Im calculating 6d8 out flame thrower which can hit 3 targets. But whatever... It seems people calculate here using magic items as if we were in 3e while +3 weapons are legendary and even at level 20 there is next to no chance of you having that.
Go on then... Think what you want... Im through trying to teach people about 5e concept which are easy to grasp. Things like magic weapons shouldnt be counted because they are not part of the class. Same with feats which everyone can have. But apparently people dont grasp those and only understand dps because all that matters to them is to kill kill kill !
But yeah... 2 turrets at 20 plus flame throwers can hit up to 3 targets. Thats pretty much 6d8. May be wishful thinking but i preffer to giver higher to make sure. Even at 4d8. Thats as good as cantrips still and you are still keeping your actions contrary to cantrips which you lose. Thats still better then cantrips.
I take your point on +3 weapons I should probably not include them, I do because each class scales differently off them and the AOE calculation is a good point I could have acounted for but I don’t feel like doing the calculations again without the +3s as my below point wouldn’t change.
But I am a little annoyed that you keepignoring my main point about the MAs as set up time crippling Damage, and just focus on what I never disagree with.
Artificer has a lot of versitility in and out of combat, it is a cool class but Artillerist has horrible in combat mechanics meaning it will keep players either: Begging DMs to let them drop Turret on a free round just before combat, Having VeryVery shit first rounds or just never using the turret. (I would rule in social situations that dropping the turret is an act of aggression identical to Hexing someone)
(I enjoy theorising the best DPRs with each class just for fun for example a Hexblade Eldritch Knight can do 100+ DPR on a target once per short rest using only Hex as a resource)
Arcane Armament - an Artillerist cannot use their cantrip wand as part of this feature, unless I’m mistaken.
Seems like that could be a fun thing to do, wandslinger style. Crossbow in one hand, wand in the other. Maybe a direction to look in for a third subclass?
I rebuilt my Artificer too as Artillerist. He is mostly the same as when I played the 2017 version. A Warforged Artificer who was a disabled soldier from an Ancient Civilisation who uses to be a ranger. (His intro was basically Bastion from Overwatch)
His turret is in fact shaped as a sabertooth cat (holdover from previous version) And most of the Replicated Magic Items are actually features of his body, including his rifle like gun arm, although you can disarm him by taking his tinker tools as that activates his gun arm and anything else that could be taken away.
And he looks basically like HK-47 from KOTOR, called Mk-Lo7, with a robotic stutter on everything except calling humans Meatbags. Although gets better when he remembers his true name and feels closer to past self.
I like the Alchemist but the Artillerist I find very lacking. The turret is very under powered when compared to the Alchemical Homunculus. The turret would be fine in low level encounters but would be practically useless against anything mid to high level. The magic wand abilities seems lacking as well only doing slightly better than basic cantrips. Id like to see this class reworked a little bit to make the turret more powerful as the player levels up or use higher level spell slot to summon the turret.
Can’t use it. It won’t show up! I have everything except Homebrew on, and it won’t let me use Artificer. Then cut it on, and it wouldn’t let me use it. Am I doing something wrong?
Havent seen if anyone talked about this yet. but under alchemical mastery it says you can add your int modifier, to healing and damage spells. But what about spells that already get that modifier. is it just meaning you get your spellcasting mod twice then?
I feel like the turret needs to level up damage like cantrips, adding another die per level or improving the die to a d8, then d10 etc. Or perhaps more uses without using spell slots
i think it should only level with spell slot used since it is a bonus action and or add spell casting modifier to the damage.
i see a lot of people compare it to spiritual weapon which deals 1d8+casting mod and levels +1d8 every 2 spell slots.
the average damage of a d8 is 4.5 so 5. and starting with a spell mod of 4 or 5 is not hard as a spellcaster in most cases. with a 4th level slot a spiritual weapon starts to reliably outdps a turret.
i think it should only level with spell slot used since it is a bonus action and or add spell casting modifier to the damage.
i see a lot of people compare it to spiritual weapon which deals 1d8+casting mod and levels +1d8 every 2 spell slots.
the average damage of a d8 is 4.5 so 5. and starting with a spell mod of 4 or 5 is not hard as a spellcaster in most cases. with a 4th level slot a spiritual weapon starts to reliably outdps a turret.
I am not a huge fan of spending the few higher level spell slots on turret but could live with it. I think the fact we can have 2 out past level 14 is already pretty balancing. The only issue is it takes MA to cast where Spiritual Weapon only takes BA to cast.
So our recommended feedback is to let turret be same phrasing as Spiritual weapon for the Casting time. Bonus action and when created you can make an attack as part of the cast.
I could see the following wording added to the bottom of each turret:
Flamethrower Turret At Higher Levels: If you used a spell slot of 2nd level or higher to summon the turret, the damage increases by 1d8 for each slot level above 1st.
Force Ballista Turret At Higher Levels: If you used a spell slot of 2nd level or higher to summon the turret, the damage increases by 1d8 and the target is pushed back an additional 5 feet for each slot level above 1st.
