Im glad its working out for you and that your DM is flexible with things like Arcane Archer. Based on the title, it sounds like you are trying to show that Ranger is not weak on its own; however, the build you use has almost half its level in a multiclass with Fighter rather than being a pure ranger. It is also worth noting for your damage calculation that you cannot use Favored Foe while Hunters Mark is active (as both require concentration). So if you used Favored Foe as part of your first attack, you would lose Hunters Mark for your second attack and action surge attack
On another note, how are you getting two attacks before action surging? Given that you have 4 levels in Ranger and 3 in Fighter you should not have Extra Attack yet.
Monks and artificers have fewer OP options than some of the subclass options of other classes. Ranger has Gloomstalker, Beast Master, Horzon Walker and Swarmkeeper which arguably all, according to various opinions, have decent strengths.
You're trying to prove that Rangers aren't weak, by creating a half Fighter, half Ranger build?
I mean, I'm not opposed to the idea that they can be strong, but that you feel that you have to replace half their levels with another class to make them strong is kind of saying something in and of itself.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Ranger's fine, power-wise. Its issues are with a lot of early qualities being tied to exploration and exploration being poorly implemented. A DM can put in the effort to salvage that, but by that logic there could be no ranger class at all and that wouldn't mean anything - the DM can fix it with homebrew, right?
The weakest class in the game is the monk. And even that one's ok.
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You should be able to use Favored Foe and Hunters Mark. Favored Foe reads, "until you lose your concentration (as if you were concentrating on a spell)" therefore it is not a spell. However, if you were to lose concentration you would lose both Hunters Mark and Favored Foe.
edit:
Oh balls - I guess unofficially there is supposed to be a paragraph someplace that says, you may only concentrate on one [X] at a time, whether thats a spell, ability, object, person, etc.
You should be able to use Favored Foe and Hunters Mark. Favored Foe reads, "until you lose your concentration (as if you were concentrating on a spell)" therefore it is not a spell. However, if you were to lose concentration you would lose both Hunters Mark and Favored Foe.
Pretty sure RAW you cannot concentrate on two things at once, regardless of if they are both spells or not. While using favored foe, you are considered concentrating as if concentrating on a spell, so anything that would end a spells concentration early would also end Favored Foe early
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You should be able to use Favored Foe and Hunters Mark. Favored Foe reads, "until you lose your concentration (as if you were concentrating on a spell)" therefore it is not a spell. However, if you were to lose concentration you would lose both Hunters Mark and Favored Foe.
Pretty sure RAW you cannot concentrate on two things at once, regardless of if they are both spells or not. While using favored foe, you are considered concentrating as if concentrating on a spell, so anything that would end a spells concentration early would also end Favored Foe early
“Pretty sure” nothing, that is absolutely RAW. You are 100% correct, a PC cannot concentrate on two things at once.
The only reason I dipped into Arcane Archer is because Ranged Rangers are absolutely terrible at being able to do Magical damage to creatures until later level, and when you are in Barovia with a DM that wants to murder you, and your party is abbbbbbbsolute trash at finding any kind of magical anything - it become bothersome. 5 werewolves? and a party of level 5s without any casters or magical damage? Takes FOR,EV,ER.
The only reason I dipped into Arcane Archer is because Ranged Rangers are absolutely terrible at being able to do Magical damage to creatures until later level, and when you are in Barovia with a DM that wants to murder you, and your party is abbbbbbbsolute trash at finding any kind of magical anything - it become bothersome. 5 werewolves? and a party of level 5s without any casters or magical damage? Takes FOR,EV,ER.
The damage from hunter’s mark is damage from a magical source since hunter’s mark is a spell. So is the damage from any other Ranger spell, like hail of thorns and ensnaring strike. Rangers have access to damage from magical sources as early as 2nd level. Aside from the 2 Arcane Shot options per short rest, Arcane Archers don’t get guaranteed magical attacks until 7th level.
You should be able to use Favored Foe and Hunters Mark. Favored Foe reads, "until you lose your concentration (as if you were concentrating on a spell)" therefore it is not a spell. However, if you were to lose concentration you would lose both Hunters Mark and Favored Foe.
edit:
Oh balls - I guess unofficially there is supposed to be a paragraph someplace that says, you may only concentrate on one [X] at a time, whether thats a spell, ability, object, person, etc.
