Many people did not like TCOE, and TCOE sales still turned out fine. I do not think the second set of core books is going to be any different, and I am pretty sure they will still sell like hotcakes like any other sourcebooks. Hell, with how incomplete Beyond is, Beyond is still doing fine.
That's because a lot of people don't care about places like this or other forums. They don't follow UA releases or controversies. They buy DnD because it's DnD. And DnDB, well my theory is that COVID pushed most of us online and for that DnDB was an easy and good place to do that. First through Discord bots or VTT integration on other sites, later through the updated character sheets.
If other publishers are happy to give away digital versions of their game products with any physical purchase why is it so unreasonable to expect this of WOTC? Why?
Why would Wizards do it?
One bad PR move and D&D could go the way of BudLight. Inside of a few months they could back slide out of first place.
That you think Budweiser is in any danger of falling from grace is very funny to me. Also, in case you're not aware, Wizards is already four or five bad PR moves deep since this time last year. They're evidently doing okay for it, so I think your reasoning isn't holding up.
It's annoying that it seems like I'm out here defending Wizards for free, because honestly I'm pretty unhappy with them generally, and they certainly don't need my help. (And I could use the paycheck!) But look, if you put all your hope for change in faulty rationale, then you're just going to be disappointed over and over again and burn out.
That you think Budweiser is in any danger of falling from grace is very funny to me.
???
I... guess that depends on what you mean by "falling from grace?"
At least in the US, their losses have been in the tens of billions, the stock has nosedived, the sales are abysmal (down 30% last I saw, and that's just what they'll admit to,) and the memes are rampant. Entire communities refuse to touch the stuff now--on both sides of the controversy--and there's zero evidence most of their lost customers will ever return (especially now that they've had time for their new purchasing habits to settle in.) They've lost their #1 market position, and literally have had bottling plants close due to lack of sales; and the sad part is, the numbers suggest it's getting worse for them, not better.
The parent company will do fine, and I'm sure AB will (eventually) find some way to pivot, but as of this moment Bud Light is looking like a dead brand.
Also, in case you're not aware, Wizards is already four or five bad PR moves deep since this time last year. They're evidently doing okay for it, so I think your reasoning isn't holding up.
I'd love to see actual evidence of that being the case. (And I mainly mean that rhetorically, I don't expect you to actually throw anything about that onto this thread.)
From everything I've seen, even if their recent behavior isn't "ending" them, the impact of at least the OGL fiasco has been financially significant, and has subsequently prompted action on their part to address it.
I do not think a poll with biased language on a site with a handful of active posters, some of whom are disgruntled busy bodies that have no problem skewing a poll for lulz, is going to be representative of the D&D population or their behaviors. The UA surveys, which have a staggeringly large n, is a much better measure of who will be playing and the feedback in those surveys are what WotC is betting on.
I saw this poll from a google. I moved my games to cypher system because I got tired of wizards antics lately with with a bleak looking future. We're finding it fits our specific style of game better. There is no harm in experimenting around for what fits your table using small adventures in 1-4 shots and if 5e still fits best the it's still good to know. One D&D and wizards recent antics was just enough to motivate us to experiment.
I do not think a poll with biased language on a site with a handful of active posters, some of whom are disgruntled busy bodies that have no problem skewing a poll for lulz, is going to be representative of the D&D population or their behaviors. The UA surveys, which have a staggeringly large n, is a much better measure of who will be playing and the feedback in those surveys are what WotC is betting on.
Okay its not only biased people who join this and vote. The question isnt beconing only biased people. Its asking what anyone who hopes on thinks.
Are you sure you are addressing the content of my post?
I do not think a poll with biased language on a site with a handful of active posters, some of whom are disgruntled busy bodies that have no problem skewing a poll for lulz, is going to be representative of the D&D population or their behaviors. The UA surveys, which have a staggeringly large n, is a much better measure of who will be playing and the feedback in those surveys are what WotC is betting on.
Okay its not only biased people who join this and vote. The question isnt beconing only biased people. Its asking what anyone who hopes on thinks.
It doesn’t have to only be biased people, it only takes a few (or even just one) to skew the results, particularly with this small of a sample size. In addition to how easy it is for one person to vote multiple times, internet polls are all pretty much universally meaningless. The response group is self-selecting, the numbers are unweighted, and there are a number of other technical issues compared to an actual poll. It can be fun to look at, but it’s nothing more than fun.
