Honestly, this feels better in a lot of ways, but there are some key aspects that need re-examined, most or all of which have been pointed out already:
-Spell Storing needs to come much earlier, and I would really like to see the third-level spell access come back, though this would push the feature back in regards to the level the ability is acquired
- the subclasses are underwhelming and feel like they have some shoe-horned aspects. Alchemist has been rendered totally bland by its curtailing and focus on having a Homunculus over an actual ability that denotes player agency. The Artillerist's turret is kinda cool, but a definite step down from a Thunder Cannon in terms of cool factor, not to mention that two of its settings (Flamethrower and Defense) are really paltry, but I admittedly have personal issues with fire as a damage type and the way 5e leans so heavily on the mechanic of temporary HP.
- Cantrips are a must have inclusion, but the overall spell list feels a little anemic, especially for a prepared caster
My big gripes are really with the subclasses:
- The focus on wands for Artillerist feels like it should either be relegated to a core class ability, as wands are pretty staple universally used magic items, or they should replace it with something less parasitic (to borrow an MtG term) to the setting inspiring it. I'm not the kind of player who really digs into these classic throwback settings, and when you remove the Artificer from that context, the wand function feels awkward and forced to me.
- Instead of foisting a pet onto Alchemists, who IMO should be more oriented toward things involving CHEMISTRY, I'd rather see a Golemcrafter whose specific abilities focused entirely on a pet/small number of minions similar to a summoning spell. Instead, give me something conceptually similar to what you get in Pathfinder (yeah, I'm going there) and give me a mutagen or something that draws on other media like Jekyll and Hyde, that lets me temporarily assume physical prowess at the tradeoff of spellcasting ability or vice versa. LET ME USE CHEMICALS DANG IT. I don't mind the idea of pet-based classes for the sake of flavor, but they require WAY more help to feel as or more useful and efficient than just doing something with my character's own inherent abilities.
Also, just saying, there was a UA a few months back about a Wizard school that utilized arcanomechanical armor, and I HATED it, because that is 100% some artificer nonsense if I've ever seen it
So I have been lurking here for a while and just wanted to add my 2 cents.
I have been playing a Golemancer from Kibbles Artificer for a couple of moths and was super keen to see the new UA on artificers. For me there is lots to love and only a couple of little nitpicking things that i don't like.
The few things I would change is the Alchemist's Homunculi. When you get down to it, the benefits it gives could be serviced the same way by letting the Alchemist use his bonus action to create the effect. IE, use bonus action to do the acid attack, use a salve effect or even provide the help action. There just doesn't feel like a need to add a pet to this class.
Arcane Armanent feels like it should be in a subclass that likes to get up in the face of enemies. (like a warsmith or something similar)
Spell storing could come online earlier. Maybe get level 1 storing at level 5, level 2 storing at 10 and add level 3 at 15. Happy to even restrict the number of spells stored/uses availible and have them scale up.
The artillerist feels like it needs to decide between being a wandslinger or a fortifications expert. Maybe split this class into two (Wandslinger focusing on using and making wands and artillerist doing more with their turrets. Maybe even being able to modify them a bit (make them smaller or mountable maybe?))
Really hope a proper Golemancer sub class is released. Love using my current Golem but really want to change to the UA artificer.
These are just my thoughts. On the whole i really really like this class and just feel only a couple of little changes will make a huge improvement.
So I have been lurking here for a while and just wanted to add my 2 cents.
I have been playing a Golemancer from Kibbles Artificer for a couple of moths and was super keen to see the new UA on artificers. For me there is lots to love and only a couple of little nitpicking things that i don't like.
The few things I would change is the Alchemist's Homunculi. When you get down to it, the benefits it gives could be serviced the same way by letting the Alchemist use his bonus action to create the effect. IE, use bonus action to do the acid attack, use a salve effect or even provide the help action. There just doesn't feel like a need to add a pet to this class.
Arcane Armanent feels like it should be in a subclass that likes to get up in the face of enemies. (like a warsmith or something similar)
Spell storing could come online earlier. Maybe get level 1 storing at level 5, level 2 storing at 10 and add level 3 at 15. Happy to even restrict the number of spells stored/uses availible and have them scale up.
The artillerist feels like it needs to decide between being a wandslinger or a fortifications expert. Maybe split this class into two (Wandslinger focusing on using and making wands and artillerist doing more with their turrets. Maybe even being able to modify them a bit (make them smaller or mountable maybe?))
Really hope a proper Golemancer sub class is released. Love using my current Golem but really want to change to the UA artifice
It has 6 new archetypes including a Golemancer and, the one that caught my attention, the Ironclad. The price was reasonable, $4.63 CAN, so I picked it up.
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Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
Ready when its ready is the time they give and i agree to that. Wanting a time only set you up for disappointment.
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DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
So after lurking this thread and others on Reddit and other sites, I’m compiling a list of my favourite suggestions for the survey.
One of them is bringing back the Alchemists Satchel from UA:A17 as a fourth Alchemist subclass feature. Only being able to select 2 of the options total from the original selection and being able to swap one out every level or something.
But then, I was thinking instead of that, I’d love to see an on field decoction type ability to really flesh out the RP of an on-the-fly Artificer. The same way that Geralt of Rivia makes a decoction for various purposes once he slays a creatures for the first time and gets an extract of their genes. Like if I’m in a campaign that’s very goblin heavy, for example, I could loot the body for its blood or marrow or something. Then I can make a serum that does X, whether it be gain knowledge of an ability score of that race, or gain advantages on attacks on that race once per battle, or have a pre generated table that you roll for an effect for against or to do with that race. You can only have one decoction brewed/prepared at a time and two at later levels. A lot of it is RP fluff of course, but mechanically its just ‘once you kill a creature, you gain X against that named species (goblin, not goblinoid or humanoid). You can only have this benefit against one named creature type at a time.’
