In the UA, the Path of the Giant Barbarian gained the ability to throw their weapon and have it magically return to them at level six, alongside some elemental damage, the throwing part of this has sadly been removed in the offical release:
UA Read:
Elemental Cleaver 6th-Level Path of the Giant Feature Your bond with the elemental might of giants and their ilk grows, and you learn to infuse weapons with primordial energy.
When you enter your rage, you can infuse one weapon of your choice that you are holding with one of the following damage types: acid, cold, fire, thunder, or lightning. While you wield the infused weapon during your rage, the weapon’s damage type changes to the chosen type, it deals an extra 1d6 damage of the chosen type when it hits, and it gains the thrown property, with a normal range of 20 feet and a long range of 60 feet. If you throw the weapon, it reappears in your hand the instant after it hits or misses a target. The infused weapon’s benefits are suppressed while a creature other than you wields it.
While raging and holding the infused weapon, you can use a bonus action to change the infused weapon’s current damage type to a different one from the above damage types.
Offical release reads:
Elemental Cleaver 6th-Level Path of the Giant Feature Your bond with the elemental might of giants grows, and you learn to infuse weapons with primordial energy.
When you enter your rage, you can choose one weapon that you are holding and infuse it with one of the following damage types: acid, cold, fire, thunder or lightning. While you wield the unfused weapon during your rage, the weapon's damage type changes to the chosen type, it deals and extra 1d6 damage of the chosen type when it hits.
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D&D, Youth Work and the Priesthood sadly do not typically interact... I do what I can!
https://youtu.be/tDvZbAybpV0 (seeing the book, but only first half of the subclass) https://youtu.be/vhdzNMHIvNM (throwing missing) https://youtu.be/f15C3UIeKBY (whereas this one does say the thrown weapon part continues, and in a key way it is any weapon - which does mean btw that throwing a heavy crossbow at people can make a powerful but goofy build that I was looking forward to) https://youtu.be/0wsec-M3EeI (nerd emersion commenting on the above video)
also on several websites, but clearly I just over-reacted to missing info :-)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
D&D, Youth Work and the Priesthood sadly do not typically interact... I do what I can!
A thrown heavy crossbow would be an improvised weapon and only do 1d4 damage on a hit, and you wouldn’t be able to add your PB to the attack roll either.
I believe that would be incorrect, see the way that Elemental Clever WAS worded and appears to still be is that:
You can infuse your weapon (ANY Weapon) with d6 and it gains thrown 20/60. This means if you use a ranged weapon then you can use all the same Dart Sharpshooter options for heavy ranged damaged (especially with Battlemaster Quick Toss) but with a larger damage die and returning weapon without having to owe an artificer a favour (you get around the non-magical part anyway with the infused changed and extra damage)
Yes, it would gain the d6 elemental damage and all the rest of the bonuses from the feature, but throwing a heavy crossbow would still be using it as an improvised weapon (as opposed to shooting it), so the damage die would drop from 1d10 down to 1d4, and you wouldn’t be able to add your PB to the attack roll unless you also had the tavern brawler feat too. So you can go ahead and believe anything you want, but that don’t make it true. Half of America believes the last presidential election was stolen and the other half don’t. One side still has to be wrong, regardless of their beliefs. This is much the same thing.
Well that was surprisingly passive aggressive, but I’ll bite, does this mean with your ruling that any weapon infused with the elemental damage would also be 1d4 +1d6 damage?
As throwing a weapon is an improvised attack, apparently, even if it gains the thrown property from a more specific subclass rule?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
D&D, Youth Work and the Priesthood sadly do not typically interact... I do what I can!
just let them throw their crossbow for "full" damage if that's so important to them. or anyway, 'ask your dm.'
new question: is a thrown crossbow still in sufficient shape to qualify as a (non improvised) weapon for the second throw? nothing about this feature suggests magic making the thing more sturdy.
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unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: providefeedback!
Hehehe, good point - it would probably need to be reinforced in some way (perhaps magically) to stand up to that treatment for very long!