I do not think a poll with biased language on a site with a handful of active posters, some of whom are disgruntled busy bodies that have no problem skewing a poll for lulz, is going to be representative of the D&D population or their behaviors. The UA surveys, which have a staggeringly large n, is a much better measure of who will be playing and the feedback in those surveys are what WotC is betting on.
The ultimate gauge of its success or failure will be the sales figures themselves.
I've stuck to "if" in this thread when talking about that poll.
If this year has taught us anything it's that neither pure speculation nor outright dismissal of it is particularly wise.
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INSPIRATIONS:Clark Ashton Smith, Mervyn Peake, Jack Vance, Michael Moorcock, Fritz Leiber, M. John Harrison, Gene Wolfe, Steven Brust, Terry Pratchett, China Miéville.
It doesn’t have to only be biased people, it only takes a few (or even just one) to skew the results, particularly with this small of a sample size. In addition to how easy it is for one person to vote multiple times, internet polls are all pretty much universally meaningless. The response group is self-selecting, the numbers are unweighted, and there are a number of other technical issues compared to an actual poll. It can be fun to look at, but it’s nothing more than fun.
What you say here is true.
Again: I've stuck to "if" in this thread when talking about that poll. There's really no knowing if those results accurately capture what most feel or think about making that switch.
But you have to wonder if those quick to dismiss those poll results would be so eager to do so if those results went in the other direction. Speaking of bias.
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INSPIRATIONS:Clark Ashton Smith, Mervyn Peake, Jack Vance, Michael Moorcock, Fritz Leiber, M. John Harrison, Gene Wolfe, Steven Brust, Terry Pratchett, China Miéville.
It doesn’t have to only be biased people, it only takes a few (or even just one) to skew the results, particularly with this small of a sample size. In addition to how easy it is for one person to vote multiple times, internet polls are all pretty much universally meaningless. The response group is self-selecting, the numbers are unweighted, and there are a number of other technical issues compared to an actual poll. It can be fun to look at, but it’s nothing more than fun.
What you say here is true.
Again: I've stuck to "if" in this thread when talking about that poll. There's really no knowing if those results accurately capture what most feel or think about making that switch.
But you have to wonder if those quick to dismiss those poll results would be so eager to do so if those results went in the other direction. Speaking of bias.
Mmm I voted to sit this one out, but I do agree that open internet polls are at best a possible indicator of how part of a community or group thinks, feels or behaves. And this at a specific point in time.
Most do. Some however are so mired in bias they will take them much more seriously when the results skew their way.
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INSPIRATIONS:Clark Ashton Smith, Mervyn Peake, Jack Vance, Michael Moorcock, Fritz Leiber, M. John Harrison, Gene Wolfe, Steven Brust, Terry Pratchett, China Miéville.
I believe that this can happen, there are very silly people out there. However, there is a button to view the results without voting.
On the other hand, regarding the failure or not of sales, it cannot be done in comparison with other companies if not with respect to their own expectations.
I mean, if WoTC wants to sell 100, and it sells 80, it will be a flop even if the immediate competitor sells 40. So the very notion of losing customers, even if not en masse, terrifies them. And that's why they change things in the playtest that were going in the right direction simply because some people have complained. I think his idea is that anything even slightly controversial has to be redone as it was in the 2014 edition. A cowardly idea, and also, IMO, wrong.
I believe that this can happen, there are very silly people out there. However, there is a button to view the results without voting.
On the other hand, regarding the failure or not of sales, it cannot be done in comparison with other companies if not with respect to their own expectations.
I mean, if WoTC wants to sell 100, and it sells 80, it will be a flop even if the immediate competitor sells 40. So the very notion of losing customers, even if not en masse, terrifies them. And that's why they change things in the playtest that were going in the right direction simply because some people have complained. I think his idea is that anything even slightly controversial has to be redone as it was in the 2014 edition. A cowardly idea, and also, IMO, wrong.
but it seems impossible to please EVERYONE. theres always gonna be some people who arent gonna buy im sure.
Sure and they have calculated that into their expected sales numbers. If they miss their mark by 20% that's a pretty big drop.
i think their biggest issue with us is that a lot of us dont support their VTT. Not just by not using it but the fact that we would discourage others from using VTTs. (if they cannot play in person then i a VTT is fine) and we just dont like the way a VTT will take the hobby.
Dude, there is nothing wrong with Wizards making a VTT. You've repeatedly said that people should be discouraged from using a VTT and should only play on one if they have no other way to do so. However, what if someone likes a VTT more than physical D&D? What if it's more convenient or enjoyable for them, even though they do have other feasible options?