... am I getting too fantastical in my love of RP, my love of my Alchemist and my love of The Witcher series? Is there something there or am I missing the plausible/balanced mark?
Hjalmar Gunderson, Vuman Alchemist Plague Doctor in a HB Campaign, Post Netherese Invasion Cormyr (lvl20 retired) Godfrey, Autognome Butler in Ghosts of Saltmarsh into Spelljammer Grímr Skeggisson, Goliath Rune Knight in Rime of the Frostmaiden DM of two HB campaigns set in the same world.
I think that could be fun, a little bit difficult to balance if you’d want different bonuses for the type of creature you slay but I could see it being tied into the Arcane weapon spell?
You spend 1 minute working with a corpse of a slain creature, for the next 8 hours Arcane Weapon deals d10 damage to that creature type. (Effectively +2 Damage per attack to that creature type)
Although I think it fits better in a separate subclass even more focused on Witcher or Enchanting. I think the Alchemist solution is a larger combat potion list that you could throw to recreate the 2017 effect (and so could any one just Alchemist better. I think that is an obvious topic they should be working on for the release book containing Artificer)
Here is another topic to discuss, most of the time I hear balance concerns if a class has Too much offered for a 2-3 or 5 level multiclass, but looking over Artificer I am afraid there might be too little?
Paladin has Martial weapons, Medium Armor, Lay on Hands, Divine Sense, Smites. Ranger has Martial weapons, Medium Armor, Exploration, Fighting style, and Hunters mark.
While Artificer has ? Difficulty multiclassing as is Int, Medium Armor, Tool Expertise, Arcane Weapon, Changable Cantrips, Magic Items, Subclass pets, Arcane Armament.
Tool Expertise, more of a ribbon not a huge draw.
On level Changable Cantrips, interesting but multiclassing spellcasters usually already have a lot.
Free magic items, only super applicable in low magic settings, you’ll only really have 2 items, limited to +1s and small wonderous items.
Subclass pets, the only reason I could see to take this class, if your primary class is Abismal at getting something to do with Bonus Action.
Arcane Armament, Extra Attack usually only important if already invested in something else low level.
ProposedSolutions: Do you think the below is too much, too many classes would be interested in multiclassing?
1. If my proposed change to bring Right Cantrip for the job to level 1 would go through classes could take 1 level dip for effectively an improved version of magic initiate.
2. Maybe Make some Infusions scale on total level rather than class level? It feels like any class take takes a 2 level dip around level 12 would not actually look to use the Infusions.
3. As others have suggested Arcane Armament related to Cantrips rather than Extra Attack, but then maybe it would be nerfed to level 6/7 similar to bladesinger or Eldritch Knight.
I think that could be fun, a little bit difficult to balance if you’d want different bonuses for the type of creature you slay but I could see it being tied into the Arcane weapon spell?
You spend 1 minute working with a corpse of a slain creature, for the next 8 hours Arcane Weapon deals d10 damage to that creature type. (Effectively +2 Damage per attack to that creature type)
Although I think it fits better in a separate subclass even more focused on Witcher or Enchanting. I think the Alchemist solution is a larger combat potion list that you could throw to recreate the 2017 effect (and so could any one just Alchemist better. I think that is an obvious topic they should be working on for the release book containing Artificer)
Yes yes, that fits much better. I knew what I want it to look like but didn’t know how to get there. I was definitely going for a tinkering on the fly with genetics sorta deal and this idea fits that even better than mine. Like making an antidote for a monster. Haha
A different subclass for it could be cool too, and I thought of that too, but this class is already tied to the Alchemists Supplies tool and thought they’d maybe spread all the subclasses around to all the supplies/tools. I’m all up for different themed subclasses!
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Hjalmar Gunderson, Vuman Alchemist Plague Doctor in a HB Campaign, Post Netherese Invasion Cormyr (lvl20 retired) Godfrey, Autognome Butler in Ghosts of Saltmarsh into Spelljammer Grímr Skeggisson, Goliath Rune Knight in Rime of the Frostmaiden DM of two HB campaigns set in the same world.
I know it is not the same theming that you are looking for but it could be connected to Leatherworking for a Ranger type, Jewelcrafting for a Skyrim soulstone type, or some type of Enchanting tools which would be new.
Think the Alchemist theme is just too broad but we don't want to give them all the toys, would get too complex. I see a mandate to keep Artificer at about the same complexity as core classes, which the previous 2017 edition failed at. I look forward to their attempts at Mystic revamp (maybe paladin like level 20 subclass features and Invocation like Disciplines but can scaling and using psi points)
PS. I got a homebrew for a Summoner as 15th class to be added to 5e based on Wisdom Warlock.
On the topic of Jeweler's Tools, what subclass and flavour would fit the current artificer with Jeweler's Tools? I'm just imagining "I AM A MAGIC JEWELER"
"I MAKE BRACELET WANDS AND SPARKLY TURRETS/ JEWELED HOMUNCULI AND NECKLACE POTIONS"
"I CAST CURE WOUNDS BY MAKING A MAGIC GLOWY RING"
"I CAST GLYPH OF WARDING BY EMBEDDING GEMS IN THE FLOOR"
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i like linguistics and, well, d&d, obviously. this bio hadn't been updated for 3 years so i figured i'd do that.
On the topic of Jeweler's Tools, what subclass and flavour would fit the current artificer with Jeweler's Tools? I'm just imagining "I AM A MAGIC JEWELER"
"I MAKE BRACELET WANDS AND SPARKLY TURRETS/ JEWELED HOMUNCULI AND NECKLACE POTIONS"
"I CAST CURE WOUNDS BY MAKING A MAGIC GLOWY RING"
"I CAST GLYPH OF WARDING BY EMBEDDING GEMS IN THE FLOOR"
I would go with half Morrowind/Skyrim Style Enchanter where I catch souls of monsters in Gems, and half Magic item user ie the Rings and Necklaces I own have spells stored and I use my tinker tools to refresh them on long rest.
i know it is not strict “the magic emanates from the tool” but I think it would be fine by theming.