But my point is that the subclass as it seems to be worded still does appear to allow for this quirky new ranged weapon that would benefit from Sharpshooter and grant some new build opportunities. Heck, with Crossbow Expert you could still get the free bonus action attack if you used a Hand Crossbow instead.
If adding the thrown property to a melee weapon makes it no longer an improvised ranged attack - then the same appears to follow for a ranged attack (which if in the theatre of the mind that appears wonky, bear in mind that I wouldn’t want a larger than life Warhammer or a Crossbow thrown at me by a 12ft tall behemoth) 🤣
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
D&D, Youth Work and the Priesthood sadly do not typically interact... I do what I can!
...If adding the thrown property to a melee weapon makes it no longer an improvised ranged attack - then the same appears to follow for a ranged attack (which if in the theatre of the mind that appears wonky, bear in mind that I wouldn’t want a larger than life Warhammer or a Crossbow thrown at me by a 12ft tall behemoth) 🤣
honestly, i don't think rules as intended meant for someone to toss a longbow for more damage than a hand axe. i don't think it really follows like logic. but I'd rule-of-cool it for a player once.
if devs really meant you to be tossing random things that didn't start off as melee weapons then they would have named shields right away, obviously.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: providefeedback!
Well that was surprisingly passive aggressive, but I’ll bite, does this mean with your ruling that any weapon infused with the elemental damage would also be 1d4 +1d6 damage?
As throwing a weapon is an improvised attack, apparently, even if it gains the thrown property from a more specific subclass rule?
No, because it is a melee weapon that has gained the thrown property from a specific subclass rule. But if you use a crossbow as a melee weapon it is an improvised weapon, so even if you give it the thrown property it is still a thrown improvised weapon. Hitting someone with a crossbow is not the same as shooting someone with a crossbow, and throwing a crossbow is closer to hitting someone with it than shooting them with it. Ipso facto….
Well that was surprisingly passive aggressive, but I’ll bite, does this mean with your ruling that any weapon infused with the elemental damage would also be 1d4 +1d6 damage?
As throwing a weapon is an improvised attack, apparently, even if it gains the thrown property from a more specific subclass rule?
No, because it is a melee weapon that has gained the thrown property from a specific subclass rule. But if you use a crossbow as a melee weapon it is an improvised weapon, so even if you give it the thrown property it is still a thrown improvised weapon. Hitting someone with a crossbow is not the same as shooting someone with a crossbow, and throwing a crossbow is closer to hitting someone with it than shooting them with it. Ipso facto….
Ahh, I understand your confusion, see the rule refers to ‘a weapon’, not ‘a melee weapon’ as you appear to be reading it. Otherwise you would be right, simply as it appears to be published you could add this 1d6 to a bow you shoot people with, but as it also gains the thrown property this has inspired me to theory craft some more unusual options.
Perhaps this misreading is because MOST thrown weapons are melee weapons as well, but then I would point you towards the trusty Dart which can benefit from Sharpshooter, which also leads to some fun builds post Tasha’s
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
D&D, Youth Work and the Priesthood sadly do not typically interact... I do what I can!
...If adding the thrown property to a melee weapon makes it no longer an improvised ranged attack - then the same appears to follow for a ranged attack (which if in the theatre of the mind that appears wonky, bear in mind that I wouldn’t want a larger than life Warhammer or a Crossbow thrown at me by a 12ft tall behemoth) 🤣
honestly, i don't think rules as intended meant for someone to toss a longbow for more damage than a hand axe. i don't think it really follows like logic. but I'd rule-of-cool it for a player once.
if devs really meant you to be tossing random things that didn't start off as melee weapons then they would have named shields right away, obviously.
Oh I well understand this it is funny, but you are a barbarian afterall. Tossing random things though would require the Tavern Brawler feat as said above though… but after that you easily make a Captain America build if you so wanted :-)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
D&D, Youth Work and the Priesthood sadly do not typically interact... I do what I can!
Well that was surprisingly passive aggressive, but I’ll bite, does this mean with your ruling that any weapon infused with the elemental damage would also be 1d4 +1d6 damage?
