At low level, this subclass is definitely over powered. The guiding bolt is going to be something that ramps up the challenge rating, and the other players will suffer for it, or the party won't be challenged, that is the real problem with broken classes, it doesn't hurt anyone but the party.
Even at low levels this is not broken unless you are contending that the entire wild shape function is broken. Starry Form trades HP and Mobility options of beast form for Damage and Healing options. Neither one is any better or worse- just different. Since Starry Form is highly useful in combat and only lasts 10 minutes vs beast forms much longer durations, it is going to force the Druid to be more judicious in using wild shape out of combat for exploration and utility purposes. You are trading combat ability for support/utility.
Subclass balance is based around all three pillars of the game. It seems problematic to arbitrarily decide that 2/3 of the intended game experience is un-important and then complain about class balance.
Yeah, the game isn't just designed around combat, and subclasses aren't just designed around combat either. The fact that it is very good at certain things for a limited amount of time doesn't make them OP. Sure, you can be good at concentration spells, but you don't get to shoot lasers at people. Sure, you can shoot lasers at people, but then you don't get to be better with the other 2 options. It's not OP.
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I was trying to make a goblin hack oracle who pretends to read futures for entertainment but actually has magical talent, just not divination. None of the druid subclasses really felt right for that flavor, except for the Stars druid, so I jumped on it. My co-players laughed at me when I realized I'd actually be able to tell the future...
Ive just started a campain and also took one level of life cleric and stary form with life cleric and goodberry etc.. makes the most powerfull healer combo i can think off .
You only get the chalice bonus healing when you cast a healing spell, not when a creature eats the berries. And since on the cast, no healing is done, it is questionable whether you would get the bonus on the cast.
Eating a berry is certainly not casting a spell -- so you shouldn't get to give someone else a d8 of healing when you eat one. Whether casting a spell that produces berries that later can heal hit points counts as casting a spell that heals hitpoints is up for some debate (I'm not even sure which side I'd fall on) but you only get that 1d8 to someone else when you cast a spell, according to the wording of the feature.
Yeah the debate came up that when the hit points that are healed is irrlevent if it is the spell that heals it like muti round heals like pre errata healing sprit .
But yeah the berry thing would only get the d8 on the casting.
Archer. A constellation of an archer appears on you. You gain a bonus action that you can use to make a ranged spell attack, hurling a luminous arrow that targets a creature you can see within 60 feet of you. On a hit, the attack deals radiant damage equal to 1d8 + your Wisdom modifier.
Bonus Action: A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
Does the Archer form's bonus action ranged spell attack count as casting a spell, in terms of the no casting two spell in one turn if one is a bonus action rule?
Or in other words, can you use the bonus action ranged spell attack and cast a non cantrip spell as your action in one turn?
In 5e, a "spell" is an effect caused by one of the things listed in the spells sections of the sourcebooks, usually using spell slots or through an item. Anything else, such as spell like effects are not considered spells for that term. Spell attacks from special features would fall into the anything else category.
I'm not sure on where innate casting effects land on "is it a spell" question.
The other check: could a Bard select the particular feature as part of their magical secrets? If "yes" it is a spell, if "no" then it is not a spell. In fact, in recent UA materials, they've been trying out using some class features that are fueled by spell slots -- one advantage to this rather than just giving it as a spell is that Bards cannot choose class features as magical secrets.
Innate Spellcasting still counts as spellcasting. When a race grants you a Cantrip and a spell you can cast 1ce/LR, that is innate Spellcasting for PCs.
Does the Archer Starry Form give a SECOND Bonus Action, in addition to the normal Bonus Action per turn? I.E. Use an Action to assume Archer Form, Bonus Action to fire a "luminous arrow" and then regular Bonus Action to, say, Healing Word? Or any other such Bonus Action Ability. Or is the intent that the Archer Form give an additional way to use the regular Bonus Action?
Does the Archer Starry Form give a SECOND Bonus Action, in addition to the normal Bonus Action per turn? I.E. Use an Action to assume Archer Form, Bonus Action to fire a "luminous arrow" and then regular Bonus Action to, say, Healing Word? Or any other such Bonus Action Ability. Or is the intent that the Archer Form give an additional way to use the regular Bonus Action?
There is only ever one bonus action per character per turn. Anything they says “as a bonus action” is only ever giving more ways to use that one bonus action. Same goes for Actions and Reactions.
Does the Archer Starry Form give a SECOND Bonus Action, in addition to the normal Bonus Action per turn? I.E. Use an Action to assume Archer Form, Bonus Action to fire a "luminous arrow" and then regular Bonus Action to, say, Healing Word? Or any other such Bonus Action Ability. Or is the intent that the Archer Form give an additional way to use the regular Bonus Action?