On the topic of Jeweler's Tools, what subclass and flavour would fit the current artificer with Jeweler's Tools? I'm just imagining "I AM A MAGIC JEWELER"
"I MAKE BRACELET WANDS AND SPARKLY TURRETS/ JEWELED HOMUNCULI AND NECKLACE POTIONS"
"I CAST CURE WOUNDS BY MAKING A MAGIC GLOWY RING"
"I CAST GLYPH OF WARDING BY EMBEDDING GEMS IN THE FLOOR"
If you are looking for inspiration, start by looking into jeweler’s techniques on YouTube. It’s a robust craft and while you would be a jeweler I’d suggest to finding one aesthetic and rolling with it. That said:
”Hands adorned with rings and a string of earrings around her left lobe, some might mistake her for a hawker of jewelry, however there is more to this story. A trained wizard might glimpse the arrangement of arcane symbols expertly woven amidst her many earrings, or the feel the wax and wane of many magics as they hold her gemmed fingers.”
”As her companion calls for aid she raises a file, filled with ornate gold filigree. The jade dragon wrapped around her finger seems to come to life as it’s eyes open and glow red. A small mote of vibrant green energy is released from her ring and quickly travels along the filigree of her file, finally releasing as it’s power is unleashed onto her ailing compatriot. His wounds stitch together in an instant and he is replenished for battle!”
”Noticing the threat, her seemingly mundane hummingbird brooch jumps from its resting place and takes to the air, instantly becoming a battle companion against the encroaching enemies.”
What is an Artificer? An internet search via Google or Bing, defines an Artificer as “a skilled craftsman or inventor”. Unfortunately, after over a month of thoroughly reviewing the revised Artificer, it is severally lacking in the definition of an Artificer.
I personally think the rebuild of the Artificer is garbage. While there are a few aspects of the revised Artificer that I like, the rest in my opinion makes it overpowered and just plain sloppy. It's like they tried to make the Artificer into another spellcaster with some aspect that deal with magical items.
1. The "Magical Tinkering" feature makes me think of a merchant having static displays to attract customers.
An object that sheds bright light in a 5-foot radius and dim light for an additional 5 feet. A candle that never goes out.
Whenever tapped by a creature, the object emits a recorded message that can be heard up to 10 feet away. Message can be no more than 6 seconds long. A brief explanation of a product, or a greeting for potential customers that visits the shop.
An object that continuously emits an odor or nonverbal sound of your choice, up to teen feet away. Something that masks the scent of an outhouse, or a sound that helps with meditation.
A static visual effect that appears on one of the object’s surface. The effect can be a picture, up to 25 words or text, lines and shapes, or a mixture of these elements. A billboard on the side of the road advertising the shop, or a sign above the shop.
I am having some difficulty imagining how the "Magical Tinkering" items will be useful to the Artificer (I guess I lack an imagination). I would rather have the “Magic Item Analysis” feature from the first Artificer build than Magical Tinkering. As the Magic Item Analysis is actually useful.
2. Requiring tools to be spellcasting focuses I just can't see it (even after the explanation). I mean, the class gets Thieves' Tools!!! I can see maybe using them to cast Arcane Lock, Knock (a spell the Artificer doesn’t even get) or even Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum, but the way it is explain you will need proficiency with multiple tools or an infused item in order to cast the different spells the Artificer has access too.
3. Infuse Item feature create magical items that are purely prototypes, so if the character dies the items become useless. And, you can infuse a new item at the end of a long rest. How is this not overpowered or broken?
Just like Wonderous Invention from the previous Artificer build, the Infuse Item feature limits what the player can create. I am not saying a player should be able to build what they want, but the DM should have a say in what they can and can’t build. I mean an Artificer is skilled craftsman or inventor!!! There should be a way for the Artificer class to have an advantage at building permanent magical items and not just infusing magic into items to make temporary magical items.
The “Replicate Magic Item” Infuse Item feature gives the players 49 different items they can temporarily make. Little over 75% of those magic items are uncommon magical items (items you can create at 2 and 12 levels). You don’t get access to rare magical items until 16 level. At least the Wonderous Invention feature of the first build gave you access to rare magical items at 10 level.
Let’s not forget that with this feature, the Artificer has access to a +1 “Returning Weapon” and +1 armor or shield at 2 level. SECOND LEVEL!!!!
4. Arcane Armament limits how you can attack. You must use a magic weapon as one of the two attacks. What if you don't have a magical weapon?
5. I can understand that an Artificer needs to be flexible, but the ability to change cantrips after a short or long rest, in my opinion is just overpowered. A character that is supposed to design and build magical items who has the ability to change out a Cantrip and a Wizard who spends years studying the Arcane Arts can’t, just makes this feature broken.
6. The Spell-Storing feature in the rebuild went the wrong way. The version in the previous build was good but it needed to be tweaked in a way that made it useful. Storing a spell in an item that only lasts for an hour isn't useful.
7. I like Soul of the Artificer; this feature has not changed since the previous build.
8. THEY BROKE THE ALCHEMIST!!!! The main subclass that I enjoyed the most from the previous version has nothing to do with Alchemy in the rebuild.
The Tools of the Trade feature is the only real positive aspect for the entire subclass. Proficiency with the Alchemist’s Supplies and the Herbalism Kit and reduction is crafting time and costs of potions are the only thing out of the Alchemist rebuild that has anything to do with the foundation of the subclass.