Should people be "discouraged" from playing pen and paper D&D just because that means it might be slightly harder for those who use Virtual Tabletops to find groups? No, of course not, there's room for everyone to play D&D how they want and no one should be told otherwise. Just like this philosophy doesn't work, the reverse of it - discouraging people from playing on VTTs for the benefit of those who play in person - is also a flawed belief that penalizes some for the gain of others.
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BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explainHERE.
Not switching. I'm sticking to 5e; One D&D isn't fixing any of 5e's fundamental issues, so I'm not buying fancy new books. I already have the 5e ones, and they were damned expensive! Books as a whole are a conundrum, unlike a video game you can't simply just make patches without charging people again and again for the "latest book" (which people nope out of pretty quick), so official changes have to be taken into a new version or online, which creates a whole new issue of "by the book" vs "official", when the book is generally conceived to be official. Thankfully, we have DMs to make all of these rulings for us... Unless you're the DM, then good luck
Depends on what my group chooses, but my hope is running with the 5.5 rules rather than the 5.0 rules.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
That's because a lot of people don't care about places like this or other forums. They don't follow UA releases or controversies. They buy DnD because it's DnD. And DnDB, well my theory is that COVID pushed most of us online and for that DnDB was an easy and good place to do that. First through Discord bots or VTT integration on other sites, later through the updated character sheets.
That you think Budweiser is in any danger of falling from grace is very funny to me. Also, in case you're not aware, Wizards is already four or five bad PR moves deep since this time last year. They're evidently doing okay for it, so I think your reasoning isn't holding up.
It's annoying that it seems like I'm out here defending Wizards for free, because honestly I'm pretty unhappy with them generally, and they certainly don't need my help. (And I could use the paycheck!) But look, if you put all your hope for change in faulty rationale, then you're just going to be disappointed over and over again and burn out.
???
I... guess that depends on what you mean by "falling from grace?"
At least in the US, their losses have been in the tens of billions, the stock has nosedived, the sales are abysmal (down 30% last I saw, and that's just what they'll admit to,) and the memes are rampant. Entire communities refuse to touch the stuff now--on both sides of the controversy--and there's zero evidence most of their lost customers will ever return (especially now that they've had time for their new purchasing habits to settle in.) They've lost their #1 market position, and literally have had bottling plants close due to lack of sales; and the sad part is, the numbers suggest it's getting worse for them, not better.
The parent company will do fine, and I'm sure AB will (eventually) find some way to pivot, but as of this moment Bud Light is looking like a dead brand.
I'd love to see actual evidence of that being the case. (And I mainly mean that rhetorically, I don't expect you to actually throw anything about that onto this thread.)
From everything I've seen, even if their recent behavior isn't "ending" them, the impact of at least the OGL fiasco has been financially significant, and has subsequently prompted action on their part to address it.
Sterling - V. Human Bard 3 (College of Art) - [Pic] - [Traits] - in Bards: Dragon Heist (w/ Mansion) - Jasper's [Pic] - Sterling's [Sigil]
Tooltips Post (2024 PHB updates) - incl. General Rules
>> New FOW threat & treasure tables: fow-advanced-threat-tables.pdf fow-advanced-treasure-table.pdf
I do not think a poll with biased language on a site with a handful of active posters, some of whom are disgruntled busy bodies that have no problem skewing a poll for lulz, is going to be representative of the D&D population or their behaviors. The UA surveys, which have a staggeringly large n, is a much better measure of who will be playing and the feedback in those surveys are what WotC is betting on.
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I saw this poll from a google. I moved my games to cypher system because I got tired of wizards antics lately with with a bleak looking future. We're finding it fits our specific style of game better. There is no harm in experimenting around for what fits your table using small adventures in 1-4 shots and if 5e still fits best the it's still good to know. One D&D and wizards recent antics was just enough to motivate us to experiment.
Are you sure you are addressing the content of my post?
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EXTENDED SIGNATURE!
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Try DDB free: Free Rules (2024), premade PCs, adventures, one shots, encounters, SC, homebrew, more
Answers: physical books, purchases, and subbing.
Check out my life-changing
It doesn’t have to only be biased people, it only takes a few (or even just one) to skew the results, particularly with this small of a sample size. In addition to how easy it is for one person to vote multiple times, internet polls are all pretty much universally meaningless. The response group is self-selecting, the numbers are unweighted, and there are a number of other technical issues compared to an actual poll. It can be fun to look at, but it’s nothing more than fun.
The ultimate gauge of its success or failure will be the sales figures themselves.
