here if they thought some of the classes were hit and miss.
But it's only now we are seeing this sentiment directed at planned changes to existing classes because it's only now they are updating the books. How well that model might have served them up to this point in time is going to be moot come 2024.
It's only been since 2020—six years into what will have been the ten year existence of the current edition—since D&D Beyond has been enjoying the numbers it now does. Most players still don't play here. So whatever their model might be here that's not going to help them avoid the embarrassment of hordes of players not buying the physical books and their experiencing a sizeable drop in sales compared to those they have seen for the 5e books.
Anyone buying things piecemeal here probably owns the books already and feels they needn't pay for everything here and only needs to pay for what they need to run their games. They are but a subset of the playerbase.
We are experiencing an update. That's quite the event. If enough people don't buy the physical editions of that update because they just don't think it's worth it WOTC are going to feel that.
Perhaps the results of this poll are off. But if they're not it's not looking good for them.
Many who are even often critical of WOTC believe they were onto not just a good thing but a great thing with 5e—it brought in so many new players and brought back so many old players—but many also believe this update is unwarranted.
Not entirely unrelated to this is they have just announced they will no longer sell just the physical books from the official shop. If you're buying direct you will need to pay for the bundle providing you access to what you've paid for here. So that's already players who don't play here and who have no intention of playing here who will stop shopping direct. I think they are so invested in making Beyond "the hub of the hobby" and in their virtual table-top they have lost sight of things.
INSPIRATIONS: Clark Ashton Smith, Mervyn Peake, Jack Vance, Michael Moorcock, Fritz Leiber, M. John Harrison, Gene Wolfe, Steven Brust, Terry Pratchett, China Miéville.
SYSTEMS: ShadowDark, C&C, AD&D.
GEAR: pencils, graph paper, dice.
Oh I totally see that point, though Xalthu has kindly provided a good counterpoint.
I guess the thing is that buying piecemeal would eventually end up with a sale of the whole book - let's say the new Player's Handbook book costs $30 for the Digital Version. It's $1.99 for say the new Shadow Monk Subclass. But then I think 'screw it, I have 5 players that all want to try the new subclasses so I may as well pay $12.99 to get them all. Suddenly, paying $17.01 for the rest of the book doesn't sound so bad and I may end up buying it anyway, especially if I buy more things piecemeal like spells, magic items etc. In effect, the book would eventually end up being sold.
Of course, that's just one example and everyone has different spending habits so that scenario won't happen with everyone, but it's a possibility if they adopt the same piecemeal selling structure that happens with the current products.
#Open D&D
Have the Physical Books? Confused as to why you're not allowed to redeem them for free on D&D Beyond? Questions answered here at the Hardcover Books, D&D Beyond and You FAQ
Looking to add mouse-over triggered tooltips to such things like magic items, monsters or combat actions? Then dash over to the How to Add Tooltips thread.
Well, I certainly fall into this category, but I'm perhaps not quite as curmudgeonly as I started out as far as being now willing to wait and see rather than automatically going to "I will probably sit the next edition out."
I still must say, though, that when their sixth playtest mentions wanting to increase the versatility of the bard and then the first thing they mention after that is requiring the bard to pick at first level which of three subdivisions of bardic magic they will have access to, the logical contradiction of trying to twist my mind around to seeing how that INCREASES the bard's versatility leaves me with a mental Charley horse that's knotting up my brain muscles into one huge cramp.
Famh Thrawn Fiadhaich - 'half elven' sorcerer (wild magic) 2, Sleeping Gods - A Dragon Warriors campaign in the Lands of Legend
Quspira Inirali - tiefling cleric (Life domain) 4, Painted's "He'll be the father of my child"
---RETIRED HEROES' REST HOME---
Sae Ivui Nailo - wood elf rogue (inquisitive) 5 , Sea of Death: Captain Hailstorm's Lost Treasure
Ryshraxea "Shra" Naranthi - tabaxi artificer 1, Nyx's Tomb of Annihilation - Group 1
It increases the versatility of the Bard CLASS, not the versatility of any individual Bard character.
Sorry, what?
Well, it does look like an improvement over 5e, so... It just might not be enough of an improvement. I'll wait and see how it compares to PF2e.