Nothing unofficial about it: "When you hit a creature with an attack roll, you can call on your mystical bond with nature to mark the target as your favored enemy for 1 minute or until you lose your concentration (as if you were concentrating on a spell)." Favored Foe's concentration works the same as if you were concentrating on a spell for the purpose of losing it. That means failing a concentration check or casting something else that requires concentration.
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You should be able to use Favored Foe and Hunters Mark. Favored Foe reads, "until you lose your concentration (as if you were concentrating on a spell)" therefore it is not a spell. However, if you were to lose concentration you would lose both Hunters Mark and Favored Foe.
edit:
Oh balls - I guess unofficially there is supposed to be a paragraph someplace that says, you may only concentrate on one [X] at a time, whether thats a spell, ability, object, person, etc.
Some spells require you to maintain concentration in order to keep their magic active. If you lose concentration, such a spell ends.
If a spell must be maintained with concentration, that fact appears in its Duration entry, and the spell specifies how long you can concentrate on it. You can end concentration at any time (no action required).
Normal activity, such as moving and attacking, doesn't interfere with concentration. The following factors can break concentration:
Casting another spell that requires concentration.You lose concentration on a spell if you cast another spell that requires concentration. You can't concentrate on two spells at once.
Taking damage. Whenever you take damage while you are concentrating on a spell, you must make a Constitution saving throw to maintain your concentration. The DC equals 10 or half the damage you take, whichever number is higher. If you take damage from multiple sources, such as an arrow and a dragon's breath, you make a separate saving throw for each source of damage.
Being incapacitated or killed. You lose concentration on a spell if you are incapacitated or if you die.
The DM might also decide that certain environmental phenomena, such as a wave crashing over you while you're on a storm-tossed ship, require you to succeed on a DC 10 Constitution saving throw to maintain concentration on a spell.
1st-level ranger feature, which replaces the Favored Enemy feature and works with the Foe Slayer feature
When you hit a creature with an attack roll, you can call on your mystical bond with nature to mark the target as your favored enemy for 1 minute or until you lose your concentration (as if you were concentrating on a spell).
The first time on each of your turns that you hit the favored enemy and deal damage to it, including when you mark it, you can increase that damage by 1d4.
You can use this feature to mark a favored enemy a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, and you regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.
This feature’s extra damage increases when you reach certain levels in this class: to 1d6 at 6th level and to 1d8 at 14th level.
If I were gonna hunt DPR as a Ranger, I would go Ranger (Hunter) X/Rogue (Inquisitive/Swashbuckler) 3 with a Rapier and the Piercer, Dual Wielder, and Sentinel feats and try to position to best get the enemy to provoke OAs from me all day long. Colossus Slayer, Sneak Attack, and Piercer all say “per turn,” so they’re effective on attacks on other creatures’ turns too. With Hunter’s Mark that’s 1d8+Dex+1d6 (Rapier & Hunter’s Mark) +1d8+2d6 (Colossus Slayer & Sneak Attack) for a total of 2d8+3d6+Dex (re-rolling the lowest die from Piercer) on your turn, and with an OA that’s 4d8+6d6+(2×Dex)&(2×Re-Rolls)/Round. If you Dual Wielder (I prefer Whip for the mixed reach) that goes up by another 1d4+Dex+1d6, and at 5th level as a Ranger that goes up by another 1d8+Dex+1d6 to a whopping potential:
1d4+5d8+8d6+(4×Dex)&(2×Re-Rolls)/Round, round after round.
And that’s all 100% AL legal RAW. No “if”s, “and”s, or “but”s.
1) As has already been mentioned by others you can't use favored foe and hunter's mark at the same time since both require concentration.
2) You haven't unlocked multiattack yet.
3) On average, the damage from sharpshooter will be lower than the +10 because of the lower probability of hitting. It's a great damage boost at lower AC's, but decreases as you approach 20, as does the average damage.
First bolt: 1d6 hunter's mark, 1d10 xbow, 3 dex modifier, 2d6 bursting arrow, 10 sharpshooter. Total: 3,5+5,5+3+2*3,5+10=26. Against an AC of 10: 26*0.65 (Probablility of hitting)=16.9, respectable but not record shattering.