I've stuck to "if" in this thread when talking about that poll.
If this year has taught us anything it's that neither pure speculation nor outright dismissal of it is particularly wise.
INSPIRATIONS: Clark Ashton Smith, Mervyn Peake, Jack Vance, Michael Moorcock, Fritz Leiber, M. John Harrison, Gene Wolfe, Steven Brust, Terry Pratchett, China Miéville.
SYSTEMS: ShadowDark, C&C, AD&D.
GEAR: pencils, graph paper, dice.
What you say here is true.
Again: I've stuck to "if" in this thread when talking about that poll. There's really no knowing if those results accurately capture what most feel or think about making that switch.
But you have to wonder if those quick to dismiss those poll results would be so eager to do so if those results went in the other direction. Speaking of bias.
INSPIRATIONS: Clark Ashton Smith, Mervyn Peake, Jack Vance, Michael Moorcock, Fritz Leiber, M. John Harrison, Gene Wolfe, Steven Brust, Terry Pratchett, China Miéville.
SYSTEMS: ShadowDark, C&C, AD&D.
GEAR: pencils, graph paper, dice.
Mmm I voted to sit this one out, but I do agree that open internet polls are at best a possible indicator of how part of a community or group thinks, feels or behaves. And this at a specific point in time.
I take online polls for exactly what they are: generally flawed and occasionally fun. Nothing more.
DM mostly, Player occasionally | Session 0 form | He/Him/They/Them
EXTENDED SIGNATURE!
Doctor/Published Scholar/Science and Healthcare Advocate/Critter/Trekkie/Gandalf with a Glock
Try DDB free: Free Rules (2024), premade PCs, adventures, one shots, encounters, SC, homebrew, more
Answers: physical books, purchases, and subbing.
Check out my life-changing
Most do. Some however are so mired in bias they will take them much more seriously when the results skew their way.
INSPIRATIONS: Clark Ashton Smith, Mervyn Peake, Jack Vance, Michael Moorcock, Fritz Leiber, M. John Harrison, Gene Wolfe, Steven Brust, Terry Pratchett, China Miéville.
SYSTEMS: ShadowDark, C&C, AD&D.
GEAR: pencils, graph paper, dice.
I believe that this can happen, there are very silly people out there. However, there is a button to view the results without voting.
On the other hand, regarding the failure or not of sales, it cannot be done in comparison with other companies if not with respect to their own expectations.
I mean, if WoTC wants to sell 100, and it sells 80, it will be a flop even if the immediate competitor sells 40. So the very notion of losing customers, even if not en masse, terrifies them. And that's why they change things in the playtest that were going in the right direction simply because some people have complained. I think his idea is that anything even slightly controversial has to be redone as it was in the 2014 edition. A cowardly idea, and also, IMO, wrong.
Sure and they have calculated that into their expected sales numbers. If they miss their mark by 20% that's a pretty big drop.
i will join a one dnd game when it comes out, but i will try to keep most my games 5e
the way they have been talking in the videos is that is 20% of the people hate it, that is a B grade for them, which they think is a win.
Dude, there is nothing wrong with Wizards making a VTT. You've repeatedly said that people should be discouraged from using a VTT and should only play on one if they have no other way to do so. However, what if someone likes a VTT more than physical D&D? What if it's more convenient or enjoyable for them, even though they do have other feasible options?
Should people be "discouraged" from playing pen and paper D&D just because that means it might be slightly harder for those who use Virtual Tabletops to find groups? No, of course not, there's room for everyone to play D&D how they want and no one should be told otherwise. Just like this philosophy doesn't work, the reverse of it - discouraging people from playing on VTTs for the benefit of those who play in person - is also a flawed belief that penalizes some for the gain of others.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.Not switching. I'm sticking to 5e; One D&D isn't fixing any of 5e's fundamental issues, so I'm not buying fancy new books. I already have the 5e ones, and they were damned expensive! Books as a whole are a conundrum, unlike a video game you can't simply just make patches without charging people again and again for the "latest book" (which people nope out of pretty quick), so official changes have to be taken into a new version or online, which creates a whole new issue of "by the book" vs "official", when the book is generally conceived to be official. Thankfully, we have DMs to make all of these rulings for us... Unless you're the DM, then good luck
【 D E S C E N T 】
Depends on what my group chooses, but my hope is running with the 5.5 rules rather than the 5.0 rules.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
No idea at this point. I'm going to have to actually get and read the new PHB and get my group's feedback as well.
I have a strong feeling we'll likely end up running a hybrid/heavily houseruled game.