Don't know. It looks like they are pulling back on big changes so it remains backwards compatible. But if you don't make big changes why would I buy it as I have 95% of it already. And some of the big changes they have made I just don't like. Such as weapon masteries. These feel like the kind of ability you like the first 2 times you play with it but come to loathe. I trip, I trip, I Trip, I trip, I trip, I trip. How did that add any value to my game. Sure on a balance scale martials are more powerful with it. So I guess that is a win, but its boring as heck pretty dang quick. Give martials actual maneuvers one of which is just more damage. Because you don't always have to trip, disarm, shove every time you swing a sword. Sometimes you just want to kill them. That would be a big change and one I'd like.
but hey its still has 8-10 months of play testing, then another 2-3 months where they ignore everything in the play test and just add a bunch of stuff without testing, after which it goes to the printer and by then maybe it will be something that looks good.
Right now its better in some ways worse in others so its a mixed bag not worth getting.
Hybrid bundles remain available. But Wizards are no longer selling physical-only: https://dndstore.wizards.com/us/corerules
Can still purchase just the physical books from a physical shop or from Amazon of course.
But it's becoming more and more apparent that Wizards are increasingly seeing D&D as a game to be played here and not around tables. That's worrying.
INSPIRATIONS: Clark Ashton Smith, Mervyn Peake, Jack Vance, Michael Moorcock, Fritz Leiber, M. John Harrison, Gene Wolfe, Steven Brust, Terry Pratchett, China Miéville.
SYSTEMS: ShadowDark, C&C, AD&D.
GEAR: pencils, graph paper, dice.
I believe they’re listening. Their jobs depend on keeping players happy. But they’re also professionals with more experience than us (not you personally) folks who like to mostly just throw around average dpr numbers like that’s all that matters when comparing different characters. They also, unlike us, have access to 10’s of thousands of responses from the surveys, so it may be our opinions here are simply not in the majority.
In short, listening to someone isn’t the same as doing what they say. One can listen, give thoughts consideration, and still disagree.
Maybe this is more the result of people bellyaching for years about not being able to have books bundled with the DDB than it is about D&D becoming a DDB game. There are new threads demanding bundles that are only just a few days old. There are any number of reasons why they have only bundles up on the Wizards site that are far from troubling. Maybe this is consumer-driven and not some plot to take away consumer options. They did a test run a while back. Maybe they found that bundles on the site did better than physical books alone and that physical books alone have markedly higher sales at places like Amazon and physical shops. I do not know for sure if this was the case but it certainly could be a reason.
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Well yes, but my point is that this is a review of the corebooks. If almost nothing changes, and I can buy the changes that interest me bit by bit, I don't see the need to buy the new books. And if the books don't sell well, for whatever reason, the launch is going to be a flop no matter how many microtransactions have been made to buy such a class, etc... All of this, obviously, is pure speculation. We still don't know what will definitely be published. But after what I saw in the last UA, I have changed my mind about buying the new corebooks (which I was very clear that I was going to buy). And it's not because I don't like the small changes that are made here and there, but because I really don't see the need. My impression is that they want to sell me some books that I already have.
In addition, there is the issue of being able to buy only what interests you. How many people are going to do that, instead of buying the entire book? Is that a good strategy? I don't know, and it's not my job to know. But from the outside it seems to me that it's not.
Also, I think they are looking at the short term, but not the long term. And I explain. There are several reasons to release a new edition of TTRPG. The most obvious is to fix things that don't work in the previous edition. But it is not less important to make a fresh start so that the players do not get tired of the game. And, obviously, there is also the commercial impact since we all know that the best seller of a TTRPG is the corebooks. They can fix things that don't work with the strategy glimpsed in the last UA, which is that everything is compatible. However, the scope is limited compared to not caring that everything is compatible. On the other hand, the fresh start seems impossible to me. Yes, it might extend the life of the game a couple of years by making small changes, but that wears out fast and doesn't alleviate the fatigue some players may have with the system. And finally, the commercial impact: if I really don't need the new corebook at all and, besides, I can buy the new things that interest me, why am I going to buy it? I could be completely wrong, but my impression is that they are not going to have the sales that are expected.
And finally, a personal anecdote. That is still just that, an anecdote. But that is what has led me to think that perhaps the 5e revised is a failure. I play in many different groups. And in those groups, most of the players were excited and wanted to buy the new books. But in the wake of the last UA, more and more voices in those groups are rising up to say they won't buy the 5e revised books. And the reason given is that there is no reason to buy them. Obviously it is a small sample, of about thirty players. But it makes me think, since I agree with his position.
The "deal is" that buy say Fighter as a class + Subclasses works out more profitable (expensive to you) for WOTC, but it will be dependant on you having the D&Done core rules for it to "function properly"/be easily playable (sure workrounds, but...) + ultimately it will make more sense for the Player/DM to just buy the whole book.