As throwing a weapon is an improvised attack, apparently, even if it gains the thrown property from a more specific subclass rule?
No, because it is a melee weapon that has gained the thrown property from a specific subclass rule. But if you use a crossbow as a melee weapon it is an improvised weapon, so even if you give it the thrown property it is still a thrown improvised weapon. Hitting someone with a crossbow is not the same as shooting someone with a crossbow, and throwing a crossbow is closer to hitting someone with it than shooting them with it. Ipso facto….
Ahh, I understand your confusion, see the rule refers to ‘a weapon’, not ‘a melee weapon’ as you appear to be reading it. Otherwise you would be right, simply as it appears to be published you could add this 1d6 to a bow you shoot people with, but as it also gains the thrown property this has inspired me to theory craft some more unusual options.
Perhaps this misreading is because MOST thrown weapons are melee weapons as well, but then I would point you towards the trusty Dart which can benefit from Sharpshooter, which also leads to some fun builds post Tasha’s
I am not ”confused,” I did not “misread” a Goddamned thing, and I am well aware of the dart’s existence (and the net’s too), thank you very much. Your condescension is noted, but not appreciated. If you want to treat throwing a crossbow at someone as if it’s the same as shooting them with it then have at it, but that’s not possibly RAI, nor is it RAW in my interpretation. It would be the same as hitting someone with it which would qualify as an improvised weapon RAW, only thrown instead. But if you wanna go all Chester Cheetah on it, be my guest, I don’t have to play at your table, and you sure as hell wouldn’t get away with that malarkey at mine.
Okay, sorry I did not mean to offend. I just wanted to explore some fun new options but this conversation isn’t going anywhere and has become quite uncivil, which is sad really. I’ll ask a mod to close the thread
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
D&D, Youth Work and the Priesthood sadly do not typically interact... I do what I can!
topic adjacent, i wonder where the devs came up with the pick-an-element boomerang combination. throwing more stuff? cool. primal damage? okay. but someone looked at giants and thought "light-up yo-yo!" ...and now i wonder just how quirky this book i preordered is going to be. there's a whole thread about the UA not paying off in interesting changes but this silly thing slips through?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: providefeedback!
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In the UA, the Path of the Giant Barbarian gained the ability to throw their weapon and have it magically return to them at level six, alongside some elemental damage, the throwing part of this has sadly been removed in the offical release:
UA Read:
Offical release reads:
The return to your hand part is still there according to Nerd Immersion. My copy unlocks in 5 days so I can't confirm directly.
Yeah, mine isn't unlocked yet either.
Okay, thanks I will hold out hope that I missed a part off when I read :-)
The instantly returning to your hand part is still there. I can confirm it.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Good to know. I'm curious where OP's incorrect info came from then.
edit: typo
I got my info by scouting around:
https://youtu.be/tDvZbAybpV0 (seeing the book, but only first half of the subclass)
https://youtu.be/vhdzNMHIvNM (throwing missing)
https://youtu.be/f15C3UIeKBY (whereas this one does say the thrown weapon part continues, and in a key way it is any weapon - which does mean btw that throwing a heavy crossbow at people can make a powerful but goofy build that I was looking forward to)
https://youtu.be/0wsec-M3EeI (nerd emersion commenting on the above video)
also on several websites, but clearly I just over-reacted to missing info :-)
A thrown heavy crossbow would be an improvised weapon and only do 1d4 damage on a hit, and you wouldn’t be able to add your PB to the attack roll either.
I believe that would be incorrect, see the way that Elemental Clever WAS worded and appears to still be is that:
You can infuse your weapon (ANY Weapon) with d6 and it gains thrown 20/60. This means if you use a ranged weapon then you can use all the same Dart Sharpshooter options for heavy ranged damaged (especially with Battlemaster Quick Toss) but with a larger damage die and returning weapon without having to owe an artificer a favour (you get around the non-magical part anyway with the infused changed and extra damage)
Yes, it would gain the d6 elemental damage and all the rest of the bonuses from the feature, but throwing a heavy crossbow would still be using it as an improvised weapon (as opposed to shooting it), so the damage die would drop from 1d10 down to 1d4, and you wouldn’t be able to add your PB to the attack roll unless you also had the tavern brawler feat too. So you can go ahead and believe anything you want, but that don’t make it true. Half of America believes the last presidential election was stolen and the other half don’t. One side still has to be wrong, regardless of their beliefs. This is much the same thing.