Defender Turret At Higher Levels: If you used a spell slot of 2nd level or higher to summon the turret, the amount of temporary hit points gained increases by 1d8 for each slot level above 1st.
I swear sometimes you crunch loving guys just abandon all forms of explanation for formula calculation and just prefer throwing out numbers without any explanation as to what those numbers mean. It is quite annoying at times.
As for the discussion about turret damage, I thought I'd try and do the math myself on it.
Assuming: INT of 20 (so +5 bonus) Level 20 Can attack twice each turn, I'm thinking a wand doing firebolt. That's 4d10 at level 20 2 Turretts (Force Ballista, 2d8 each)
So on your turn: 2 fire bolt cantrips from the wand, that's 8d10, plus each turret doing 2d8 thats 4d8.
The average roll of a d10 is (1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+10 divided by 10 =) 5.5 (round down to 5). The average roll of a d8 is (same math) 4. So 5x8= 40, and 4x4= 16 for a total of 56 damage a turn if you're not using any spell slots. But you also add your INT to the damage rolls so that's another 10 damage (2 attacks times 5 int modifier) so 66 damage on a basic turn.
I have no idea how that compares to other classes, but it seems reasonable to me.
You can only use the wand to produce the effects of a cantrip once on your turn, Arcane Armaments doesn't work with Wand Prototype.
Additionally, it is no so much the damage you deal once ramped up (IE, you have already spent the two actions to summon the turrets), but the additional cost spent to set up the turrets. It would actually be better to calculate over 3 rounds and compare it to an Artificer that just spends 3 rounds casting fire bolt.
So the first two rounds will be spent summoning turrets and using the bonus action to attack with said turrets.
First Round: Summon Turret and deal 2d8 Force damage. That averages to 9 damage.
Second Round: Summon second turret and deal 4d8 Force damage. That averages to 18 damage this turn for a total of 27 damage over two rounds.
Third Round: Cast Firebolt (4d10+5) and deal 4d8 Force damage. That averages to 45 damage this turn for a total of 72 damage over three rounds.
If you just cast Firebolt 3 times from your prototype wand , ignoring the turret. That is 3*(4d10+5) or 12d10 + 15. That averages to a total of 81 damage over three rounds.
Now obviously beyond round 3 the turrets overtake 3 rounds of combat.
However most battles don't last beyond 3 rounds, 4 rounds at most, so it is actually hard pressed to spend the first 2 rounds summoning turrets. That is why most Artillerists will need to prepare ahead of time so that they aren't surprised and can have the turrets out before combat starts.
You can only use the wand to produce the effects of a cantrip once on your turn, Arcane Armaments doesn't work with Wand Prototype.
Ooh. I missed that. So it would be 46 damage a turn. That does seem less good. Is there any more damaging basic attack than firebolt cantrip at 4d10 that could be doubled with the Arcane Armaments? I'm not thinking of any.
46 still feels like decent damage to me, though I've never gotten higher than level 12 in a campaign before so I'm not sure what level 20 damage normally is for other classes.
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I take your point on +3 weapons I should probably not include them, I do because each class scales differently off them and the AOE calculation is a good point I could have acounted for but I don’t feel like doing the calculations again without the +3s as my below point wouldn’t change.
But I am a little annoyed that you keep ignoring my main point about the MAs as set up time crippling Damage, and just focus on what I never disagree with.
Artificer has a lot of versitility in and out of combat, it is a cool class but Artillerist has horrible in combat mechanics meaning it will keep players either: Begging DMs to let them drop Turret on a free round just before combat, Having VeryVery shit first rounds or just never using the turret. (I would rule in social situations that dropping the turret is an act of aggression identical to Hexing someone)
(I enjoy theorising the best DPRs with each class just for fun for example a Hexblade Eldritch Knight can do 100+ DPR on a target once per short rest using only Hex as a resource)
anyone know when we will be able to create subclasses for the artificer?
We will not be able to create homebrew subclasses for Artificer while it is in playtest. Check out Stormknight's post on this.
Arcane Armament - an Artillerist cannot use their cantrip wand as part of this feature, unless I’m mistaken.
Seems like that could be a fun thing to do, wandslinger style. Crossbow in one hand, wand in the other. Maybe a direction to look in for a third subclass?
https://www.dndbeyond.com/profile/Arutha/characters/9951328
I rebuilt my Artificer too as Artillerist. He is mostly the same as when I played the 2017 version. A Warforged Artificer who was a disabled soldier from an Ancient Civilisation who uses to be a ranger. (His intro was basically Bastion from Overwatch)
His turret is in fact shaped as a sabertooth cat (holdover from previous version) And most of the Replicated Magic Items are actually features of his body, including his rifle like gun arm, although you can disarm him by taking his tinker tools as that activates his gun arm and anything else that could be taken away.
And he looks basically like HK-47 from KOTOR, called Mk-Lo7, with a robotic stutter on everything except calling humans Meatbags. Although gets better when he remembers his true name and feels closer to past self.