An Alchemist should not have expanded spells. They deal with potions and alchemical formulas. The expanded spell list makes it look like you are trying to make this subclass nothing but a spellcaster subclass. You just need to describe how you are casting a spell without saying you are casting a spell, but yet at the same time you are casting a spell. What does this have to do with Alchemy?
You would think that they learned from their Mechanical Servant mistake in the previous version, with the introduction of the Alchemical Homunculus. That thing is as useful as rubber toilet paper.
Alchemical Mastery has no redeeming qualities. It gives the player bonuses whenever they cast spells using Alchemist Supplies (I pull the stopper out of my glass beaker and cast Stinking Cloud) and the ability to cast lesser restoration without expending a spell slot. You can do this a number of times equal to your Intelligence modifier. What does these things have to do with alchemy? THIS IS SPELLCASTING!!!!!
Chemical Savant’s only saving grace is that you get resistance to acid and poison damage and immunity to the poison condition (this feature would be better placed with the Rogue). Also, why would an Alchemist need resistance to poison damage and immunity to the poison condition? But similar to Alchemical Mastery, Chemical Savant give the players the ability to cast Greater Restoration without expending a spell slot per long rest. MORE SPELLCASTING!!!!!
The Alchemist isn't about spells!!!! They are about creating alchemical formulas that aid them and others!!! The Alchemist in the rebuild is introduced in the following way...
"An Alchemist is an expert at combining exotic reagents to produce mystical effects. Among artificers, members of this subclass are the greatest healers, as well as the ones most adept at wielding dangerous chemicals."
But yet, when you read the description of the Alchemical Mastery it states....
"At 6th level, your command of magical chemicals has become masterful, enhancing the healing and damage you create through them. When you “cast a spell” using your alchemist’s supplies as the spellcasting focus, you gain a bonus to one roll of the spell."
Essentially, the Alchemist in this rebuild is just reskins a of caster that has the player using Alchemist’s Supplies they are proficient with to cast spells.
9. I think the Artillerist subclass is a halfway decent subclass. The Crafting portion of the Tools of the Trade is pointless. The description of the Artillerist states...
"An Artillerist specializes in using magic to create explosions and defensive positions, as well as magic-infused sidearms—especially wands— that can be used on the battlefield. Artillerists were valued by all the armies of the Last War."
This is saying (in my opinion) an Artillerist is a heavy hitter, they provide firepower on a level similar to a Wizard. However, 2/3 of the wands available in the DMG are rare or very rare and as per the DMG the player needs to be at least 6 level to craft a rare item. And, the player needs to know the spell to be able to craft the specific wand (the Artillerist doesn’t even gain the Fireball spell until 9 level). Now these things are just guidelines for the DM as they can have their own rules. But still, crafting powerful wands at low a level isn't feasible.
Because of their nature, I do not mind the expanded spell list that they have, the Artillerist is supposed to be a strong offensive and defensive character, the expanded spell list does just that.
Out of the 2 subclasses provided, the Arcane Turrets feature actually makes sense, but they are limited. I think the number of turrets available should be increased and the player can choose plans for which ones they want to build. To balance having additional turrets, a cost can be associated with building them. Also, having the ability to use a spell slot to increase the damage of the turrets for a single round, or the amount of temporary hit points isn’t a bad idea.
Wand prototype is an example of a useless subclass feature. Only the Artificer can use the wands in this feature and you can use Cantrips that the Artificer doesn't know. How is this not overpowered? "The Right Cantrip for the Job" is a 10th level feature that allows the character to change Cantrips after a short or long rest. Jeremy Crawford in his interview with Todd Kenreck about the new Artificer, states that the Artificer may take apart the item they use to cast a specific Cantrip and reassemble it in a different way to cast a different Cantrip. While this is purely storytelling, it does explain how changing a Cantrip is feasible. But, how can a 6th level Artillerist invest a Cantrip that isn’t even an Artificer Cantrip into a wand?
The Fortified Position of the subclass I like. This feature actually has something to do with the subclass.
10. Finally, we come to the new spell “Arcane Weapon”. I actually like this spell and I think it would be useful to other spellcasters and not just the Artificer.
Overall, the Artificer rebuild/revisit completely guts the foundation of what an Artificer is; someone who is a craftsman, an inventor. The only thing in the entire Artificer class that has to do with building permanent magic items, is in the Artillerist subclass. The "Crafting" portion of the "Tools of the Trade" feature allows the Artillerist to craft wands at a quarter of the normal time and at half the cost. Beyond that, there is nothing about crafting permanent magical items.
Please understand that the above information is just my opinion. The original Artificer build that was provided in 2017 wasn’t perfect (no class or subclass is), but this rebuild/revisited took the Artificer in the wrong direction (my opinion), made it overpowered (my opinion) and just plain sloppy (my opinion).
To top things off, it has been over 30 days and a survey to offer feedback still has yet to be posted to the D&D website.
”A belt and bandolier of locks are strewn about the traveler’s body. Various devices to keep contained the power of the raw magical powers behind them.”
”As the beast approaches the traveler deftly plays with a #4 trigger-pick twirling it betwixt his fingers. Finally, the foe is within range and the playful flicking of the pick stops as it plunged into a cast iron lock on his chest. The latch unclicks and a ray of nauseating sickness erupts from what lies behind the lock, striking the beast, and sending it into fits of retching.”
”His friend recently slain lay before him, the battle ceased. He places a fine lock of silver and gold upon his chest and begins to open it. As the final tumbler is moved into place a wave of energy springs forth and enters the chest of his fallen comrade, Torval. With a lurch his back arches and a shuddering breath enters his body. His friend revived, the traveler places his tools back in their places along his belt.”
———
No matter the tool kit, it is only a gap in imagination that will ever stop you from being able to play this class.