Well that was surprisingly passive aggressive, but I’ll bite, does this mean with your ruling that any weapon infused with the elemental damage would also be 1d4 +1d6 damage?
As throwing a weapon is an improvised attack, apparently, even if it gains the thrown property from a more specific subclass rule?
just let them throw their crossbow for "full" damage if that's so important to them. or anyway, 'ask your dm.'
new question: is a thrown crossbow still in sufficient shape to qualify as a (non improvised) weapon for the second throw? nothing about this feature suggests magic making the thing more sturdy.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
Hehehe, good point - it would probably need to be reinforced in some way (perhaps magically) to stand up to that treatment for very long!
But my point is that the subclass as it seems to be worded still does appear to allow for this quirky new ranged weapon that would benefit from Sharpshooter and grant some new build opportunities. Heck, with Crossbow Expert you could still get the free bonus action attack if you used a Hand Crossbow instead.
If adding the thrown property to a melee weapon makes it no longer an improvised ranged attack - then the same appears to follow for a ranged attack (which if in the theatre of the mind that appears wonky, bear in mind that I wouldn’t want a larger than life Warhammer or a Crossbow thrown at me by a 12ft tall behemoth) 🤣
honestly, i don't think rules as intended meant for someone to toss a longbow for more damage than a hand axe. i don't think it really follows like logic. but I'd rule-of-cool it for a player once.
if devs really meant you to be tossing random things that didn't start off as melee weapons then they would have named shields right away, obviously.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
No, because it is a melee weapon that has gained the thrown property from a specific subclass rule. But if you use a crossbow as a melee weapon it is an improvised weapon, so even if you give it the thrown property it is still a thrown improvised weapon. Hitting someone with a crossbow is not the same as shooting someone with a crossbow, and throwing a crossbow is closer to hitting someone with it than shooting them with it. Ipso facto….
Ahh, I understand your confusion, see the rule refers to ‘a weapon’, not ‘a melee weapon’ as you appear to be reading it. Otherwise you would be right, simply as it appears to be published you could add this 1d6 to a bow you shoot people with, but as it also gains the thrown property this has inspired me to theory craft some more unusual options.
Perhaps this misreading is because MOST thrown weapons are melee weapons as well, but then I would point you towards the trusty Dart which can benefit from Sharpshooter, which also leads to some fun builds post Tasha’s
Oh I well understand this it is funny, but you are a barbarian afterall. Tossing random things though would require the Tavern Brawler feat as said above though… but after that you easily make a Captain America build if you so wanted :-)
I am not ”confused,” I did not “misread” a Goddamned thing, and I am well aware of the dart’s existence (and the net’s too), thank you very much. Your condescension is noted, but not appreciated. If you want to treat throwing a crossbow at someone as if it’s the same as shooting them with it then have at it, but that’s not possibly RAI, nor is it RAW in my interpretation. It would be the same as hitting someone with it which would qualify as an improvised weapon RAW, only thrown instead. But if you wanna go all Chester Cheetah on it, be my guest, I don’t have to play at your table, and you sure as hell wouldn’t get away with that malarkey at mine.
Okay, sorry I did not mean to offend. I just wanted to explore some fun new options but this conversation isn’t going anywhere and has become quite uncivil, which is sad really. I’ll ask a mod to close the thread
topic adjacent, i wonder where the devs came up with the pick-an-element boomerang combination. throwing more stuff? cool. primal damage? okay. but someone looked at giants and thought "light-up yo-yo!" ...and now i wonder just how quirky this book i preordered is going to be. there's a whole thread about the UA not paying off in interesting changes but this silly thing slips through?
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!