I'll be playing an artificer in a different setting, Urban Arcana set in Boston. I'm looking forward to seeing how the class will function in a more modern setting. https://www.dndbeyond.com/profile/tmjr6/characters/8661269
I like the Alchemist but the Artillerist I find very lacking. The turret is very under powered when compared to the Alchemical Homunculus. The turret would be fine in low level encounters but would be practically useless against anything mid to high level. The magic wand abilities seems lacking as well only doing slightly better than basic cantrips. Id like to see this class reworked a little bit to make the turret more powerful as the player levels up or use higher level spell slot to summon the turret.
Can’t use it. It won’t show up! I have everything except Homebrew on, and it won’t let me use Artificer. Then cut it on, and it wouldn’t let me use it. Am I doing something wrong?
Extended Signature! Yay! https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/off-topic/adohands-kitchen/3153-extended-signature-thread?page=2#c21
Haven’t used this account in forever. Still a big fan of crawling claws.
Don't worry I can't access it either. Unless we are both doing something wrong.
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so the class that fixes stuff broke the site XD
Havent seen if anyone talked about this yet. but under alchemical mastery it says you can add your int modifier, to healing and damage spells. But what about spells that already get that modifier. is it just meaning you get your spellcasting mod twice then?
yes you add it a second time in those cases
I feel like the turret needs to level up damage like cantrips, adding another die per level or improving the die to a d8, then d10 etc. Or perhaps more uses without using spell slots
i think it should only level with spell slot used since it is a bonus action and or add spell casting modifier to the damage.
i see a lot of people compare it to spiritual weapon which deals 1d8+casting mod and levels +1d8 every 2 spell slots.
the average damage of a d8 is 4.5 so 5. and starting with a spell mod of 4 or 5 is not hard as a spellcaster in most cases. with a 4th level slot a spiritual weapon starts to reliably outdps a turret.
I am not a huge fan of spending the few higher level spell slots on turret but could live with it. I think the fact we can have 2 out past level 14 is already pretty balancing. The only issue is it takes MA to cast where Spiritual Weapon only takes BA to cast.
So our recommended feedback is to let turret be same phrasing as Spiritual weapon for the Casting time. Bonus action and when created you can make an attack as part of the cast.
I could see the following wording added to the bottom of each turret:
Flamethrower Turret
At Higher Levels: If you used a spell slot of 2nd level or higher to summon the turret, the damage increases by 1d8 for each slot level above 1st.
Force Ballista Turret
At Higher Levels: If you used a spell slot of 2nd level or higher to summon the turret, the damage increases by 1d8 and the target is pushed back an additional 5 feet for each slot level above 1st.
Defender Turret
At Higher Levels: If you used a spell slot of 2nd level or higher to summon the turret, the amount of temporary hit points gained increases by 1d8 for each slot level above 1st.
Love it! Here's Blue, Kobold Artificer :)
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As for the discussion about turret damage, I thought I'd try and do the math myself on it.
Assuming: INT of 20 (so +5 bonus)
Level 20
Can attack twice each turn, I'm thinking a wand doing firebolt. That's 4d10 at level 20
2 Turretts (Force Ballista, 2d8 each)
So on your turn:
2 fire bolt cantrips from the wand, that's 8d10, plus each turret doing 2d8 thats 4d8.
The average roll of a d10 is (1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+10 divided by 10 =) 5.5 (round down to 5). The average roll of a d8 is (same math) 4. So 5x8= 40, and 4x4= 16 for a total of 56 damage a turn if you're not using any spell slots. But you also add your INT to the damage rolls so that's another 10 damage (2 attacks times 5 int modifier) so 66 damage on a basic turn.
I have no idea how that compares to other classes, but it seems reasonable to me.
You can only use the wand to produce the effects of a cantrip once on your turn, Arcane Armaments doesn't work with Wand Prototype.
Additionally, it is no so much the damage you deal once ramped up (IE, you have already spent the two actions to summon the turrets), but the additional cost spent to set up the turrets. It would actually be better to calculate over 3 rounds and compare it to an Artificer that just spends 3 rounds casting fire bolt.
So the first two rounds will be spent summoning turrets and using the bonus action to attack with said turrets.
If you just cast Firebolt 3 times from your prototype wand , ignoring the turret. That is 3*(4d10+5) or 12d10 + 15. That averages to a total of 81 damage over three rounds.
Now obviously beyond round 3 the turrets overtake 3 rounds of combat.
However most battles don't last beyond 3 rounds, 4 rounds at most, so it is actually hard pressed to spend the first 2 rounds summoning turrets. That is why most Artillerists will need to prepare ahead of time so that they aren't surprised and can have the turrets out before combat starts.
Ooh. I missed that. So it would be 46 damage a turn. That does seem less good. Is there any more damaging basic attack than firebolt cantrip at 4d10 that could be doubled with the Arcane Armaments? I'm not thinking of any.
46 still feels like decent damage to me, though I've never gotten higher than level 12 in a campaign before so I'm not sure what level 20 damage normally is for other classes.