The biggest problem with hunters mark here is how the DM reads the damage - I've seen DMs treat all the damage as magical, none of the damage as magical and only the hunters mark damage as magical. Now it’s still extra damage so even at half damage that is something. Another option would have been to go ranger all the way and use the (Tasha’s added spell list) spell magic weapon. It’s concentration so you can’t use hunters mark but all the damage you do is now magic damage and, as a L7 ranger you get 2 attacks/attack action and 3 uses of the spell if you loose concentration. You also get the extra damage bonus on 1 hit each round if you take one of the subclasses (Other than PHB beastmaster) you have ways getting the extra damage on one hit each round.
The biggest problem with hunters mark here is how the DM reads the damage - I've seen DMs treat all the damage as magical, none of the damage as magical and only the hunters mark damage as magical.
Normally we assume for the sake of discussion that the DM is following the RAW, which means the damage from Hunter's Mark is magical but the weapon's is not unless the weapon (or ammunition) is magical.
Agreed, which is why I prefaced things the way I did. It should be that way but reality is it often isn’t. That said the idea of going full ranger with something like the horizon walker and the L3 planar warrior ability rather than multiclassing is also a solid way of getting good ranger damage.
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So I said, “hold my beer” and I’ve built Ireena as the following for our Curae of a Strahd Campaign:
Variant Human
Ranger 4 (Monster Hunter)
Fighter 3 (Arcane Archer)
+ Silvered Heavy Crossbow
+ Sharpshooter Feat
+ Crossbow Expert Feat
Max DMG turn =
Previous turn, Bonus Action (Hunters Mark): +1d6 dmg
————————
Action (Attack): H.Xbow, (+8 to hit, sharpshooter -5 to hit =) +3 to hit, 1d10+3+10 p.dmg
Special (Favored Foe): +1d4 dmg
Bonus Action (Slayer’s Prey): +1d6 dmg
Special (Bursting Arrow): +2d6 force dmg
Heavy Xbow Expert: (no reload needed)
Second Attack: H.Xbow, +8, 1d10+3
Hunters Mark: +1d6
⚡️ Action Surge ⚡️
Heavy Xbow Expert: (no reload needed)
Action (Attack): H.Xbow, +8, 1d10+3
Hunters Mark: +1d6
Summery:
First Arrow Dmg = 1d10+3+10, +1d6, +1d4, +1d6, +2d6
Second Arrow Dmg = 1d10+3, +1d6
Third Arrow Dmg = 1d10+3, +1d6
Sidenote: DM said I could use a Tahsa’s style swap to sub “bows” for “xbows” in Arcane Archer, but I could not do both.
Im glad its working out for you and that your DM is flexible with things like Arcane Archer. Based on the title, it sounds like you are trying to show that Ranger is not weak on its own; however, the build you use has almost half its level in a multiclass with Fighter rather than being a pure ranger. It is also worth noting for your damage calculation that you cannot use Favored Foe while Hunters Mark is active (as both require concentration). So if you used Favored Foe as part of your first attack, you would lose Hunters Mark for your second attack and action surge attack
On another note, how are you getting two attacks before action surging? Given that you have 4 levels in Ranger and 3 in Fighter you should not have Extra Attack yet.
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Monks and artificers have fewer OP options than some of the subclass options of other classes. Ranger has Gloomstalker, Beast Master, Horzon Walker and Swarmkeeper which arguably all, according to various opinions, have decent strengths.
You're trying to prove that Rangers aren't weak, by creating a half Fighter, half Ranger build?
I mean, I'm not opposed to the idea that they can be strong, but that you feel that you have to replace half their levels with another class to make them strong is kind of saying something in and of itself.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Ranger's fine, power-wise. Its issues are with a lot of early qualities being tied to exploration and exploration being poorly implemented. A DM can put in the effort to salvage that, but by that logic there could be no ranger class at all and that wouldn't mean anything - the DM can fix it with homebrew, right?
The weakest class in the game is the monk. And even that one's ok.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
So Sharpshooter and Crossbow Expert working as intended. What was the game plan if the DM did not go with feats are an option?
You should be able to use Favored Foe and Hunters Mark. Favored Foe reads, "until you lose your concentration (as if you were concentrating on a spell)" therefore it is not a spell. However, if you were to lose concentration you would lose both Hunters Mark and Favored Foe.
edit:
Oh balls - I guess unofficially there is supposed to be a paragraph someplace that says, you may only concentrate on one [X] at a time, whether thats a spell, ability, object, person, etc.