EDIT: The Artificer, definitions be damned, is not *just* a craftsman and inventor. They are a magical-craftsman and magical-inventor in D&D. The magical aspect being pretty damn important. No, we didn’t get an entire list of new spells, thus unlocking a balance change across all previous classes... we got one new spell and the ability to flavor our actions in thousands of different ways. We all know the three facets to D&D: exploration, role play, and combat. Some classes are geared more to one than any other. Artificers are a ‘role play’ wheelhouse.
"Overall, the Artificer rebuild/revisit completely guts the foundation of what an Artificer is; someone who is a craftsman, an inventor."
The magic of artifice sidebar explains that your spellcasting is done via invention, which is why you need tools to cast spells. In this way, your somatic and material components are geared more toward using an item you created during spell preparation to create the spell effect. This is also why artificers can change their cantrips on a long rest and later a short rest. This method of spellcasting can be however you imagine the effect being created from an item.
This also goes toward your comment of "The Alchemist isn't about spells!!!! They are about creating alchemical formulas that aid them and others!!!"
Correct! And if you cast your spells with alchemist supplies as the focus, you can flavor your spells as an effect that is produced from a concoction you have made and takes on a certain effect when the right verbal components are used. In this way, you can still play the alchemist the way the old one was built, but you have to use your imagination.
"The only thing in the entire Artificer class that has to do with building permanent magic items, is in the Artillerist subclass."
The creation of permanent magic items already exists within the rules in Xanathar's Guide to Everything. Each of the subclasses makes you better at crafting a particular type of magic item than non Artificers.
"To top things off, it has been over 30 days and a survey to offer feedback still has yet to be posted to the D&D website."
I'll be honest, the ability to flavor your spells isn't worth anything to me as a class feature because as far as I'm concerned that's something that could be done with just about any casting class anyway; I saw a cleric being played as casting their spells through a holy symbol redesigned as a divinely infused mechanical contraption, there was a warlock who flavored their spells as coming from a mechanical gauntlet given to them by their patron, a guy played his Ranger spells as either coming from his own wilderness training or from special cartidges/ammunition for his crossbow rather than than having anything to do with nature magic, and I can very easily see a wizard flavoring their wand as being a device similar to a Sonic Screwdriver which they use to cast their spells. Making that a class feature just doesn't bring anything new to the table so far as I can see.
I'll be honest, the ability to flavor your spells isn't worth anything to me as a class feature because as far as I'm concerned that's something that could be done with just about any casting class anyway; I saw a cleric being played as casting their spells through a holy symbol redesigned as a divinely infused mechanical contraption, there was a warlock who flavored their spells as coming from a mechanical gauntlet given to them by their patron, a guy played his Ranger spells as either coming from his own wilderness training or from special cartidges/ammunition for his crossbow rather than than having anything to do with nature magic, and I can very easily see a wizard flavoring their wand as being a device similar to a Sonic Screwdriver which they use to cast their spells. Making that a class feature just doesn't bring anything new to the table so far as I can see.
Yes, this is kind of the reason behind my decoction idea a few comments up in this thread. I wanted a class feature that does some actual alchemy, some actual artificery as a class ability.
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Hjalmar Gunderson, Vuman Alchemist Plague Doctor in a HB Campaign, Post Netherese Invasion Cormyr (lvl20 retired) Godfrey, Autognome Butler in Ghosts of Saltmarsh into Spelljammer Grímr Skeggisson, Goliath Rune Knight in Rime of the Frostmaiden DM of two HB campaigns set in the same world.
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Honestly, this feels better in a lot of ways, but there are some key aspects that need re-examined, most or all of which have been pointed out already:
-Spell Storing needs to come much earlier, and I would really like to see the third-level spell access come back, though this would push the feature back in regards to the level the ability is acquired
- the subclasses are underwhelming and feel like they have some shoe-horned aspects. Alchemist has been rendered totally bland by its curtailing and focus on having a Homunculus over an actual ability that denotes player agency. The Artillerist's turret is kinda cool, but a definite step down from a Thunder Cannon in terms of cool factor, not to mention that two of its settings (Flamethrower and Defense) are really paltry, but I admittedly have personal issues with fire as a damage type and the way 5e leans so heavily on the mechanic of temporary HP.
- Cantrips are a must have inclusion, but the overall spell list feels a little anemic, especially for a prepared caster
My big gripes are really with the subclasses:
- The focus on wands for Artillerist feels like it should either be relegated to a core class ability, as wands are pretty staple universally used magic items, or they should replace it with something less parasitic (to borrow an MtG term) to the setting inspiring it. I'm not the kind of player who really digs into these classic throwback settings, and when you remove the Artificer from that context, the wand function feels awkward and forced to me.
- Instead of foisting a pet onto Alchemists, who IMO should be more oriented toward things involving CHEMISTRY, I'd rather see a Golemcrafter whose specific abilities focused entirely on a pet/small number of minions similar to a summoning spell. Instead, give me something conceptually similar to what you get in Pathfinder (yeah, I'm going there) and give me a mutagen or something that draws on other media like Jekyll and Hyde, that lets me temporarily assume physical prowess at the tradeoff of spellcasting ability or vice versa. LET ME USE CHEMICALS DANG IT. I don't mind the idea of pet-based classes for the sake of flavor, but they require WAY more help to feel as or more useful and efficient than just doing something with my character's own inherent abilities.
Also, just saying, there was a UA a few months back about a Wizard school that utilized arcanomechanical armor, and I HATED it, because that is 100% some artificer nonsense if I've ever seen it
Oh also I like the Artillerist as we now have a somewhat more diverse tinkerer than the Gunsmith, who was just focused on one thing.
i like linguistics and, well, d&d, obviously. this bio hadn't been updated for 3 years so i figured i'd do that.
So I have been lurking here for a while and just wanted to add my 2 cents.
I have been playing a Golemancer from Kibbles Artificer for a couple of moths and was super keen to see the new UA on artificers. For me there is lots to love and only a couple of little nitpicking things that i don't like.