Horses for courses, I've got a disposable income and could just buy the Core 3 Books (if a Monster Manual comes out), but certainly the DMG + PHB - but if I was 12 year old me, one a paper-round I'd quite possibly just buy 1 or two Classes etc. etc. I won't fault WOTC for doing it that way and if you look at what (and how) you can buy pieces of content from the PHB right now, you'd be spending more overall to buy everything eventually.
Of the maybe 15 or so players and 3 DM's I have game + social contact with - it's a good thing, the Campaigns are going well and we've been talking about that + social stuff.
No one's even mentioned D&Done. I have meant to bring it up (same as the film), but we've just been playing.
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Wow, this is the first time I've ever seen that storefront.
Wizards' online D&D presence is a mess. I went searching for "D&D news" and the news feed hasn't updated since 2022.
There's been plenty of "bellyaching" about how one should have access to content here if one has already purchased the physical books. Or that downloadable pdfs should be made available to those of who buy the physical books. Neither of these is the same as people requesting they be compelled to pay for digital as well as physical.
No one has asked for that.
They have openly said they see D&D Beyond as "the hub of the hobby." They are pouring time and money into the development of a virtual table top.
I think that makes pretty obvious they envision a D&D that is played more online than it is around tables. You might not find that troubling. I and many others do. It's an analog pastime that for decades has brought people together. There's nothing wrong with playing online. Some have little choice but to do so. But the ability to do so should be an option available for those who have little choice but to do so. Trying to push the game in a direction where that becomes the paradigm for how it is to be mostly and officially played is wrong on so many levels.
INSPIRATIONS: Clark Ashton Smith, Mervyn Peake, Jack Vance, Michael Moorcock, Fritz Leiber, M. John Harrison, Gene Wolfe, Steven Brust, Terry Pratchett, China Miéville.
SYSTEMS: ShadowDark, C&C, AD&D.
GEAR: pencils, graph paper, dice.
It is, actually. The first one is the same as that.
No it isn't. There is a big difference between people saying having purchased the books already they should then have access to that content on D&D Beyond and people asking if they can please pay for both and be given no choice otherwise.
When you purchase a record on Bandcamp or direct from many record labels you will not only receive that record in the mail but also a digital copy of that record or a download code.
When you purchase a physical role-playing book from Exalted Funeral or from one of many other online game stores or you make a pledge towards purchasing the physical copy of a role-playing book on Kickstarter you receive a pdf of that book as well as receive the physical book in the mail.
That is what people are requesting. That the purchase of a physical book grant you access to digital content. Not that you be forced to pay extra for the privilege.
INSPIRATIONS: Clark Ashton Smith, Mervyn Peake, Jack Vance, Michael Moorcock, Fritz Leiber, M. John Harrison, Gene Wolfe, Steven Brust, Terry Pratchett, China Miéville.
SYSTEMS: ShadowDark, C&C, AD&D.
GEAR: pencils, graph paper, dice.
Imagine an online record shop.
You can pay a price that means you will then be able to stream some record available there. Indefinitely.
Or you can pay a price that means you will get that record in the mail. It will cost more. But you will have it in your hands.
Some think when they purchase the physical record they should then be allowed to stream it online as well. At no extra cost. They've paid more. They have the physical object. Why should they then be required to pay extra to listen to it online? they think to themselves. Many online record shops agree with these people and a physical purchase will also mean streaming of that record or a download code. At no extra cost.
But if that record shop stops physical-only sales altogether and now you can only pay the price to stream something or pay the price for streaming and for the physical record if you want the physical record that is not meeting the request of those who think the cost of the physical record should include streaming.
That is a what we call a slap in the face.
INSPIRATIONS: Clark Ashton Smith, Mervyn Peake, Jack Vance, Michael Moorcock, Fritz Leiber, M. John Harrison, Gene Wolfe, Steven Brust, Terry Pratchett, China Miéville.
SYSTEMS: ShadowDark, C&C, AD&D.
GEAR: pencils, graph paper, dice.
How is the ability to play at a table being removed for you? Are you unable to play at a table with a pencil and paper now? Can you not go to your local game store and buy physical books?
Before there were bundles, WotC was decried for ignoring the demands of the players and killing the game. Now that they have it met this demand they are being accused of polluting it with digital options and killing the game. Some people refuse to be pleased.
The sky is not falling. Every medium for the game that is being asked for is either actively present or being developed. This is a good thing.
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