Pretty sure RAW you cannot concentrate on two things at once, regardless of if they are both spells or not. While using favored foe, you are considered concentrating as if concentrating on a spell, so anything that would end a spells concentration early would also end Favored Foe early
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“Pretty sure” nothing, that is absolutely RAW. You are 100% correct, a PC cannot concentrate on two things at once.
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The only reason I dipped into Arcane Archer is because Ranged Rangers are absolutely terrible at being able to do Magical damage to creatures until later level, and when you are in Barovia with a DM that wants to murder you, and your party is abbbbbbbsolute trash at finding any kind of magical anything - it become bothersome. 5 werewolves? and a party of level 5s without any casters or magical damage? Takes FOR,EV,ER.
can you take your beer back?
The damage from hunter’s mark is damage from a magical source since hunter’s mark is a spell. So is the damage from any other Ranger spell, like hail of thorns and ensnaring strike. Rangers have access to damage from magical sources as early as 2nd level. Aside from the 2 Arcane Shot options per short rest, Arcane Archers don’t get guaranteed magical attacks until 7th level.
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Nothing unofficial about it: "When you hit a creature with an attack roll, you can call on your mystical bond with nature to mark the target as your favored enemy for 1 minute or until you lose your concentration (as if you were concentrating on a spell)." Favored Foe's concentration works the same as if you were concentrating on a spell for the purpose of losing it. That means failing a concentration check or casting something else that requires concentration.
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Officially, here’s the paragraph:
And this one:
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If I were gonna hunt DPR as a Ranger, I would go Ranger (Hunter) X/Rogue (Inquisitive/Swashbuckler) 3 with a Rapier and the Piercer, Dual Wielder, and Sentinel feats and try to position to best get the enemy to provoke OAs from me all day long. Colossus Slayer, Sneak Attack, and Piercer all say “per turn,” so they’re effective on attacks on other creatures’ turns too. With Hunter’s Mark that’s 1d8+Dex+1d6 (Rapier & Hunter’s Mark) +1d8+2d6 (Colossus Slayer & Sneak Attack) for a total of 2d8+3d6+Dex (re-rolling the lowest die from Piercer) on your turn, and with an OA that’s 4d8+6d6+(2×Dex)&(2×Re-Rolls)/Round. If you Dual Wielder (I prefer Whip for the mixed reach) that goes up by another 1d4+Dex+1d6, and at 5th level as a Ranger that goes up by another 1d8+Dex+1d6 to a whopping potential:
1d4+5d8+8d6+(4×Dex)&(2×Re-Rolls)/Round, round after round.
And that’s all 100% AL legal RAW. No “if”s, “and”s, or “but”s.
PS- Does that mean I get the beer?
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There's a few wonky things going on here.
1) As has already been mentioned by others you can't use favored foe and hunter's mark at the same time since both require concentration.
2) You haven't unlocked multiattack yet.
3) On average, the damage from sharpshooter will be lower than the +10 because of the lower probability of hitting. It's a great damage boost at lower AC's, but decreases as you approach 20, as does the average damage.
First bolt: 1d6 hunter's mark, 1d10 xbow, 3 dex modifier, 2d6 bursting arrow, 10 sharpshooter. Total: 3,5+5,5+3+2*3,5+10=26. Against an AC of 10: 26*0.65 (Probablility of hitting)=16.9, respectable but not record shattering.
The biggest problem with hunters mark here is how the DM reads the damage - I've seen DMs treat all the damage as magical, none of the damage as magical and only the hunters mark damage as magical. Now it’s still extra damage so even at half damage that is something. Another option would have been to go ranger all the way and use the (Tasha’s added spell list) spell magic weapon. It’s concentration so you can’t use hunters mark but all the damage you do is now magic damage and, as a L7 ranger you get 2 attacks/attack action and 3 uses of the spell if you loose concentration. You also get the extra damage bonus on 1 hit each round if you take one of the subclasses (Other than PHB beastmaster) you have ways getting the extra damage on one hit each round.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
A silvered heavy crossbow? Why are you clubbing werewolves in melee with your crossbow?
Normally we assume for the sake of discussion that the DM is following the RAW, which means the damage from Hunter's Mark is magical but the weapon's is not unless the weapon (or ammunition) is magical.
Agreed, which is why I prefaced things the way I did. It should be that way but reality is it often isn’t. That said the idea of going full ranger with something like the horizon walker and the L3 planar warrior ability rather than multiclassing is also a solid way of getting good ranger damage.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.