The few things I would change is the Alchemist's Homunculi. When you get down to it, the benefits it gives could be serviced the same way by letting the Alchemist use his bonus action to create the effect. IE, use bonus action to do the acid attack, use a salve effect or even provide the help action. There just doesn't feel like a need to add a pet to this class.
Arcane Armanent feels like it should be in a subclass that likes to get up in the face of enemies. (like a warsmith or something similar)
Spell storing could come online earlier. Maybe get level 1 storing at level 5, level 2 storing at 10 and add level 3 at 15. Happy to even restrict the number of spells stored/uses availible and have them scale up.
The artillerist feels like it needs to decide between being a wandslinger or a fortifications expert. Maybe split this class into two (Wandslinger focusing on using and making wands and artillerist doing more with their turrets. Maybe even being able to modify them a bit (make them smaller or mountable maybe?))
Really hope a proper Golemancer sub class is released. Love using my current Golem but really want to change to the UA artificer.
These are just my thoughts. On the whole i really really like this class and just feel only a couple of little changes will make a huge improvement.
Christopher Walz, Alex Clippinger, Christian Eichhorn over on DM's Guild have already put out an addon for the newest UA: Artificer called: Tools of the Trade: Artificer Options.
These are just my thoughts. On the whole i really really like this class and just feel only a couple of little changes will make a huge improvement.
https://www.dmsguild.com/product/268410/Tools-of-the-Trade-Artificer-Options
It has 6 new archetypes including a Golemancer and, the one that caught my attention, the Ironclad. The price was reasonable, $4.63 CAN, so I picked it up.
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
Well when do you guys think the 2nd part of the Artificer will come out, with it being monday April 1st I am worried they will fool us lol.
Ready when its ready is the time they give and i agree to that. Wanting a time only set you up for disappointment.
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
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So after lurking this thread and others on Reddit and other sites, I’m compiling a list of my favourite suggestions for the survey.
One of them is bringing back the Alchemists Satchel from UA:A17 as a fourth Alchemist subclass feature. Only being able to select 2 of the options total from the original selection and being able to swap one out every level or something.
But then, I was thinking instead of that, I’d love to see an on field decoction type ability to really flesh out the RP of an on-the-fly Artificer. The same way that Geralt of Rivia makes a decoction for various purposes once he slays a creatures for the first time and gets an extract of their genes. Like if I’m in a campaign that’s very goblin heavy, for example, I could loot the body for its blood or marrow or something. Then I can make a serum that does X, whether it be gain knowledge of an ability score of that race, or gain advantages on attacks on that race once per battle, or have a pre generated table that you roll for an effect for against or to do with that race. You can only have one decoction brewed/prepared at a time and two at later levels. A lot of it is RP fluff of course, but mechanically its just ‘once you kill a creature, you gain X against that named species (goblin, not goblinoid or humanoid). You can only have this benefit against one named creature type at a time.’
... am I getting too fantastical in my love of RP, my love of my Alchemist and my love of The Witcher series? Is there something there or am I missing the plausible/balanced mark?
Hjalmar Gunderson, Vuman Alchemist Plague Doctor in a HB Campaign, Post Netherese Invasion Cormyr (lvl20 retired)
Godfrey, Autognome Butler in Ghosts of Saltmarsh into Spelljammer
Grímr Skeggisson, Goliath Rune Knight in Rime of the Frostmaiden
DM of two HB campaigns set in the same world.
I think that could be fun, a little bit difficult to balance if you’d want different bonuses for the type of creature you slay but I could see it being tied into the Arcane weapon spell?
You spend 1 minute working with a corpse of a slain creature, for the next 8 hours Arcane Weapon deals d10 damage to that creature type. (Effectively +2 Damage per attack to that creature type)
Although I think it fits better in a separate subclass even more focused on Witcher or Enchanting. I think the Alchemist solution is a larger combat potion list that you could throw to recreate the 2017 effect (and so could any one just Alchemist better. I think that is an obvious topic they should be working on for the release book containing Artificer)
Here is another topic to discuss, most of the time I hear balance concerns if a class has Too much offered for a 2-3 or 5 level multiclass, but looking over Artificer I am afraid there might be too little?
Paladin has Martial weapons, Medium Armor, Lay on Hands, Divine Sense, Smites. Ranger has Martial weapons, Medium Armor, Exploration, Fighting style, and Hunters mark.
While Artificer has ? Difficulty multiclassing as is Int, Medium Armor, Tool Expertise, Arcane Weapon, Changable Cantrips, Magic Items, Subclass pets, Arcane Armament.
Tool Expertise, more of a ribbon not a huge draw.
On level Changable Cantrips, interesting but multiclassing spellcasters usually already have a lot.
Free magic items, only super applicable in low magic settings, you’ll only really have 2 items, limited to +1s and small wonderous items.
Subclass pets, the only reason I could see to take this class, if your primary class is Abismal at getting something to do with Bonus Action.
Arcane Armament, Extra Attack usually only important if already invested in something else low level.
Proposed Solutions: Do you think the below is too much, too many classes would be interested in multiclassing?
1. If my proposed change to bring Right Cantrip for the job to level 1 would go through classes could take 1 level dip for effectively an improved version of magic initiate.
2. Maybe Make some Infusions scale on total level rather than class level? It feels like any class take takes a 2 level dip around level 12 would not actually look to use the Infusions.
3. As others have suggested Arcane Armament related to Cantrips rather than Extra Attack, but then maybe it would be nerfed to level 6/7 similar to bladesinger or Eldritch Knight.
Yes yes, that fits much better. I knew what I want it to look like but didn’t know how to get there. I was definitely going for a tinkering on the fly with genetics sorta deal and this idea fits that even better than mine. Like making an antidote for a monster. Haha
A different subclass for it could be cool too, and I thought of that too, but this class is already tied to the Alchemists Supplies tool and thought they’d maybe spread all the subclasses around to all the supplies/tools. I’m all up for different themed subclasses!