There is only ever one bonus action per character per turn. Anything they says “as a bonus action” is only ever giving more ways to use that one bonus action. Same goes for Actions and Reactions.
At low level, this subclass is definitely over powered. The guiding bolt is going to be something that ramps up the challenge rating, and the other players will suffer for it, or the party won't be challenged, that is the real problem with broken classes, it doesn't hurt anyone but the party.
Even at low levels this is not broken unless you are contending that the entire wild shape function is broken. Starry Form trades HP and Mobility options of beast form for Damage and Healing options. Neither one is any better or worse- just different. Since Starry Form is highly useful in combat and only lasts 10 minutes vs beast forms much longer durations, it is going to force the Druid to be more judicious in using wild shape out of combat for exploration and utility purposes. You are trading combat ability for support/utility.
So they we agree in a combat centric campaign that is op
Not really, Wild Shape for Moon Druids is much more OP than this, same for Wildfire druids.
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Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Subclass balance is based around all three pillars of the game. It seems problematic to arbitrarily decide that 2/3 of the intended game experience is un-important and then complain about class balance.
(Who are you referring to?)
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Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
So they we agree in a combat centric campaign that is op
Yeah, the game isn't just designed around combat, and subclasses aren't just designed around combat either. The fact that it is very good at certain things for a limited amount of time doesn't make them OP. Sure, you can be good at concentration spells, but you don't get to shoot lasers at people. Sure, you can shoot lasers at people, but then you don't get to be better with the other 2 options. It's not OP.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I was trying to make a goblin hack oracle who pretends to read futures for entertainment but actually has magical talent, just not divination. None of the druid subclasses really felt right for that flavor, except for the Stars druid, so I jumped on it. My co-players laughed at me when I realized I'd actually be able to tell the future...
I know its late .. to the discussion.
Ive just started a campain and also took one level of life cleric and stary form with life cleric and goodberry etc.. makes the most powerfull healer combo i can think off .
You only get the chalice bonus healing when you cast a healing spell, not when a creature eats the berries. And since on the cast, no healing is done, it is questionable whether you would get the bonus on the cast.
Ok our gm ruled diffrently . One roll at casting of the d8 and thsts added to each berry...
We did that way twice and decided it was way to op.
But challace and life cleric on other spells still works great
Eating a berry is certainly not casting a spell -- so you shouldn't get to give someone else a d8 of healing when you eat one. Whether casting a spell that produces berries that later can heal hit points counts as casting a spell that heals hitpoints is up for some debate (I'm not even sure which side I'd fall on) but you only get that 1d8 to someone else when you cast a spell, according to the wording of the feature.
Yeah the debate came up that when the hit points that are healed is irrlevent if it is the spell that heals it like muti round heals like pre errata healing sprit .
But yeah the berry thing would only get the d8 on the casting.
Archer. A constellation of an archer appears on you. You gain a bonus action that you can use to make a ranged spell attack, hurling a luminous arrow that targets a creature you can see within 60 feet of you. On a hit, the attack deals radiant damage equal to 1d8 + your Wisdom modifier.
Bonus Action: A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
Does the Archer form's bonus action ranged spell attack count as casting a spell, in terms of the no casting two spell in one turn if one is a bonus action rule?
Or in other words, can you use the bonus action ranged spell attack and cast a non cantrip spell as your action in one turn?
In 5e, a "spell" is an effect caused by one of the things listed in the spells sections of the sourcebooks, usually using spell slots or through an item. Anything else, such as spell like effects are not considered spells for that term. Spell attacks from special features would fall into the anything else category.
I'm not sure on where innate casting effects land on "is it a spell" question.
The other check: could a Bard select the particular feature as part of their magical secrets? If "yes" it is a spell, if "no" then it is not a spell. In fact, in recent UA materials, they've been trying out using some class features that are fueled by spell slots -- one advantage to this rather than just giving it as a spell is that Bards cannot choose class features as magical secrets.
Wolf,
Innate Spellcasting still counts as spellcasting. When a race grants you a Cantrip and a spell you can cast 1ce/LR, that is innate Spellcasting for PCs.
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Does the Archer Starry Form give a SECOND Bonus Action, in addition to the normal Bonus Action per turn? I.E. Use an Action to assume Archer Form, Bonus Action to fire a "luminous arrow" and then regular Bonus Action to, say, Healing Word? Or any other such Bonus Action Ability. Or is the intent that the Archer Form give an additional way to use the regular Bonus Action?
There is only ever one bonus action per character per turn. Anything they says “as a bonus action” is only ever giving more ways to use that one bonus action. Same goes for Actions and Reactions.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/combat#YourTurn
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That's what I thought, just wanted to make sure I was reading this ability correctly. Thanks.