Hjalmar Gunderson, Vuman Alchemist Plague Doctor in a HB Campaign, Post Netherese Invasion Cormyr (lvl20 retired)
Godfrey, Autognome Butler in Ghosts of Saltmarsh into Spelljammer
Grímr Skeggisson, Goliath Rune Knight in Rime of the Frostmaiden
DM of two HB campaigns set in the same world.
I know it is not the same theming that you are looking for but it could be connected to Leatherworking for a Ranger type, Jewelcrafting for a Skyrim soulstone type, or some type of Enchanting tools which would be new.
Think the Alchemist theme is just too broad but we don't want to give them all the toys, would get too complex. I see a mandate to keep Artificer at about the same complexity as core classes, which the previous 2017 edition failed at. I look forward to their attempts at Mystic revamp (maybe paladin like level 20 subclass features and Invocation like Disciplines but can scaling and using psi points)
PS. I got a homebrew for a Summoner as 15th class to be added to 5e based on Wisdom Warlock.
Jewelcrafting is also nice when dealing with Eberron Dragonshards.
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
On the topic of Jeweler's Tools, what subclass and flavour would fit the current artificer with Jeweler's Tools? I'm just imagining "I AM A MAGIC JEWELER"
"I MAKE BRACELET WANDS AND SPARKLY TURRETS/ JEWELED HOMUNCULI AND NECKLACE POTIONS"
"I CAST CURE WOUNDS BY MAKING A MAGIC GLOWY RING"
"I CAST GLYPH OF WARDING BY EMBEDDING GEMS IN THE FLOOR"
i like linguistics and, well, d&d, obviously. this bio hadn't been updated for 3 years so i figured i'd do that.
I would go with half Morrowind/Skyrim Style Enchanter where I catch souls of monsters in Gems, and half Magic item user ie the Rings and Necklaces I own have spells stored and I use my tinker tools to refresh them on long rest.
i know it is not strict “the magic emanates from the tool” but I think it would be fine by theming.
If you are looking for inspiration, start by looking into jeweler’s techniques on YouTube. It’s a robust craft and while you would be a jeweler I’d suggest to finding one aesthetic and rolling with it. That said:
”Hands adorned with rings and a string of earrings around her left lobe, some might mistake her for a hawker of jewelry, however there is more to this story. A trained wizard might glimpse the arrangement of arcane symbols expertly woven amidst her many earrings, or the feel the wax and wane of many magics as they hold her gemmed fingers.”
”As her companion calls for aid she raises a file, filled with ornate gold filigree. The jade dragon wrapped around her finger seems to come to life as it’s eyes open and glow red. A small mote of vibrant green energy is released from her ring and quickly travels along the filigree of her file, finally releasing as it’s power is unleashed onto her ailing compatriot. His wounds stitch together in an instant and he is replenished for battle!”
”Noticing the threat, her seemingly mundane hummingbird brooch jumps from its resting place and takes to the air, instantly becoming a battle companion against the encroaching enemies.”
etc.
What is an Artificer? An internet search via Google or Bing, defines an Artificer as “a skilled craftsman or inventor”. Unfortunately, after over a month of thoroughly reviewing the revised Artificer, it is severally lacking in the definition of an Artificer.
I personally think the rebuild of the Artificer is garbage. While there are a few aspects of the revised Artificer that I like, the rest in my opinion makes it overpowered and just plain sloppy. It's like they tried to make the Artificer into another spellcaster with some aspect that deal with magical items.
1. The "Magical Tinkering" feature makes me think of a merchant having static displays to attract customers.
I am having some difficulty imagining how the "Magical Tinkering" items will be useful to the Artificer (I guess I lack an imagination). I would rather have the “Magic Item Analysis” feature from the first Artificer build than Magical Tinkering. As the Magic Item Analysis is actually useful.
2. Requiring tools to be spellcasting focuses I just can't see it (even after the explanation). I mean, the class gets Thieves' Tools!!! I can see maybe using them to cast Arcane Lock, Knock (a spell the Artificer doesn’t even get) or even Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum, but the way it is explain you will need proficiency with multiple tools or an infused item in order to cast the different spells the Artificer has access too.
3. Infuse Item feature create magical items that are purely prototypes, so if the character dies the items become useless. And, you can infuse a new item at the end of a long rest. How is this not overpowered or broken?
Just like Wonderous Invention from the previous Artificer build, the Infuse Item feature limits what the player can create. I am not saying a player should be able to build what they want, but the DM should have a say in what they can and can’t build. I mean an Artificer is skilled craftsman or inventor!!! There should be a way for the Artificer class to have an advantage at building permanent magical items and not just infusing magic into items to make temporary magical items.
The “Replicate Magic Item” Infuse Item feature gives the players 49 different items they can temporarily make. Little over 75% of those magic items are uncommon magical items (items you can create at 2 and 12 levels). You don’t get access to rare magical items until 16 level. At least the Wonderous Invention feature of the first build gave you access to rare magical items at 10 level.
Let’s not forget that with this feature, the Artificer has access to a +1 “Returning Weapon” and +1 armor or shield at 2 level. SECOND LEVEL!!!!
4. Arcane Armament limits how you can attack. You must use a magic weapon as one of the two attacks. What if you don't have a magical weapon?
5. I can understand that an Artificer needs to be flexible, but the ability to change cantrips after a short or long rest, in my opinion is just overpowered. A character that is supposed to design and build magical items who has the ability to change out a Cantrip and a Wizard who spends years studying the Arcane Arts can’t, just makes this feature broken.
6. The Spell-Storing feature in the rebuild went the wrong way. The version in the previous build was good but it needed to be tweaked in a way that made it useful. Storing a spell in an item that only lasts for an hour isn't useful.
7. I like Soul of the Artificer; this feature has not changed since the previous build.
8. THEY BROKE THE ALCHEMIST!!!! The main subclass that I enjoyed the most from the previous version has nothing to do with Alchemy in the rebuild.
"An Alchemist is an expert at combining exotic reagents to produce mystical effects. Among artificers, members of this subclass are the greatest healers, as well as the ones most adept at wielding dangerous chemicals."
"At 6th level, your command of magical chemicals has become masterful, enhancing the healing and damage you create through them. When you “cast a spell” using your alchemist’s supplies as the spellcasting focus, you gain a bonus to one roll of the spell."
9. I think the Artillerist subclass is a halfway decent subclass. The Crafting portion of the Tools of the Trade is pointless. The description of the Artillerist states...
"An Artillerist specializes in using magic to create explosions and defensive positions, as well as magic-infused sidearms—especially wands— that can be used on the battlefield. Artillerists were valued by all the armies of the Last War."
10. Finally, we come to the new spell “Arcane Weapon”. I actually like this spell and I think it would be useful to other spellcasters and not just the Artificer.
Overall, the Artificer rebuild/revisit completely guts the foundation of what an Artificer is; someone who is a craftsman, an inventor. The only thing in the entire Artificer class that has to do with building permanent magic items, is in the Artillerist subclass. The "Crafting" portion of the "Tools of the Trade" feature allows the Artillerist to craft wands at a quarter of the normal time and at half the cost. Beyond that, there is nothing about crafting permanent magical items.
Please understand that the above information is just my opinion. The original Artificer build that was provided in 2017 wasn’t perfect (no class or subclass is), but this rebuild/revisited took the Artificer in the wrong direction (my opinion), made it overpowered (my opinion) and just plain sloppy (my opinion).
To top things off, it has been over 30 days and a survey to offer feedback still has yet to be posted to the D&D website.
Artificer with a Thieve’s Tools aesthetic:
”A belt and bandolier of locks are strewn about the traveler’s body. Various devices to keep contained the power of the raw magical powers behind them.”
”As the beast approaches the traveler deftly plays with a #4 trigger-pick twirling it betwixt his fingers. Finally, the foe is within range and the playful flicking of the pick stops as it plunged into a cast iron lock on his chest. The latch unclicks and a ray of nauseating sickness erupts from what lies behind the lock, striking the beast, and sending it into fits of retching.”
”His friend recently slain lay before him, the battle ceased. He places a fine lock of silver and gold upon his chest and begins to open it. As the final tumbler is moved into place a wave of energy springs forth and enters the chest of his fallen comrade, Torval. With a lurch his back arches and a shuddering breath enters his body. His friend revived, the traveler places his tools back in their places along his belt.”
———
No matter the tool kit, it is only a gap in imagination that will ever stop you from being able to play this class.
EDIT: The Artificer, definitions be damned, is not *just* a craftsman and inventor. They are a magical-craftsman and magical-inventor in D&D. The magical aspect being pretty damn important. No, we didn’t get an entire list of new spells, thus unlocking a balance change across all previous classes... we got one new spell and the ability to flavor our actions in thousands of different ways. We all know the three facets to D&D: exploration, role play, and combat. Some classes are geared more to one than any other. Artificers are a ‘role play’ wheelhouse.
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Moderator"Overall, the Artificer rebuild/revisit completely guts the foundation of what an Artificer is; someone who is a craftsman, an inventor."
The magic of artifice sidebar explains that your spellcasting is done via invention, which is why you need tools to cast spells. In this way, your somatic and material components are geared more toward using an item you created during spell preparation to create the spell effect. This is also why artificers can change their cantrips on a long rest and later a short rest. This method of spellcasting can be however you imagine the effect being created from an item.
I imagine Artillerists are like this.
This also goes toward your comment of "The Alchemist isn't about spells!!!! They are about creating alchemical formulas that aid them and others!!!"
Correct! And if you cast your spells with alchemist supplies as the focus, you can flavor your spells as an effect that is produced from a concoction you have made and takes on a certain effect when the right verbal components are used. In this way, you can still play the alchemist the way the old one was built, but you have to use your imagination.
Alchemists are like this.
"The only thing in the entire Artificer class that has to do with building permanent magic items, is in the Artillerist subclass."
The creation of permanent magic items already exists within the rules in Xanathar's Guide to Everything. Each of the subclasses makes you better at crafting a particular type of magic item than non Artificers.
"To top things off, it has been over 30 days and a survey to offer feedback still has yet to be posted to the D&D website."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9gbHCQHWk0&t=541
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I'll be honest, the ability to flavor your spells isn't worth anything to me as a class feature because as far as I'm concerned that's something that could be done with just about any casting class anyway; I saw a cleric being played as casting their spells through a holy symbol redesigned as a divinely infused mechanical contraption, there was a warlock who flavored their spells as coming from a mechanical gauntlet given to them by their patron, a guy played his Ranger spells as either coming from his own wilderness training or from special cartidges/ammunition for his crossbow rather than than having anything to do with nature magic, and I can very easily see a wizard flavoring their wand as being a device similar to a Sonic Screwdriver which they use to cast their spells. Making that a class feature just doesn't bring anything new to the table so far as I can see.
Yes, this is kind of the reason behind my decoction idea a few comments up in this thread. I wanted a class feature that does some actual alchemy, some actual artificery as a class ability.
Hjalmar Gunderson, Vuman Alchemist Plague Doctor in a HB Campaign, Post Netherese Invasion Cormyr (lvl20 retired)
Godfrey, Autognome Butler in Ghosts of Saltmarsh into Spelljammer
Grímr Skeggisson, Goliath Rune Knight in Rime of the Frostmaiden
DM of two HB campaigns set in the same world.